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 raiden wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Game turn, not player turn...it doesn't matter if you go first or second, if you have nothing on the board at the end of the first game turn, you lose.

It's your turn, check it again.

If, at the end of your turn you have nothing on the field you lose.

As others have said, you need to check it again.

so any idea what the "Elite" choice is for Ravenwing. If it's either a command squad or black knights, there is only a 0-1 choice. That might not work for some people but works for me.

 bullyboy wrote:
so any idea what the "Elite" choice is for Ravenwing. If it's either a command squad or black knights, there is only a 0-1 choice. That might not work for some people but works for me.

If what we've heard is true... RWBK, hopefully sammeal unlocks one as a HQ slot, but if not, I believe someone said the new RWBK can take 12 models. So take 12 and combat squad.

 bullyboy wrote:
so any idea what the "Elite" choice is for Ravenwing. If it's either a command squad or black knights, there is only a 0-1 choice. That might not work for some people but works for me.

Unknown at this time. Both could be elite. If there is actually an option to take generic hq characters as part of the RWSF, then almost certainly the RW command squad is elite keeping in line with SM command squads being elite instead of HQs.

If you cannot take generic hq characters in a RWSF (and it wasn't an "oops" by GW), then they pretty much have to be HQs as there is simply nothing else to fill the two optional HQ slots once you take Sammael.

Whether BK are elite or not partially depends on the situation above, as if RW command squads are not elite, BK are pretty much the only other logical choice. It also depends on if GW wanted to keep them essentially a "0-1" option in the RWSF.

 bullyboy wrote:
so any idea what the "Elite" choice is for Ravenwing. If it's either a command squad or black knights, there is only a 0-1 choice. That might not work for some people but works for me.

That would make me sad

Pretty sure command squad in C:SM is now an elites choice. Which would most likely put rwcs in the same and keep black knights as fast attack

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Unfortunately that's the background section of the bike (you can tell because it's in italics). It probably says something like "used by members of the Ravenwing".

The rules section doesn't seem to mention the Ravenwing rule at all.

Well gak. I was hoping that IC or CM would gain the Ravenwing rule if they took a bike. Then the fact they even listed HQ as a requirement is pretty dumb. It might as well just say Sammael. The only thing that might mitigate this is if the Deathwing rule somehow encompasses the Ravenwing rule as well. Do we have a translated scan of the Deathwing rule?

This book is shaping up to be a bit of a let down. The fact the Deathwing Strike Force is basically a carbon copy of the Archangels Strike Force is pretty annoying as well (except we can choose a lot more stuff to go in there with the ASF). I guess teleporting Land Raiders is going to have to cut it for some people. Though if you get a Teleport Homer on the board, dropping a Land Raider in the middle of your opponent's business would be kinda cool, especially if it spits out its entire complement of Terminators.

I'm hoping the special rules for Deathwing will mention something about ICs swapping for Ravenwing

There's not much hope, but some

Considering the detachment lists 3 HQs as an option I'd guess that GW intends for you to take more than just Sammael, it's just that (classically) they failed when it came to actually implementing said allowance.

Talk to your opponent. If they're reasonable they'll probably see that RAI, HQs on bikes can be taken as a part of the RWSF.

It's times like these I wish GW proof read things properly and did FaQs.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Considering the detachment lists 3 HQs as an option I'd guess that GW intends for you to take more than just Sammael, it's just that (classically) they failed when it came to actually implementing said allowance.

Talk to your opponent. If they're reasonable they'll probably see that RAI, HQs on bikes can be taken as a part of the RWSF.

It's times like these I wish GW proof read things properly and did FaQs.

It's OK, we'll get an FAQ about 5 months before our next codex!

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

You can take whatever you want. That is totally possible.

The book looks to have some winning choices so far

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Considering the detachment lists 3 HQs as an option

*facepalms* I totally forgot about that. Be it that most command squads are Elites, I am betting the RWCS is there, not in HQ. The bike adding Ravenwing would be the easiest way to get a Librarian, Interrogator-Chaplain, or a Company Master the Ravenwing rule, but, naturally, they biffed on that. And it isn't like Bikes are found or used anywhere else in the Chapter, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Considering the detachment lists 3 HQs as an option I'd guess that GW intends for you to take more than just Sammael, it's just that (classically) they failed when it came to actually implementing said allowance.

Talk to your opponent. If they're reasonable they'll probably see that RAI, HQs on bikes can be taken as a part of the RWSF.

It's times like these I wish GW proof read things properly and did FaQs.

It's OK, we'll get an FAQ about 5 months before our next codex!

That's the spirit!

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Considering the detachment lists 3 HQs as an option I'd guess that GW intends for you to take more than just Sammael, it's just that (classically) they failed when it came to actually implementing said allowance.

Nah, they give you more than one so that you can run Sammael on a jetbike at the same time as you run him in Sableclaw, his Land Speeder.

on the topic of HQs, I noticed that both the DW and RW formations allow you to reroll the warlord trait if taken as primary detachment. If Belial and sammael still get a preset warlord trait as before, this would indicate that other HQ options must be allowed to be taken instead.

Any word on company veteran squads? Same cost and options?

 Kavish wrote:
Any word on company veteran squads? Same cost and options?

I'd imagine power weapons at 5pts now.

So, I've been reading that MoR now are AP3 and can be pumped to x2 AP2 one blow each. Does that mean that on a charge you get only ONE attack with the mace or do you still get the bonus from the charge?

While I like the notion of having the maces AP3, I'm concerned about how effective it'll be against Wraithknights, Demon princes, Imperial Knights, etc.

Prior you can strike 12 blows (4 knights + 3 attacks each) at S10 AP2 (or 1 against certain fellows) + the Knight Master's attacks at S6 AP3.
It usually meant that you killed whatever you hit as even 50% of the blows landing means 6 S10 attacks.
Now, I'm thinking about having 4 attacks (not sure if the Knight master has the same thing) against most things and trying to think of the best use of them. Are they just a good MEQ/Horde killer?

Based on what we know, is it possible to have a CAD of Scouts with a Librarian in TA, plus the DW Strike Force, and the ability to attach the Librarian to a DW squad? That's pretty much the only way I can see myself playing DA under this codex, and if not, all my DA stuff is getting sold. Unbound armies aren't allowed in any organized play in my area, and that's the only way I can get games in. :(

Until we get the English version there is no point in saying that "the only hq in a bla bla bla" force that can be taken is x, the option or clarification could be anywhere and it's pointless whining or jumping to conclusions until we see the finished product.

From the formations it's clear That other hqs are allowed, we just don't know how yet.

It's clear that the INTENTION is for them to be allowed. RAW may be a different best. It's GW after all.

 Formosa wrote:
Until we get the English version there is no point in saying that "the only hq in a bla bla bla" force that can be taken is x, the option or clarification could be anywhere and it's pointless whining or jumping to conclusions until we see the finished product.

From the formations it's clear That other hqs are allowed, we just don't know how yet.

Let's not forget than the german version of the SM codex had the wrong point values for Gravs, so i'm more keen on waiting the english version.

The French version has the wrong points for Grav .

But yes, it's true that GW could have screwed up only in the German version (or maybe even only have Bikes give the Ravenwing rule in the French 'dex )

Now I'm thinking of a future where GW puts different rules in different region's 'dexes, forcing people to buy multiple 'dexes and learn multiple languages to get all the rule...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:


Now I'm thinking of a future where GW puts different rules in different region's 'dexes, forcing people to buy multiple 'dexes and learn multiple languages to get all the rule...

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, there are only Polyglots!

 Thairne wrote:
It's clear that the INTENTION is for them to be allowed. RAW may be a different best. It's GW after all.

No offence but when people mention raw to me it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, raw without rai is worthless, same vice versa, people should try to marry them up rather than stick to one or the other.

If for example raw says no and it's blatantly clear what the rai is, raw can suck a fat one, far too many people try to use raw to gain advantage for "legal cheating" hence my distrust.

Well the problem is, where do you draw the line with RAI vs RAW? It's like with any rules.. if you start to disregard one because you think otherwise you may end up with S: D Assault 7 bolters.
Personally, I'd treat any IC with a bike as having the RW rule, I'm with you there. Still RAW is RAW and RAI is RAI.
In a tournament the list would be illegal, no matter what you or I think.

Yeah I agree with that, don't disregard one or the other, your example makes complete sense, if you get raw and the rai isn't clear, go with raw, if raw is inane and rai is clear, go with rai, it's the raw obsessed people that irk me.

jakejackjake wrote:You can take whatever you want. That is totally possible.

No it's not, they took away the option he wanted to use.

All this newer talk is worrying me now, concerned I might be screwed...

I know I am jumping into this debate late, but can someone explain to me what the issue is? Are you saying generic HQ choices can't take bikes or just they don't have the special ravenwing rule? Does every unit in the ravenwing strike force thing have to have the ravenwing rule?

I'm going to be really agitated if I can't run 3 lvl 2 librarians on telepathy to make my bikes with a 2+ re-roll cover save.

Is it confirmed that our bikes have access to grav?

 Commissar Merces wrote:
generic HQ (...) don't have the special ravenwing rule

This...

 Commissar Merces wrote:
Does every unit in the ravenwing strike force thing have to have the ravenwing rule?

... and this, as far we know.

That would be disastrous, especially after I blew my money on a large ravenwing army last night...

 Commissar Merces wrote:
I know I am jumping into this debate late, but can someone explain to me what the issue is? Are you saying generic HQ choices can't take bikes or just they don't have the special ravenwing rule? Does every unit in the ravenwing strike force thing have to have the ravenwing rule?

I'm going to be really agitated if I can't run 3 lvl 2 librarians on telepathy to make my bikes with a 2+ re-roll cover save.

Is it confirmed that our bikes have access to grav?

There will most likely be an errata or something regarding this. However, rerollable 2+++ can be achieved by Ravenwing without any Libbys