Tactically, what's the best Force Weapon?

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**Phyrekzhogos**

So I'm kitbashing together a generic lil Librarian and it occurred to me that I've pretty much always used a Force Sword in the past, but that I didn't actually "have" to.

The thing is, I see Librarian models using axes or staves alot on GW's website, but I don't actually know if one is really better than another.
To give some perspective, I'll typically either be running my Libby (we'll call him Tim) in either my Death Company, a Sanguinary Guard unit, or rarely with an Honor Guard (command squad), so he'll mostly be actively buffing melee more than shooty units.

In that regard, would a staff or an axe be more useful than a sword? I could really use ya'lls opinions. Thanks in advance

**raiden**

Staff is the best TAC.

**FakeBritishPerson**

I prefer the sword, if I'm fighting MEQ units, it cuts through their armor without losing my initiative, but it lacks the power of the staff, and the armor piercing power of the axe, I don't think any are bad, but the sword has fewer downsides IMO

**Vector Strike**

Staff, because all you need is a failed save. +2S at Initiative is quite the buff.

**Sir Arun**

Force Axe for me. Usually force weapons are wielded by Librarians in the meta, who are only I4 instead of I5, so they strike after most SM HQs. And if those SM HQs have a powerfist, then first of all you wouldnt be that bad off with your power axe anyways since you both strike at the same time, and secondly in this configuration the SM HQ would usually be toting 2+ armor so that makes the Force Axe even more necessary.

**SRSFACE**

I feel the same about them as I do about power weapons: Staff (maul) or Axe, depending. Never a sword. Force Swords in general are garbage because you're statistically more likely to cause an important wound with a Staff/Maul than sword. Thing in a 2+ Save? Better off with higher strength. Enemy has higher than 4 toughness? More likely to actually wound. Enemy is in 4+ save is all? Force Staff has that AP anyway. Thing has lower than 4 toughness? You're instant death without needing to trigger force. Thing has an invulnerable save? Better off with the higher strength to cause more wounds.

I really wish power swords brought something to the table, because they aren't worth the points, ever. Axes beat Sv2+, Mauls lay down the hurt, swords are maybe slightly better against exactly Sv3+ units that are equal toughness to your strength.

**Sir Arun**

SRSFACE wrote:
swords are maybe slightly better against exactly Sv3+ units that are equal toughness to your strength.

the thing is, the meta is full of this, making the sword viable.

**AnomanderRake**

Axe lets you kill a wider range of targets, if there's no challenge the Librarian is hiding further back in your squad so he has ablative Space Marines to tank stuff that happens before I1, and S5/AP2 means you can actually threaten MCs that would otherwise be laughing themselves silly because your three attacks don't give you the volume to overcome their saves, even at S6 from a stave.

**Rippy**

Force Axe. Great on plague marines as they have low initiative anyway. Requires most tactical ability due to lowering if initiative though.

**SharkoutofWata**

Rippy wrote:
Force Axe. Great on plague marines as they have low initiative anyway. Requires most tactical ability due to lowering if initiative though.

FORCE weapon. The ones on Librarians and Sorcerers for Instant Death. So Plague Marines can't have it.

I've seen the argument on the Staff and I really do agree with it, but everything in me screams to take Swords. Swords just look better than the wizard with his staff, and unless I'm against a Captain or Chapter Master, who I tend to avoid and just shoot with everything I have instead of meet them in fair combat, I'm against 3+ Armor and that's gone at Initiative. Yes, there are exceptions and that is why I concede that a Staff is a really good choice against HQs, but TAC that sword is going to chop up MEQ with ease, and those Chaos buggers always want the glory, so my Librarian will meet that with a good Force Blade in their gut and call it a day.

**raiden**

The. Best is the force lance :p

**BrianDavion**

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Force Axe. Great on plague marines as they have low initiative anyway. Requires most tactical ability due to lowering if initiative though.

FORCE weapon. The ones on Librarians and Sorcerers for Instant Death. So Plague Marines can't have it.
.

by "on plague marines" he means USED on plague marines

**Rippy**

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Force Axe. Great on plague marines as they have low initiative anyway. Requires most tactical ability due to lowering if initiative though.

FORCE weapon. The ones on Librarians and Sorcerers for Instant Death. So Plague Marines can't have it.

I've seen the argument on the Staff and I really do agree with it, but everything in me screams to take Swords. Swords just look better than the wizard with his staff, and unless I'm against a Captain or Chapter Master, who I tend to avoid and just shoot with everything I have instead of meet them in fair combat, I'm against 3+ Armor and that's gone at Initiative. Yes, there are exceptions and that is why I concede that a Staff is a really good choice against HQs, but TAC that sword is going to chop up MEQ with ease, and those Chaos buggers always want the glory, so my Librarian will meet that with a good Force Blade in their gut and call it a day.

OH woops thanks, am tired. I still stand by force axe though, just ignore the PM part lol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Force Axe. Great on plague marines as they have low initiative anyway. Requires most tactical ability due to lowering if initiative though.

FORCE weapon. The ones on Librarians and Sorcerers for Instant Death. So Plague Marines can't have it.
.

by "on plague marines" he means USED on plague marines

No I did mean PMs take them, but was thinking power, as am tired!

**Phyrekzhogos**

Thanks for the replies guys. Gave me much to think about. I'm not a huge fan of the way the Staves look, but I may go with that as I have at least one other axe in each of the units he may go in with. Since I'm kitbashing anyways, I think I can make a stave that may look alot better by just adding a blade to the end of it ala Dragon Age 2 style and call it a day. Best compromise I can think of since I hate giving up the BA charge Initiative bonus.

Again, thanks for the help deciding

**Vespid**

Staffs
Pros:
+2 Strength
Strike at Initiative
Concussive
Better then a power sword against anything but a 3+ save and then its only slightly worse.
Instant death toughness 3 models
Cons:
Only AP 4

Force Sword:
Pro's:
AP 3
Strike at Initiate
Cons:
Basically a normal close combat weapon against 2+ armour which the staff and axe are better against.
If the model with a 3+ has a 4++ or better invurable save the staff is better.
If fighting a model with a 4+ or worse save the maul is better.

Force Axe:
Pros:
+1 Strength
AP 2
Cons:
Strike at Initative 1.
You have no invurability save and only 2 wounds you probably won't survive striking last.
Against 4+ or worse the staff is better.

**jeffersonian000**

The Nemesis Daemon Hammer is the best Force weapon, although the Nemesis Force Falchions are excellent, too.

SJ

**Vankraken**

For a libby I think the axe is the better force weapon. A libby should never be in a challenge and its low chance of success to hope for a MC or multi wound infantry model to fail a 2+ save with the sword/staff's weaker AP.

**Slayer-Fan123**

The main thing you want to capitalize on is the Force power. The more armor you can pierce, the more that power is effective. Hell, an Axe allows an easier ID of a Wraithknight than a Stave.

Ergo, you go with the Axe.

**Sir Arun**

As a sidenote, are Stormshields worth it on Libbys or would you rather give them a combi-weapon or just a pistol?

**Sgt_Smudge**

If you want the Libby to live, then storm shields. If not, leave it at home. My Libby has a force axe and storm shield, just so he can live to strike with it.

**Freman Bloodglaive**

In terminator armour I prefer the axe. In power armour I prefer the staff.