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 Gamgee wrote:
I told everyone the new codex was going to be bad. No one listened to me though.

Our only hope is those formation, and if they're just getting jettisoned into some side book with such little change I have very little hope.

Well the Tau are effectively being gutted. Thanks a lot whiners for making us not get any buffs to stay competitive. Now instead of hoping for everyone to be buffed to the same level as Eldar/Necrons/Marines your keeping some of the codices down here and some up there and some over there all at wildly different levels of balance.

Games Workshop. NEVER listen to your idiot fans again with an exception to confirmed competitive players. I liked you better that way.

I seen the proposed rules for the 1 Ghostkeel and 3 stealth suits formation? Sucks so bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LowVhCfLm68#t=0m41s

Dude...seriously stop. You haven't even seen a quarter of the codex yet

Requizen wrote:

Is it any less reasonable than expecting the entire army to change because you don't like how it plays? If you dislike the entire book, then why spend your time on it, hoping that it's going to get a complete overhaul when history has shown that it almost never happens?

I haven't spent my time & money with the current book. I spent it all with the old book, and then the army was changed to parody of itself which I have zero desire to play anymore.

Sadly, it looks like the next book is going to be built over the Vetock codex. Well, the Tau was dead to me already so it's not like there's much to lose anymore.

 Gamgee wrote:


Well the Tau are effectively being gutted. Thanks a lot whiners for making us not get any buffs to stay competitive.

This is so laughable. Blaming players for not whining enough to force GW to give the Tau buffs?

GW does what GW wants. They don't listen to anyone except money.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about people complaining tau are too good, not bad...

The old fire warriors kit has finally been removed from the site

RIP in pieces in peace

I suspect the White Scars will get some formations too if the Kauyon books are set in the Damocles Crusade.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about people complaining tau are too good, not bad...

Yeah, I can see that...

Either way, his notion is ridiculous.

Rough translation of the Pinion Company formation powers:

For every Scout squad and Scout Bike squad from this formation placed in reserve, choose another unit in the formation and place it in reserve as well. When the Scout/Scout Bike squad comes in from reserve, its partner unit comes in as well. If the Scout/Scout Bike squad uses Outflank, its partner unit does so as well, appearing on the same board edge, even if that unit can not normally Outflank. The partner unit has the Stealth special rule on the turn it enters the board, as long as it is placed within 9 inches of the partnered Scout unit.

In the shooting phase, every Scout Sergeant and Scout Veteran Sergeant in this formation can choose another unit from the formation within 9 inches. The weapons of the chosen unit have the Ignore Cover special rule until the end of the Shooting Phase.

It looks like the Shadowstrike Kill Team does the following (2-4 Scouts + 1-5 Vanguards, you chose to fail or succeed reserve rolls for the Vanguards, they don't scatter within 9" of the scouts, they can charge the turn they DS)
Taken from http://astropate.blogspot.com/2015/10/nuovo-impero-tau-uscite-della-settimana.html#more

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Can someone translate the german please?

The first Formation: Pinion
1 Captain or Chaplain ( Your normal Captain cannot take a Terminator Armor and some Special Characters are allowed to replace your normal Captain or Chaplain )
0-1 Command Squad
Looks like 3 or 5 Tactical Squads
1Assault Squad
1 Devastor Squad
1-3 or 5 Scout and/or Scout Bike Squads

Rules:
Lets Scouts in Reserve take another unit with them. When the Scouts deploy you can deploy the second unit within 9''.
Scouts can give another unit within 9'' "ignores cover".


The Second Formation: Shadowstrike
2-4 Scout Squads
1-3 or again 5 Vanquard Veteran Squads ( All of them have to take Jump Packs )

Rules
Vanguards in reserve can choose if they deploy or not.
Vanguards don't scatter if they deploy via deepstrike whithin 9'' of two Scout Squads of that formation
Vanguards can attack after they deployed via deepstrike

Sigh no field relay for strike team :(. At least they didnt made them worse, just no change at all to normal firewarriors (except being able to use the turrety thing).

I would expect the Kauyon book to basically be the same thing as Exterminatus was to Blood Angels. Hopefully with better execution though. If it has all the updated rules from the codex, I wouldn't mind the same thing happening to more armies (Blood Angels included).

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Besides, what kind of argument is "It's been bad for a while so it defaults to good"?
If a complaint carries over from the previous codex, then it still stands as a complaint now. Ork players rightfully bemoan their inability to tackle heavy armor, which is something that was a problem in previous editions.

No one ever said that.

And Tau aren't bad. Riptides are crazy good. FSC is such a good formation that other armies take it. Fire Warriors are some of the best objective camping units in the game. Farsight Bomb still sees play. Tau may not be as flashy as Knights, Super Friends, or Eldar, but they still show up in competitive games and are a solid book on the whole.

The only people I ever see saying that Tau are weak are Tau players. Everyone else (aside from Eldar) generally considers them an even fight, if not more difficult.

Tau used to be roughly on par with Eldar in 6th edition. Then 7th hit, and some of the Tau tricks were nerfed, and the Eldar 7th book was made so much better that having Tau stay on roughly the same level as before, means a relative nerf compared to Eldar. And it doesn't help that at the same time FW has improved Eldar even more, and made Corsairs into what Dark Eldar would be if they were written by the same team that wrote Codex Eldar.

Anyone else notice strike teams remain at 12 per unit, while breachers are 10.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Tau used to be roughly on par with Eldar in 6th edition. Then 7th hit, and some of the Tau tricks were nerfed, and the Eldar 7th book was made so much better that having Tau stay on roughly the same level as before, means a relative nerf compared to Eldar. And it doesn't help that at the same time FW has improved Eldar even more, and made Corsairs into what Dark Eldar would be if they were written by the same team that wrote Codex Eldar.

Eldar is a bad measuring stick, its so far above everything else its silly.

In the Shadowstrike formation rules, is there anything that says the units have to be using the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics?

Saying an army is bad compared to Eldar is like saying an M4 is a bad gun because nuclear weapons exist.

 jetstumpy wrote:
In the Shadowstrike formation rules, is there anything that says the units have to be using the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics?

Can we take the RG questions to another topic please?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Tau used to be roughly on par with Eldar in 6th edition. Then 7th hit, and some of the Tau tricks were nerfed, and the Eldar 7th book was made so much better that having Tau stay on roughly the same level as before, means a relative nerf compared to Eldar. And it doesn't help that at the same time FW has improved Eldar even more, and made Corsairs into what Dark Eldar would be if they were written by the same team that wrote Codex Eldar.

In 6th, it wasn't really Tau that were strong, it was that you could ally Eldar onto them and Taudar was freaking broken, because an army that's built around being strong without Psychic buffs suddenly getting Psychic buffs is going to be good. The things that worked in 6e vanilla Tau work in 7e vanilla Tau, for the most part.

 jetstumpy wrote:
In the Shadowstrike formation rules, is there anything that says the units have to be using the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics?

I couldn't find any mentioning of Chapter Tactics in the Formation.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Tau used to be roughly on par with Eldar in 6th edition. Then 7th hit, and some of the Tau tricks were nerfed, and the Eldar 7th book was made so much better that having Tau stay on roughly the same level as before, means a relative nerf compared to Eldar. And it doesn't help that at the same time FW has improved Eldar even more, and made Corsairs into what Dark Eldar would be if they were written by the same team that wrote Codex Eldar.

I don't want Tau to be on par with Eldar, because frankly this new codex of theirs is out of this world. Now, Necrons, SM and DA got some lovely buffs to many units, while Tau will remain with some new things (which do a lot of stuff other units already do) but hardly changes in units, as the WD seems to infer. That's not what Tau players were waiting - buffs to stuff like Kroot, Vespid and Stealth Suits, while nerfs to Riptides and Markerlight. At least we'll probably get vehicle squadrons - I hope.

Not being on par with the most OP book in the edition is totally ok. Not being on par with the most played faction, which has a very good book (SM)... that is a problem to my eyes.

Anyway, let's see what the codex and the Kauyon book really bring.

Easy way to not have to worry about the Eldar comparison is simply this: avoid them.
Their army is the epitome of bs because they get so much crap out of nowhere that makes no sense for them to have. Their 7th ed book only made it worse.

Only eldar player in my area rarely gets games because everyone is sick and tired of that cheesy army. And thats even without wraith spam.
Eldar need a nerfhammer hardcore, start with removing the Str D spam crap. Nothing needs to be brought to their level because their level puts a lot of forgeworld apoc crap to shame. Even said Eldar player i mentioned earlier doesnt like it.

The main power in 6th for Tau was the Taudar cheese strat, which was removed rightly so because that was bs. It cheaply removed the drawback of the Riptide and reliably too. Buffmander + Ovesa Star was so expensive it wasnt really that much of a boon, especially with the increasing ways to kill a riptide reliably.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Anyone else notice strike teams remain at 12 per unit, while breachers are 10.

great catch!

My two simultanious throught are:

1. Hooray, they Are keeping a semblance of the Tau unit organizational system!

AND

2. How stupid to have a difference in how the two types of FIRE WARRIORs use different squad sizes. (just now realizing that the old 4-8 Pathfinder units changed last edition to 4-10, already setting this (obviously Ordos Xenos) infiltration into the Tau empire via Decimal system....

huh...

Maybe the reason they switched squad sizes was because gw thinks we are to stupid to figure things like 25% casualties without a nice easy number to base it off of?

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
Maybe the reason they switched squad sizes was because gw thinks we are to stupid to figure things like 25% casualties without a nice easy number to base it off of?

10 actually makes that worse.

25% of 12 = 3 models. Nice and easy.

25% of 10 = 2.5 models. Still 3 models, but now its fractional.

Lost count how many times ive pulled my phone out for a quick calc on that when playing my Orks lol. Tau units are all either 3s or 12s which are easy to remember (or alone)

 Vineheart01 wrote:

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
Maybe the reason they switched squad sizes was because gw thinks we are to stupid to figure things like 25% casualties without a nice easy number to base it off of?

10 actually makes that worse.

I'm guessing the OP meant their comment lightheartedly, but I thought the same thing!

Jokes on us though, because the new kit only builds 10 dudes, even though you can field 12 in a strike squad. Well played GW (not that I need any more firewarriors, but some people might).

MoD_Legion wrote:
Jokes on us though, because the new kit only builds 10 dudes, even though you can field 12 in a strike squad. Well played GW (not that I need any more firewarriors, but some people might).

This has come up a lot, but realistically...

There's a "loose" Fire Warrior in the Devilfish APC/Hammerhead/Skyray boxes.

So no pics of the codex, and this thread has turned into the same ole haters...

"waghh, GW hates me and wants to sell me models"
and/or
"Tau are going to be terrible, I can tell already, even though the codex isnt out yet"