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Tigerius is he as awesome as they say he is?
Tigerius was able to "see into the Hive Mind" as is described in his personal fluff
Tigerius THINKS he has penetrated the Hive Mind, but is really being fooled into a false sense of security in being able to predict its movements.
Tigerius tried to pierce the Hive Mind, but has now been enslaved to it, and is now leading the Ultramarines to destruction without their knowing.
Other (explain)

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Made in us
Member of the Malleus






 Lammikkovalas wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


I'm not sure if you understand what irony really means.

Dark Angels are definitely a bunch of badasses and a respected legion. To me, their defining feature is all-consuming guilt and obsession... which is orders of magnitude more interesting than being SUPER AWSUM AND THE BESTEST.



Yep, space Catholics vs space Romans... but they are not comparable and there is nothing Ironic about liking the one chapter more than the others. I think by saying it is ironic you are lumping all space marines into one big group when there are a myriad of different flavores in the Power armored bag of skittles.

For instance, fluff wise i like the Ultramarines (not their mary sueness, but other aspects) where as i really don't like blood angels because I don't like the aesthetic or fluff... also i absolutely hate the space wolves. mainly because i play grey knights in 40k and Thousand sons in 30K... but liking one chapter and disliking another is not ironic...

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 raiden wrote:
I'll have no bad mouthing of our nipple armor good sir! Smurfs only wish their aristians could craft armor of the same caliber as ours!


Praetorian and Invictarii armor called.


The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.

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Strike Cruiser Vladislav Volkov

I would have to say yes, he is as awesome as the fluff says he is.

Though I have to admit I find that a little boring. It seems a little unfair that the Ultramarines have the smartest Chapter Master, the most powerful Chief Librarian, the gruffest Chaplain, the best tank commander, AND the greatest scout sergeant in the fluff.

   
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 j31c3n wrote:
I would have to say yes, he is as awesome as the fluff says he is.

Though I have to admit I find that a little boring. It seems a little unfair that the Ultramarines have the smartest Chapter Master, the most powerful Chief Librarian, the gruffest Chaplain, the best tank commander, AND the greatest scout sergeant in the fluff.


Tigerius isn't the strongest Librarian in the Imperium, not even close.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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 Wyzilla wrote:
 j31c3n wrote:
I would have to say yes, he is as awesome as the fluff says he is.

Though I have to admit I find that a little boring. It seems a little unfair that the Ultramarines have the smartest Chapter Master, the most powerful Chief Librarian, the gruffest Chaplain, the best tank commander, AND the greatest scout sergeant in the fluff.


Tigerius isn't the strongest Librarian in the Imperium, not even close.


The strongest have to be the Grey Knights, but outside of them who would be the strongest? Tiggy is a contender for sure and so is Loth. Ezekiel is just crazy and scares the gak out his own men, don't really see him as a psychic superstar even though he is ML 3 in the game.

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 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
 
   
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 Lammikkovalas wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 j31c3n wrote:
I would have to say yes, he is as awesome as the fluff says he is.

Though I have to admit I find that a little boring. It seems a little unfair that the Ultramarines have the smartest Chapter Master, the most powerful Chief Librarian, the gruffest Chaplain, the best tank commander, AND the greatest scout sergeant in the fluff.


Tigerius isn't the strongest Librarian in the Imperium, not even close.


The strongest have to be the Grey Knights, but outside of them who would be the strongest? Tiggy is a contender for sure and so is Loth. Ezekiel is just crazy and scares the gak out his own men, don't really see him as a psychic superstar even though he is ML 3 in the game.


Mesphiton. Draigo. Dak'ir snorting geneseed. Loth. Especially Mesphiton and Draigo.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
Made in fi
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 Wyzilla wrote:


Mesphiton. Draigo. Dak'ir snorting geneseed. Loth. Especially Mesphiton and Draigo.


Totally forgot about Mephiston, I'm still used to thinking of him as a MC primarily for some reason.

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 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
 
   
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Gargant Hunting

Out of those three, I'm going to have to say Draigo, Mephiston was really cool, conquering the rage and whatnot, and Dak'ir was also exceptional (loved that omnibus), but Draigo, being a grey knight, is already a potent psyker, and plus he's pretty much a substitute for primarchs being gone, but yet again he might have fallen to chaos (Slaneesh, if I recall correctly)

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Fully-charged Electropriest






It's quite funny how Draigo as we now know him is another of Ward's creations. Seriously, what's with this guy and all the superlatives? Not everyone has to be described as being the best and most powerful in their chosen field. It's lazy writing and makes the characters impossible to relate to.

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 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
 
   
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Hallowed Canoness





Between

Draigo is automatically disqualified from the list on accord of not actually being a Librarian.



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But, a grey knights grand master is a ML 2 psyker, and they roll powers like a librarian. So yea he would count because all a librarian, as far as table top goes, is a psyker user that is in a command capacity. Fluff wise any grey knight brother captain cloud go toe to toe with your rank and file librarians, and your grand masters are on par with most chief librarians in most chapters. SO draigo is as powerful as the named super librarians, just he is better at cc. so id argue he is in the running, despite being The primarch of the Mary sue legion.

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None of those other Librarians have ever had the distinction of knowing ALL the available psychic powers, or being the ONLY Librarian able to use 3 powers in a turn, or being the ONLY Librarian to ping the Hive Mind and not explode their own heads.

Grey Knights don't count towards any superlative contest since Ward chewed up their fluff and spat out garbled nonsense. Especially not Draigo. Draigo is stupid and so is his ugly mug. Eugh, that model. No.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 15:16:18


   
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Oklahoma City

I think you need to decide what you are looking at, the fluff or the rules.

Rules as written, then Mephiston is the best...stat wise.

But, I think that you are trying to ask about the fluff. In the fluff, considering everything that has been written, then you can argue that Tigurius is one of the strongest ever. He is also one of the most unique, in that he has the ability to see the future better than most Farseers. THAT is his biggest claim to fame in the fluff.

Tigurius, as a young boy, saw that he was destined to be an Ultramarine, and presented himself to the Chapter on his own. He passed a test, where all other candidates failed, because he had already seen the outcome. THEN he began his training.

Seeing into the future is not easy for Humanity. Ravenor even spent time with the Eldar trying to improve his ability, because he knew that it could help the Imperium. Most psykers in the Imperium can only use the Emperor's Tarot to get vague glimpses into the future. Tigurius can see the future as if he has already lived it.

He has amazing power besides this as well. Like, when he held off a deamon army, on his own, for days, without rest. Sure, he was burning his soul to do so, but he did it. And, everyone loved him for it.

He blasted a cabal of Chaos Sorcerers, by himself. Sure, he had to strain, but he did it.

He has touched the Hive Mind, and survived the contact.

He is no joke. He is one of the best in the history of the Imperium.

My personal favorite, is when he goes into the Temple of Correction when he begins to feel weary by his visions and duties. He sits there, alone, and meditates on the future. After some time, he looks at the face of his Primarch, and smiles...

The dude is a total power house. It shouldn't make any difference if he is an Ultramarine.

I can still remember when a box of 30 Space Marines was $30.00. Now THAT'S old school! In fact, I started playing in the Rogue Trader days...yes, I am that old. Played Warhammer Fantasy for years before Rogue Trader even came out...

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 Iron_Captain wrote:
commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
But he isnt as awesome as Sevrin Loth
Sevrin Loth didnt know he had Psychic Powers until he went into training with his sparring partner AND SHATTERED EVERY BONE WITHOUT TOUCHING THEM
Then the Red Scorpions were like odamn.jpg and trained him in psychic dicipline
He is the Chief Librarian of the Red Scorpions and during the Badab war,he single handedly brought the dead chapter masters body out of a fortress thing filled with heretics
Then he was asked who should be the next chapter master (of which he chose Carab Culln)

Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If fully buffed he gets standard-
7A,S7,T7,I7,AP6 (AP2 if you forfiet I7)
Plus 2+/2++

Also, Sevring Loth has a 100% more awesome model than Tigurius. Tigurius looks fugly.
GW should remake the Tigurius model to look like this awesome artwork:
Spoiler:


Yep. That pic of Tigurius is really cool.

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Ravenor is a Delta or Gamma level psyker, so its not that great of an ability and he learned through skill and use from the Eldar to divine the future, which points more to that experience and how you use it is more useful than raw ability. Tigerius is a fine psyker, but others can at least match him. Even within the IOM.

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 Orblivion wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


How is that ironic?


Because you dislike a chapter because of stupid mary sue fluff but then you like the DA for presumably the same reason.

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MarsNZ wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


How is that ironic?


Because you dislike a chapter because of stupid mary sue fluff but then you like the DA for presumably the same reason.


Do you even know what a Mary Sue is?

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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Dark Angels are Mary sues? I know that they were secretive and stuff, but I to I don't know enough to make any judgments about them.


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 Wyzilla wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


How is that ironic?


Because you dislike a chapter because of stupid mary sue fluff but then you like the DA for presumably the same reason.


Do you even know what a Mary Sue is?


Yep, do you? Most marine fluff reeks of mary sue, I just find it ironic when SM players deride other SM players because "your chapter is mary sue"

Who's Primarch is secretly alive? Who's apparently still at Legion strength? (snort). Who somehow can avoid the inquisition despite being borderline heretics? Who's first company needed an extra level of terminator to make it more of a snowflake? That was all the Ultramarines right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 02:12:00


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MarsNZ wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


How is that ironic?


Because you dislike a chapter because of stupid mary sue fluff but then you like the DA for presumably the same reason.


Do you even know what a Mary Sue is?


Yep, do you? Most marine fluff reeks of mary sue, I just find it ironic when SM players deride other SM players because "your chapter is mary sue"

Who's Primarch is secretly alive?


The Lion, Guilliman, and Vulkan are all still alive.

Who's apparently still at Legion strength? (snort).


Both the Dark Angels and Ultramarines are "Legions". The Dark Angels Successors will rally to Azrael in times of need or to hunt the fallen, and all the Ultramarine Successors will rally to Calgar to defend Ultramar, such as against the Tyranid threat. However the Dark Angels have never fought at legion strength since the First Founding split.

Who somehow can avoid the inquisition despite being borderline heretics?


The Inquisiiton already knows about the Fallen, and has known such for the past ten thousand years. One of the founding members of the Grey Knights was a Dark Angel who told them everything about the Fallen. The tragedy of the Dark Angels is that they were already forgiven when they first went to war against their traitorous kin on Caliban in M30. Their hunt for the past ten thousand years was in complete vain, and if anything only damned them once more, and more-so than the Fall.

Who's first company needed an extra level of terminator to make it more of a snowflake? That was all the Ultramarines right?


All first company veterans in every chapter are trained to use terminator armor. Plus unlike the other Legions, the Dark Angels never suffered extreme losses like the other legions, and lacked the shear number of successor numbers as the Ultramarines. Them having a surplus of terminator is simply down to the result of the Horus Heresy, along with the Tower of Angels having what is most assuredly an STC within it from the Great Crusade.

You might actually want to bother reading before throwing around wild accusations. Additionally, you don't even know what a Mary Sue is. Only the Space Wolves truly qualify as Mary Sues compared to the other Legions, as even the Ultramarines fall short as they still get utterly thrashed at times. A Mary Sue is somebody that is utterly perfect in every way and breaks the setting. Wesley Crusher is an excellent example of the Mary Sue archetype. Unfortunately, people like you know longer even know what the word actually means any more, and throw it around wildly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 02:43:08


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Um, am I missing something (my fluff isn't the most up to date) but aren't Russ and Corax possibly still alive, like there's a chance they might be? I thought they just set out to the eye of terror and haven't been seen since, which implies they could be still alive, despite how unlikely it is, there would still be a chance they still live?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 02:49:57


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2BlackJack1 wrote:
Um, am I missing something (my fluff isn't the most up to date) but aren't Russ and Corax possibly still alive, like there's a chance they might be? I thought they just set out to the eye of terror and haven't been seen since, which implies they could be still alive, despite how unlikely it is, there would still be a chance they still live?


There's a chance, but it's less certain than Vulkan (whose almost certainly alive, otherwise Kyme's entire Salamander series is defunct). But the Lion and Guilliman and both for certain still breathing (sorta), Vulkan has like a 90% chance of still being alive, and the other guys are all MIA. Knowing the Space Puppies though, Russ is probably still alive.

Hell according to C:SM, even Dorn may still be alive.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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MarsNZ wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.


How is that ironic?


Because you dislike a chapter because of stupid mary sue fluff but then you like the DA for presumably the same reason.


Do you even know what a Mary Sue is?


Yep, do you? Most marine fluff reeks of mary sue, I just find it ironic when SM players deride other SM players because "your chapter is mary sue"

Who's Primarch is secretly alive? Who's apparently still at Legion strength? (snort). Who somehow can avoid the inquisition despite being borderline heretics? Who's first company needed an extra level of terminator to make it more of a snowflake? That was all the Ultramarines right?


Any and all irony in this thread stems from what you've written.

I don't like Dark Angels because they're supposedly Mary Sues. They are not and if you'd understand the term better you wouldn't making that accusation either. I personally like DA because they are so imperfect, the whole hunt for the fallen is such a colossal clusterfeth that no sane marine would get involved with it. The obsession with redeeming your legion and paranoid secrecy resulting sometimes in extreme actions against those considered as allies are also hardly Mary Sue-like characteristics. In short, the whole first legion are more or less mental patients, Angels of Absolution being the most sane of the bunch but still just going along with all the nonsense that is involved in the neverending quest that is The Hunt. More problems result from the legion's incapability of dealing with their problem in a better way. You do know how mental patients were treated in the asylums not so long ago? The whole legion is treating themselves with similar methods because they are too paranoid to ask for any help. In this case, the treatment is vastly worse than the actual condition.

I can't be certain what would be the Imperium's reaction to hearing about what really happened on Caliban but I'm guessing that the legion would get away with it. Even the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisition can't be foolish enough to excommunicate 150 000 marines at once. Chances are it'd be even uglier than during the Heresy because no other legions exist and chapters would just get crushed. And speaking of secrets, the fact that The Lion is alive is such a secret that no one in the legion even knows about it. Guilliman being alive is common knowledge.

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 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
 
   
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Norway

I'm not exceptionally partial to the Dark Angels, but they are 1000 times more interesting than the Ultramarines. They look better in the HH when written by the likes of Abnett though.

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 Nevelon wrote:
It always bothered me that he was talked up as much as he has been, and got brokenly powerful rules in the last codex. Ultramarines are many things, but renowned for their psychers is not one of them. He’s a chief librarian, and no slouch, but I wish the time and effort spent on him were placed elsewhere.

As for touching the hive mind, I suspect it’s somewhat true. Not a full melding/reading of minds, but getting close enough to get a clue of shape and direction. This coupled with “normal” divinations and strategic thoughts is what lets him predict the nids.


I feel the same. I like Tigerius as a character and yes he is pretty good as a chief librarian, but he is definitely overly talked up in the fluff. Other characters have become powerful over time with there being good reasons for them reaching their height of power, e.g. Mephiston being buried for 7 days, conquering the Black Rage, possibly being saved by the spirit of his primarch and thus unleashing his full psychic potential. But with Tigerius (and I suppose a lot of Ultramarine characters - with the exception of Chaplain Cassius, he is just amazing) it feels a little bit like they are written to be just the most amazing with no proper reason why.

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 CaptainLoken wrote:
I think you need to decide what you are looking at, the fluff or the rules.

Rules as written, then Mephiston is the best...stat wise.

But, I think that you are trying to ask about the fluff. In the fluff, considering everything that has been written, then you can argue that Tigurius is one of the strongest ever. He is also one of the most unique, in that he has the ability to see the future better than most Farseers. THAT is his biggest claim to fame in the fluff.

Tigurius, as a young boy, saw that he was destined to be an Ultramarine, and presented himself to the Chapter on his own. He passed a test, where all other candidates failed, because he had already seen the outcome. THEN he began his training.

Seeing into the future is not easy for Humanity. Ravenor even spent time with the Eldar trying to improve his ability, because he knew that it could help the Imperium. Most psykers in the Imperium can only use the Emperor's Tarot to get vague glimpses into the future. Tigurius can see the future as if he has already lived it.

He has amazing power besides this as well. Like, when he held off a deamon army, on his own, for days, without rest. Sure, he was burning his soul to do so, but he did it. And, everyone loved him for it.

He blasted a cabal of Chaos Sorcerers, by himself. Sure, he had to strain, but he did it.

He has touched the Hive Mind, and survived the contact.

He is no joke. He is one of the best in the history of the Imperium.

My personal favorite, is when he goes into the Temple of Correction when he begins to feel weary by his visions and duties. He sits there, alone, and meditates on the future. After some time, he looks at the face of his Primarch, and smiles...

The dude is a total power house. It shouldn't make any difference if he is an Ultramarine.


While I agree that Tigerus is awesome...Mephiston is also better or more powerful fluff wise. Besides the Codex stuff, both Eclipse of Hope and Mephiston: Lord of Death, sets him apart. The pure raw power (not just physical) is insane. He's able to use the wrap in a way no other psyker has been shown.

Besides his stats, he can fly, was shown warping reality (turning the ground to lava or something), beat Doombreed. Decapitated Bloodthirster. Beat a group of TS Sorcerers. Beat three Sorcerers in sword fighting. SoB he also touched the hivemind. Blew up a rhino with a swing of his sword.

Tigrus is the most skilled, but when it comes to raw power and physical prowess, its Mephistion hands down for Libbys., IMHO.
   
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Voted #1. Wrote some then realized it's all been said. So there ya go
   
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 Wyzilla wrote:


The Lion, Guilliman, and Vulkan are all still alive.

Who somehow can avoid the inquisition despite being borderline heretics?


The Inquisiiton already knows about the Fallen, and has known such for the past ten thousand years. One of the founding members of the Grey Knights was a Dark Angel who told them everything about the Fallen. The tragedy of the Dark Angels is that they were already forgiven when they first went to war against their traitorous kin on Caliban in M30. Their hunt for the past ten thousand years was in complete vain, and if anything only damned them once more, and more-so than the Fall.

Who's first company needed an extra level of terminator to make it more of a snowflake? That was all the Ultramarines right?


All first company veterans in every chapter are trained to use terminator armor. Plus unlike the other Legions, the Dark Angels never suffered extreme losses like the other legions, and lacked the shear number of successor numbers as the Ultramarines. Them having a surplus of terminator is simply down to the result of the Horus Heresy, along with the Tower of Angels having what is most assuredly an STC within it from the Great Crusade.

You might actually want to bother reading before throwing around wild accusations. Additionally, you don't even know what a Mary Sue is. Only the Space Wolves truly qualify as Mary Sues compared to the other Legions, as even the Ultramarines fall short as they still get utterly thrashed at times. A Mary Sue is somebody that is utterly perfect in every way and breaks the setting. Wesley Crusher is an excellent example of the Mary Sue archetype. Unfortunately, people like you know longer even know what the word actually means any more, and throw it around wildly.


1. Vulkan is dead, as he was stabbed with a Jupiter sized plot hole called Fulgerite given to john gramaticus by the cabal. It is a crystallized essence of the emperor's psyker might. it is the only thing that can kill perpetuals. ( I was very pissed about this when i read it)

2. If the inquisition is aware of the fallen and their quest is in vain it is a very small minority of the Inquisition and the HLOT are surely not aware, because even chapters that have had unfortunate gene seed flaws have had to do penance, so i doubt they would be cool with half of a chapter going rogue. What evidence do you have to support this claim?

3. There is not evidence to suggest that the DA have an STC. The Rock has foundries, where they make weapons and some other DA specific things, but they still rely on Ad. Mech for a lot of their standard issue gear. For instance, according to the fluff, current variants of land speeders were re-discovered on mars in M35, and the heavy use of land speeders in their current design, means that they couldn't have produced them on the rock. also the rock is not large enough to house manufactorums for every piece of equipment the DA uses, as that would require an entire forge world.

4. In regards to mary sue's, this game is about epic 7.5 foot tall post human warrior monks that live for hundred of years fighting unimaginably horrible things. It is a matter of perspective. From a guard player's perspective all SM are Mary Sues. Mary sue status is relative to fluff, and comparable abilities and is a completely subjective moniker. Every chapter/ faction (maybe excluding IG) has one or two that could be considered mary sue. some are given less emphasis than others. The DA have a couple (looking at samael and belial as they rarely lose in the fluff) but significantly less than say the grey knights (who's entire chapter is made up of Mary sues) and ultra marines because they are the standard by which all space marine chapters are judged (codex astartes compliant ones at least) so it would stand to reason that they would have some of the best librarian/chapter master/ characters, because they are the poster boys of the SM. I'm not sure why people get mad at the idea of Mary sue, because it isn't like every faction doesn't have access to one. If the fluff of them pisses you off, you are clearly playing the wrong game, as this fluff is based on propaganda, multiple unconnected and unaccountable writers, and the projected awesome/terribleness of a galactic spanning conflict with technology that is largely physically impossible. The entire fluff meta is driven by space magic, "unobtainium" and hand wavery. There is even a god of convoluted and impossible schemes, which work most of the time. i am speaking specifically from a fluff perspective. Mary sue's on tt and using broken combos and exploitable rules sets is an entirely different thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/15 14:12:21


The Emperor Protects
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
 
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





So I take it that the consensus is that Tigurius lives up to his reputation or at least comes close?
Cool I now have alot of info I never knew about him before.


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

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