Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

@Kain

In the Canadian army we had a thing that look much like a microwave pizza (and about has bad) that had the same fonction. One of my friend had the most terrible constipation issue because it. I still pity him even if it happened 6 years ago. I really pity Scions who are told to eat nutrient paste a lot. the stomach cramps they must have are certainly a thing.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Recycling urine to water is one thing, but solid waste is another. If they're efficient in digesting that food in the first place, there shouldn't be much worth bothering with to recycle.

And yeah, the sheer amount of poop they'd generate would be a deal in and of itself

Perhaps the digestive system is modified to be like that of reptiles? They're pretty damn efficient in terms of waste conservation. It's why reptiles can go on so much less water than mammals of the equivalent mass.

@Kain

It's also because they are cold blooded. 60 to 80% of what you eat serves to maintain your temperature stable.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Recycling urine to water is one thing, but solid waste is another. If they're efficient in digesting that food in the first place, there shouldn't be much worth bothering with to recycle. As for nutrient paste, I'm sure they have something, but it's never mentioned or talked about, and they'd still have to be eating a gak-ton of it.

And yeah, the sheer amount of poop they'd generate would be a deal in and of itself

... then route it into the fusion reactor on their backs. If it burns, it can power the armor and all its systems. Problem solved.

epronovost wrote:
@Kain

It's also because they are cold blooded. 60 to 80% of what you eat serves to maintain your temperature stable.

No they're more efficient with liquid waste because their method of getting rid of it makes use of much less water than mammals. Reptiles and Birds don't pee out streams of water like mammals do.

 Kain wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Kain

It's also because they are cold blooded. 60 to 80% of what you eat serves to maintain your temperature stable.

No they're more efficient with liquid waste because their method of getting rid of it makes use of much less water than mammals. Reptiles and Birds don't pee out streams of water like mammals do.

Lizards do... They pee to release this white stuff every day along with a stream of watery pee. Their urine is not colored or smelly however, but they pee a lot. Mine is only 10 weeks old and it pees a surprising amount. They dont poop too often though. A lot as in Once a day for pee.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kain wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Kain

It's also because they are cold blooded. 60 to 80% of what you eat serves to maintain your temperature stable.

No they're more efficient with liquid waste because their method of getting rid of it makes use of much less water than mammals. Reptiles and Birds don't pee out streams of water like mammals do.

Lizards do... They pee to release this white stuff every day along with a stream of watery pee. Their urine is not colored or smelly however, but they pee a lot. Mine is only 10 weeks old and it pees a surprising amount. They dont poop too often though.

In terms of absolute water used Lizards are much more efficient with water than mammals are. It's why reptiles tend to be more successful in hot deserts than mammals and is theorized to be one of the big reasons why archosaurs displaced synapsids as the dominant life form during the recovery process following the Permian extinction event. Pangaea was ungodly hot and dry and whomever could take the heat best and conserve precious water best will survive longest.

In times of plenty of course; reptiles will drink a lot more than they actually have to just like any animal would. And captivity is quite literally the easy life since your reptile will always have water on hand and will thus drink whenever slightly thirsty, whereas in the wild it might have to go for much longer periods without water.

epronovost wrote:
@Kain

In the Canadian army we had a thing that look much like a microwave pizza (and about has bad) that had the same fonction. One of my friend had the most terrible constipation issue because it. I still pity him even if it happened 6 years ago. I really pity Scions who are told to eat nutrient paste a lot. the stomach cramps they must have are certainly a thing.

The new ration have included gum to help with bowel movement.

 Kain wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kain wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Kain

It's also because they are cold blooded. 60 to 80% of what you eat serves to maintain your temperature stable.

No they're more efficient with liquid waste because their method of getting rid of it makes use of much less water than mammals. Reptiles and Birds don't pee out streams of water like mammals do.

Lizards do... They pee to release this white stuff every day along with a stream of watery pee. Their urine is not colored or smelly however, but they pee a lot. Mine is only 10 weeks old and it pees a surprising amount. They dont poop too often though.

In terms of absolute water used Lizards are much more efficient with water than mammals are. It's why reptiles tend to be more successful in hot deserts than mammals and is theorized to be one of the big reasons why archosaurs displaced synapsids as the dominant life form during the recovery process following the Permian extinction event. Pangaea was ungodly hot and dry and whomever could take the heat best and conserve precious water best will survive longest.

In times of plenty of course; reptiles will drink a lot more than they actually have to just like any animal would. And captivity is quite literally the easy life since your reptile will always have water on hand and will thus drink whenever slightly thirsty, whereas in the wild it might have to go for much longer periods without water.

That is true, my main point was that the lack of water isn't ideal though.

I don't think a Space Marine can have a similar digestive system as a Reptile though. I am not entirely sure how much the digestive system effects an animal, but reptiles as far as I have seen act and behave very differently (being cold blooded is the big example) than the warm blooded animals we have. I have very high doubts that you could take the best of both without the draw backs of either one.

 Vaktathi wrote:
As for nutrient paste, I'm sure they have something, but it's never mentioned or talked about, and they'd still have to be eating a gak-ton of it.

I've read about this, actually.

SM eat some kind of hyper-nutritious porridge that tastes incredibly dull but is perfectly functional.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As for nutrient paste, I'm sure they have something, but it's never mentioned or talked about, and they'd still have to be eating a gak-ton of it.

I've read about this, actually.

SM eat some kind of hyper-nutritious porridge that tastes incredibly dull but is perfectly functional.

It's something you'd figure they'd have, but I honestly cannot recall anything where it's mentioned. Someone out there have something they can point to?

I think I have read it in more than one place, but the only one I can name off the top of my head is the Ultramarines Omnibus.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
And 1 million marines existing in 40k isn't really stupid. Essentially, SMs are the superhuman beefed up fully armored badasses equivalent to todays Americas Navy Seals. They operate in tiny numbers but they're extremely productable and have been the deciding factor in many engagements. 1,000 marines with millions of IG can quite easily take an entire planet. Guard fight the huge battles and take ground while marines strike and destroy command nodes, rip away spaceports and all those seemingly small things that ultimately win a conflict.

IG elite units like Stormtroopers are an equivalent of modern special forces. IG itself is an equivalent of RL massed elite units such as Waffen SS.

I'd say Stormtroopers are better than our present day special forces. While our present day spec ops are the best of the best they've still probably only been in the military 10-20 years if that. Scions will have been raised, trained and even brainwashed to be the perfect soldier from childhood.

Taffy17 wrote:
I'd say Stormtroopers are better than our present day special forces. While our present day spec ops are the best of the best they've still probably only been in the military 10-20 years if that. Scions will have been raised, trained and even brainwashed to be the perfect soldier from childhood.

Modern day spec ops can't survive falling from space.

Well...maybe everyone except the airborne Spetsnaz. You never know with the Airborne Spetsnaz.

I could believe it from upper atmosphere cause they do something similar in Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwI-Iz-Zwxs (just the first minute but its cool)

But falling from space? Tempestus Scion outfits don't look that airtight.

I'm gonna assume they use their grav chutes to slow decent which seems reasonable.

Where did you read that?

Taffy17 wrote:
I could believe it from upper atmosphere cause they do something similar in Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwI-Iz-Zwxs (just the first minute but its cool)

But falling from space? Tempestus Scion outfits don't look that airtight.

I'm gonna assume they use their grav chutes to slow decent which seems reasonable.

Where did you read that?

Codex Tempestus Scions, it is one of the timeline events. I remember it because the Scions were ejected out of their ships' airlocks and presumably made it through atmospheric entry unscathed with just their carapace armours and some specially made shielding devices and made planet fall using grav-chutes, because the planet's group defenses are capable of shooting down Flesh Tearer drop pods and force thunderhawks to retreat. It's a cool mental image but it is a bit hard for me to think a men can survive the atmospheric drag and heating with what they had, then again I'm sure what the shielding is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S.: P50, The Chainsword and the Knives

Ahh I'm tempted to get that book but I've heard bad things about it.
I always thought spec ops were cooler than super soldiers and ODSTs were cooler than Spartans though.

Skitarii... are more than capable of being as powerful as Space Marines on an individual basis (Bionic marines lose no power from the conversion), but I suspect they would be held back by logistical concerns - a Skitarii is not as fuel-efficient as a Marine, as it's still working with human systems on some levels, and requires multiple fuel sources (ingested nutrients as well as chemical reactants).

Taffy17 wrote:
Ahh I'm tempted to get that book but I've heard bad things about it.
I always thought spec ops were cooler than super soldiers and ODSTs were cooler than Spartans though.

I love both, so I always do me some Raven Guard on the side.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Skitarii... are more than capable of being as powerful as Space Marines on an individual basis

Unless you are talking big stuff (Kataphron and above) I do not consider that very likely...

I said they were capable of it, not that all of them are. :p

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I said they were capable of it, not that all of them are. :p

If they are some DAoT Magos on Mars, sure.

Otherwise, dubious to say the least.

Whilst I have given what I believe to be a valid defence of why marines could be that fast. Yeah, I totally concede that I have no idea how you would fuel such a thing.

The only explanation could possibly be that they are changed so much on a cellular level, that they can yield significantly more energy per gram of food that average humans can, but well.... That would start breaking the rules of chemistry so yeah.

How you would feed such a thing I have no idea, maybe they are linked up directly to their fusion reactors haha.

I wonder how long a marine could last on the cannibalism of their own protein mass?

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The only explanation could possibly be that they are changed so much on a cellular level, that they can yield significantly more energy per gram of food that average humans can

Arguably possible, and a plausible explanation.

@Ashiraya

I would doubt so. Space Marines are made from human teens by adding through surgerie their various new organs which in turn affect an normal human physical developpement. It takes about 6 years to do all the procedure and it's even possible to interrupt it and have some subject still be alive and very fonctionnal. The changes from human to Space Marines isn't that drastic from a biological point of view. Space Marines are still recognisable has human. Since they have been described extensively, we can assume that everything that hasn't been improved should fall under normal human parameters. For exemple, Space Marines have one useless toe, hair made and nails made of soft keratine, etc. So their cells work much like humans ones with the exception of laraman cell.

Even though I've suggested it, I'm unsure if it is feasable chemically. You can obtain 4.1kcal of energy per gram of carbs for example. Now I think that is like the set in stone energy rate that can be obtained, hence how they can count calories in food, they burn it, now, if someone were to say different animals in the planet can ovtain more than 4.1kcal of energy from carbs, we can start talking, but I don't think we can.

Anyway, we could start talking about genetically modified foods that are grown. Maybe they can create potatoes that are so dense of carbs that they can get 10000kcal per one. Digestion wise, marines have a few advantages to eating such foods, acid saliva must help with the breakdown of it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and on the notion of the amount of poop they make... If they are modified to have the correct enzymes (ones that can process fiber for example) they may not create much waste at all. Theoretically anyway, if it isn't discussed in the fluff, then it is speculation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A thoughts just crossed my mind... The amount of augmentation and expansion a marines central nervous must go would be just ridiculous. It's no good having all these extra organs, and mutated organs if the neural links aren't there for the brain to use them... How does the brain know it can now send messages to create acid. The process has never been possible before?

The old fluff where marines were chemically stimmed and borderline brainwashed along with extensive psychosurgery and conditioning that turned them into mutated abhuman monsters made it all a bit more Plausable, the latest fluff where they control their augmentations through being a spiritual monk is ridiculous.

epronovost wrote:@Ashiraya

I would doubt so. Space Marines are made from human teens by adding through surgerie their various new organs which in turn affect an normal human physical developpement. It takes about 6 years to do all the procedure and it's even possible to interrupt it and have some subject still be alive and very fonctionnal

Its closer to ten years, and the best results come from starting with preteens - ten to twelve year olds.

Failed aspirants who survive are also not all that common.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst I have given what I believe to be a valid defence of why marines could be that fast. Yeah, I totally concede that I have no idea how you would fuel such a thing.

The only explanation could possibly be that they are changed so much on a cellular level, that they can yield significantly more energy per gram of food that average humans can, but well.... That would start breaking the rules of chemistry so yeah.

How you would feed such a thing I have no idea, maybe they are linked up directly to their fusion reactors haha.

I wonder how long a marine could last on the cannibalism of their own protein mass?

Imma let you finish, but...

This is 40K. Inclusion of/discussion of/comparison to real-world physics/chemistry/metallurgy/science of any kind has no place here, and trying to reconcile the two is a path that ends only in madness and ruin.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


I wonder how long a marine could last on the cannibalism of their own protein mass?

About ten thousand years according to Nick Kyme, although that Marine was in a Sus-an coma.