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Talys wrote: Well, the price of plastic is so small that the fluctuations in oil price have no real bearing on the cost of production. I mean, go to a dollar store, and look at how much plastic you can get for $1. And those dollar stores are selling the plastic containers for orders of magnitude more than their production cost.
Yes, I understand plastic is basically worthless. That's why there's usually more plastic 'wasted' on the sprue itself than on the bits and pieces that came with it. And that's also why the usual argument supporting crazy prices due to "lots of bits in the sprue" is nonsense.
The problem with metal isn't so much the material, it's that metal models don't use a lot of pieces, because it's impractical to assemble little fidly parts that are metal, whereas modern resin or plastic models can have tons of pieces. This gets rid of undercuts (the areas where a mold can't get to, so you have dead space) and allow for models that can be rotated in all axis that are viewed correctly, I just took this picture comparing Dominus to Bradigus, as a comparison of two $35-ish models. The Bradigus model illustrates the limitations of metal (by the way, I love both models).
A practical problem of wargaming with metal gaming pieces is just that as they get larger and have more pieces, they just fall apart, even when you pin them all to death. For the same reasons, they transport really badly, and it's just no fun to be supergluing stuff during your turn or before setup.
I agree metal is simply a no-no for big models. I have the 6th edition dark elves Hydra. A nice model to a degree, but holy cow its assembly made me break a sweat for sure.
As for the less pieces/more pieces issue, I dunno, I think sometimes less pieces can be better. You will have less options, yeah, but in the end it all comes down to the quality of the design and the sculpt. I.e. the russian alternative chaos dwarfs (metal) have fixed poses and you can only switch heads and weapons. Yet the end result is, in my personal opinion, way superior to most dwarf plastic kits in the market (if not all). I don't know if metal simply allows a higher degree of 'crispy' detail that from my point of view puts high quality metal models simply a step beyond what plastics can achieve. Perhaps I'm just biased and love my metal models too much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/01 00:26:28
Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get.
I am simply eternally grateful that I already own all the figs I basically need for the two armies I collect.
Now, when something comes out - regardless of price, if I don't 'need' it, I don't buy it, and when I do buy, 90% of the time it's from 2nd hand sources. NEVER GW-direct.
Assault Marines? These aren't exactly 'new' troops. Do you have the old ones already? Chances are if you're a veteran player, you have some. Why the urge to buy what you already have? Because they look nicer? I don't blame you - but if you're buying them simply for aesthetic reasons, then you know the price of admission and can make your own informed purchase decision.
The people I -really- feel badly for is anyone looking to get into the game for the first time. I can say with 100% conviction that if I had zero figs and was looking into a GW game, just starting-out... I'd skip the brand -completely-. Unlike the 80's, there are alternatives available now., too many of them to count almost. But just about every one of them is more affordable.
But this complaint has been around since the 90's. Prices creep upward 10x the rise of inflation, people belly-ache... and then they keep buying anyway. Take all the anger and vitriol and sob stories from all over the world, put them in a big shipping container and deliver to their HQ, and guess what? Nothing is going to happen. GW will do whatever GW wants to do, and only a -drastic- cut in revenues is going give them cause for concern, because they've been milking the fanbase for -decades- and for them, their business model works.
"Wheels within wheels, in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.
Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects."
Saw the box, thought "Oh, new casts are nice. 10 for £50 isn't bad considering the old 5 Man box was 22.50. But Vanguard Vets looks better, looks like i'm sticking with them for £16 a box!"
Saw this thread, thought "Hmm, equal amounts of anti-GW and pro-GW, Price increase on a complete Luxury item is expected. If you're weighing up affording a Box of plastic men and eating for a week, I think you have bigger issues"
Do GW price hike, yes. Does it annoy me? Yes. But I'd rather pay £50 for a GW product then ANYTHING put out by the AAA game industry. I feel I get £50 worth of enjoyment from GW, between modelling, painting and playing.
Granted, for my £50, they could at least hire an FAQ team, perhaps even playtest their rules, hell even take that revenue and give me some SoB plastics.
But it is what it is. A luxury object that has no use other then your own self enjoyment. The learning curve of painting and modelling, and the stories and enjoyment to be had playing a game with friends is priceless imo.
I am not defending GW, I disagree with their "DLC"ing of certain armies (Supplements.. urg), I disagree with the rules and Codices being over-priced beyond ridiculous and I hate that the design team are a bunch of out-of-touch idiots who couldn't balance a scale.
But lets look at this relative to other hobbies (Pricing is conservative based on my own experience)
PC Gaming: Chances are you need to upgrade your rig every couple of years, new GPU -£200, RAM - £30, SSD- £200 = £430, at least. Lets throw some non-steam summer sale games in (and keep it thematic kinda) DoW collection £30, Space Marine £15, Mass Effect collection £60, = 535 Don't even get me started on buying a new rig.
Console Gaming: (Assuming your a good little boy/girl/Chaos Spawn who doesn't buy preowned) Console - £300, -each game- £40 (lets say 3 hot new titles you want, so ME3, DA:I and Madden) = £420, and god forbid they ever release a new console with no backwards capability and console exclusive titles you want to play and charge a sub fee to access the internet on it (oh wait..)
40K - Army Box set £80, codex - £40, BRB - £50, throw in some units you like - £60 = £230. Thats a core army, the rules needed and some extra units (I don't know, say 1 unit of sternguard and some termies), to be fair lets throw in another £20 for paints, £10 on brushes, that's £260 for a fully playable army, with the extras needed to make it look Fabulous.
MMO Gaming - (Or should I say, the only good one) WoW - £20 for battlechest, £40 for Warlords of Draenor, £10 a month sub (lets say a year) = £180
I don't think GW is that bad when you line it up with everything else considered a hobby and how much they cost.
If, on the other hand, you have no patience and -have- to buy the new hotness asap, and still complain about prices, I have no sympathy for you.
What I find really, really odd about the 10 man Assault marine box is the price. So in GW/GW website in the UK it is £25 for a box of 5 marines and £50 for a box of 10. Getting the 10 man set is no different to getting 2 boxes of 5 marines separately.
GW should be giving some incentive for getting the 10 man box, i.e. make it a bit cheaper (£40 instead of £50 for example)
"For The Emperor and Sanguinius!"
My Armies:
Blood Angels, Ultramarines,
Astra Militarum,
Mechanicus
MMO Gaming - (Or should I say, the only good one) WoW - £20 for battlechest, £40 for Warlords of Draenor, £10 a month sub (lets say a year) = £180
Subscriptions are only for people that don't run game farming bots. a 30day game play token costs around 40000 gold, and that is like nothing.
PC Gaming: Chances are you need to upgrade your rig every couple of years, new GPU -£200, RAM - £30, SSD- £200 = £430, at least. Lets throw some non-steam summer sale games in (and keep it thematic kinda) DoW collection £30, Space Marine £15, Mass Effect collection £60, = 535 Don't even get me started on buying a new rig.
But you can download those games free and, no idea how it is in UK, but anyone under 18 or under 27 if he goes to an uni can get a "rig" refunded from the EU program for students. You can actualy do the same thing with w40k though, only it requires more work. Not to mention how many hours you get out of games. Full clear of mass effect is what 200hours , all 3 witcher parts around the same. They are also fun not just for you, but for other people too. Unlike w40k which is offten fun only for one person, depending on what codex one has or what match up one plays.
Ravenous D wrote: 40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote: GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
Why are people comparing GW's prices for a wargaming product to non-wargaming products?
Its about as useful as a metric as comparing 40k to luxury yachting or owning a helicopter.
Oh, and I asked this another thread, but for the people who think the new kit is priced fairly, or at least still worth buying in your eyes, at what price point would you not buy it?
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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Blacksails wrote: Oh, and I asked this another thread, but for the people who think the new kit is priced fairly, or at least still worth buying in your eyes, at what price point would you not buy it?
There you go, a good question!
The answer, of course, is not simple. In 1990, if a 5-man kit were $50, sticker shock would have made me go ZOMG and do something else, like take my then-girlfriend on a nice dinner. In 2015, it's not sticker shock anymore. Then again, I would have never paid $15 for movie ticket back then either, or $12 for a popcorn and drink, or $130 for a videogame with a season pass that I got bored with before the first DLC came out. So the lesson is, ease in the price increases.
Now, specific to the ASM kit. I think it went from USD $33 -> USD $42. Not to sound like a dick, but $9 doesn't even get me a decent fast food meal anymore, so if I want something at $33, I'll certainly pay for it at $42. GW probably knows this. I think psychologically, $50 for a box of 5 ($10 per miniature) is probably significant, and $50 after my discount (just call it $65) would probably be another psychological barrier. At $100, it would be a no-go, for sure, I think. Partly, I have too many assault marines and ASM bits and BA parts that can be used as ASM (Sanguinary, Death Company) than I know what to do with anyhow.
I should also point out that with the ASM box, I add $5 of value to the kit because of the scenic bases. I happily give SWM $13.50-$15 for 10 32mm scenic bases, so I have no problem paying $1 more for a model that comes with a scenic base. Of course, I would be happier if GW sold a Scenic base sprue for $16 / 10 bases.
But let's put aside ASM and let's say they create a cool new power armor unit called a Xipher Squad, a power armored 32mm base model that was just really cool. How much would I pay for THAT? Well, now, that is a much harder question. I didn't blink at paying $80 for 3 centurions (I bought 2 boxes, actually). I even bought the ugly $70 robots. I paid $70 to get Borka on the bear (from Privateer Press), at $35 for Bradigus, a really crappy value model, got multiple Harlequin characters, and all that. But I don't want to buy only death jesters at death jester prices, because I like hacking models up, and I don't want to hack up a $30 model. Frankly, this is one of the reasons I buy a lot less Privateer Press -- they don't have multimodel boxes with an abundance of spare bits. If they did, they'd get a lot of my spending. But anyways.
So, would I pay $100 USD for new assault marines, even if they were awesome? No, I don't think so. Would I pay $100 USD for a brand new squad that I thought was super duper awesome? Probably. But this wouldn't be a good move on GW's part anyhow. At $50, I would probably buy 3 of the brand new super duper squad (or as many boxes as I might field); at $100, I would probably just buy 1 to own something I really want. Since the profit margin on those models is probably so high that the cost is negligible; therefore GW's correct pricing formula is to price it as high as people would pay per unit multiplied by the maximum number of boxes they would buy. It's like charging a little for supersized fries or a giant soft drink -- it's just extra profit, because the cost is barely a rounding error.
You could actually say the same thing about ASM. If they kept it at $35, I would buy as many as was useful. Instead, I'm buying 2, and might buy another 1 or 2, if it turns out that it's useful to do so from a gaming perspective (which it probably won't be).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/02 16:37:02
ausYenLoWang wrote: HAHAHA oh wow, i just saw this... i thought they typod the australian pricing, BUT its 50 pounds in the UK. what in the heck happened here?
You might be mistaken that Assault Squads box used to come in 10s, it didn't; it came in 5s.
It's £25 for the 5-men squad, and it was £20-ish(?) for the previous Assault Squad, so that's like ~1 pound increase per model. If the sprue was to be believed there are far more stuff in the box than the last rendition of Assault Squad. Although the box price jumped drastically when it uses USD (not to mention some other currencies, for that matter). Although if I recall correctly the price on a (10x) TAC marine box three years ago in my FLGS was around $40, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, 5x Assault Squad had always been rather expensive when you consider how many marines you can actually make. I honestly don't see what all the hustle is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blacksails wrote: Oh, and I asked this another thread, but for the people who think the new kit is priced fairly, or at least still worth buying in your eyes, at what price point would you not buy it?
At around $5.5 per model for TAC squad (and the all the extra bits added won't matter because I always get spare parts anyways, it's the torsos and legs that matters). And twice the price for any specialist squads. At this point for me is the point to quit, because the Assault marine box would be well over $50 and that's at least $10 more.
This is, of course, disregarding inflation. Obviously if I work the same job and made $10/hr yesterday got a $.5/hr increase simply because of inflation that actually makes it just a slightly more expensive.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/02 16:55:11
I'm certain it's just two 5-man boxes. In true GW style, the bundle is the same price as just buying the 2 separate boxes
I know, I was just confused why he reacted in that fashion (extremely surprised) as if the price was 20 BPD straight to 50 BPD. I'll admit, 40 BPD (although I'm not sure if that was the price) to 50 BPD is no small matter, but you also get twice the content, so a higher price hike is to be expected.
I think the Assault Squad kit in the FLGS back when I was still in the States was $40, but that might have been the Vanguard Vets box (then again, I think that box was more expensive). Since we've lost all point of reference here, I just want to remind people how much content they are paying for, and compare that to the appropriate point of reference. If ~$1 per model is too much for some people, it is too much for them. There can be no arguing that.
While I'm not gonna just throw my money away for those boxes right now, I'd say that when you compare the price of the new 5-men squad to the old 5-men squad, it is not a huge hike.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/02 17:14:56
Blacksails wrote: Oh, and I asked this another thread, but for the people who think the new kit is priced fairly, or at least still worth buying in your eyes, at what price point would you not buy it?
I think the price is high, but not out of bounds yet. I cringed a little at the last two boxes of veterans, both the vanguard and the sternguard (at $40 and $50 respectively). The sternguard, at $10/per model was rough for plastic minis, but the sprues were packed with extra awesome bits. The $8 each vanguard also provided many weapons and shoulder pads to my army, and generated a JP captain. Considering what GW prices HQs at, that helped a lot to justify the box. So those boxes not only provided the units inside, but helped bling out my sergeants and make a HQ, some honor guard, deathwatch, etc. So if the kit is nice enough (which I admit is totally subjective) I’ll pay up to (and maybe slightly over) $10 a model.
Now the new assault marine box cost the same as the vanguard vets. That’s a pretty rough matchup. What does it offer?
Spare torsos? I’m limited by legs, so extra torsos don’t do me a whole lot of good.
Weapon options? I’ve got a lot of spare flamers, and the VV is a treasure trove of CC weapons. It’s got the evisorator, an exclusive bit. So that’s something.
Sculpted bases? OK, these are kinda nice. I’ve got the scouts from the back of my LSS I was going to put on normal bases, these might give them something to sit on, as their poses are a little off.
Possible legs? These look nice. Dynamic poses are worth a bit.
Tactical marine are $4 each, which is not a bad price. Is the addition of the jump pack worth doubling the cost of a mini? I don’t really think so. Is is so overpriced that it goes from “cringe and buy” to “pass”? Nope. I’m going to buy a box. Would I do it at $50? Probably not. So at least for me, GW has not priced me out. Yet.
It helps that I’ve got projects in mind for a box of assault marines. One of my projects for the last year was to upgrade my old sergeants to better gear options, and more importantly, magnets. I’d not done my assault squads due to lack of parts. So even before the new kit dropped, I had a box of AMs on my things to get list. I also need one more vanguard vet to fill out a 10 man squad. So one of these guys is getting tapped up for that. So that’s 3/5 of the box right there I need. I’ve also got my eye on the UM upgrade frame, with plans to make a new foot captain, and probably a counts-as sicarius as well. Using AM parts here will look much better then the normal "standing around yelling pose" that most foot captains do.
The answer, of course, is not simple. In 1990, if a 5-man kit were $50, sticker shock would have made me go ZOMG and do something else, like take my then-girlfriend on a nice dinner. In 2015, it's not sticker shock anymore. Then again, I would have never paid $15 for movie ticket back then either, or $12 for a popcorn and drink, or $130 for a videogame with a season pass that I got bored with before the first DLC came out. So the lesson is, ease in the price increases.
Now, specific to the ASM kit. I think it went from USD $33 -> USD $42. Not to sound like a dick, but $9 doesn't even get me a decent fast food meal anymore, so if I want something at $33, I'll certainly pay for it at $42. GW probably knows this. I think psychologically, $50 for a box of 5 ($10 per miniature) is probably significant, and $50 after my discount (just call it $65) would probably be another psychological barrier. At $100, it would be a no-go, for sure, I think. Partly, I have too many assault marines and ASM bits and BA parts that can be used as ASM (Sanguinary, Death Company) than I know what to do with anyhow.
I should also point out that with the ASM box, I add $5 of value to the kit because of the scenic bases. I happily give SWM $13.50-$15 for 10 32mm scenic bases, so I have no problem paying $1 more for a model that comes with a scenic base. Of course, I would be happier if GW sold a Scenic base sprue for $16 / 10 bases.
But let's put aside ASM and let's say they create a cool new power armor unit called a Xipher Squad, a power armored 32mm base model that was just really cool. How much would I pay for THAT? Well, now, that is a much harder question. I didn't blink at paying $80 for 3 centurions (I bought 2 boxes, actually). I even bought the ugly $70 robots. I paid $70 to get Borka on the bear (from Privateer Press), at $35 for Bradigus, a really crappy value model, got multiple Harlequin characters, and all that. But I don't want to buy only death jesters at death jester prices, because I like hacking models up, and I don't want to hack up a $30 model. Frankly, this is one of the reasons I buy a lot less Privateer Press -- they don't have multimodel boxes with an abundance of spare bits. If they did, they'd get a lot of my spending. But anyways.
So, would I pay $100 USD for new assault marines, even if they were awesome? No, I don't think so. Would I pay $100 USD for a brand new squad that I thought was super duper awesome? Probably. But this wouldn't be a good move on GW's part anyhow. At $50, I would probably buy 3 of the brand new super duper squad (or as many boxes as I might field); at $100, I would probably just buy 1 to own something I really want. Since the profit margin on those models is probably so high that the cost is negligible; therefore GW's correct pricing formula is to price it as high as people would pay per unit multiplied by the maximum number of boxes they would buy. It's like charging a little for supersized fries or a giant soft drink -- it's just extra profit, because the cost is barely a rounding error.
You could actually say the same thing about ASM. If they kept it at $35, I would buy as many as was useful. Instead, I'm buying 2, and might buy another 1 or 2, if it turns out that it's useful to do so from a gaming perspective (which it probably won't be).
Well, there a lot of things I can say about you Talys, but your brevity is not one of those things
Thanks for the thought out response. I now have a good window into your self admitted alternate reality, and while I think even $50 for a kit from GW is high, I least understand why'd you theoretically pay $100 for 5 figures.
Spoiler:
lcmiracle wrote:At around $5.5 per model for TAC squad (and the all the extra bits added won't matter because I always get spare parts anyways, it's the torsos and legs that matters). And twice the price for any specialist squads. At this point for me is the point to quit, because the Assault marine box would be well over $50 and that's at least $10 more.
This is, of course, disregarding inflation. Obviously if I work the same job and made $10/hr yesterday got a $.5/hr increase simply because of inflation that actually makes it just a slightly more expensive.
Yeah, inflation aside, it would make the point too complicated. I struggle to count past 10 and do basic addition let alone percentages.
Sounds reasonable anyways. For that price though, I'd expect every single weapon option in the appropriate multiples allowed by the rules too.
Spoiler:
Nevelon wrote:
I think the price is high, but not out of bounds yet. I cringed a little at the last two boxes of veterans, both the vanguard and the sternguard (at $40 and $50 respectively). The sternguard, at $10/per model was rough for plastic minis, but the sprues were packed with extra awesome bits. The $8 each vanguard also provided many weapons and shoulder pads to my army, and generated a JP captain. Considering what GW prices HQs at, that helped a lot to justify the box. So those boxes not only provided the units inside, but helped bling out my sergeants and make a HQ, some honor guard, deathwatch, etc. So if the kit is nice enough (which I admit is totally subjective) I’ll pay up to (and maybe slightly over) $10 a model.
Now the new assault marine box cost the same as the vanguard vets. That’s a pretty rough matchup. What does it offer?
Spare torsos? I’m limited by legs, so extra torsos don’t do me a whole lot of good.
Weapon options? I’ve got a lot of spare flamers, and the VV is a treasure trove of CC weapons. It’s got the evisorator, an exclusive bit. So that’s something.
Sculpted bases? OK, these are kinda nice. I’ve got the scouts from the back of my LSS I was going to put on normal bases, these might give them something to sit on, as their poses are a little off.
Possible legs? These look nice. Dynamic poses are worth a bit.
Tactical marine are $4 each, which is not a bad price. Is the addition of the jump pack worth doubling the cost of a mini? I don’t really think so. Is is so overpriced that it goes from “cringe and buy” to “pass”? Nope. I’m going to buy a box. Would I do it at $50? Probably not. So at least for me, GW has not priced me out. Yet.
It helps that I’ve got projects in mind for a box of assault marines. One of my projects for the last year was to upgrade my old sergeants to better gear options, and more importantly, magnets. I’d not done my assault squads due to lack of parts. So even before the new kit dropped, I had a box of AMs on my things to get list. I also need one more vanguard vet to fill out a 10 man squad. So one of these guys is getting tapped up for that. So that’s 3/5 of the box right there I need. I’ve also got my eye on the UM upgrade frame, with plans to make a new foot captain, and probably a counts-as sicarius as well. Using AM parts here will look much better then the normal "standing around yelling pose" that most foot captains do.
Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed response.
*Edit* Also, spoilers are dope. Winners use spoilers, amirite?
*More editing* Seriously, look how pretty that looks!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/02 17:35:23
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
Blacksails wrote: Well, there a lot of things I can say about you Talys, but your brevity is not one of those things
Thanks for the thought out response. I now have a good window into your self admitted alternate reality, and while I think even $50 for a kit from GW is high, I least understand why'd you theoretically pay $100 for 5 figures.
A good question demands a good answer!
By the way, the alternate reality thing was a joke, lol. But anyhow, I DO think $50 for a 5-man kit from anyone is high. That wasn't your question though -- it was how high I was willing to pay. I buy all sorts of things I think are overpriced all the time :X
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/02 18:30:55
No Talys, you may joke about your "alternate reality" some others of us are... less jocular?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
On most of the models in the new kit, I certainly can't see much meaningul qualitative difference between them and the old ones (if any at all), you get a little more dynamic posing, and that's about it. That's simply not going to do it for most people. I certainly wouldn't be rushing out to buy any of these.
darkcloak wrote: $98 Canadian for 10 dudes... That is more than $10 per mini, the 5 man kit being slightly more expensive.
Holy fuckety feth feth....
The minis look the same even!
Who wants to bet that those Chapter Upgrade sprues are about to herald the end of faction specific Tac kits? Oh what's that you say? They just released a Tac kit for BA? Yeah okay. That's a valid point... :looks at 6th ed Knight codex:
1. If you think that $98 for 10 models is expensive, you would have thought $80 for 10 models was expensive before. I doubt you would have bought that one either.
That's a nearly 25% increase, that's plenty high enough to justify the sort of reaction we're seeing for many, especially when many didn't see anything wrong with the older kit.
I had the same reaction with the new Mechanicus character that just came out. At $36, I can't justify picking one up just because I liked the model. Seven or so years ago, such a character would have been ~$15. Now most are ~$25, and at $36? Just can't do it.
My impulse buying days are long gone with what GW charges, and that was really what accounted for most of my purchasing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/02 18:58:04
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Azreal13 wrote: No Talys, you may joke about your "alternate reality" some others of us are... less jocular?
Yeah, you know, one where friends actually still enjoy getting together in a basement to play wargames with each other a few times a month, and where folks don't really mind spending fifty to a hundred bucks on entertainment! Shocking, huh?
That's a nearly 25% increase, that's plenty high enough to justify the sort of reaction we're seeing for many, especially when many didn't see anything wrong with the older kit.
We go in circles about this -- but if you see the new kit as essentially the same as the old kit, then, yes, a 25% increase is unjustified. On the other hand, if you look at the new kit as a NEW kit (not just game pieces, but new models), and think that the new models are 25% better, then it is justified. Right?
As I've said, in real dollars, it went up from $33 - $41 USD. $8. Since I typically buy a scenic base OR spend time doing a nice custom base, the scenic base alone is worth at least $1 each base (about $15 for 10 at SWM), so the real difference is $3 per 5 models for me. If they did nothing but make posable legs and add scenic bases, it would have justified $8 / box of 5. Now, if you don't want all that stuff, and you just want a game piece that's a marine in a jump pack, and you don't get excited about an eviscerator that's now on a model other than Gabriel Seth... your point of view is absolutely correct, and that kit is clearly not being produced with you in mind.
But then again, if you already have enough ASMs, and new models don't get you excited, why would you ever buy another ASM box, regardless of whether the price went up or not?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/02 19:08:08
I really do want a lot of the parts in that box but i think they have priced me out.
shame too i think the new parts are all bitchin.
I'm in the same boat. I already have what Assault Marines I'm going to ever use anyways, but I could see picking up bits for conversion. I definitely think some of it looks good.
ALL HAIL THE ORKISSIAH, TRINARY SPEAKING GOD OF ORK TECHNOLOGY. (Unlike wimpy old Binary, Orks have commands for Yes, No AND "Maybe")
Agent_Tremolo wrote: In my personal scale for rating unlikely prophecies it scored two Millenium Bugs and one Mayan Apocalypse.
I believe the sentiment that has to be taken is practicality. The hobby is simply a way to pass the time and entertain yourself. Anything that moves the needle in the 'no longer entertained' camp seals it; without a gripe I gave up on buying Dungeons and Dragons books around 4th edition. After 20 years of serious play, no hard feelings, no nothing. I still occasionally engage in the hobby without further spending on my part.
The hobby is still phenomenal to me and all other miniature games lack many thing that GW does right.
Makumba wrote: but anyone under 18 or under 27 if he goes to an uni can get a "rig" refunded from the EU program for students.
O_O wot!
The are programs by EU, that let you do it. All you need to do is write some stuff they can review and if your living in some areas you don't even have to do that. And it works for a lot of stuff, there is a cultural program that supports people in rural areas. One guy got papers that he his official living place is his grandmothers house in eastern Poland, and every year he has to write a review with pictures of him playing w40k and WFB, and how helps him to spread culture around , and for that EU pays for his armies.
The same goes for PCs, you just have to say you want to work on design and send them plans of projects you want to do and you can get up to 100% return , some of it from EU some of it from local and central goverment.The only thing you can't do with them is sell them back. But even that can be avoided. You just have to get papers to be officialy living in a place where there was a flood or something like that , and report the rig as destoryed. This way next year you can get a new one. And because in english last times for males and females stay the same, and in slavic language they do not. If you have a brother or sister you can get two or more every year, raport one as destroyed another one as stolen , next year do it other way around and the people that are checking won't know that the family is the same, and offcialy your living in different places so your covered there too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/03 07:18:09
Mavnas wrote: You know... if trends continue, Sisters of Battle will keep not getting an update and eventually be one of the cheaper armies to pick up.
If you check at different shops in your travels, you often see sisters blisters on sale for pretty cheap.
This, however, is one of those cases for me where I scream, "TAKE MY DAMN MONEY". Just give us new plastic sisters for f's sake.
So how exactly are they so different that "A blind man with a stick could grope his way to the differences between them."? I have some of the old Assault Marines and they don't appear to have changed that much. What new options do they have besides the eviserator chainsword? Grav pistols? My Sternguard supplied me with those.
Basically, right now my FLGS has an older Assault Marine kit for $39.50 and a Skyclaw kit for $34. I'm much more tempted to save myself 24 bucks (before tax) and pick those up.
Then again, I also find myself wondering if I need more Assault Marines...
There is the counter point however, that if you buy 2 of the new AM kits (yes I did say two) and have 10 tacticals or older type marines lying around, you get enough bits in both boxes to make a full 10 man AM squad with weapons and jump packs and then a 10 man foot based AM unit with weapons.
That gives you 20 AMs for €66. Thats not half bad to be fair.
Granted it means two boxes and some older models to kitbash but for me thats not horrific.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
When was the last time assault marines were actualy used in sm lists, because I had to have been before 5th ed. Only assault marines I did see since I started to play were BA ones, and more offten then not they werent wearin jump packs.
Makumba wrote: When was the last time assault marines were actualy used in sm lists, because I had to have been before 5th ed. Only assault marines I did see since I started to play were BA ones, and more offten then not they werent wearin jump packs.
I field mine semi-reguarly. Normally just a 5 man stick with a pair of flamers and a vet sarge. If I’m using pods, odds are they are riding one, but I don’t do that all the time. Still work well with the jump packs.
So glad I am starting to edge away from GW and go with alternate models in my gaming group. My next almost all infantry IG army is being done with the fantastic bulk Warlord Bolt Action minis. 3 Boxes worth but still...
Is a FW squad of ten marines cheaper yet than GW marines? I think I will go look just for S&Gs.
I know we have said it many times in the past, but is GW trying to price itself out of the market?
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
Makumba wrote: When was the last time assault marines were actualy used in sm lists, because I had to have been before 5th ed. Only assault marines I did see since I started to play were BA ones, and more offten then not they werent wearin jump packs.
I field mine semi-reguarly. Normally just a 5 man stick with a pair of flamers and a vet sarge. If I’m using pods, odds are they are riding one, but I don’t do that all the time. Still work well with the jump packs.
But you can take bikers with flamers or strenguad with heavy flamers. Plus flamers are rather bad against anything other then IG, and sm don't need flamers to demolish IG armies. What are two flamers going to do something like orks, even if they jump out of a pod. They kill 7 or 8 boys and then get charged by a 60 sized super mob.
Blood Angels, 
Ultramarines,
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