Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So they showed more footage at quake con, but none leaked out. :( Still we did lean a few things like how what perks you can take is based on your special stats rather then level. (I am now 99% sure skills are gone.) There will be 70 different perks some with more then one level something like 170 in total then.

http://kotaku.com/10-things-we-learned-about-fallout-4-from-quakecon-2015-1720037170

I'm fine with the perks, though how do you level? I wonder if kills, hacking, etc go towards a generic exp meter which the player then chooses how to distribute, rather than going directly to specific skills. I'd imagine that you'd receive a handful of perk points per level then to even out your progression, considering that if you aren't given perks quickly then you'll stagnate at a same skill level.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I'm fine with the perks, though how do you level? I wonder if kills, hacking, etc go towards a generic exp meter which the player then chooses how to distribute, rather than going directly to specific skills. I'd imagine that you'd receive a handful of perk points per level then to even out your progression, considering that if you aren't given perks quickly then you'll stagnate at a same skill level.

No skills (far as I know.) All your actions go into a EXP bar and then when that fills up you level and get to pick a perk. (Yes one and with an assumed level cap of 30, ya they have way way more perks then you will be able to take.)

Its an evolution of what they did with Skyrim. With that they did away with the class system and merged how you gained exp into one pool. With this they've done away with the skill trees altogether. It'll surely piss off diehard fans of the series, but they're already frothing given the inane comments on NoMutantsAllowed. I'm fine with it however, as I am with a lot of things as there's too few decent RPGs out there, fewer still in the setting.

I can imagine that there'll be mods which expand the number of perks available and up the level (remember that New Vegas upped the level cap to 50 with DLC too). There'll eventually be ones which completely redo the system as well as was the case with Skyrim. Perks are certainly a different approach to leveling, we'll just have to see how the progression works out, but I can't see it being crap (though as I said I can see myself being happy with this game no matter what at this point).

nomotog wrote:
So they showed more footage at quake con, but none leaked out. :( Still we did lean a few things like how what perks you can take is based on your special stats rather then level. (I am now 99% sure skills are gone.) There will be 70 different perks some with more then one level something like 170 in total then.

http://kotaku.com/10-things-we-learned-about-fallout-4-from-quakecon-2015-1720037170

Huh, the perk system does sound interesting, but I'm going to miss skills.
Ah well, the combat skills were a bit dopey anyway.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Its an evolution of what they did with Skyrim. With that they did away with the class system and merged how you gained exp into one pool. With this they've done away with the skill trees altogether. It'll surely piss off diehard fans of the series, but they're already frothing given the inane comments on NoMutantsAllowed. I'm fine with it however, as I am with a lot of things as there's too few decent RPGs out there, fewer still in the setting.

I can imagine that there'll be mods which expand the number of perks available and up the level (remember that New Vegas upped the level cap to 50 with DLC too). There'll eventually be ones which completely redo the system as well as was the case with Skyrim. Perks are certainly a different approach to leveling, we'll just have to see how the progression works out, but I can't see it being crap (though as I said I can see myself being happy with this game no matter what at this point).

No. It's just what they did in fallout 3. Fallout never had classes. It always used this system (only with skills.) Fallout has always had a very different take on leveling then TES. In TES, you take every skill because nothing stops you from jumping up and down in place over and over to max out your jumping skill. In fallout, your more constricted because you have a limited number of levels, limited number of special points, skill points, perks. It's a completely different system then skyrim. (It bugs me that people keep assuming that fallout 4 is a continuation of skyrim. They really function differently on fundamental levels.)

I just hope I can make a character and keep playing my very first character without feeling compelled to restart to get the right S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats for the perks I want. Like right now, Intelligence seems as useless as the Fast Learner Perk, only giving extra XP so I might just leave it at 1, but if it turns out I need 5 Intelligence to get some other perks I want, well, I'm likely going to restart because that probably means I have to spend 4 perk points levieling Inteligence just to get the option of the 1 perk I want.

And if it turns out that lots of Perks are locked but S.P.E.C.I.A.L requirments then I'm gonna have to plan as early as possible, unlike Skyrim where you don't have to make a build before you know how you want to do it.

 Lotet wrote:
I just hope I can make a character and keep playing my very first character without feeling compelled to restart to get the right S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats for the perks I want. Like right now, Intelligence seems as useless as the Fast Learner Perk, only giving extra XP so I might just leave it at 1, but if it turns out I need 5 Intelligence to get some other perks I want, well, I'm likely going to restart because that probably means I have to spend 4 perk points levieling Inteligence just to get the option of the 1 perk I want.

And if it turns out that lots of Perks are locked but S.P.E.C.I.A.L requirments then I'm gonna have to plan as early as possible, unlike Skyrim where you don't have to make a build before you know how you want to do it.

All perks are locked to a special. (And intelligence has some nice perks too.) I don't think they will include the option to increase your special stats, or at least not by more then 1 or two points.

Oh? I was really expecting the Intense Training perk to be there or simply the ability to use perk points to increase S.P.E.C.I.A.L under any other name. It seemed only natural after seeing that evenly spreading your S.P.E.C.I.A.L points only results in have 4 in each stat.

 Lotet wrote:
Oh? I was really expecting the Intense Training perk to be there or simply the ability to use perk points to increase S.P.E.C.I.A.L under any other name. It seemed only natural after seeing that evenly spreading your S.P.E.C.I.A.L points only results in have 4 in each stat.

It might be, but I kind of doubt it. They basically want to make sure each character has a different build and plays differently. Letting you level up your special undermines that in a little.

Pff, yeah, a little. But if I'm spending points on S.P.E.C.I.A.L then I'm not spending it on the other stuff, so I'm still going to play different to other people.

nomotog wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Its an evolution of what they did with Skyrim. With that they did away with the class system and merged how you gained exp into one pool. With this they've done away with the skill trees altogether. It'll surely piss off diehard fans of the series, but they're already frothing given the inane comments on NoMutantsAllowed. I'm fine with it however, as I am with a lot of things as there's too few decent RPGs out there, fewer still in the setting.

I can imagine that there'll be mods which expand the number of perks available and up the level (remember that New Vegas upped the level cap to 50 with DLC too). There'll eventually be ones which completely redo the system as well as was the case with Skyrim. Perks are certainly a different approach to leveling, we'll just have to see how the progression works out, but I can't see it being crap (though as I said I can see myself being happy with this game no matter what at this point).

No. It's just what they did in fallout 3. Fallout never had classes. It always used this system (only with skills.) Fallout has always had a very different take on leveling then TES. In TES, you take every skill because nothing stops you from jumping up and down in place over and over to max out your jumping skill. In fallout, your more constricted because you have a limited number of levels, limited number of special points, skill points, perks. It's a completely different system then skyrim. (It bugs me that people keep assuming that fallout 4 is a continuation of skyrim. They really function differently on fundamental levels.)

There were classes in all the previous Elder Scrolls games, though, which is what they were talking about with the changes in Skyrim, and it sounds like FO4 is going to be an evolved version of Skyrim's system, though Skyrim did have Skills (those are the trees you buy your perks from). From the sounds of things, FO4 does away with leveling up the Skills to gain levels which grants perks to general XP earning for kills/quest completion that grants levels, which grants perks as new things you can do.

I just hope I can make a character and keep playing my very first character without feeling compelled to restart to get the right S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats for the perks I want. Like right now, Intelligence seems as useless as the Fast Learner Perk, only giving extra XP so I might just leave it at 1, but if it turns out I need 5 Intelligence to get some other perks I want, well, I'm likely going to restart because that probably means I have to spend 4 perk points levieling Inteligence just to get the option of the 1 perk I want.

In previous Fallout games, an INT 1 character could only speak in grunts.

If there's one stat that you want to have as many points in as possible (unless you're roleplaying) then its intelligence... At least in those games where speech matters (i.e. not Fallout 3). Being Black Isle/ Obsidian games you're a ninny if you don't have maxed out int and speech as there's so many situations where you can avoid combat entirely by talking your way out of the problem or using computers. That and you receive more points as you level up as well with a high int as you grasp the lessons better.

So aye, going into any RPG which has int as a stat and where it actually has an effect you really aught to be putting some points into it if not basing your leveling up entirely around it. Well at least in my own case. Typically my three SPECIAL stats are AGL, CHAR, and INT, so you can guess the sneaky/ talky way that I play my way through games. What? Hey the shooty, shooty way tends to lead to the bad ending (hey, remember that first level in Deus Ex where no matter how good a talker you are you'll still fail if you went in all guns blazing? ...Experiences like that kind of shape how a guy plays games for the rest of his life ).

* edit: Oh god I've become like BrookM with being referenced to as a "they" rather than a person. Hmn, as long as you don't use "it". XD

Yeah, Int was the most optimal stat in the early Fallout games.
Followed by Agililty, then perception.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

In previous Fallout games, an INT 1 character could only speak in grunts.

I missed that feature :(
Low Int character builds were pretty much the hard mode of the early fallout games, as you are not only incapable of communication, everyone treats you like gak as well.

Did someone say hardmode on low Int? We like to call it pure comedy gold!

http://lparchive.org/Fallout-2/Update%201/

 BrookM wrote:
Did someone say hardmode on low Int? We like to call it pure comedy gold!

http://lparchive.org/Fallout-2/Update%201/

I never said it wasn't funny

Edit : Oh god this is hilarious xD

 Psienesis wrote:

nomotog wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Its an evolution of what they did with Skyrim. With that they did away with the class system and merged how you gained exp into one pool. With this they've done away with the skill trees altogether. It'll surely piss off diehard fans of the series, but they're already frothing given the inane comments on NoMutantsAllowed. I'm fine with it however, as I am with a lot of things as there's too few decent RPGs out there, fewer still in the setting.

I can imagine that there'll be mods which expand the number of perks available and up the level (remember that New Vegas upped the level cap to 50 with DLC too). There'll eventually be ones which completely redo the system as well as was the case with Skyrim. Perks are certainly a different approach to leveling, we'll just have to see how the progression works out, but I can't see it being crap (though as I said I can see myself being happy with this game no matter what at this point).

No. It's just what they did in fallout 3. Fallout never had classes. It always used this system (only with skills.) Fallout has always had a very different take on leveling then TES. In TES, you take every skill because nothing stops you from jumping up and down in place over and over to max out your jumping skill. In fallout, your more constricted because you have a limited number of levels, limited number of special points, skill points, perks. It's a completely different system then skyrim. (It bugs me that people keep assuming that fallout 4 is a continuation of skyrim. They really function differently on fundamental levels.)

There were classes in all the previous Elder Scrolls games, though, which is what they were talking about with the changes in Skyrim, and it sounds like FO4 is going to be an evolved version of Skyrim's system, though Skyrim did have Skills (those are the trees you buy your perks from). From the sounds of things, FO4 does away with leveling up the Skills to gain levels which grants perks to general XP earning for kills/quest completion that grants levels, which grants perks as new things you can do.

I just hope I can make a character and keep playing my very first character without feeling compelled to restart to get the right S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats for the perks I want. Like right now, Intelligence seems as useless as the Fast Learner Perk, only giving extra XP so I might just leave it at 1, but if it turns out I need 5 Intelligence to get some other perks I want, well, I'm likely going to restart because that probably means I have to spend 4 perk points levieling Inteligence just to get the option of the 1 perk I want.

In previous Fallout games, an INT 1 character could only speak in grunts.

No no no. Fallout 4 doesn't do away with leveling skills to gain levels. it never had that system to start with.

It had it inversely, in that you gained Skills by gaining Levels (and could use said Skills for XP rewards, which meant more Levels for more Skills).

 Psienesis wrote:
It had it inversely, in that you gained Skills by gaining Levels (and could use said Skills for XP rewards, which meant more Levels for more Skills).

Well that it still has. Far as i know.

So nothing has changed then?

Gain XP through Doing Stuff. Gain Level, spend points on Skills, get Perk every X number of levels to Do More Stuff?

 Psienesis wrote:
So nothing has changed then?

Gain XP through Doing Stuff. Gain Level, spend points on Skills, get Perk every X number of levels to Do More Stuff?

Oh the big change is now there are no skills. You have perks doing what skills use to (and I assuming still doing what perks do. (They might still have skills I mean they haven't really made it clear far as I know.)

The problem with flat leveling up systems from a non-gameplay perspective: "I just stabbed that guy in the face. Woah how do I know how to program computers now!?".

I'm also hoping the leveling system is somewhat transparent. It'd russle my jimmies if I made an INT 5 build to get the Science Perk only to find out each rank requires more and more INT. Or to try to make a melee build and find out I need INT 9 + Science or something to fully upgrade my Sophisticated Super Sledge, which I assume is something I'll only find out many hours in when I can get my hands on one.

 Lotet wrote:
I'm also hoping the leveling system is somewhat transparent. It'd russle my jimmies if I made an INT 5 build to get the Science Perk only to find out each rank requires more and more INT. Or to try to make a melee build and find out I need INT 9 + Science or something to fully upgrade my Sophisticated Super Sledge, which I assume is something I'll only find out many hours in when I can get my hands on one.

Ya. I kind of think that might be the case. Maybe not with the perks themselves, but odds favorte you will make your first character, then run into something you want to do but can't because you built yourself wrong. It's the waffle game-play trope. You always throw out the first one.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
The problem with flat leveling up systems from a non-gameplay perspective: "I just stabbed that guy in the face. Woah how do I know how to program computers now!?".

Well, its like this - his eye is the port, and the knife is the usb

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
The problem with flat leveling up systems from a non-gameplay perspective: "I just stabbed that guy in the face. Woah how do I know how to program computers now!?".

Well, its like this - his eye is the port, and the knife is the usb

Ah... so that's why you had to stab him three times, flipping the knife over before each thrust, before it finally went in

Decided to pre-order the game at a local retailer, €48, - for the game plus OST, beats paying €60,- over at Steam for the game, minus OST or anything else.

The OST comes included with the game though? At least if you're playing it on the PC.

Well, there store where I placed the pre-order made special mention that the OST comes with it, something I didn't see on the Steam page.

Hmn, I'm not sure if they've moved over to a new format now, but with older games you could just go into the files and play each of the tracks. Its how you installed music mods, you just dumped in .mp3 files into the music folder. Now that I think about it though I think they changed over to a different type of file though, which you can play on your computer, but IIRC not with the standard Windows Media Player (though you could convert them to .MP3). Easier obviously to have them in a playable format already, but I'm surprised that somewhere's bothering to include the files again, just in a different format.