Worst Unit in Each Codex

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**Salvation**

vipoid wrote:
Salvation wrote:

Yeah but S3 and T3 is the core of DE. Everything that has a part in DE (excluding Slyth and MC) has S3 and T3.

Grotesques are S5 T5, Incubi are have S4 AP2 weapons and a meaningful armour save.

Furthermore, you'll notice that many of our S3 units don't actually use their strength value because they're armed with wonderful devices known as guns.

Salvation wrote:
DE is a glass cannon

And Bloodbrides are just glass.

Salvation wrote:
wyches get a 4+ invul in CC and can bounce around in cover

Bounce around in cover... doing what? They don't have stealth, they're only armed with pistols so why use them over warriors? Warriors can also bounce around in cover, but can actually put out some shots whilst doing so.

Salvation wrote:
or a 3+ jinking raider

Warriors again say 'hi'.

Salvation wrote:
shooting at Wyches or Bloodbrides isn't the problem

It's far from the only problem, but it is a big problem.

Salvation wrote:
the problem is that for whatever reason they decided to nerf the Wych Weapons, making regular 2 attack Wyches not worth the points and get gak on by 2 attack space marines with T4, even if the Wyches outnumber the combat squad.

No, that isn't the problem. That was just a little extra nerf atop the mountain of other nerfs.

The problem is that wyches have no useful role. They're not durable, they don't hit hard and they can't even spam HWGs anymore. Bloodbrides are even worse because they have the exact same problem, but are elites.

Salvation wrote:

The extra attack from Bloodbrides really makes them worthwhile as a points filler if you can't get incubi or grotesques

No, it doesn't. Not even close. They don't do anything and they don't add anything to an army. They're not even cheap. if you have the points to blow on bloodbrides, then you have enough points for a better unit instead.

Salvation wrote:
and they get S4 on the charge on turn 4 anyway

Oh goody. I love it when my Elite combat unit needs to hang back until turn 4 to be the slightest bit worth a damn. And, even then, they're still garbage. Seriously, in the age of D-weapons, Scatter-bikes, Dreadknights, Riptides and Flyrants, who in their right mind is afraid of some S4 attacks with no AP or useful special rules?

Salvation wrote:
and turn 6 gives them +2 attacks on the charge, making them ideally S4 T3 5A for 13pts each

You know that a game might not even last till turn 6, right? I imagine a lot of Bloodbrides certainly won't...

Salvation wrote:
just keep them in a darting raider in between combat

This seems optimistic, to say the least. Who's this opponent you're playing who's units are getting mowed down by S3 attacks (presumably with negligible overwatch, which rules out Tau and IG), and who also can't kill a raider in his own front lines?

Salvation wrote:
I wouldn't do this for regular wyches though as they usually don't last through their first CC battle :/

Indeed. Good job Blodbrides have all that extra survivability like... um... the ability to hide on shelves for entire editions?

Yo so umm....... have you even played with bloodbrides? Haha I played a game against Tau today and I think you forget, overwatch needs 6's to hit, that is hard to do regularly even for grouped up tau as i found out today. Grotesques sure have a damn good amount of survivability sure, but they also are expensive and slow and dumb and also die quite as often as the rest of a DE army despite their high toughness.

Also I love you just neglected the tactic with Haemonculi + Animus Vitae bumping up PFP, also ever considered a WWP or maybe the fact that cover saves are better than 6+ save that they have or the fact that warriors are useless in CC or that fleet allows for darting from place to place very damn effectively, honestly, play a game and actually use some tactics once in a while, seems like you just sit there and shoot thinking you are tau but you aren't tau.

**Poly Ranger**

Warptalons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

sweetbacon wrote:
Slaphead wrote:
Based on current codices:

Blood Angels - Captain Tycho (What is the point of him?)
Dark Angels - Nephilim jetfighter (with Avenger MEGA bolter and S6 missiles - ooh how scary!)
Grey Knights - Rhino

Why the Rhino? It's a super cheap transport. I wish our more fragile DE transports were that cheap.

But your transports have opentopped (so also assault vehicle), fast skimmer speed and jink (which makes them more survivable). I wish my BA had access to fast assault vehicle skimmers.

**vipoid**

Salvation wrote:

Yo so umm....... have you even played with bloodbrides? Haha I played a game against Tau today and I think you forget, overwatch needs 6's to hit, that is hard to do regularly even for grouped up tau as i found out today.

Speaking as someone who's played Tau regularly, no, it's really not hard to do significant damage. Especially when any markerlight hits mean other squads are hitting on 5s. And, virtually every weapon in the Tau arsenal is killing bloodbrides on 2s.

Salvation wrote:
Grotesques sure have a damn good amount of survivability sure, but they also are expensive and slow and dumb and also die quite as often as the rest of a DE army despite their high toughness.

I'm not sure how T5 with 3 wounds and FNP dies as easily as T3 with no save.

Also, Bloodbrides have Fleet. That's literally their only speed advantage over Grotesques.

Salvation wrote:

Also I love you just neglected the tactic with Haemonculi + Animus Vitae bumping up PFP,

If you're including a Haemonculi, then you just lost your touted speed advantage. Bravo.

Furthermore, please show me the rule wherein Animus is a guaranteed buff.

Salvation wrote:
also ever considered a WWP

Yep - always for better units.

Salvation wrote:
or maybe the fact that cover saves are better than 6+ save

In which case, have fun getting bogged down in cover, whilst that Haemonculus removes your fleet reroll.

Also, Flamers say hi'.

Salvation wrote:
or the fact that warriors are useless in CC

So are bloodbrides, what's your point?

Salvation wrote:
or that fleet allows for darting from place to place very damn effectively

By what possible measure?

Salvation wrote:
honestly, play a game and actually use some tactics once in a while, seems like you just sit there and shoot thinking you are tau but you aren't tau.

I suggest you try playing your bloodbrides against an opponent with a pulse.

**Mr_Piddlez**

Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

**Alcibiades**

Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

He's eternal because whoever kiills him becomes him, not because he can wade through Earthshaker barrages.

**Camundongo**

Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

Ahriman is lacking as well. ML4 and the ability to cast a witchfire three times per psychic phase is nice, but he's no more reliable casting them than a normal sorcerer (or worse, seeing as sorcerers can take a spell familiar).

Add that to the fact he's somewhat limited in terms of which schools he can use, and that all that stands before him and instant death from power fists and krak missiles is a 4++...

He can sometimes do really well, if he gets lucky, but mostly he's a massive point sink, which is very sad considering his fluff. :(

**Kain**

Camundongo wrote:
Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

Ahriman is lacking as well. ML4 and the ability to cast a witchfire three times per psychic phase is nice, but he's no more reliable casting them than a normal sorcerer (or worse, seeing as sorcerers can take a spell familiar).

Add that to the fact he's somewhat limited in terms of which schools he can use, and that all that stands before him and instant death from power fists and krak missiles is a 4++...

He can sometimes do really well, if he gets lucky, but mostly he's a massive point sink, which is very sad considering his fluff. :(

I can do you one better.

Old One Eye. aka "I paid how much for a crushing claw carnifex?"

**Alcibiades**

Also, Vipoid, you probably aren't aware of this, this being the Internet, but you're coming across as extremely arrogant and kind of a jerk. Tone it down, man.

**nudibranch**

I know it's a bit early, but considering we've seen most of the rules, i would like to nominate Electropriests. Yes, the formation makes them mildly more useful, but they're still outclassed by basic Skitarii, especially considering the WD formation.

**Mr_Piddlez**

Alcibiades wrote:
Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

He's eternal because whoever kiills him becomes him, not because he can wade through Earthshaker barrages.

I'm well aware of that. He's got such interesting fluff, I wish there was a practical way to represent his constant regenerating through others on the tabletop.

Camundongo wrote:
Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Unit Wise: Mutilators (I've actually won a game with warptalons once. It was a miracle, but it did happen.)

Special Character Wise: Lucius the Eternal. Nothing quite like a CC Special Character who unlocks troops that are some of the best shooters in the codex. Lets try to ignore the fact that he doesn't have eternal warrior... which makes little sense considering his fluff and the fact that ETERNAL is in his name.

Ahriman is lacking as well. ML4 and the ability to cast a witchfire three times per psychic phase is nice, but he's no more reliable casting them than a normal sorcerer (or worse, seeing as sorcerers can take a spell familiar).

Add that to the fact he's somewhat limited in terms of which schools he can use, and that all that stands before him and instant death from power fists and krak missiles is a 4++...

He can sometimes do really well, if he gets lucky, but mostly he's a massive point sink, which is very sad considering his fluff. :(

There's always the Master of Deception warlord trait of his and him dropping three psychic shrieks a turn isn't bad either. Realistically though, since the introduction of the psychic phase, He's been crippled kinda hard. If they rework the psychic phase in a way where its less of a mess, he may become viable again. That is another argument for another thread though.

**vipoid**

Alcibiades wrote:
He's eternal because whoever kiills him becomes him

If only that was represented in game...

'If Lucius is killed in a challenge, the character that killed him is removed from play and replaced with Lucius the Eternal.'

"Oh, don't worry, Draigo - I'm sure you can beat him."

**Mr_Piddlez**

vipoid wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
He's eternal because whoever kiills him becomes him

If only that was represented in game...

'If Lucius is killed in a challenge, the character that killed him is removed from play and replaced with Lucius the Eternal.'

"Oh, don't worry, Draigo - I'm sure you can beat him."

It would be a good way to constantly keep enemy beatstick characters refusing challenges. But only if they don't have a sergeant to eat the challenge for them.