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 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Those are likely the blocking shapes to establish the masses that the sculpt will be based on. WiP means work in progress if you're unfamiliar with that particular acronym.

re- facetank : lol, well, If there's a FF face under that dozer blade, I'll be running a dozer blade. I don't care how crappy of an upgrade it is. As much as I love Thundercats, He-Man, Street Sharks, etc.. I would like to think that we, as a society may have moved past this sort of thing.

so I'm guessing that if you shoot at it from the front, you get a "Bullet Catcher" bonus since the rounds will impact on those ridges and the force will be directed internally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Those are likely the blocking shapes to establish the masses that the sculpt will be based on. WiP means work in progress if you're unfamiliar with that particular acronym.

You can only polish a turd but so much

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Of course it does, it's not finished.

Looks very close to the concept artwork though, by the time it's done I'm sure it will look miles better.

That's assuming you like Space Dwarf Face-Tanks using a chassis derived from the most competitive robot shape on Battlebots.

 judgedoug wrote:
so I'm guessing that if you shoot at it from the front, you get a "Bullet Catcher" bonus since the rounds will impact on those ridges and the force will be directed internally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Those are likely the blocking shapes to establish the masses that the sculpt will be based on. WiP means work in progress if you're unfamiliar with that particular acronym.

You can only polish a turd but so much

Yeah, I'm not very impressed with any of the tanks/vehicles shown so far. I guess I'm not the target audience though.

 Alex C wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Of course it does, it's not finished.

Looks very close to the concept artwork though, by the time it's done I'm sure it will look miles better.

That's assuming you like Space Dwarf Face-Tanks using a chassis derived from the most competitive robot shape on Battlebots.

lol, that pretty much sums up everything I was thinking when I was trying to decide if I like the tank or not
*contemplates using a Tamiya motor kit to turn the FF tank into a competitive robot*

 Alex C wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Of course it does, it's not finished.

Looks very close to the concept artwork though, by the time it's done I'm sure it will look miles better.

That's assuming you like Space Dwarf Face-Tanks using a chassis derived from the most competitive robot shape on Battlebots.

I love space dwarfs, but I hate 80's cartoon tanks unless piloted by a HISS Driver.

The best sci-fi is grounded in realism - this is why the USCM armor and weaponry and support vehicles are so iconic and loved nearly universally 30 years after Aliens came out.
The M577 APC didn't have a bald eagle face on it and the Cheyenne Dropship didn't literally have a gaint boot with which to stomp bugs.

Facetank needs a revision - by dragging the 3D file to the recycle bin, and then basing a Dwarf tank off a chunky modern tank design like the Leopard 2 or Leclerc.

And no dozer blades.

I don't mind the Forgefather tank. It's not outstanding, but it does not offend me the way the dropship does.

It doesn't look like they made any changes after they asked for feedback - this looks very much like this and not like this.

EDIT:
I do agree with Judgedoug that a serious attempt at a sci-fi tank would have been better, though. You could still have the wedge-shaped hull with a bulldozer-like plate in front for digging into a hull-down position and for the improved protection provided by spaced armour, you'd just have to reconsider the greebling.

I would love to see them go a little less conventional or at least more modern with their tank. Maybe I'll just buy some cheapo S-Tanks and add lasers.

The face tank kind of reminds me of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I always figured that the Forge Fathers were a fairly vain bunch, so the face motif doesn't surprise me.

I would've gone the Dust route with walking tanks.

Not enough games have walking tanks. Just literally armored turrets on legs.

Maybe what I really want are just 28mm Dougram Tequila Gunners?

eell, I'm pretty sure Takara did make some 1/48 kits of those. I just hope that if they get a dropship, that they don't make it a faceship as well.

 judgedoug wrote:
so I'm guessing that if you shoot at it from the front, you get a "Bullet Catcher" bonus since the rounds will impact on those ridges and the force will be directed internally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

Those are likely the blocking shapes to establish the masses that the sculpt will be based on. WiP means work in progress if you're unfamiliar with that particular acronym.

You can only polish a turd but so much

Fill it with sand and use it as a doorstop?

I won't call it "face tank" it's doorstop tank to me.

 Barzam wrote:
eell, I'm pretty sure Takara did make some 1/48 kits of those. I just hope that if they get a dropship, that they don't make it a faceship as well.

Now I'm picturing a giant metal SpaceDwarf head landing and the armored SpaceDwarfs running out of a tongue shaped ramp out of the mouth shaped exit hatch.

Here it is preparing for the troopers to exit:

If they made a Zardoz, o'd have to own several.

Perhaps if you collect the tanks from each faction, they can be combined to form Voltron?

 judgedoug wrote:
That looks simply terrible.

This. A thousand times, This.

I am fine being in the minority, but I think the FF tank looks awesome. The design reflects the armor that some of their models wear fairly accurately, in my opinion. I see the 'face' design that some of you are referring to, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as it's made out to be.

Then again, I am in the camp that thinks every Space Marine vehicle looks silly, and every Sigmarite figure is ugly. I don't want vehicles that look like ones you can easily find in other lines. To each their own, and all that.

To me, part of the reason it's acceptable is that these guys are meant to be alien to our way of thought. If it looked like a tank designed by humans that would be kinda silly. It also needs to look like it could come up from a subterranean tunnel system. The face thing.. eh.. when I paint mine there will be runes and crap all over so you'll not see any of that. I think a great portion of that will rest on the way the vehicle is painted and if the modeler festoons the tank with gear and other assorted crap like I tend to.

If it were coming from underground, I would expect no turret or a retractable one; that would make the wedge shape functional as the tank could plow through tunnel blockages, etc.

I really like it (assuming it will match the detail of the sketch)

Update Warpath Alpha rules

http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Warpath-KS-Alpha.pdf

feedback thread

https://manticforum.com/forum/warpath/warpath-rules-discussion/249300-warpath-alpha-feedback-thread-v2-kickstarter-edition

Discussion Points

Unit Hubs: These rules were written before the Firefight edition was conceived, and therefore contain a few compromises with regard to how units move around the table – hubs and unit coherency and how they interact with line of sight, model placement etc. We know that there are clunky elements to these rules, and are still working on them.
As a mass-battle game, the rules may be slicker if it used some sort of unit stands, like Kings of War or other smaller scale games out there like Dropzone Commander. However, some people were not keen on the idea, and so to cater for as many people as possible the rules were written to allow for individual model placement.
Now that we have Firefight, we do have the option to make Warpath use these unit stands – those who aren’t keen on the aesthetic have another option instead. Using stands as a core part of the rules means that the rules on hubs and unit positioning can be massively simplified, with knock-on streamlining effects to other areas of the rules.
What are your thoughts?

Points Values: Please be aware that these points values have had minimal testing. They are educated estimates, and as such, some of them may be quite wrong. Once we finalise the core rules and go to open beta, these will refined to properly balance the game.

Army Selection Rules: These have not yet been written, and will come once the rules are solidified. For now just use what you’ve got that feels balanced. We are also aware that the unit upgrades are a little inconsistent – these will be clarified later.

 Mort wrote:
I am fine being in the minority, but I think the FF tank looks awesome. The design reflects the armor that some of their models wear fairly accurately, in my opinion. I see the 'face' design that some of you are referring to, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as it's made out to be.

Then again, I am in the camp that thinks every Space Marine vehicle looks silly, and every Sigmarite figure is ugly. I don't want vehicles that look like ones you can easily find in other lines. To each their own, and all that.

What military designs it's armored vehicles to _match_ the infantryman's uniform? *barf*

The problem is that the available "space tanks" are all terrible - 40k tanks... what else? Antenociti's Workshop has drastically thinned their lines, the few tanks that Khurusan makes are super expensive, crappy manufacturers like Grendel resin are all 40k knock offs. And i's hard to find 1/48 Kitech/Zhengdefu stuff nowadays. We have no good plastic 28mm scale sci fi tanks.

But you're correct, Space Marine vehicles are pretty much gak. (but Sigmarites are awesome)

 DaveC wrote:
Update Warpath Alpha rules

Discussion Points

Unit Hubs: These rules were written before the Firefight edition was conceived, and therefore contain a few compromises with regard to how units move around the table – hubs and unit coherency and how they interact with line of sight, model placement etc. We know that there are clunky elements to these rules, and are still working on them.
As a mass-battle game, the rules may be slicker if it used some sort of unit stands, like Kings of War or other smaller scale games out there like Dropzone Commander. However, some people were not keen on the idea, and so to cater for as many people as possible the rules were written to allow for individual model placement.
Now that we have Firefight, we do have the option to make Warpath use these unit stands – those who aren’t keen on the aesthetic have another option instead. Using stands as a core part of the rules means that the rules on hubs and unit positioning can be massively simplified, with knock-on streamlining effects to other areas of the rules.
What are your thoughts?

Points Values: Please be aware that these points values have had minimal testing. They are educated estimates, and as such, some of them may be quite wrong. Once we finalise the core rules and go to open beta, these will refined to properly balance the game.

Army Selection Rules: These have not yet been written, and will come once the rules are solidified. For now just use what you’ve got that feels balanced. We are also aware that the unit upgrades are a little inconsistent – these will be clarified later.

http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Warpath-KS-Alpha.pdf

Very, very pleased to see the "Break track" replaced with a single-value Nerve stat.

The new statline will make things easier for 40k converts too.

Speed = Move
Acc = BS/ WS
Def = T/ Save
Res = W
Ner = LD

Roughly speaking, of course!

I personally will probably convert my turret to be on rails like the APC from Aliens (unless there's a back hatch).

About other sci-fi tanks (I tried to stay away from dieselpunk)

Antenociti has said the old tanks are coming back "soon".
Khurasan's are expensive but they do exist. Existing and being expensive are two different things.

Pig Iron Productions has an APC. I kinda like it but it isn't for everyone.
Puppetswar has some nice sci-fi vehicles. IMO they "can" be used for 40k but depart that aesthetic pretty well.
Scotia Grendel's tanks are a 40k knockoff? Whaaaa? The tanks for Void are a little closer to 25mm scale but they are fairly unique IMO. Dated yes, but unique.
Daemonscape has a bunch of sci-fi vehicles. A lot of them (most) feel extremely old-school but I've seen some of these modeled and painted up to a nice standard and they can look alright.
Prodos - Yeah, there are a few that are similar to the 40k aesthetic but last time I looked I didn't see any real clones. That massive tank for I think Bauhaus is very dieselpunk though.
Titanforge - If/when they deliver, I will be thrilled. Their tanks are usable for 40k analogs but IMO they have a nicer more sci-fi (less WW2) look.
Old Crow - This guy is still in business. It's a bit of a hoop to order from him but I got my son some of his tanks and even though they're old, they are really well done.
Empress models - Not sci-fi but modern. 28mm scale resin military vehicles that don't feel like ww2.


Personally, out of the above, not many of the offerings have really shattered expectations. Puppetswar and Antenociti have probably some of the most "sci-fi" out of that maybe TF is right behind them if they get theirs released. To me, that's part of the reason I like the Forgefather tank we've seen here. It does depart from a lot of the expected design norms. It doesn't feel like just another take on redesigning a WW2 or modern tank to me. It feels completely made up and sci-fi. However, yeah.. there are some design elements that need to be refined. Like a lot of Mantic products and designs, it lacks subtlety. It's very much "hmf, here it is". Little touches like places for fuel drums, lock boxes, maintenance panels, fuel caps, sand channels, stowage, etc would go a long way. My biggest gripe isn't with the shape or theory behind it, it's that the actual design process seems to have stopped past the basic drawings. It doesn't feel like they imagined themselves sitting in this tank and operating it so much as them figuring out a gimmicky look and running with that.

Seeing that list makes me realize that I will be buying all the Mantic tanks just because they will be plastic and (most likely) much more affordable.

Most of my sci fi tanks and/or walkers are from Dust, AT-43, and Robogear. I'll probably get the Dreamforge HoverStuG when it comes out, but that's because I'm already invested in their Star Wars Space nazi aesthetic.


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 MLaw wrote:
My biggest gripe isn't with the shape or theory behind it, it's that the actual design process seems to have stopped past the basic drawings. It doesn't feel like they imagined themselves sitting in this tank and operating it so much as them figuring out a gimmicky look and running with that.

This seems to be a trend all across the hobby. Mantic is just running a little farther with it.

Perhaps they can fit in a line about the Corporations hiring graphic designers to design their vehicles for a specific psychological effect, such as branding. "Look out! That's an Enforcer(TM) Dropship!"

I own exactly zero space machines of the future.

I will happily partake of this Kickstarter since all these mobile head shaped vehicles will match with the corresponding ground troops.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Seeing that list makes me realize that I will be buying all the Mantic tanks just because they will be plastic and (most likely) much more affordable.

Most of my sci fi tanks and/or walkers are from Dust, AT-43, and Robogear. I'll probably get the Dreamforge HoverStuG when it comes out, but that's because I'm already invested in their Star Wars Space nazi aesthetic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:
My biggest gripe isn't with the shape or theory behind it, it's that the actual design process seems to have stopped past the basic drawings. It doesn't feel like they imagined themselves sitting in this tank and operating it so much as them figuring out a gimmicky look and running with that.

This seems to be a trend all across the hobby. Mantic is just running a little farther with it.

Perhaps they can fit in a line about the Corporations hiring graphic designers to design their vehicles for a specific psychological effect, such as branding. "Look out! That's an Enforcer(TM) Dropship!"

Yeah, the main reason I posted that list was so people could draw the comparisons to what Mantic is showing. I spent a lot of time researching the different sci-fi tanks out there and there's definitely more than I listed. Mantic is steering clear (mostly) of the dieselpunk/ww2 aesthetic so yeah.. I tried to steer the list that direction too. From the go I've thought Mantic has had a more video game look and I like that a lot but if they got in there and put a little more polish on their rules, designs, etc then they would tip over that line they keep toeing. As an example.. I really like the Industria Mechanica stuff, and I see that potential in Mantic but they keep getting so close and then just being like "eh screw it, that's good enough".

I see from the new army list that Plague have a TAD-65 Hornet dropship so there's a second dropship to be funded in the KS I wonder if that's just a repurposed Corporation Dropship or something unique to the Plague.

The 4 army lists present would be a good indication of where they want to start so hopefully HIPS 3rd Gens will be done as the other 3 armies all have HIPS core troops now. I'd guess Asterians might be 5th in line leaving the Rebs even further out. Better to get the first 4 done entirely than partial armies floating around for 5 or 6 armies.

 MLaw wrote:
Yeah, the main reason I posted that list was so people could draw the comparisons to what Mantic is showing. I spent a lot of time researching the different sci-fi tanks out there and there's definitely more than I listed. Mantic is steering clear (mostly) of the dieselpunk/ww2 aesthetic so yeah.. I tried to steer the list that direction too. From the go I've thought Mantic has had a more video game look and I like that a lot but if they got in there and put a little more polish on their rules, designs, etc then they would tip over that line they keep toeing. As an example.. I really like the Industria Mechanica stuff, and I see that potential in Mantic but they keep getting so close and then just being like "eh screw it, that's good enough".

I'm intimiately familiar with that list, actually, because I've been collecting near-future/sci-fi minis and vehicles for years. Most of my collection is Antenociti's Workshop, at least 15-20 of their tanks, vehicles, and APC's, to go along with T-80's, Leopard 2A6, and other MBT's that will most assuredly be used for another 20+ years (for near future conflicts). Interestingly I bought Mantic's Enforcers in restic when they came out because they match the AW functional yet sci fi aesthetic quite well... so I was hoping Mantic would just hire AW to design their vehicles. Sadly that is not the case.

Well you haven't seen an Enforcer tank yet, only the FF and Asterian, so maybe the Enforcer tank will be as good as the dropship