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Can you imagine what the staircases would look like?

So the scenery which we already know that Mantic can do well they show us. The stuff that has proven repeatedly problematic in the past hard plastic infantry is very purposefully not being shown. Feels like a bait and switch to me.

If the pledge manager window being so narrow is justified by production windows there surely must be more stuff ready to show even if its just sprue renders. We know there's a painted prototype of the new dog drone as they use an incredibly tiny picture of it used on the pledge manager store so why can't they show it to us properly?

I know Kings of War is exploding at the moment, and I'm sure thats quite sensibly where the companies focus is. I know Mantic has kickstarter ADHD on an institutional level but this is just getting ridiculous with the lack of attention Deadzone is receiving.

Now I'm sorry I didn't get another, like, 50 terrain sprues. That looks really nice.

 David Clarke wrote:
So the scenery which we already know that Mantic can do well they show us. The stuff that has proven repeatedly problematic in the past hard plastic infantry is very purposefully not being shown. Feels like a bait and switch to me.

If the pledge manager window being so narrow is justified by production windows there surely must be more stuff ready to show even if its just sprue renders. We know there's a painted prototype of the new dog drone as they use an incredibly tiny picture of it used on the pledge manager store so why can't they show it to us properly?

I know Kings of War is exploding at the moment, and I'm sure thats quite sensibly where the companies focus is. I know Mantic has kickstarter ADHD on an institutional level but this is just getting ridiculous with the lack of attention Deadzone is receiving.

There is a dog drone picture like two pages back in this thread and on a load of mantic and kickstarter mailshots.

You've seen masters of the pathfinders and DOG, you've seen renders of the two kinds of rat, if that's not enough you're fully entitled to not buy anything in the PM.

Having all of their most recent plastic sprues in hand - Enforcer, Peacekeeper, Forge Guard, SciFi Zombie - I'm fully confident in their ability to deliver quality product, and have bought accordingly.

 David Clarke wrote:
So the scenery which we already know that Mantic can do well they show us. The stuff that has proven repeatedly problematic in the past hard plastic infantry is very purposefully not being shown. Feels like a bait and switch to me.

lol wut

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Can you imagine what the staircases would look like?

Maybe they're paying an homage to Tim Burton.. but being very subtle about it?

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
There is a dog drone picture like two pages back in this thread and on a load of mantic and kickstarter mailshots.

The same low res picture being repeated ad nauseam does not an update make. I have read every update and kept up to date with this thread. The model exists and I would just like to see something other than a quick dodgy photoshop job so I can see it actually in scale with the other models. If the model exists why on earth wouldn't Mantic want to show it to us properly? Its their creation so surely they must be proud of it?

 Alex C wrote:
lol wut

Don't quite know what you are getting at there mate, so I'll explain myself to see if we are not misunderstanding one another. Mantic's Deadzone scenery whilst having a crap connector system, has everywhere I've been has been received positively as good modular plastic terrain and one of the best things to come out of the first kickstarter. Mantic's hard plastic infantry production as far as I am aware has been mainly a tail of woe and poor reviews. I know some kits have come out fine those original skeletons for kings of wars were a thing of beauty and as far as I am aware the more recent Enforcer kits have been at an acceptable standard. But then there were kits like the Basilean men at arms or the original steel warriors that just didn't deliver or the ForgeGuard whose production problems set back one of the Deadzone release waves by several months. When I'm shown a new version of a product that I've heard only good about and am met with stony silence on the subject that could be a potential major fail my spider senses start telling me that someone is trying to pull one over on me.

I know kickstarter is more than an elaborate pre-order system and a lot has to be taken on faith. Guess what one of the best ways to inspire that kind of faith is? Open and honest communication. The more I know the better decisions I can make and I'll be much more comfortable parting with my money. I get that theres a lot people with more money and an overabundance of good will/fondness for risk taking than me, that's great we're all different people. Is it really that wrong to want to be able to make a reasonably informed decision before entering a speculative financial arrangement with a partner who you know to have engaged in dubious practices in the past?

That terrain looks great. After Renedra failed completely to deliver decent fantasy ruins in plastic, maybe Mantic could get something done up to the same standard as the Deadline stuff has been.

If Reaper Miniatures are to be believed.. then Mantic is already being dishonest by using Kickstarter to sell existing products (in DZ:I they sold DZ sets and all of KoW was existing minis +new rules..that..are free). So either Reaper miniatures is lying about KS requiring project creators to only offer new items as rewards or Mantic is violating a core rule of kickstarter campaigns. This is definitely a chin-scratcher for me..

As to Mantic delivering or not.. I have absolutely no doubt Mantic will deliver products. The quality of that product however is not guaranteed. They have product ranging from worst Heroclix sculpt level quality all the way up to "holy crap that's awesome!" quality.

David Clarke makes some interesting points but the delay from the FF set doesn't pertain to the final quality of those products, just Mantic hitting a (IMO fairly typical) production snag that they did make an effort to smooth over.

At the end of the day, Mantic is in the business of creating models (and games I guess) to make money. They've never been shy about the fact that they're riding on GWs' coat-tails and using the growing swell of players fleeing that sinking ship to float their own boats. If you think a business who builds their model around that kind of philosophy is at their core, good, honest, and to be trusted, then I have a bridge to sell you. It's right next to this toy shop in the North Pole.. fantastic view.

Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Yeah, they're plastic tooling is on par with GW in most of the newest instances I've seen. It's their sculpts that I keep finding wanting. Tiny foot syndrome is an unfortunate truth for many of their figures. With a small donation equal to a cup of coffee, you could proved regular feet to one lucky miniature. In return, we'll send you.. this hand towel with our logo and your model will write you a heartfelt thank you note for bringing them the gift of regular sized feet.

 MLaw wrote:
If Reaper Miniatures are to be believed.. then Mantic is already being dishonest by using Kickstarter to sell existing products (in DZ:I they sold DZ sets and all of KoW was existing minis +new rules..that..are free). So either Reaper miniatures is lying about KS requiring project creators to only offer new items as rewards or Mantic is violating a core rule of kickstarter campaigns. This is definitely a chin-scratcher for me..

Or Reaper is just wrong.

Can I offer rewards that aren't produced by me or my project?

All rewards should be produced directly by you or your project. If your project is a collaborative effort, offering rewards produced by your collaborators is fine too!

Rewards not produced by the creator - We prohibit rewards not designed or produced by the creator. If your project is a collaborative effort, offering rewards produced by your collaborators is fine. We also allow creators to offer branded swag as rewards, though we don't recommend it. They tend to be much less compelling than unique rewards that speak to the spirit of your project. Additionally, offering experiential rewards (a trip somewhere with the band, a prop from the film, the guitarist's signed guitar), is within our rules.

As long as Mantic is only selling stuff they make, the rules seem to allow offering existing items.

 MLaw wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Yeah, they're plastic tooling is on par with GW in most of the newest instances I've seen. It's their sculpts that I keep finding wanting. Tiny foot syndrome is an unfortunate truth for many of their figures. With a small donation equal to a cup of coffee, you could proved regular feet to one lucky miniature. In return, we'll send you.. this hand towel with our logo and your model will write you a heartfelt thank you note for bringing them the gift of regular sized feet.

...You realise there's, like, actual renders of most of the plastic stuff available, as it already was while the KS was still running?

then there's this naive doozy from your previous post:

. They've never been shy about the fact that they're riding on GWs' coat-tails and using the growing swell of players fleeing that sinking ship to float their own boats. If you think a business who builds their model around that kind of philosophy is at their core, good, honest, and to be trusted, then I have a bridge to sell you. It's right next to this toy shop in the North Pole.. fantastic view.

Right. Because making derivatives of products of complacent industry giants is bad now? Good grief, that's where most innovation comes from.
Additionally, and staying within the tabletop gaming industry here, compare and contrast Paizo with Palladium. Palladium's product tends to be very, very original (probably some of the least derivative RPG's of the last decades AFAIK) - and they're **horrible** as a company. I mean, seriously, look it up. They're infamously bad. Paizo makes pathfinder (and let's face it, a closer analogy to KoW hitching a ride on WHFB and/or that AoS monstrosity would be hard to even imagine) - and guess what? They do it by actually listening to their core audience and delivering a product that that core audience wants.

Paizo bad now, too?

Sorry if mr Renton apparently wee'ed in your cheerios sometime in the recent past, but let's cut at least the obviously inane arguments, shall we?

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Well, they were good enough. They weren't great. They certainly weren't on par with Renedra, Wargames Factory or Games Workshop. Mostly, this is probably due to Mantic's inexperience on sculpting minis for plastic production, but there were also spots of melty-soft detail, poor fit, and poorly placed connection points/mold split. The type of plastic is also harder than most HIPS, and responds poorly to 'plastic glue' meant for polystyrene kits (but works fine with plastic weld). They certainly weren't $4-per-mini quality plastics. I feel 5 for $10 is about the most I'd spend on the new Mantic plastics per mini.

Most companies seem to be offering up older and existing stock these days, often at some sort of promo price or deal, since those funds are going to help fund whatever their current endeavor on Kickstarter is.

I see no harm if Mantic offers up existing terrain or armies to help fund new pieces.

I've been pretty happy with their newer plastics. My biggest gripe with some of the newer pieces is how certain torsos only seemed to match up to certain pairs of legs, when I'd rather everything be a lot more flexible. A little extra variety never hurts.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Yeah, they're plastic tooling is on par with GW in most of the newest instances I've seen. It's their sculpts that I keep finding wanting. Tiny foot syndrome is an unfortunate truth for many of their figures. With a small donation equal to a cup of coffee, you could proved regular feet to one lucky miniature. In return, we'll send you.. this hand towel with our logo and your model will write you a heartfelt thank you note for bringing them the gift of regular sized feet.

...You realise there's, like, actual renders of most of the plastic stuff available, as it already was while the KS was still running?

then there's this naive doozy from your previous post:

. They've never been shy about the fact that they're riding on GWs' coat-tails and using the growing swell of players fleeing that sinking ship to float their own boats. If you think a business who builds their model around that kind of philosophy is at their core, good, honest, and to be trusted, then I have a bridge to sell you. It's right next to this toy shop in the North Pole.. fantastic view.

Right. Because making derivatives of products of complacent industry giants is bad now? Good grief, that's where most innovation comes from.
Additionally, and staying within the tabletop gaming industry here, compare and contrast Paizo with Palladium. Palladium's product tends to be very, very original (probably some of the least derivative RPG's of the last decades AFAIK) - and they're **horrible** as a company. I mean, seriously, look it up. They're infamously bad. Paizo makes pathfinder (and let's face it, a closer analogy to KoW hitching a ride on WHFB and/or that AoS monstrosity would be hard to even imagine) - and guess what? They do it by actually listening to their core audience and delivering a product that that core audience wants.

Paizo bad now, too?

Sorry if mr Renton apparently wee'ed in your cheerios sometime in the recent past, but let's cut at least the obviously inane arguments, shall we?

So.. here's the thing. I didn't say Mantic was bad. I understand the "defend the brand" type of mentality fans take I do. The problem is, a lot of fans for companies like Mantic, Reaper, GW, WotC, etc forget that these businesses have to put their bottomline first. They aren't your friend. They aren't your relatives or your bud. Just like Mr Renton did not relieve himself in my breakfast, I would assume he also has not joined you for dinner. These are all just businesses and they're all just hustling the best they can, which is getting harder with a lot more fish in the sea.

As to seeing the renders prior to deciding whether or not to purchase. Why, yes.. I am aware of that. If you look a page or three back, you'll see that I made note of my perception of that latest batch of renders we saw of the Veermyn and how it and other previews resulted in my reducing my initially planned Infestation purchase down to a smaller buy of things that are already tooled or that fit my needs. One problem people have though, is that Mantic has on occasion shown us one thing (concept art, renders, or masters) and delivered something.. less than the expectations they set. The most recent example of this is the earth elemental looking thing but there are many others.

...So suddenly what you phrased as a specific dig at mantic was apparently just a generic platitude regarding any company, ever. Right.

But keep not-quite-accusing me of arguing from preconceived notions.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Well, they were good enough. They weren't great. They certainly weren't on par with Renedra, Wargames Factory or Games Workshop. Mostly, this is probably due to Mantic's inexperience on sculpting minis for plastic production, but there were also spots of melty-soft detail, poor fit, and poorly placed connection points/mold split. The type of plastic is also harder than most HIPS, and responds poorly to 'plastic glue' meant for polystyrene kits (but works fine with plastic weld). They certainly weren't $4-per-mini quality plastics. I feel 5 for $10 is about the most I'd spend on the new Mantic plastics per mini.

They also haven't learned that a suit of armour needs to fit around the wearer. A helmet needs to be bigger than your head so that you can wear it, while the placement of joints in a segmented exoskeleton must align with those of the wearer so that the wearer's body and the armour can move together.

 AlexHolker wrote:

They also haven't learned that a suit of armour needs to fit around the wearer. A helmet needs to be bigger than your head so that you can wear it, while the placement of joints in a segmented exoskeleton must align with those of the wearer so that the wearer's body and the armour can move together.

To be fair I don't think GW have learned that either and they've been at it alot longer.

 Bolognesus wrote:
...So suddenly what you phrased as a specific dig at mantic was apparently just a generic platitude regarding any company, ever. Right.

But keep not-quite-accusing me of arguing from preconceived notions.

The thing is, my comment was, as it happens directed at Mantic. It was not directed at you. However, your response was specifically directed at me so I returned in kind. If you would like to avoid that in the future, I would advise refraining from taking shots at me, especially when the comment in question was my own musings as they relate to a public entity. What you're proposing is that people should not be allowed to express their views towards public entities if it clashes with your own. I would wonder if you are named Kim and posting from a country whose name rhymes with North Tortilla.

 AlexHolker wrote:

They also haven't learned that a suit of armour needs to fit around the wearer. A helmet needs to be bigger than your head so that you can wear it, while the placement of joints in a segmented exoskeleton must align with those of the wearer so that the wearer's body and the armour can move together.

This isn't really the place to talk about GW.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

They also haven't learned that a suit of armour needs to fit around the wearer. A helmet needs to be bigger than your head so that you can wear it, while the placement of joints in a segmented exoskeleton must align with those of the wearer so that the wearer's body and the armour can move together.

This isn't really the place to talk about GW.

lol, this is funny. Made me think of West Side Story

 MLaw wrote:

The thing is, my comment was, as it happens directed at Mantic. It was not directed at you. However, your response was specifically directed at me

Ah, this must be your first day on an internet forum. Welcome!

 .Mikes. wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

The thing is, my comment was, as it happens directed at Mantic. It was not directed at you. However, your response was specifically directed at me

Ah, this must be your first day on an internet forum. Welcome!

Hi, how's it going? Is there kool-aid? It kinda seems like there is.

They don't sell kool aid in Australia. We have beer.

 .Mikes. wrote:
They don't sell kool aid in Australia. We have beer.

Is that like Zima?

*googles zima*

"Zima is a clear, lightly carbonated, alcoholic beverage, that was made and distributed by the Coors Brewing Company. "

There is nothing in that sentence which is not an affront to humanity.

 .Mikes. wrote:
*googles zima*

"Zima is a clear, lightly carbonated, alcoholic beverage, that was made and distributed by the Coors Brewing Company. "

There is nothing in that sentence which is not an affront to humanity.

I actually liked it as a starter drink when you didn't want to actually taste the alcohol (which maybe for my slavik vodka laddled tongue wasn't perceptible) or as a "maintenance" drink when you already had a good "I can dance" buzz but didn't want to get "I love you guys! *BARF*" drunk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Additionally, and staying within the tabletop gaming industry here, compare and contrast Paizo with Palladium. Palladium's product tends to be very, very original (probably some of the least derivative RPG's of the last decades AFAIK) - and they're **horrible** as a company. I mean, seriously, look it up. They're infamously bad. Paizo makes pathfinder (and let's face it, a closer analogy to KoW hitching a ride on WHFB and/or that AoS monstrosity would be hard to even imagine) - and guess what? They do it by actually listening to their core audience and delivering a product that that core audience wants.

Did someone bash palladium? I feel like I should join in strangely but I'm fresh out of spite until the next robotech non-update.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Both enforcer kits were solid, quality plastic kits as well. So were the plague zombies. Forgefather plastics turned out solid too, from what I gather. They seem to have the plastics worked out pretty well now.

Well, they were good enough. They weren't great. They certainly weren't on par with Renedra, Wargames Factory or Games Workshop. Mostly, this is probably due to Mantic's inexperience on sculpting minis for plastic production, but there were also spots of melty-soft detail, poor fit, and poorly placed connection points/mold split. The type of plastic is also harder than most HIPS, and responds poorly to 'plastic glue' meant for polystyrene kits (but works fine with plastic weld). They certainly weren't $4-per-mini quality plastics. I feel 5 for $10 is about the most I'd spend on the new Mantic plastics per mini.

They also haven't learned that a suit of armour needs to fit around the wearer. A helmet needs to be bigger than your head so that you can wear it, while the placement of joints in a segmented exoskeleton must align with those of the wearer so that the wearer's body and the armour can move together.

Well, yeah. The designs Mantic likes these days tend not to match real life anatomy. Still, they work as robots...silly robots.