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 MWHistorian wrote:
Entitlement. They want something and don't want to pay for it.
I had to join the army to go to college.

You learn though of the 11 things that the 1st SGT says that drive everyone insane

Like
"It would behoove you...."
"Don't drink and drive and if you do drive don't drink"
"All this and a paycheck to"

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So wait, did you really read those links Relapse? One says that because of a protest, they had to call another ambulance and it all worked out great. It was praising the backup plan. The second link you sent is complaining about traffic congestion and the need for ambulance services to have a green light device. The third is the corruption scandal involving Chris Christie in NJ and the 4th was delayed because of a city ordinance requiring police escort that took way longer than it should have.

I am not sure how you think this helps your case.

Clearly you didn't think about what you read. In the first story, How much time was added to the call when the first ambulance crew realized they couldn't make it and they had to call the second ambulance? If you are as knowledgable of medicine as you claim, then you will admit even a minute can make the difference between life and death

From the article you mention talking about the green light,

"Respondents reported traveling on city streets most often during emergency calls, and encountering traffic more often on interstates and national highways. Traffic congestion, on average, resulted in nearly 10min extra response time. Most agreed that the most effective in-vehicle technology for reducing response time was a pre-emptive green light device; however, very few reported availability of this device in their emergency vehicles. Public education regarding how to react to approaching emergency vehicles was stated as having the greatest potential impact on reducing emergency response time."

The point there is that respondents experienced 10 extra minutes added to their response time because of congestion. If everything was as easy as you imply, there would be no drag in that time.

This goes for the third. Traffic is snarled? Big deal, call in life flight. Wait a minute, life flight couldn't land anywhere near enough to help or it would have been called in!

The fourth, if you bothered to read, said the ordinence was in force because of protests choking the area and they didn't want the crew at risk, so they had to wait for police.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Entitlement. They want something and don't want to pay for it.
I had to join the army to go to college.

You learn though of the 11 things that the 1st SGT says that drive everyone insane

Like
"It would behoove you...."
"Don't drink and drive and if you do drive don't drink"
"All this and a paycheck to"

And the big one, "Stand the F@&$ By"

Well it does make a good point. I mean, My mom told me how she never took loans out and how she just paid with her summer job.
And when textbooks can cost upwards of 500$ a quarter

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well it does make a good point. I mean, My mom told me how she never took loans out and how she just paid with her summer job.
And when textbooks can cost upwards of 500$ a quarter

Compared to when your mom went to college, I think she'd have to have one helluva job to make it in many of today's schools....


For instance, this is the quote, per year for a full time student at U. of Washington as an "instate" student: $27,112.... IF your costs stayed exactly the same over the 4 years of school, you're looking at $108,448... and I'd bet money that your costs will increase year to year (I have noticed that the more "Specialized" a class is, the more money the required text is)

At UW, if you were an "out of state" student, you're looking at 48k per year, and again, I really doubt the expenses would stay set at that rate year to year.


The problem that I personally have with many colleges, is that as tuition rates are going up, the people at the top are acting as if they are Walmart CEOs.... they are looking to cut costs at every opportunity, which leads to paying adjunct professors next to nothing to teach, paying them for "part time work" and expecting that person to perform on a level with a tenured full time, full benefits professor. If you're wondering where that obvious excess goes, at least at my school, it goes to the "CEO" types on the board, as well as the chancellor of the school.


I'm currently in a situation where, in one class I have an adjunct professor who is constantly late, but has the gall, when asked how he can improve (surprise surprise, everyone in class said, "SHOW UP ON TIME"), he responds with, "I'm not paid to be here early" Well, no gak Sherlock, but while I may not have much/any civilian work experience, but even I know that you need to show up early enough that you can start your "shift" on time. That means if you're being paid to teach a class from 9-950 each day, Monday-Friday, you had better be actually teaching or starting class AT 9, not walking through the door at 915.

Total lack of respect on that professor's part. Any options?

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So wait, did you really read those links Relapse? One says that because of a protest, they had to call another ambulance and it all worked out great. It was praising the backup plan. The second link you sent is complaining about traffic congestion and the need for ambulance services to have a green light device. The third is the corruption scandal involving Chris Christie in NJ and the 4th was delayed because of a city ordinance requiring police escort that took way longer than it should have.

I am not sure how you think this helps your case.

Clearly you didn't think about what you read. In the first story, How much time was added to the call when the first ambulance crew realized they couldn't make it and they had to call the second ambulance? If you are as knowledgable of medicine as you claim, then you will admit even a minute can make the difference between life and death

From the article you mention talking about the green light,

"Respondents reported traveling on city streets most often during emergency calls, and encountering traffic more often on interstates and national highways. Traffic congestion, on average, resulted in nearly 10min extra response time. Most agreed that the most effective in-vehicle technology for reducing response time was a pre-emptive green light device; however, very few reported availability of this device in their emergency vehicles. Public education regarding how to react to approaching emergency vehicles was stated as having the greatest potential impact on reducing emergency response time."

The point there is that respondents experienced 10 extra minutes added to their response time because of congestion. If everything was as easy as you imply, there would be no drag in that time.

This goes for the third. Traffic is snarled? Big deal, call in life flight. Wait a minute, life flight couldn't land anywhere near enough to help or it would have been called in!

The fourth, if you bothered to read, said the ordinence was in force because of protests choking the area and they didn't want the crew at risk, so they had to wait for police.

Did you read in the first article where Firefighters and EMTs were already on the scene treating the patient? So, help got there very quickly.

As for the second article, it is talking about congestion at all times and they are asking for a device to make getting through lights faster. This has nothing to do with protests and everything to do with our ambulances being under equipped.

The fourth article is about a city ordinance that makes perfect sense. Because most cities have police escort ambulance services through traffic. The issue was with the response time of the Cops. Clearly they did not think it would be smart to keep one or two patrol cars held back in case they needed to assist paramedics with the ordinance. This was a planning issue. If people were being smart about it, when a protest began they would put a cop with every ambulance if that ambulance is not allowed to go to a scene without escort. That was poor planning. Not the protests fault.

What about the article about Chris Christie?

Relapse wrote:
Total lack of respect on that professor's part. Any options?

About a third of the class have gone to the Dean of Humanities Dept. about his numerous issues (It's not just timeliness)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Total lack of respect on that professor's part. Any options?

About a third of the class have gone to the Dean of Humanities Dept. about his numerous issues (It's not just timeliness)

Good luck to you on that. The professor sounds like a total dick that should long ago have been out on his butt.

Relapse wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Total lack of respect on that professor's part. Any options?

About a third of the class have gone to the Dean of Humanities Dept. about his numerous issues (It's not just timeliness)

Good luck to you on that. The professor sounds like a total dick that should long ago have been out on his butt.

Yep... but I'm patient... I will wait for either the end of quarter "reviews" and let the Dean know where he stands, or I'll have collected all that info and go straight to her if there's no reviews.

For being a college level professor, he should know that "twilit" is a word... and in my particular case, when I used it in a piece of writing, I used it correctly.... so he apparently has some reading comprehension issues. His syllabus does not reflect in much of any way, what the actual class is on. Every class I've had before and around this one, the Syllabus outlines precisely how things work, when the big things are due, what things are worth (as in, quizzes are worth 10% of the overall grade, research paper is worth 25%, etc). It should, at the very least outline that there's an expectation that parts of the class are to be done in an online environment (I didn't sign up for an online class, and it wasn't mentioned in the syllabus, so when I am surprised when someone says, "ohh, this assignment was online"... you really have no ground to stand on when I'm asking where the assignment came from)

Political activism is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't hinder or disrupt the actives or ongoing of everyday life for the average citizen. However, if there was an emergency in my life, such as needing to get a family member or pet to seek medical attention and these "people" prevented me from being able to do that, I would do my best to find out who's responsible and put a bullet in their head.

Political Activism is fine. Militant Hippyism is bad wrong. Badong, even.

 kronk wrote:
Political Activism is fine. Militant Hippyism is bad wrong. Badong, even.

But what if they're really cute hippies?

Aetaos'rau'keres wrote:
Political activism is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't hinder or disrupt the actives or ongoing of everyday life for the average citizen.

Protests that don't affect anything are useless. Of course they'll block something important because if they didn't they wouldn't have any leverage and would be ignored. This is just basic tactics.

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Political Activism is fine. Militant Hippyism is bad wrong. Badong, even.

But what if they're really cute hippies?

There is a place for militant free love.

Aetaos'rau'keres wrote:
Political activism is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't hinder or disrupt the actives or ongoing of everyday life for the average citizen. However, if there was an emergency in my life, such as needing to get a family member or pet to seek medical attention and these "people" prevented me from being able to do that, I would do my best to find out who's responsible and put a bullet in their head.

It is a good thing we have services to work around such situations so as to not provoke such a ridiculous and murderous reaction.

Helicopters, saving move lives than you know!

Rosebuddy wrote:

Aetaos'rau'keres wrote:
Political activism is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't hinder or disrupt the actives or ongoing of everyday life for the average citizen.

Protests that don't affect anything are useless. Of course they'll block something important because if they didn't they wouldn't have any leverage and would be ignored. This is just basic tactics.

Then you won't mind if I run your ass over and throw the remains of my coffee on your twitching carcass because I don't want to ignore you.


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Political Activism is fine. Militant Hippyism is bad wrong. Badong, even.

But what if they're really cute hippies?

There is a place for militant free love.

Mmm...college dating. Hippy girls in VWs. Life was good.

Rosebuddy wrote:

Aetaos'rau'keres wrote:
Political activism is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't hinder or disrupt the actives or ongoing of everyday life for the average citizen.

Protests that don't affect anything are useless. Of course they'll block something important because if they didn't they wouldn't have any leverage and would be ignored. This is just basic tactics.

They could protest in such a way to make their message heard and recognized without disrupting the general public. They could have chained themselves to the doors of the Governors mansion, or to the state capitol. They could have blocked entry into university facilities. Doing something along those lines would still draw public attention, probably the good kind. The kind where people support your cause and recognize your grievances. Instead, they're facing criminal charges and there's a petition going around to have them expelled. Instead of creating positive support, they've only angered the general public, they've damaged their cause, reputations, and futures for their idiotic actions. Don't take that as me being unsympathetic to their cause. I honestly, do agree with part of their general message. That tuition is increasing at a rapid rate and it's becoming increasingly difficult to pay for it, especially with the job prospects that lie ahead. However disrupting major services to the general public is extremely selfish and uncalled for. What they did put peoples lives in danger by creating a disruption in the ability of emergency services to perform their jobs. It cost businesses money, it cost hospital patients their treatments for the day, and it cost a family their pets life. I hope they all get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, thrown out of college, and end up homeless. As far as I'm concerned they got handled with cotton mittens when they deserved the sledgehammer.

 Frazzled wrote:

Then you won't mind if I run your ass over and throw the remains of my coffee on your twitching carcass because I don't want to ignore you.

I'm not sure why you're fantasising about murdering me. All I've done is explain fundamental protest tactics, which remain true regardless of what the reason people cite for protesting is. I would expect everyone ranging from nazis to communists to have at least this level of understanding of power.

Aetaos'rau'keres wrote:

They could protest in such a way to make their message heard and recognized without disrupting the general public. They could have chained themselves to the doors of the Governors mansion, or to the state capitol. They could have blocked entry into university facilities. Doing something along those lines would still draw public attention, probably the good kind. The kind where people support your cause and recognize your grievances Instead they're facing criminal charges and are there's a petition going around to have them expelled. Instead of creating positive support, they're only angered the general public, they're damaged their cause, reputations, and futures for their idiotic actions. I hope they all get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, thrown out of college, and end up homeless.

None of your suggestions affect materially important things, though. The political apparatus can wait it out and blocking universities would only affect students, who don't particularly produce anything nor pay by the day. If you block roads, though, you affect actual businesses. You disrupt the economic workings of the city.

It's not roads you block, it's entrances and exits to buildings, government, corporate, or otherwise. Also manufacturing plants, distribution centers, and so on.

Blocking actual roads blocks school buses, ambulances, and fire trucks, and is a gakky thing to do. Also dumb.

It's seems quite efficient to block roads when you don't have the numbers necessary to block everything they lead to.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Then you won't mind if I run your ass over and throw the remains of my coffee on your twitching carcass because I don't want to ignore you.

I'm not sure why you're fantasising about murdering me. All I've done is explain fundamental protest tactics, which remain true regardless of what the reason people cite for protesting is. I would expect everyone ranging from nazis to communists to have at least this level of understanding of power.

Then you're playing from the wrong book, the book where your head gets kicked in, because most protests aren't stupid enough to try to block roads.



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Rosebuddy wrote:
It's seems quite efficient to block roads when you don't have the numbers necessary to block everything they lead to.

Not efficient if you're in the hospital. Please cite instances of successful protests blocking streets in the US that achieved something.

Rosebuddy wrote:


None of your suggestions affect materially important things, though. The political apparatus can wait it out and blocking universities would only affect students, who don't particularly produce anything nor pay by the day. If you block roads, though, you affect actual businesses. You disrupt the economic workings of the city.

Blocking traffic doesn't actually have any noticeable affect on anything that relates to their grievances either. All it serves it to hinder emergency services and the daily actives of the average citizen who probably doesn't care about tuition hikes. In other words, they're taking out their anger and frustrations on the wrong people. It isn't the joe-commuter going to work in the morning that's causing tuition to increase drastically each year. It's the policies of the university. It's the pay for professors, it's tenure, and pensions, and sports facilities, and so-on. They want to make a change? Find the biggest college athletic complex in the state and when the time comes for the biggest sports event of the year, block entry into the facility. Hold student sit-ins on campus facilities. Lock professors out of their classrooms. Block entry for administrative staff. That would cause a disruption at the actual facility where the problem lies. Blocking traffic isn't going to accomplish anything other than to piss people off and have them turn against you before you've even won them to your side. Part of me wonders if people even go to college to actually learn anymore. It seems like people are more concerned with "social" activism than they are an education. No wonder these people can't find jobs. They opt for social sciences and refuse to actually learn any skills that can lead them to be productive members of society. A lot of these people would be better going straight to work after finishing high-school. The problems many face are of their own doing.

 Frazzled wrote:


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Rosebuddy wrote:
It's seems quite efficient to block roads when you don't have the numbers necessary to block everything they lead to.

Not efficient if you're in the hospital. Please cite instances of successful protests blocking streets in the US that achieved something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom


Hardly the same, I know, but still.

Derpleted.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It's seems quite efficient to block roads when you don't have the numbers necessary to block everything they lead to.

Not efficient if you're in the hospital. Please cite instances of successful protests blocking streets in the US that achieved something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom


Hardly the same, I know, but still.

Not seeing where anything was being blocked or in any way relevant to anything in this thread.

 Frazzled wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It's seems quite efficient to block roads when you don't have the numbers necessary to block everything they lead to.

Not efficient if you're in the hospital. Please cite instances of successful protests blocking streets in the US that achieved something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom


Hardly the same, I know, but still.

Not seeing where anything was being blocked or in any way relevant to anything in this thread.

The city was also well prepared for the march, had additional police forces and national guard forces to assist with the event as well.

Pretty sure both Tahrir Square and Maidan were blocked as part of the Arab Spring and Ukrainian episode, respectively.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pretty sure both Tahrir Square and Maidan were blocked as part of the Arab Spring and Ukrainian episode, respectively.

Mmm ISIL and shirtless Putin.

 marv335 wrote:
You have to take responsibility for your actions.
These students, if they had been successful in their protest would have, no doubt. taken credit for the policy reversal on fees.
The also now have to take responsibility for the harm they caused during their protest.

This pretty much.

I believe that if the protest was indeed about the topic at hand, they could have protested on campus, and blocked off offices and what not. I'm not sure what they were hoping to accomplish by blocking traffic, other than to piss people off.

PROTIP: You don't win support to your cause by pissing off the people you're trying to persuade.

Yeah, I agree. But the problem is we are taught here a narrative about how the only effective protest disrupts the status quo, ala the American Revolution, not realizing the revolution was about giving us the tools so we would take have to do protests like this.