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 Kirasu wrote:
Yay more strength d for normal 40k. It's like gw has just given up.

Yup. I've just broken down and accepted it. I hate super-heavies and D weapons, but they're pushing them to the forefront. Now I just have to wait for my armies to get updated (good luck Orks).

 pretre wrote:

BloodGrin wrote:
Has anyone else chimed in on this other than "Bird in the Trees"?

Not that I've seen.

BoLS confirmed the redirects for the 4 products (Codex, Datacards, 2 Knights)

 Talys wrote:

 pretre wrote:

BloodGrin wrote:
Has anyone else chimed in on this other than "Bird in the Trees"?

Not that I've seen.

BoLS confirmed the redirects for the 4 products (Codex, Datacards, 2 Knights)

Please never ever use the words "BoLS confirmed" to me in a sentence with a straight face.
Please. No hate on you, please understand.
BoLS leeches off of the work of the work and information of other people, and the information of people in forums like this.
BoLS information right now is coming from their source Birds in the Trees, and again more power to them I am just wondering why Darmok, Lords of War or any of the others has not had a word on this yet.

I have confirmed webpage redirects to all 4 things.
Of course, before redirects were patched.

 BloodGrin wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 pretre wrote:

BloodGrin wrote:
Has anyone else chimed in on this other than "Bird in the Trees"?

Not that I've seen.

BoLS confirmed the redirects for the 4 products (Codex, Datacards, 2 Knights)

Please never ever use the words "BoLS confirmed" to me in a sentence with a straight face.
Please. No hate on you, please understand.
BoLS leeches off of the work of the work and information of other people, and the information of people in forums like this.
BoLS information right now is coming from their source Birds in the Trees, and again more power to them I am just wondering why Darmok, Lords of War or any of the others has not had a word on this yet.

Sure thing.. I actually made a typo (or mental fart). I actually meant B&C... Bolter & Chainsword And great on Verviedi for verifying it

The "details" rumors though, as you say, were from their source, Bird in the Trees.

B&C isn't much better or closer to the truth than anyone else. They just like to make it look like they are (despite being nearly on the third page in google search results).

Anyway. Bring on more knights, GeeDub! I wanted to build a proper star (five mechs), and with two more unique models... two questoris, two warden/crusaders and one cerastus it just might be possible.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but what are the "other" cards in the datacards going to be used for ?

They don't have a Psychic disipline.

Imperial Knight special orders ? Commands from the Machine God ? Datasheets ?

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but what are the "other" cards in the datacards going to be used for ?

They don't have a Psychic disipline.

Imperial Knight special orders ? Commands from the Machine God ? Datasheets ?

It's a safe bet. Skitarii didn't come with psychic powers, instead it was the doctrine cards.

Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

It'd take more than one at -1 on the table unless it's already missing some HPs since the best one shot can do is 4 HPs...but yeah, the Eldar codex has completely wrecked the game as far as anything with an armor value and S6 spam on a relatively cheap platform means MCs are gonna hurt too.

*sigh*

The arms race is back. After a series of fairly well-balanced books, we get a slightly OP Necron codex and now the Eldar abomination.

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

If the rumors are true, the new Knights will have Void Shield Generator, so no, 1 hit of anything including a perfect 6 on the Destroyer table won't kill it

Of course, this is GW. When SM codex comes out, Librarians will be able to give units an invulnerable invulnerable save, that will counter things that say that models don't get an invulnerable save. And then the Tau will get a Special to bypass it.

 agnosto wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

It'd take more than one at -1 on the table unless it's already missing some HPs since the best one shot can do is 4 HPs...but yeah, the Eldar codex has completely wrecked the game as far as anything with an armor value and S6 spam on a relatively cheap platform means MCs are gonna hurt too.

*sigh*

The arms race is back. After a series of fairly well-balanced books, we get a slightly OP Necron codex and now the Eldar abomination.

With the d flamer, you could roll a 3 for the hp damage, and then a destroy result for the pen, and roll another 3 on d3, resulting in 6 hull points from a single d scythe.

Isnt that only a 1.79% chance of actually occurring though?

 Shigematsu wrote:
Isnt that only a 1.79% chance of actually occurring though?

I didn't say it was likely, just responding to a guy who said that they could only do 4 hp in one shot.

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but what are the "other" cards in the datacards going to be used for ?

They don't have a Psychic disipline.

Imperial Knight special orders ? Commands from the Machine God ? Datasheets ?

They might add selectable, as well as more, Knight ranks and have them as cards.

I wonder if the void shields will replace the ion shield?

niv-mizzet wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

It'd take more than one at -1 on the table unless it's already missing some HPs since the best one shot can do is 4 HPs...but yeah, the Eldar codex has completely wrecked the game as far as anything with an armor value and S6 spam on a relatively cheap platform means MCs are gonna hurt too.

*sigh*

The arms race is back. After a series of fairly well-balanced books, we get a slightly OP Necron codex and now the Eldar abomination.

With the d flamer, you could roll a 3 for the hp damage, and then a destroy result for the pen, and roll another 3 on d3, resulting in 6 hull points from a single d scythe.

D weapons don't work that way. You roll on the chart and that's all you get. A maximum of d3 HP are lost instead of 1 so I was wrong about max 4. It's in the BRB. D weapons aren't nearly as strong as they used to be.

But SHs do. If the penetrating hit from the D weapon (or any weapon in general) causes an Explodes! result, D3 additional hullpoints are lost instead of it instantly exploding.

 Talys wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

If the rumors are true, the new Knights will have Void Shield Generator, so no, 1 hit of anything including a perfect 6 on the Destroyer table won't kill it

Of course, this is GW. When SM codex comes out, Librarians will be able to give units an invulnerable invulnerable save, that will counter things that say that models don't get an invulnerable save. And then the Tau will get a Special to bypass it.

This...I am completely terrified of the Space Marine Codex.
Grav guns and pistols everywhere, re-rolls on everything, chapter tactics here there and everywhere.
Here an invul, there an invul...
Special Marines will live up to it.
This that we have received with Necrons and Eldar...these are the candy and flowers, the soft whispers and sweet nothings before we get completely wrecked when Games Workshop shows you who their real favorite is.

And then you have Chaos Space Marines..... LOL!

No literally.... lol... they're awful

Shouldn't have strayed from the Emperor's light.

It's okay, just wait for CODEX: CHAOS KNIGHTS !!

Then Chaos will have Imperial Knights with Daemonic Blessings.

Ion Shield ? I get a 5++ Daemonic Save and 3+ cover save thanks to Shrouded, from my Mark of Nurgle....

 agnosto wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

It'd take more than one at -1 on the table unless it's already missing some HPs since the best one shot can do is 4 HPs...but yeah, the Eldar codex has completely wrecked the game as far as anything with an armor value and S6 spam on a relatively cheap platform means MCs are gonna hurt too.

*sigh*

The arms race is back. After a series of fairly well-balanced books, we get a slightly OP Necron codex and now the Eldar abomination.

With the d flamer, you could roll a 3 for the hp damage, and then a destroy result for the pen, and roll another 3 on d3, resulting in 6 hull points from a single d scythe.

D weapons don't work that way. You roll on the chart and that's all you get. A maximum of d3 HP are lost instead of 1 so I was wrong about max 4. It's in the BRB. D weapons aren't nearly as strong as they used to be.

No. You get an automatic penetrating hit. The only difference on the D chart is that instead of 1 hull point for glance/penning, you get d3. Nowhere in the rules does it say to ignore the rest of the rules for a penetrating hit. IE you still roll on the vehicle damage chart to find out what the penning hit did. (And on a super heavy, the only result that matters is a destroyed result of course.)

It would be kind of strange if a str D ap1 weapon wasn't able to blow up an ork trukk, while even a heavy bolter could.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Doesn't the new Eldar codex kind of make Knights obsolete now? All it really takes is a D shot even at a -1 to the D table to basically wipe one out, doesnt it?

It'd take more than one at -1 on the table unless it's already missing some HPs since the best one shot can do is 4 HPs...but yeah, the Eldar codex has completely wrecked the game as far as anything with an armor value and S6 spam on a relatively cheap platform means MCs are gonna hurt too.

*sigh*

The arms race is back. After a series of fairly well-balanced books, we get a slightly OP Necron codex and now the Eldar abomination.

With the d flamer, you could roll a 3 for the hp damage, and then a destroy result for the pen, and roll another 3 on d3, resulting in 6 hull points from a single d scythe.

D weapons don't work that way. You roll on the chart and that's all you get. A maximum of d3 HP are lost instead of 1 so I was wrong about max 4. It's in the BRB. D weapons aren't nearly as strong as they used to be.

No. You get an automatic penetrating hit. The only difference on the D chart is that instead of 1 hull point for glance/penning, you get d3. Nowhere in the rules does it say to ignore the rest of the rules for a penetrating hit. IE you still roll on the vehicle damage chart to find out what the penning hit did. (And on a super heavy, the only result that matters is a destroyed result of course.)

It would be kind of strange if a str D ap1 weapon wasn't able to blow up an ork trukk, while even a heavy bolter could.

Correct, it says very clearly " The model suffers a penetrating hit that blah blah blah"

niv-mizzet wrote:

No. You get an automatic penetrating hit. The only difference on the D chart is that instead of 1 hull point for glance/penning, you get d3. Nowhere in the rules does it say to ignore the rest of the rules for a penetrating hit. IE you still roll on the vehicle damage chart to find out what the penning hit did. (And on a super heavy, the only result that matters is a destroyed result of course.)

It would be kind of strange if a str D ap1 weapon wasn't able to blow up an ork trukk, while even a heavy bolter could.

Is there something missing from the rulebook then? All my rulebook says is:

If a weapon has a D instead of a Stength value in its profile, it is a Destroyer weapon. To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration. Most Destroyer Weapons have AP1 or AP2, so armour saves are not typically allowed. Cover saves and invulnerable saves can be taken against hits from a Destroyer weapon as normal, unless a Devastating Hit or Deathblow result is rolled. For the purposes of determining if a Destroyer hit has the Instant Death special rule, assume it has Strength 10. Multiple Wounds/Hull Points inflicted by a Destroyer hit do not carry over to other models in the unit (any excess are lost).

That's it. I don't see permission to roll on the vehicle damage chart in addition to the D chart or even that it counts as a penetrating hit. That's the reason why a 1 on the D chart is a no harm result, it doesn't make much sense to have 2 results from the same attack.

A bit off topic but it would help to know if I and my group have been playing it wrong because the rules are, oddly enough, pretty clear to me anyway.


Edit:

I see, it's in the results themselves. "The model suffers a penetrating hit"; I just assumed that was the total result not permission to roll on yet another chart.

I do only play this game once every 3-4 months so, be gentle here.

Edit 2:

Now I'm really confused. The wording is the penetrating hit causes d3 instead of 1 HP. So if you roll 1 one on the pen chart, does that mean you don't get the d3?


Sorry, this is way off-topic.

 agnosto wrote:


Now I'm really confused. The wording is the penetrating hit causes d3 instead of 1 HP. So if you roll 1 one on the pen chart, does that mean you don't get the d3?


Sorry, this is way off-topic.

Normal weapon- glancing hit does 1 hp. penetrating hit does 1 hp plus a roll on the damage chart.;
Destroyer- 1 does nothing. 2-5 does d3 hp plus a roll on the damage chart. 6 does 6+d6 hp and a roll on the damage chart

 agnosto wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

No. You get an automatic penetrating hit. The only difference on the D chart is that instead of 1 hull point for glance/penning, you get d3. Nowhere in the rules does it say to ignore the rest of the rules for a penetrating hit. IE you still roll on the vehicle damage chart to find out what the penning hit did. (And on a super heavy, the only result that matters is a destroyed result of course.)

It would be kind of strange if a str D ap1 weapon wasn't able to blow up an ork trukk, while even a heavy bolter could.

Is there something missing from the rulebook then? All my rulebook says is:

If a weapon has a D instead of a Stength value in its profile, it is a Destroyer weapon. To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration. Most Destroyer Weapons have AP1 or AP2, so armour saves are not typically allowed. Cover saves and invulnerable saves can be taken against hits from a Destroyer weapon as normal, unless a Devastating Hit or Deathblow result is rolled. For the purposes of determining if a Destroyer hit has the Instant Death special rule, assume it has Strength 10. Multiple Wounds/Hull Points inflicted by a Destroyer hit do not carry over to other models in the unit (any excess are lost).

That's it. I don't see permission to roll on the vehicle damage chart in addition to the D chart or even that it counts as a penetrating hit. That's the reason why a 1 on the D chart is a no harm result, it doesn't make much sense to have 2 results from the same attack.

A bit off topic but it would help to know if I and my group have been playing it wrong because the rules are, oddly enough, pretty clear to me anyway.


Edit:

I see, it's in the results themselves. "The model suffers a penetrating hit"; I just assumed that was the total result not permission to roll on yet another chart.

I do only play this game once every 3-4 months so, be gentle here.

Edit 2:

Now I'm really confused. The wording is the penetrating hit causes d3 instead of 1 HP. So if you roll 1 one on the pen chart, does that mean you don't get the d3?


Sorry, this is way off-topic.

A penetrating hit always does 1 hull point plus the result of the damage roll (crew shaken, weapon destroyed, whatever)....In the case of a D weapon you resove the pentrating hit, and also lose the D3 hull points, maybe just 1, maybe 3.
The hull points have nothing to do with the penetrating hit.
Edit: or as explained above.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Normal weapon- glancing hit does 1 hp. penetrating hit does 1 hp plus a roll on the damage chart.;
Destroyer- 1 does nothing. 2-5 does d3 hp plus a roll on the damage chart. 6 does 6+d6 hp and a roll on the damage chart

I think I'm going to have this tattooed on my forearm... or forehead... maybe both.

Some odd rumours out there on BoLS, etc.. . I think it is only an upgrade sprue with a few new weapons (including a big powerfist) for the same old Knight, I am afraid. The Razorback to last years Rhino, if you like.

On the upside, I believe it'll build three new Knight variants, not two, as well as new options for the Paladin and Errant.

Any thoughts on if it comes as simply the sprue, somewhat counter to recent years, or it'll be a different box with the sprue added into the existing kit?