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Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.

This [MOD EDIT - Do NOT 'workaround' the Expletive Filter - Alpharius] thing right here.

FW experimental rules, always overpowered.

Although their official rules do tend to be pretty balanced (often more so than GW's).

Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."

Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.

Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alleus wrote:
Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."

Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.

I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.

Why cant the OP edit the main post instead of saying "page 13"? Right now the page selection is 1, 2, 3, ... 24, 25, 26

Its just more organized to have it on the main page.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alleus wrote:
Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."

Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.

I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.

That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.

 agnosto wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alleus wrote:
Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."

Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.

I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.

That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.

So if a Tau'Nar was hit four times by a Warhound Titan's D-Pie Plates and suffered 4 Deathblows, would the attacks be resolved simultaneously and the shield go down after all 4 Death Blows are halved?

The shots are all one simultaneous attack, unless they come from different types of weapons.

 wyomingfox wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alleus wrote:
Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."

Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.

I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.

That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.

So if a Tau'Nar was hit four times by a Warhound Titan's D-Pie Plates and suffered 4 Deathblows, would the attacks be resolved simultaneously and the shield go down after all 4 Death Blows are halved?

Good question. I can't recall if there are rules for multiple weapon hits/effects. My gut (which is often wrong unless pizza is involved) tells me that you'd split the shots between the weapons. 2 shots from weapon one are both deathblows so you'd get the 1/2 for those but not for the second weapon. On the other hand, I can see Jeffar's argument that all shooting is simultaneous so any deathblows from the same unit/model would be halved but if you hit it later in the shooting phase with something else and get a deathblow, the 1/2 wouldn't apply.

Yes, all 4 deathblows will be halved, as all of each units (ranged) weapons attack simultaneously. THEN, the shield goes down.

Gonna post the same thing here that I did in the Forge World thread.

Honestly this thing seems pretty fair (for a Titan at least) in terms of power for it's points cost.

T9 is actually easier to wound than AV14 (AV14 needs a minimum of S8 to glance, while T9 needs S6 I think?). Yeah it has 10 wounds, but that seems in line with the rest of the Titans available. The 2+ isn't a big deal, if you're hitting a Titan with a sub AP2 weapon, either something has gone horribly wrong or you're doing it wrong. The GC status plus the invul does make it pretty survivable, but nothing insane, a 4++ followed by FNP is certainly not unheard of in normal 40k.

The big thing I think people might be missing is that it's a GC, meaning it can only shoot 2 of it's weapons at a time, right? So, in an average turn of shooting against a heavy target, it's only shooting the equivalent of 3 Lascannons and a single D blast. Coming from a 600pt Titan, that is not a lot of firepower at all. Yeah, this guy will wreck hordes and SM, but Tau have always been able to do that, Tau aren't getting new capabilities, just a new tool to do the things they already could.

Is the KX139 good? Of course it is, never gonna deny that. Is it OP? Right now, without any time at the table with it, I'm gonna say no. It's pretty survivable, and can put out some heavy firepower depending on the circumstances, but as long as you are going after it with proper anti-Titan/GC weaponry and units (S D, Fleshbane, S8+, AP2, Grav, etc.) I don't see this guy running train on your army.

Additional thoughts:

The KX139 seems to suffer from the opposite problem every other Tau unit does; It has awesome survivability, but limited firepower, while every other Tau has awesome firepower, but limited survivability. Seems to me that this thing was meant to provide board presence, the immovable rock at the center of the Tau line. Which actually fits in perfectly with it's fluff (which I actually do like, it makes a lot of sense for this big guy to be limited to strictly defensive positions on conquered worlds to hold the line until reinforcements arrive). Overall I like it. I do wish it had some better anti-Titan/SH/GC capabilities, but I am satisfied with what we got. A good unit that will certainly see field time, but not another OP mess.

You raise a good point.

Personally, my only real disappointment with the thing is that those pulse drivers aren't railguns.

Not sure what you're smoking if you think this is just mediocre. This suit is outrageously good.

Come on. 600 points for an incredibly survivable platform. 10 wounds at T9, 2+, 4++, 5+ FNP and extra protection vs D is ridonkilous. Absolutely ridiculous. This thing can easily be compared with the most overpowered (points efficient) big unit in 40K, the Wraithknight. It brings so much for the points.

Don't compare this with Revenants or Warhounds or Reavers, since it's a lot cheaper. That is, unless you're going to give this guy an extra Broadside team or a Riptide or half a dozen suicide deep strike double fusion blaster Crisis suits to help him since those can be bought with the price difference.

As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.

Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.

All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.

An interesting thing about the Ion Cannons - they have a Standard and Concentrated mode, instead of Standard and Overcharge. That could point towards a change to all Ion weaponry in the coming Tau book.

Hmm, this really should have been a SHW. The number and different roles of weapons would have gone well there. With three crew, it should be able to fire its main guns and its point defense.

I think the fusion gun works good. maybe a little more range and fewer shots, 30"/3, fitting with Tau fusion blasters.

The dumb Ion cannon arms have pretty good rules, but the beam mode needs "Gets hot".

The pulse driver. Its current modes are good, but it appears as if the guns can be leveled. If it truly is meant to take on titans, then it should have a direct fire mode: 3x shots with the same profile as the 7" blast.

Those rules would have been sensible I think.


Still looks stupid though.

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
Gonna post the same thing here that I did in the Forge World thread.

Honestly this thing seems pretty fair (for a Titan at least) in terms of power for it's points cost.

T9 is actually easier to wound than AV14 (AV14 needs a minimum of S8 to glance, while T9 needs S6 I think?). Yeah it has 10 wounds, but that seems in line with the rest of the Titans available. The 2+ isn't a big deal, if you're hitting a Titan with a sub AP2 weapon, either something has gone horribly wrong or you're doing it wrong. The GC status plus the invul does make it pretty survivable, but nothing insane, a 4++ followed by FNP is certainly not unheard of in normal 40k.

It's significantly fewer points than a Warhound titan, and while technically at a lower "T" value than AV14, between FNP, the armor and invul saves, it's going to be notably more survivable. There's lots of weapons that one might turn against such a creature which won't ignore its armor save either, Krak Missiles, Manticore Rockets, Basilisk shells, Hades Autocannons, Rokkits, Rupture Cannons, etc.

Relative to something like a Baneblade with sponsons, it's got more firepower, is probably twice as durable, significantly more mobile, and is only 25pts more.

The big thing I think people might be missing is that it's a GC, meaning it can only shoot 2 of it's weapons at a time, right?

It can shoot all of it's weapons, and at different targets.

The KX139 seems to suffer from the opposite problem every other Tau unit does; It has awesome survivability, but limited firepower,

12 S7 shots, two burst cannons, two missile pods, and a 7" D pieplate or 3 Battlecannon shots that ignore cover is not really limited firepower, it's pretty analgous to something like a Warhound armed with a Vulcan Megabolter and Turbolaser.

40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.

In any case, people should be comparing it to the gold standard of cheese currently, the Wraithknight, and to a lesser extent the Imperial Knight.

Just a reminder. a Gargantuan Creature can fire ALL weapons just like any superheavy. It will gun-kata across the board like the best of them.


On the whole, this guy looks and feels a lot like a Titan, and actually is pretty close to the Warhound in terms of firepower, and easily outdoes the Cerastus and Knight titan when it comes to firepower.

I would have liked to see more weapon options, but the fusion weapon is QUITE nice, 5 shots at 24? hell yeah. Total of 10 fusion shots at 8/1 melta, 12 shots at 7/3, or 6 shots at 9/2.

The top gun is great, and I love the apoc barrage option. The massive blast is great too!

Frankly there is -nothing- I -don't- like about this guy, the barrier shield is even better...

Because you know someone will try to hit you with the D, but this is the first example of a true Cockblock in the game.

 Therion wrote:
.

As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.

Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.

All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.

You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?



That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.

 warboss wrote:
40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.

In any case, people should be comparing it to the gold standard of cheese currently, the Wraithknight, and to a lesser extent the Imperial Knight.

That or scrap the glancing hits part and make it so only the shots that penetrate, destroy the vehicle?

40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.

^I want to agree, only thing is they would have to introduce toughnesses higher than 10 in order to implement vehicles properly (the point of the vehicle armor system is 2-fold, one is to limit the number of weapons capable of damaging it, the other is to introduce a maneuver element whereby a vehicle can become more or less vulnerable to enemy fire dpending on how its placed. Making all vehicles toughness/wound based would eliminate that second consideration).

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.

This fukken thing right here.

Would that same squad have a chance in hell of taking down a reaver in a single turn, or a fething warlord? Would anyone really expect it to?

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Therion wrote:
.

As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.

Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.

All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.

You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?



That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.

Does the Warhound also put out 12 Strength 7 AP3 shots/6 Strength 9 AP2 shots at 60" and 16 S5 AP5 shots, 8 of which are Twin-Linked at 18", 8 of which Ignore Cover at 30"? Is the Warhound harder to kill?
The answer to both questions is "no". Your argument is silly.

Yeah, it adds an extra level of awesome. I love that thing, and I love the sense of chance and carpet bombing it gives.

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Therion wrote:
.

As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.

Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.

All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.

You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?



That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.

Zelnik wrote:
Just a reminder. a Gargantuan Creature can fire ALL weapons just like any superheavy. It will gun-kata across the board like the best of them.


On the whole, this guy looks and feels a lot like a Titan, and actually is pretty close to the Warhound in terms of firepower, and easily outdoes the Cerastus and Knight titan when it comes to firepower.

I would have liked to see more weapon options, but the fusion weapon is QUITE nice, 5 shots at 24? hell yeah. Total of 10 fusion shots at 8/1 melta, 12 shots at 7/3, or 6 shots at 9/2.

The top gun is great, and I love the apoc barrage option. The massive blast is great too!

Frankly there is -nothing- I -don't- like about this guy, the barrier shield is even better...

Because you know someone will try to hit you with the D, but this is the first example of a true Cockblock in the game.

5 shots at 12 if you want tthe melta rule. I probably would not run the eradicator because then i have to run it up the board and get it locked in combat by a cheap unit and not shoot for a turn

 Sidstyler wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.

This fukken thing right here.

Would that same squad have a chance in hell of taking down a reaver in a single turn, or a fething warlord? Would anyone really expect it to?

A Reaver is more than 2x the cost, a Warlord more than 4x.

Against the Ta'nar, those 15 BS3 lascannons are on average putting 1 wound on the thing between its invul and FNP, while against a Reaver they'd take down two voidshields *and* likely put at least 1 wound on it (well, 3 every 2 technically on average), and without the voidshields would be *doubling* their HP inflicting on the Reaver over what they'd inflict on the Ta'unar in Wounds.

Yay, my harridan costs 135 more points.its also weaker in every single way.

My usual games involve a guy who runs triptide, so I can see one of these being added to his list.
Amazing model though and a shame I don't play tau anymore.

Getting in close combat with a Gargy is the height of stupid. Stomp attacks don't rely on BS and can remove things from play without saves. you only survive if you are another gargy.

The Tau'Nar is the first Gargy with a real defense system, so far the others simply rely on the innate FNP and fearless to keep them alive (maybe a 5+ invul here and there).

Your Harridan is a flying gargy... so I would not call it 'worse in every way'. It also spawns more units. It's not 'weaker' it's different.

Also, the Tau'Nar can't attack fliers with it's 72 inch long D.

chaos0xomega wrote:

40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.

^I want to agree, only thing is they would have to introduce toughnesses higher than 10 in order to implement vehicles properly (the point of the vehicle armor system is 2-fold, one is to limit the number of weapons capable of damaging it, the other is to introduce a maneuver element whereby a vehicle can become more or less vulnerable to enemy fire dpending on how its placed. Making all vehicles toughness/wound based would eliminate that second consideration).

I'd be fine with that but the topic might best be left to another thread (and I'm sorry for my part in possibly derailing the Tau rumor thread).