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I thought some of that stuff was left slightly nebulous. Like if it's metal we may change to plastic if we get enough demand, kind of thing.

But yeah material changes are kind of...something...

I think I like the new recon enforcer dude, though it does look different from the first one that people also seemed to like.

Shipping in feb now as they wait for the new stuff, oh well.

They shouldve really said something about the material right at the end of the pledgemanager. See which models are popular, maybe poll the customers about which material theyd prefer their models to be in and give refunds/allow them to change their choices if they disagree.

Hmm I wonder if the 'loose' stuff with the HIPS forgefathers is actually going to be HIPS too,

clipping all those individual bits would be a pain, but if the were done in 'sprueless' PVC/restic/DS plastic then the machine could pop them right out.....

of course that would mean superglue rather than plastic cement for assembly

I actually asked Mantic for board game plastic models in DZI because I was so pleased with Mars Attacks, and they said it was completely out of the question.

Board game plastic I'm fine with in Dungeon Saga, it's perfect for that sort of thing. Board game plastic at resin prices for wargames miniatures, in a last minute material swap, not so much.

MaxT wrote:
Board game plastic I'm fine with in Dungeon Saga, it's perfect for that sort of thing. Board game plastic at resin prices for wargames miniatures, in a last minute material swap, not so much.

Thanks, MaxT, I think you hit the nail on the head. In all honesty, I'm not completely against boardgame plastic in all circumstances. I also don't mind moving metal to plastic dependent on order quantities. But pledging with high quality, higher priced resin in mind and getting boardgame plastic minis instead is pretty crummy. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any mention of resin being swapped out for boardgame plastic being a possibility dependent on order quantities, either.

The resin minis were draws for the whole campaign, some of them intended to be exclusive luxury items. Dungeon Saga itself stands as proof that boardgame plastic minis don't hold detail as well as resin does, and that resin minis are valued more highly. If you don't like resin, you're good, but that's not really a defense of Mantic's behavior on this, it's just saying it doesn't affect you particularly.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hmm I wonder if the 'loose' stuff with the HIPS forgefathers is actually going to be HIPS too,

clipping all those individual bits would be a pain, but if the were done in 'sprueless' PVC/restic/DS plastic then the machine could pop them right out.....

of course that would mean superglue rather than plastic cement for assembly

The sprue that the clipped parts are from was shown at the open day it's definitely HIPS it looks like the sprue is to long to fit in the cases so they have to clip them to package them and make them fit. Of more concern is the reduced number of heavy weapons and flamers as they can't fit a squads worth on the sprue now you have to combine several sprues which probably won't be an issue for most people as they will have multiples to hand.



Sigh so much for no PVC metal to PVC doesn't bother me to much as Mantics metals are hit and miss quality wise but I'm not happy about the loss of resins and for price paid for the larger resins they should really be doubling up like the Strider by way of compensation

I think we're all used to DaveC's tendency to get over-emotional about small things and write florid, fire-and-brimstone critiques of Mantic's decisions. But I always write terse, objective summations that get right to the heart of the matter. So if I'm complaining, something is definitely amiss.

Whoops. I think I meant that in reverse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I actually asked Mantic for board game plastic models in DZI because I was so pleased with Mars Attacks

(Victorian melodrama actress voice) Oh, how could you? After all the KS campaigns we've been through together? And Bob? Et tu, Bobbe?


Guys, it's Thanksgiving day. We should definitely spend it on important things, like complaining about Mantic's material switches.

I know all this matters from a certain perspective, but don't ever take a step back from that perspective and look at yourself and what you're saying, like I just did. Because then it all starts looking very inconsequential and silly. I think I just experienced a sudden, vicious attack of maturity. Hideous.

And if it wasn't apparent, no offense was intended to DaveC, that was just me making fun of myself. Peace, DaveC.

Did I miss where they released a Firefight Alpha? Pretty sure during the KS they promised it would be up shortly after the KS finished but.. yeah.. no.. unless I missed it, they haven't delivered on that.
Today, I am thankful I didn't back the WP KS.

No worries Vermonter I got it (after 2 or 3 rereads)

I guess I should post the images of the as yet unseen minis

Blaine on Jetbike

N7-117, Forward Observer

Rebel Leader:

Ogre Terminator with Mini-gun


Not a fan of Ogres head - I'll have to swap on a spare DBX ogre head.

So I take it the Dust guys only produce board game plastic? The update just says it's they who are producing them and that they are the same people who did the DS stuff, not that they are doing them in boardgame plastic. That said if that's the only material they produce (I'm not familiar with any of their output- notwithstanding an Operation Babylon kickstarter that I've not seen anything from and gave up on long ago- so I genuinely don't know) then fair enough. I'm pretty happy with my Dungeon Saga figures and the less metal I have to deal with, the better, but this should have been something people were made aware of long ago.

I love the Ogre though. For some reason I'm getting two and I've already given my DBX one a weapon too, so I'm pleased with the look.

I won't comment on the material changes, since I wasn't in on this Kickstarter and so have no horse in the race, though it does make me a little concerned about the Warpath KS I went in on recently.

If anyone is unhappy with the new sculpt for the N7-117, Forward Observer let me know though, since I am hoping to get one and would gladly pay to take one off someone's hands.

As for the upcoming IP, I am really hoping it is Fallout.

N7-117? Heh.

Is he going to be retail? I might be picking him up for painting purposes.

That Ogre could also make a good Super Mutant for This is Not a Test...

Boardgame plastic replacing metal and resin? Are they insane? Really glad i only purchased HIPS sprues now... Jesus Christ.

I'm wondering if the Ogre's veil was inspired by Forge World's masked 40K Ogryn renegades.



Regardless, it seems odd to me, but I didn't get one anyway.

On a positive note, I think that Rebs leader has a subtle, effective pose - the kind I'm not used to seeing from computer sculpted minis. I'm a little confused though as to whether she's going to be metal or is being changed to plastic. I think she'll be metal - I think Mantic put her and the Ogre on at the end to show the last previously unseen model renders, not as part of the boardgame plastic parade that preceded them.

Either way, I'm disinterested in metal enough that I don't much care.

I don't think I pledged for anything other than a Lockdown pledge and the ogre, so I'm not sure how I feel about all the changes, as I didn't pay any extra specifically for the affected models. They were all included with my pledge.

I shall reserve passing judgement for when we get more clear details on what all these changes are actually going to be- what kinds of plastics, how the price will be affected, how many models we will actually receive... stuff like that.

Maybe this will result in the Aberration and Chem Thrower kits being larger? A really HUGE Aberration could be cool, and if Mantic wants to toss in an extra or two as a "We're sorry we messed up" type deal, I think my problems with the material won't be as bad...

Another material swap out after the fact?

I want to say this is hard to believe but...

I think I'm all set with Mantic now.

I feel like the bait and switch is becoming Mantic's go to move. Whatever this new amazing IP is, I don't think I will be pledging for it. Not sure how anyone could put much trust in Mantic with the way they've been doing business lately.

Christ, I avoided this ks because of all the metal, now its a big ol plastic party

I have a few experiences with Dust stuff -

several units of Laser Grenadiers that I converted and painted to be ONI Korps units for AT-43, and a unit of German command to use for a pulp Bolt Action game.

A couple vehicles and suits that I bought to use for other things.

The laser grenadiers are multipart plastic (though Dust stuff came preassembled and preprimed) and highly detailed. The command set was the same - very sharp pristine details. the vehicles are very high quality hard plastic kits like the AT-43 walkers.

People keep saying boardgame plastic but that is not my experience at all with Dust.

Is that what Mantic has switched to?

I've attached screenshots of a Mantic zombie (arguably one of Mantic's best plastics, with Warlord German accessories) and the Dust figure for comparison.

I guess we disagree, Judge Doug. (It's a first!) Having just received my heavily discounted Dust figures and vehicles from FFG, I'm happy I didn't pay more for them. I find the figures more rubbery and their detail inferior to Mantic's restic, and the vehicles lighter and more brittle than those used in AT-43. My first impression was surprise that Dust Studios ever got away with charging full price for these, and I'm not surprised FFG is dumping them at bargain prices now.

 Vermonter wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Bioptic wrote:
Torrent of abuse incoming! Mantic has released a Deadzone update indicating that most of the metal/resin stuff from the Kickstarter is now being produced in the Dungeon Saga plastics:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/deadzone-infestation-sci-fi-skirmish-game/posts/1426725

If those are the same quality as the Mars Attacks plastics, and if they adjust the price accordingly, then I will be happy with this decision.

Edit: not very happy. Just slightly happy.

At last we violently disagree! Let slip the dogs of war!

OK, not violently. Here's my take:

Converting metal to plastic: a good thing for me.

Converting resin to Dust Studios PVC: Yeah, I just got some Dust figures at the FFG sale delivered, and they're fairly poor quality. Passable, but I'd take Mantic's restic over the Dust PVC any day. Also, from what I've seen of the Dungeon Saga plastics online, I'm not impressed. That's not the same as seeing them in person, though.

Overall reaction: Some of this benefits me (less metal), some of it is a pretty major disappointment (losing resin to low-quality PVC). But overall, a last minute switch of this scope, on a KS project as recent as this one after they're supposed to know better? They've lost a lot of my trust. I think from this point on I'll stick with the obvious HIPS kits from Mantic - the ones they can't change at the last minute without shooting themselves in the foot - and that's it. Starting with the Warpath PM, which I've already pledged $100 unassigned dollars on. All that's going to $20/20 HIPS deals and nothing else will be added.

I know Mantic have been trying to watch their budgeting more carefully, but this is ridiculous. If they stand to lose money or be inconvenienced, the customer definitely comes second now. Sheesh.

Whatever the new IP is, I think I'll wait a year after it's released and pick it up on clearance this time. Scratch that. It'll be in boardgame plastic and I'll skip it entirely.

Oh, and for everybody who enjoys kicking MEdge like a dog? Guess which company doesn't pull garbage like this on their customers, or manufacture any figures in half-@ssed materials? Guess where I'll be spending more money from this point on?

Finally, some drama in this thread!

Actually, my post was more of a kneejerk "Plastic: superior/metal: inferior" reaction. Really, I had been waiting for the Mantic Kickstarter's other shoe to drop, and now that it has the tension has melted away.

Obviously it's not a good thing that Mantic broke yet another promise. I can imagine how many people will feel betrayed that Mantic took their money without giving what they paid for. It's par for the course and it's gak. I already lost my trust for Mantic, and am firmly into the "no kissing on the mouth/money's on the nightstand" relationship with them. They clearly screwed over a huge number of people with their Mantic antics, and show no shame about it.

I'm pretty much done with ordering anything but 20 for $20 deals from Mantic KS's. (And Blaines. Damn it, I don't even know why I want them!)


As for the DUST plastic, I haven't met a DUST miniature that wasn't worth its (heavily discounted) price. I like the material and I love their vehicles. The Mars Attacks minis were good enough for me, especially the Tiger Corps, so if these minis hit that level of quality I'll simmer down. Lots of people dislike those minis or find their quality lacking, though, so Mantic should really have thought twice about this decision.


Oh.Hmmm. I just remembered that I paid 15 bucks for that Blaine on jetbike thinking it would be resin and I'm livid. Sure, I actually like plastic even more as a material, but somehow I feel cheated.

Maybe they should give us two Blaines.


PS: I'm still excited for Medge. Plastic robots and aliens? Still want 'em. They even have a card game and novels. If they somehow got an Adventure Game Book into print, that would be checkmate.

 Vermonter wrote:
I guess we disagree, Judge Doug. (It's a first!) Having just received my heavily discounted Dust figures and vehicles from FFG, I'm happy I didn't pay more for them. I find the figures more rubbery and their detail inferior to Mantic's restic, and the vehicles lighter and more brittle than those used in AT-43. My first impression was surprise that Dust Studios ever got away with charging full price for these, and I'm not surprised FFG is dumping them at bargain prices now.

Weird, dunno. The Laser Grenadiers matched perfectly into the ONI army and I haven't had troubles with the couple vehicles I bought. If they're anything like the quality of that Dust evil nazi doctor dude I posted, I'm much happier with that than getting metals. But I'm super pissed about the resin. But now I can't remember what I pledged for. The $110 level ish and maybe one or two add ons.

Hmm, I liked the plastic in DS so I'm okay with replacing metal with it. Given a choice between resin, restic and boardgame plastic, I'd take resin followed by boardgame plastic and then restic.

OTOH, I don't think I got any resin at all.

 Vermonter wrote:

(Victorian melodrama actress voice) Oh, how could you? After all the KS campaigns we've been through together? And Bob? Et tu, Bobbe?

No, you were right. Now is not the time for cooler heads to prevail. I had just shot off a terse reply before stuffing the turkey so I hadn't had a chance to get properly Dakka'd. Now I'm all a-froth.


The word "resin" definitely affected my purchasing calculations, encouraging me to spend more on certain single figures than I should have. Mantic used customer psychology in effect to 'haggle a higher price' on those minis, apparently a new variation on the fake stretch goals or the rope-a-dope single vehicle/triple vehicle combo. I thought I was cynical about Mantic's manipulative kickstarter tactics before, but this has exposed me as a veritable doe-eyed babe.

Well played, Mantic doucheholes. Well played.

Oh dear Mantic. I think they could have guessed the general response to this but went ahead anyway. I really do feel for the backers on this one, a switch to what is generally regarded as an inferior material is a real no no.

And working with Dust? Their recent record is hardly exemplary.

Dust Studios is the manufacturing arm of the whole Dust operation. Lots of companies work with them.

Conan's plastics are all being done by them. Don't remember people complaining too much about the quality of those. Now if they'd have just offered some of those sculpts in resin as well... but that's a different story.

Heck, doesn't CMON use them as well?

Dust the game was a whole different cluster of a mess with what happened with that Kickstarter...

But we are pretty sure that these Dust plastics will be the Dungeon Saga "boardgame" "mmmm bendy" type. I really hope Mantic do something to make it up to backers.

I was never a big fan of "Mantic: Almost" but they seem to be trying to live up to that epithet with every new project. I think a lot of the issues stem from over promising and under delivering, seems to me like they need a more concrete plan and budget before they embark on any Kickstarter.

This is a pretty cool effect though:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Dust Studios is the manufacturing arm of the whole Dust operation. Lots of companies work with them.

Conan's plastics are all being done by them. Don't remember people complaining too much about the quality of those. Now if they'd have just offered some of those sculpts in resin as well... but that's a different story.

Heck, doesn't CMON use them as well?

Dust the game was a whole different cluster of a mess with what happened with that Kickstarter...

X-Wing is produced by them as well iirc.