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Just like their first time with the daemon summoning army was evidence of how broken that mechanic was going to be and ruled the meta right?

 Leth wrote:
Just like their first time with the daemon summoning army was evidence of how broken that mechanic was going to be and ruled the meta right?

It's not the first time any more, but whatever. Don't suppose you'd care to take a pop at answering the question? How, specifically, would you deal with such a force, without tailoring your list?

 bullyboy wrote:
all this wonderful stuff is givng me grand hopes for my DAs

Forget it. We'll get crapped on again for sure. Ten bucks says DA scouts are WS/BS 3!

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Just like their first time with the daemon summoning army was evidence of how broken that mechanic was going to be and ruled the meta right?

It's not the first time any more, but whatever. Don't suppose you'd care to take a pop at answering the question? How, specifically, would you deal with such a force, without tailoring your list?

The entire army dies to str6+ ap4, there is quite a lot of that in many armies via auto cannons and the like, most of the fire power is on non-durable platforms. Unless they were podding in a alpha strike army would have a pretty easy time I would think. Too situational I would have to say but having played he skitarii and mechanicus myself I could see my stern guard army I am working on doing quite well.

Also the complete lack of OS in the army as well as limited mobility and speed means that they are going to have some issues.

Until we see a game where both sides know what the army can do and play it well I can't say how broken or not it is. It looks powerful but like the battle company I feel it is too restrictive in points

 Leth wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Just like their first time with the daemon summoning army was evidence of how broken that mechanic was going to be and ruled the meta right?

It's not the first time any more, but whatever. Don't suppose you'd care to take a pop at answering the question? How, specifically, would you deal with such a force, without tailoring your list?

The entire army dies to str6+ ap4, there is quite a lot of that in many armies via auto cannons and the like, most of the fire power is on non-durable platforms. Unless they were podding in a alpha strike army would have a pretty easy time I would think. Too situational I would have to say but having played he skitarii and mechanicus myself I could see my stern guard army I am working on doing quite well.

That wasn't the question, the question was how to deal with an MSU-Razorspam Battle Company, apologies if I wasn't clear.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Just like their first time with the daemon summoning army was evidence of how broken that mechanic was going to be and ruled the meta right?

It's not the first time any more, but whatever. Don't suppose you'd care to take a pop at answering the question? How, specifically, would you deal with such a force, without tailoring your list?

The entire army dies to str6+ ap4, there is quite a lot of that in many armies via auto cannons and the like, most of the fire power is on non-durable platforms. Unless they were podding in a alpha strike army would have a pretty easy time I would think. Too situational I would have to say but having played he skitarii and mechanicus myself I could see my stern guard army I am working on doing quite well.

That wasn't the question, the question was how to deal with an MSU-Razorspam Battle Company, apologies if I wasn't clear.

I run a lot of assault so it's less of an issue for me lol, I would probably have to take advantage of the fact that they are not as mobile, nor do they do as much damage, try to go second and then Just focus on 2 or 3 objectives instead of the entire board and clear out what I can. If it's kill points I would just sit back and be thankful for the easy win.

I am actually looking into working a unit of vanguard into my army, they are pretty sweet, just take the first company formation and ally that in. That no disordered charge is huge for my army where I like to charge 3 or 4 units at a time

The best bet will be to dismount and destroy as many Razorbacks as possible, and clean up whatever bolter toting marines you can afterward.

but yeah, the key will be drawing better tactical cards or focusing on capturing 3 and denying him one.

So to confirm, giving VV dual lightning claws is only 2 meltabombs?

So someone double check my logic on this:

Strike force ultra requires a captain selection using terminator armor.

Chapter master is now just a stat/ability upgrade to captain, and thus doesn't change the actual unit selection. Thus still fulfilling the captain selection. (This part is debatable, but let's have some fun and assume that it's true.)

With the upgrade, the character will have orbital bombardment while being relentless. Assuming he is attached to a squad of terminators, this would be a "ranged weapon in the unit."
As long as the unit just arrived from deep strike, then this should fit all the criteria for an ordnance 2 bombardment.

Also as a sidenote, assault 2 heavy flamers in the squads!

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So to confirm, giving VV dual lightning claws is only 2 meltabombs?

Yep, only costs 2 melta bombs.

niv-mizzet wrote:
So someone double check my logic on this:

Strike force ultra requires a captain selection using terminator armor.

Chapter master is now just a stat/ability upgrade to captain, and thus doesn't change the actual unit selection. Thus still fulfilling the captain selection. (This part is debatable, but let's have some fun and assume that it's true.)

With the upgrade, the character will have orbital bombardment while being relentless. Assuming he is attached to a squad of terminators, this would be a "ranged weapon in the unit."
As long as the unit just arrived from deep strike, then this should fit all the criteria for an ordnance 2 bombardment.

Also as a sidenote, assault 2 heavy flamers in the squads!

Wrong. The Captain becomes a Chapter Master. It has a different stat line, thus is no longer a Captain. All of the options in the sheet refer to Captains or Chapter Masters as separate entities.

I'm not entirely sure that's true. While yes, he's now a Chapter Master he still uses the Captain dataslate, which is what Formations refer to.

I mean, RAI you probably can't upgrade is the but RAW maybe you can. Again, not entirely sure.

EDIT: Yeah pretty sure you can upgrade the Captain to a Chapter Master otherwise you wouldn't be able to have a generic Chapter Master in a Gladius Strike Force Detachment at all as every option refers to a Captain.

Yep you go by unit name not model name for formations

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
So someone double check my logic on this:

Strike force ultra requires a captain selection using terminator armor.

Chapter master is now just a stat/ability upgrade to captain, and thus doesn't change the actual unit selection. Thus still fulfilling the captain selection. (This part is debatable, but let's have some fun and assume that it's true.)

With the upgrade, the character will have orbital bombardment while being relentless. Assuming he is attached to a squad of terminators, this would be a "ranged weapon in the unit."
As long as the unit just arrived from deep strike, then this should fit all the criteria for an ordnance 2 bombardment.

Also as a sidenote, assault 2 heavy flamers in the squads!

Wrong. The Captain becomes a Chapter Master. It has a different stat line, thus is no longer a Captain. All of the options in the sheet refer to Captains or Chapter Masters as separate entities.

Eh I don't particularly care, but you haven't convinced me of that. I don't see a chapter master option in any formation anywhere. Just captains. I would have to see an official source to accept that the captain may not take a listed upgrade on his profile without any such restriction written.

Legally one could have a battleforged army using say, 1st company Strike Force with 5 units of terminators...and no HQ????

I could see it going either way. Doesn't really affect me since I use Pedro Kantor. Though I think it is pretty dumb that a generic Chapter Master can be part of a Battle Demi-Company, but a named one cannot.

General Hobbs wrote:


Legally one could have a battleforged army using say, 1st company Strike Force with 5 units of terminators...and no HQ????

Yes. Questions like this have literally been asked somewhere once every 2 minutes since 7h edition dropped.

Battle forged just means ALL your models are in detachments. Special detachments like fleshtearer's are detachments. Formations are also detachments. If you can fill the points you want with just formations, you can indeed have just them. You could take a dozen 10th company strike forces as your whole army for example.

niv-mizzet wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Legally one could have a battleforged army using say, 1st company Strike Force with 5 units of terminators...and no HQ????

Yes. Questions like this have literally been asked somewhere once every 2 minutes since 7h edition dropped.

Battle forged just means ALL your models are in detachments. Special detachments like fleshtearer's are detachments. Formations are also detachments. If you can fill the points you want with just formations, you can indeed have just them. You could take a dozen 10th company strike forces as your whole army for example.

Cool. I understand though some tournaments don't allow you to take multiples of the same formation????

General Hobbs wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Legally one could have a battleforged army using say, 1st company Strike Force with 5 units of terminators...and no HQ????

Yes. Questions like this have literally been asked somewhere once every 2 minutes since 7h edition dropped.

Battle forged just means ALL your models are in detachments. Special detachments like fleshtearer's are detachments. Formations are also detachments. If you can fill the points you want with just formations, you can indeed have just them. You could take a dozen 10th company strike forces as your whole army for example.

Cool. I understand though some tournaments don't allow you to take multiples of the same formation????

True. Not only do many restrict you from duplicates of the same detachment, but most limit you to 2 or 3 detachments total. Still plenty possible to run just a single formation or two and hit a full point army.

By straight up book rules though, you can go nuts on detachments and duplicates of detachments and still be battle forged.

General Hobbs wrote:
Cool. I understand though some tournaments don't allow you to take multiples of the same formation????

Oh, I bet this will change now that it benefits Marines.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
Cool. I understand though some tournaments don't allow you to take multiples of the same formation????

Oh, I bet this will change now that it benefits Marines.

In fairness, the largest single exception made at ITC was to allow multiple gc/superheavies ONLY for Imperial Knights

The whole "maximum number of detachments" thing has gone to pot ever since the Decurion, where there are detachments containing detachments/formations. The whole concept will need to be revisited in a more macro view, once most of the army books have gone to core-command-auxiliary.

The larger looming question in my mind is, come 8e, what will happen to CAD and AD. I think these will become more restrictive and receive fewer bonuses (or exist in some other form) while GW tries to push people towards the new detachment in a detachment force organization system.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I could see it going either way. Doesn't really affect me since I use Pedro Kantor. Though I think it is pretty dumb that a generic Chapter Master can be part of a Battle Demi-Company, but a named one cannot.

I'm pretty sure the Crimson Fists don't have much in the way of equipment, after the disaster on their home world.

On a further note, it feels like there may be more transfer sheets on the way? (See company banner bearer)

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I could see it going either way. Doesn't really affect me since I use Pedro Kantor. Though I think it is pretty dumb that a generic Chapter Master can be part of a Battle Demi-Company, but a named one cannot.

I'm pretty sure the Crimson Fists don't have much in the way of equipment, after the disaster on their home world.

It is also why their Chapter Master also functions as their First Company Captain. So it would actually make sense for him to be able to be used as a Captain in the Battle Demi-Company.

Now if there were only a way to add Shrike in to a 5 unit VV army from 1st Company Sf without the 2 Troops tax.

Does anyone know if there are plans to release more upgrade kits for more founding chapters? Any rumours going around? Would love to see some kits for Imperial Fists, Raven Guard etc.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So to confirm, giving VV dual lightning claws is only 2 meltabombs?

Yep, only costs 2 melta bombs.

This, this I love. Along with the RG shrouded/jump pack rules. Thanks for losing the scout, RG are NOT rhino rush marines.

News just in "GW sells more models than there are people on the Earth" haha nah, some interesting rules for running 3 of X- like the 3 raiders ignoring all results except for explode, yuck!

 whembly wrote:
MSU rhino/razorback parking lot spam is back.

It's like 5th edtion all over again, and vehicles is going to be en vogue again.

:shrug:

GW... you magnificant bastard. (obvious cash grab ploy)

It's almost like GW was expecting this, with gauss, Haywire, Scatter lasers, D-Weapons, and Heavy Grav cannons all being quite good at popping vehicles, especially lightly armored ones.

Hmm... another thought: I wonder how BT Righteous Zeal interacts with Helbretch's Sword of the High Marshals.

Righteous Zeal grants Rage if the unit suffers a single wound, and the Sword gives "a Charge bonus of D3 attacks instead of 1". Since Rage is worded similarly, do you choose which to use, or would one take precedence over the other? I'm guessing choose, but I'm unsure.



Sidenote: GW failing with Chronus's rules is still bugging the hell out of me. You make a Tank Commander who, RAW can't command his tank, though it still gets the benefits as if he was, and then when it's destroyed he teleports to it and disembarks from it... I don't expect much from GW but all they had to do was copy-paste his rules from the last dex...
If I hadn't seen the scans on 4chan I wouldn't have believed GW had screwed this up. Maybe that's my problem.

General Hobbs wrote:

Now if there were only a way to add Shrike in to a 5 unit VV army from 1st Company Sf without the 2 Troops tax.

Well, with Scouts being so much better, and fluffy for RG, that isn't much of a tax.