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Loads of ectoplasm?

You need a lot. 4+ to wound. 5+inv or cover 5+ fnp.. 6 wounds...

Anyone else think that the hellbrute murderpack could work?

Not really. Slow, low damage output and the WK will tear them apart.

Maybe with invisibility support , but even then how are you going to get the charge?

Well, you don't just have to charge. 10 twin linked lascannons are also a possibility.and if you decked them out completely for shooting, you could have 10 twin linked lascannon shots and 10 missile launchers.

And I don't know the WS of the WK, but couldn't Power Scourges be helpful in melee?

If you connect then scourges are excellent.

I dunno , 5 with las is like 625 before you start. And still probably won't drop a WK quickly enough.

If I math hammered correctly, the 10 TL LC's will deal a bit more than 2.5 wounds a round (after FNP). Combined with the 10 ML shots which come in at close to 1.5 wounds a round, that's 4 wounds in one round (once again, after FNP). I know it's very pricey, but i think it could work.

And with just the TL LC's, they deal ~5.8 wounds before saves are taken. And then you stare intently at your opponent asking, "do you feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?"

:-) it certainly is an army. Belakor to make it durable... That's 1k right there.

The One thing about the hellbrute formation... Can it tak legacies? Could you have different legacies in the unit?,
I reckon there are some combos to be had there.
I don't think there is a preferred enemy eldar one Iirc

Yes they could take legacies.
I don't think it's a good idea to go that route...but it would look awesome lol.

Give the leader fourth quadrant rebellion and pretend its a helcult on steroids. And a Ferrum dread with lord of the long war as your warlord XD. Add some decimators with storm laser spam for bikes and voila.


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NOBODY will expect a csm dread list XD

If memory serves, each dread has to take a pen/glance to get the crazed result (let's face it, you're going to choose fire twice), so it'll be more like 7 shots on a good day

Ironically, you'd have a much easier time of it if you could get into combat with it even without the crazed table.

The only issue is that you're running ~2x the cost of a wraithknight in AV12 walkers, so unless you can figure out a way for 5 'brutes to take on 2 WK's, then you're kinda hosed. But then, if you're playing CSM, you already knew that.

 Drasius wrote:
If memory serves, each dread has to take a pen/glance to get the crazed result (let's face it, you're going to choose fire twice), so it'll be more like 7 shots on a good day

Ironically, you'd have a much easier time of it if you could get into combat with it even without the crazed table.

The only issue is that you're running ~2x the cost of a wraithknight in AV12 walkers, so unless you can figure out a way for 5 'brutes to take on 2 WK's, then you're kinda hosed. But then, if you're playing CSM, you already knew that.

Good point, I had thought if one had a crazed marker, they all benefited from it. Just checked, it only works for the one's with a crazed marker :(

On a different topic. What do you guys think of a fire raptor for anti biker duty. It could engage three units simultaneously right?

Seems pretty nice to me, even with the stock heavy bolters.


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Also totally not an excuse to get one.

yeah that sounds pretty good to be fair, tho the helldrake is probably the better flyer for killing just jetbikes.

You need an excuse to get one? I just need the money... been top of my FW list since it came out

I've almost gotten it a few times, but then got distracted by my wallet punching me in the face. I could get it...but it wouldn't be a purchase made lightly. Not to mention there is so much stuff I want....so I usually wait until chirstmas or some other event where I can sneak by my wallet unnoticed lol.


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Though in the case of the sicaran and berzerker kit I managed to convince myself that their too awesome not to have XD.


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My group doesn't use any fliers, except maybe to test them every once in a blue moon.

I'm pretty positive on the murderpack with invisibility. Aim for mellee. Remember, you don't need to rush all that hard - he's gona come for you himself when you're at the midboard camping on objectives.

3 Squads of Havocs with 4 lascannons apiece and one squad having a sorcerer w/ balestar of mannon attached to at least get twin linked will deal ~5.93 wounds before saves

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannons will deal 4.

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannon and having a sorcerer with the balestar of man on attached to one squad for the same reason as the havocs will get you 4.44 wounds before saves.

Would pretty much require belakor though, who could already take the WK on his own. not to mention that this is almost 1000 points already


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 King Pariah wrote:
3 Squads of Havocs with 4 lascannons apiece and one squad having a sorcerer w/ balestar of mannon attached to at least get twin linked will deal ~5.93 wounds before saves

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannons will deal 4.

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannon and having a sorcerer with the balestar of man on attached to one squad for the same reason as the havocs will get you 4.44 wounds before saves.

Wouldn't 3 vindicator laser destroyers not be the better option?

I'm not familiar with forgeworld stuff as my local meta doesn't exactly smile upon forgeworld I wish they did....

But if it's a better option, then great!

Sad times.
they cost only 10 points more than a regular vindicator for 3 twinlinked lascannon shots at AP1 with ordnance. Pretty nasty.

Hmmm, turns out they're worse than that havoc + sorcerer combo I listed in amount of wounds dealt dealing 5.33 wounds before saves. But not a bad choice at all.

Cheaper though since you don't need the sorcerer.

 King Pariah wrote:
3 Squads of Havocs with 4 lascannons apiece and one squad having a sorcerer w/ balestar of mannon attached to at least get twin linked will deal ~5.93 wounds before saves

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannons will deal 4.

3 squads of 3 Obliterators firing lascannon and having a sorcerer with the balestar of man on attached to one squad for the same reason as the havocs will get you 4.44 wounds before saves.

5.93 looks impressive, until you take your 5+ invul and 5+ feel no pain.
That drops it to 2.63 wounds.
And it's 465 points of havocs (660 with guys to absorb losses) or ~702 points of tzeench oblits (you really want 4++) PLUS the cost of the Balestar of mannon.

The murderpack wouldn't get 10 lascannon shots.

ONLY the helbrutes that are raging that turn get the effect. You pick which rage they use - but only helbrutes with rage counters get the benefit, which means ones that got damaged but not destroyed in the previous turn. Since everything happens to the closest one, the enemy would have to nitpick you with multiple units from multiple parts of the board. Not likely to happen.

You said forgeworld was ok, right?

Traitor guard, IA 13. 110 points gets you 30 guys with WS 3 and krak grenades. Toss a dark apostle in there and they're fearless and reroll misses the first round of combat.

30 attacks, 15 hit, 22 hit after rerolls, that's 3 or so 6's. Fearless so you don't get run down.

After that it gets dicey, but you can keep those coming!

Oh and the whole squad could take 6 meltaguns for 60 points if you wanted. Use that to soften up if you're given the chance.

One turn of 3 wounds.. One of which will be saved... Then the stomps kill all the guardsmen...

But the real problem is, that WK are fast enough not to get suckered into tarpits , and the rest of the eldar army flays infantry effortlessly

Captyn_Bob wrote:
One turn of 3 wounds.. One of which will be saved... Then the stomps kill all the guardsmen...

But the real problem is, that WK are fast enough not to get suckered into tarpits , and the rest of the eldar army flays infantry effortlessly

This. Scatterbikes are killing ~90 boyz per turn. This infantry unit won't stand a chance.

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot we can do about bikes. Short of a baleflamer and maybe a blast master if you get lucky. Other than that all we can do is bury them in shots. Assaulting would be difficult even with our own bikes.

An infernal achilles would probably work once it's down to 2 hullpoints, but way to expensive and unreliable to "enable".
The sicaran could work, in the sense that it causes a bunch of wounds and can potentially flat out kill them.

I thought the question was how do you deal with wraith Knights, not how do you deal with wraith Knights and that many bikes.

No, the bikes will not down 90 boys per turn, because few people are ever going to take that nightmarish number of bikes with scatter lasers that everyone thinks they will. You're talking a ridiculous money expenditure, converting models they already have etc etc.

The traitors wouldn't all be killed by stomps. Anyone who says so hasn't played enough apoc. It starts out as a high number but it tapers off quickly once you remove casualties to force models to be spread out. And fearless means you're tying it up for a while.
Other options? Hell blades wound on 5's but 6's rend.

Daemon princes can use psychic shriek reliably to kill it off, as can sorcerers from within rhinos. Rhinos that hide behind landraiders or terrain work even better.

Slaanesh power "ecstatic seizures" makes it slap itself. It would be S10 though not D since it doesn't use its own weapons.

Baleflamer sounds good to me. Burning brand too

 Spellbound wrote:
I thought the question was how do you deal with wraith Knights, not how do you deal with wraith Knights and that many bikes.

No, the bikes will not down 90 boys per turn, because few people are ever going to take that nightmarish number of bikes with scatter lasers that everyone thinks they will. You're talking a ridiculous money expenditure, converting models they already have etc etc.

The traitors wouldn't all be killed by stomps. Anyone who says so hasn't played enough apoc. It starts out as a high number but it tapers off quickly once you remove casualties to force models to be spread out. And fearless means you're tying it up for a while.
Other options? Hell blades wound on 5's but 6's rend.

Daemon princes can use psychic shriek reliably to kill it off, as can sorcerers from within rhinos. Rhinos that hide behind landraiders or terrain work even better.

Slaanesh power "ecstatic seizures" makes it slap itself. It would be S10 though not D since it doesn't use its own weapons.

The seizure can be saved on it's 3+ save though no? that would make seizure pretty bad. The way it's worded seem to suggest it's a ranged attack with strength = model strength, not a melee attack.

Hmm, yea shriek is a bit unreliable (to me), but you're you can use it without the knight being able to do jack about it. So pretty nice indeed, and it doesn't stop you from engaging other stuff.
The main question was about the Knight yes, but in the meantime the bikes have come up too here and there.

You could shriek the knight and burning brand the bikes, that way he could do double duty lol.

Roknar wrote:
Unfortunately there's not a whole lot we can do about bikes.

I think that Tzeench powers can do a lot of damage to bikers and lil wraiths. I'm talking about a s8 ap1 beam.