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 easysauce wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Let's just hope that the rumor is true that his Star Trek suffered thanks to his heart belonging to Star Wars.

It does seem like star wars is more his thing I think he will do well with it.

He did change the star trek MO, its not what I would call the original intent of Roddenberry, but its entertaining and fun nonetheless.

It's worth pointing out that Abrams did say that, when he first started with Star Trek, he told the rest of the crew that he wanted to see what lessons Star Trek could learn from Star Wars. So, it may be interesting to see if he takes the same approach with Star Wars (what can SW learn from ST).

 insaniak wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Most of the world only thinks of the movies as 'canon' and maybe the cartoons too - if they think about 'canon' at all.

Most of the world doesn't know that there is anything other than the movies and maybe the cartoon.

Most of the world couldn't even tell you what the word "canon" means or how to spell it properly.

 gorgon wrote:

I wasn't crazy about Into Darkness either, but I didn't hate it with the ferocity that some seem to have. Exchange Cumberbatch for a more convincingly menacing actor, remove the reactor scene and stick more closely to a 'Space Seed'-inspired story, and suddenly the movie jumps up an entire letter grade, IMO. But I like that Abrams took some risks and was willing to break eggs in his films, because the original series did those things too.

Let me start with, I actually really liked Into Darkness.


That said, IMHO, when I'm sitting here typing it, looking back on what I saw in it, I think it actually may have been better served as being two separate movies. The "first" movie, being "ST: Into Darkness" would be the whole 'sink the dreadnought' story, with the big reveal being at the end the source of the knowledge behind such a devastating "non-Federation" ship. That revelation (being Khan in an alternate timeline) would lead into "Nu-ST 3: now with more lense flares" where nu-Kirk and crew would come across the Botany Bay crash site and the new rebooted alternate timeline story of RoK.

My only problem with Into Darkness is that Cumberbatch made for a great genetically modified superhuman villain, but not a great Khan. He should have just been Khan's second-in-command, with Khan to be revealed later.
I somewhat fear the same might happen with his work on SW7: Trying to recapture some of the magic from the original, but going just a bit too far with it.

 Alpharius wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Abrams' STAR TREK was also fairly ballsy in that in essentially erased ALL previous STAR TREK TV shows and movies from existence - they all never happened now!

No, all the other Star Trek stuff still exists as the main timeline. So the Abrams-verse is like another parallel dimension. I know it doesn't really make sense but you have to use some fancy Star Trek quantum space logic.

No.

Actually - whatever?


It exists in a timeline that we'll never see again, so it might as well be gone forever...

Yes. It's actually called the "AR" for alternate reality. As for never seeing the prime reality again: who can say? Maybe we will and maybe we won't but the success of the JJ Abrams movies didn't decrease the likelihood we will. Quite the opposite IMO. For the people that hate those movies don't forget Star Trek was well and truly dead when they were made. I'd rather have these two movies than absolutely nothing at all.

No.

I'm pretty sure all the old Star Trek stuff is now "AR" and JJ's in what we're getting for the foreseeable future - and I'm OK with that.

No! From this: http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_reality

"The alternate reality runs parallel to the prime reality as a new quantum reality. The prime reality is where many of the events seen in the Star Trek universe have occurred and, according to Star Trek writers Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, their film allows the prime reality to continue. ["

It's ok Alpharius, I know you're just trying to be contrarian. You can't help it.

No.

From the same 'wiki' page you linked to:

The alternate reality was the new reality created when the temporal incursion of the Narada from the year 2387 disrupted the time continuum.

And for the last time, since we really should stay on topic in here about Star Wars!

Anyway, there's NO WAY JJ will make worse movies than GL did, so I am quite excited by the prospect of Episodes VII, VIII and IX!

I hope Boba Fett is officially out of the Sarlacc pit and at least in Ep. VIII!

As I recall, he has officially been declared not to have died in the pit due to his presence in the upcoming Battlefront game's battles which are set after RotJ. IIRC he is also getting his own spinoff movie.

 Alpharius wrote:


I hope Boba Fett is officially out of the Sarlacc pit and at least in Ep. VIII!

Im honestly taking bets that the strange stormtrooper in the trailers is some new canon interpretation of Mirta Gev.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
My only problem with Into Darkness is that Cumberbatch made for a great genetically modified superhuman villain, but not a great Khan.

My issue with Cumberbatch is that he lacked physical presence. Skull crushing strength doesn't come from a pencil thin body, genetically modified or no. I had similar issues with Quinto ripping pieces off a spaceship with his bare hands. I think Abrams will have an easier time getting away with that sort of thing in the Star Wars universe due to the existence of The Force, and it's ability to let Yoda lift X-Wings.

To be fair, Vulcans being significantly stronger than humans wasn't Abrams' idea...

 insaniak wrote:
To be fair, Vulcans being significantly stronger than humans wasn't Abrams' idea...

True, but that was always demonstrated by way of nerve pinches (which might not be related to strength), not ripping pieces off spaceships.

There are a few great SWEU books, but there is a LOT of crap.

Like the Sun crusher and giant space otters as well as centaurs. If there is a reason to scrap the EU it is that, let the little bit of good had to die with the bad.

Sacrifices have to be made people.

That said, didn't Disney say they were going to release a whole new series of novels to work around the films and be super duper official canon?

I would love to see dinsney make a star wars animation movie with the high quality art and motion of their animated films.... without the dozen or so songs...

 dogma wrote:

True, but that was always demonstrated by way of nerve pinches (which might not be related to strength), not ripping pieces off spaceships.

Well, no, it was demonstrated by having Spock kicking heinie from time to time. The nerve pinch was nothing to do with strength.

 Piston Honda wrote:

Like the Sun crusher and giant space otters as well as centaurs. If there is a reason to scrap the EU it is that, let the little bit of good had to die with the bad.

And the Yuuzhan Vong, Hutt Jedi, and all super-weapons ever introduced into the EU.

 insaniak wrote:

Well, no, it was demonstrated by having Spock kicking heinie from time to time. The nerve pinch was nothing to do with strength.

How often did Spock kick heinie in TOS? The iconic scene is in Amok Time, where Kirk matches him evenly.

Yeah, it was covered more in the books than the show, although there was some initial disagreement amongst authors as to whether Spock had normal Vulcan strength or not... At least one of the early novels described him as having done poorly at physical stuff...

All of which is getting a little off track, here...

Vulcans are much stronger than humans, live longer, are more intelligent etc. They're pretty much better in everyway, they even have pointy ears like a space elf. However, humans usually surpass them because of the humans-are-special trope. In Into Darkness Spock was getting emotional because of his half human side and was basically hulking out. So even there we can see his special humanness prevailing.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Vulcans are much stronger than humans, live longer, are more intelligent etc. They're pretty much better in everyway, they even have pointy ears like a space elf.

And Worf is apparently a badass, but gets his ass kicked all the time; unlike Riker. Most of what establishes alien races in the Trek Universe as being physically superior to humans are statements to that effect, not demonstrations. I think this is primarily due to Trek canon being based on a show rather than a series of movies.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

However, humans usually surpass them because of the humans-are-special trope. In Into Darkness Spock was getting emotional because of his half human side and was basically hulking out. So even there we can see his special humanness prevailing.

He only won the fight because Uhura helped, so the two humans settled the matter. And, to my understanding, Vulcans are very emotional; they merely hide their emotions due to the teachings of Surak.

Regardless, Star Wars has the advantage of physical capacity being boosted by The Force, Star Trek doesn't.

 Alpharius wrote:
No.

From the same 'wiki' page you linked to:

The alternate reality was the new reality created when the temporal incursion of the Narada from the year 2387 disrupted the time continuum.

And for the last time, since we really should stay on topic in here about Star Wars!

Anyway, there's NO WAY JJ will make worse movies than GL did, so I am quite excited by the prospect of Episodes VII, VIII and IX!

I hope Boba Fett is officially out of the Sarlacc pit and at least in Ep. VIII!

Have an exalt for the Fett comment (and the Mod-esque "Stay on Target", too!).


Though... Fett would be in his 60's now, maybe even 70's. Fett's age has always been relatively indeterminate... i sort of follow the paths that he's slightly older than Solo myself, but that's opinion.

Is it realistic to think that someone would still be an utter badass into their 60's bounty hunting ? Or maybe the armor (and legend!) has been passed on. Or there's cybernetics like luke's hand / vaders body, etc.... but in any event, agreed. I am really hoping that Fett makes an appearance in the new movies and is finally given some movie screen badass air time.

Because... despite his awesome air of mystery and iconography, in the 6 movies, Fett doesn't inspire much fear at all. And listen i'm a Fett fan, i love him (like most other SW nerds do), but his cult of personality is largely due to the extended universe, and not much to do with the 6 movies. So i really hope they do some justice to the legend. They'd be stupid not to - Fett is a merchandising machine.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
As a lover of Star Trek growing up (mostly Next Generation and DS9) I absolutely love what Abrams did with Star Trek. Him being onboard is the only reason I'll go see the new Star Wars in theatres.

And I second that Lucas did far worse to the expanded universe in the prequels than Disney/Abrams is likely to do.

I agree that Lucas made a mess of things, but at the end of the day, it was his property to do with as he saw fit.

Logically, scrapping the EU makes sense, but I feel sorry for people who invested into it through books, games, comics etc

Yeah, I'm a next-gen man myself (hell, I cherish a pic I got taken with Patrick Stewart last year at a convention), enjoyed the original series on reruns, have sat through a good portion of the other 3 (DS9 is fine, Voyager is bad, Enterprise is uggggh), and I found the reboot movies to be generally fun flicks. Looking forward to the third. I will say I actually kind of liked some of the changes (including the infamous final scene, even with its rapid fire wrap up). As an alternate universe it was interesting to play with things ending basically the same, but with a twist. Also we got a great bit with OG Spock being all "oh, I vowed not to tell about my experiences, don't want to contaminate things... but seriously feth that guy, here's everything from our run ins, good luck."


As for Star Trek, it is *entirely* reasonable to look at the fething hundreds of novels and shows and games and comics and whatnot and say "look, guys, we are NOT going be bound in a tarpit of trying to cover every damned base here." There is just so much SW gak out there I'm not sure it's possible to make a movie that is recognizably Star Wars without contradicting something in there, so I took the general sentiment to be 'it is what it is, if you feel the need to nitpick nonsense, don't expect us to cry over it'.

That said, if they have a blue skinned/red eyed/black haired alien in a crisp white uniform in the background somewhere, with a simmering red head alongside him and a tiny vicious alien acting as a bodyguard, I'll be immeasurably happy.

Not getting bogged down in the EU is one thing, but let's not get too crazy here.

... Timothy Zahn, feth yeah!

 Compel wrote:
In saying that... I really do want to see new stories in the Episode 7 universe whether there is a blue skinned, red eyed Imperial Admiral that is an evil Sherlock Holmes in space.

Here's a man that knows what's up.

 Manchu wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
all too reverential of the OST and obsessed with seeing what the characters did next

Very fair point, that. It did start to feel like the whole galaxy revolved around less than a dozen people.

Let's not overlook people coming up with elaborate quadrilogy backstories for *every damned person in the Cantina*. (only minor hyperbole present and we all know it)

I get your point about The Usual Suspects being just everywhere, all the time, but man, it does get a bit out of hand even without them as well.

Let's be honest, the new Star Wars film could be a steaming pile of brown stuff, but millions will still watch it, and the merchandise sales will make Disney very happy, which at the end of the day, is all that matters for them. I hope it's a good film, but I'm getting flashbacks of TPM. I hope I'm proved wrong.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's be honest, the new Star Wars film could be a steaming pile of brown stuff, but millions will still watch it

Kind of like the originals?

*runs*

Never been a huge fan of the Star Wars films - they suffer from the same thing that most films involving GL do - the involvement of GL... So I am actually quite looking forwards to seeing what these new films are like as I quite enjoyed the Star Trek reboot. And unlike Star Wars, I actually liked the original source material.

JJ Abrams doesn't deserve flashbacks to TPM. Unless he goes insane (not to be ruled out, we do have Peter Jacksons Hobbit trilogy as evidence) it's going to be a solid and enjoyable movie and probably one of the 3 top grossing films of the year (in a year with some pretty massive hauls so far with 2 movies clearing a trillion world wide).

 Hulksmash wrote:
JJ Abrams doesn't deserve flashbacks to TPM. Unless he goes insane (not to be ruled out, we do have Peter Jacksons Hobbit trilogy as evidence) it's going to be a solid and enjoyable movie and probably one of the 3 top grossing films of the year (in a year with some pretty massive hauls so far with 2 movies clearing a trillion world wide).

I agree that in the hands of a competent director (which Abrams is IMO) the film will do well, but somebody thought Waterworld an Heaven's gate were also good ideas


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's be honest, the new Star Wars film could be a steaming pile of brown stuff, but millions will still watch it

Kind of like the originals?

*runs*

Never been a huge fan of the Star Wars films - they suffer from the same thing that most films involving GL do - the involvement of GL... So I am actually quite looking forwards to seeing what these new films are like as I quite enjoyed the Star Trek reboot. And unlike Star Wars, I actually liked the original source material.

ESB is the exception, but then again, Lucas was side-lined on that, so you're probably right.

The originals in general were heavily overseen by other people. GL didn't have free reign over the script like he did with the prequels.

 Haight wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
No.

From the same 'wiki' page you linked to:

The alternate reality was the new reality created when the temporal incursion of the Narada from the year 2387 disrupted the time continuum.

And for the last time, since we really should stay on topic in here about Star Wars!

Anyway, there's NO WAY JJ will make worse movies than GL did, so I am quite excited by the prospect of Episodes VII, VIII and IX!

I hope Boba Fett is officially out of the Sarlacc pit and at least in Ep. VIII!

Have an exalt for the Fett comment (and the Mod-esque "Stay on Target", too!).


Though... Fett would be in his 60's now, maybe even 70's. Fett's age has always been relatively indeterminate... i sort of follow the paths that he's slightly older than Solo myself, but that's opinion.

Is it realistic to think that someone would still be an utter badass into their 60's bounty hunting ? Or maybe the armor (and legend!) has been passed on. Or there's cybernetics like luke's hand / vaders body, etc.... but in any event, agreed. I am really hoping that Fett makes an appearance in the new movies and is finally given some movie screen badass air time.

Because... despite his awesome air of mystery and iconography, in the 6 movies, Fett doesn't inspire much fear at all. And listen i'm a Fett fan, i love him (like most other SW nerds do), but his cult of personality is largely due to the extended universe, and not much to do with the 6 movies. So i really hope they do some justice to the legend. They'd be stupid not to - Fett is a merchandising machine.

Fett's story has potential to be a heavy weight.

They way I look at it... the Mandalorians seems more like 40k's Deathwatch.

They are sort of. They even stole the name.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The originals in general were heavily overseen by other people. GL didn't have free reign over the script like he did with the prequels.

Yeah, I read that David Lynch knocked back ROTJ for Dune. I can only imagine what Lynch's version would have been like.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The originals in general were heavily overseen by other people. GL didn't have free reign over the script like he did with the prequels.

Yeah, I read that David Lynch knocked back ROTJ for Dune. I can only imagine what Lynch's version would have been like.

Actually, for ROTJ apparently Lucas spent a lot of time around the set, etc. and some think he was a phantom menace of sorts for the director.

Which would explain why there's a lot of proto-prequel stuff going on in that film (IMO). Lucas being far, far away from these films is truly a new hope for Star Wars fans.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I agree that in the hands of a competent director (which Abrams is IMO) the film will do well, but somebody thought Waterworld an Heaven's gate were also good ideas

Meh, I liked Waterworld.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The originals in general were heavily overseen by other people. GL didn't have free reign over the script like he did with the prequels.

George Lucas is very much a Rough Draft idea man. Give em some restraint, but let him come up with some ideas.

 insaniak wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I agree that in the hands of a competent director (which Abrams is IMO) the film will do well, but somebody thought Waterworld an Heaven's gate were also good ideas

Meh, I liked Waterworld.

So did I - it just didn't live up to the hype (and budget!) for many.

I don't think that will be the case here though...for most!