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 Mike1975 wrote:


Pretty much my thinking as well. But since this opinion does not line up with some others, our opinion is belittled.

No, Mike. It's just some of us have the ability to read the writing on the wall and see that wave two isn't happening. And I'm perfectly happy to see PB put out of everyone's misery.

Talizvar may have a very strong point there; this is the largest captive audience they've had in years, possibly decades.

As I've noted before, the largest number of concurrent users they've ever had on their forums was 225 over 10 years ago. They very likely had more concurrent users on the KS comments (dozens upon dozens of people commenting, which means piles more lurking).

The 5.4k backers is nearly half their entire forum population.

The 92k+ comments on the main chain plus tens of thousands more across hundreds of updates is easily 10-20%+ of their entire forum population across 15 years (this new forum seems to have launched in or around Oct 2000).

Broadly speaking, this is a larger audience that has given them more money and attention than they've had in years.

Annoying as some people might be, until the BBB and AG's started getting taps on their shoulders, this may have been the greatest thing that every happened to them. Even whiny backers are still people talking about Palladium, yay!

It's only now with actual potential consequences looming that they might have to rethink what they're doing and saying (or not doing and not saying), and even as someone who isn't out to 'destroy PB' or whatever melodramatic donkeyhattery we wish to use, if this is the stick that spurs them to motion, I can't really complain.

We have tried the carrot already. Repeatedly. We have asked nicely, we have waited patiently, some more quietly and patiently than others. 2 years late. 3 years late or more for delivery looking likely. 6 months of silence on wave 2. 10 fething weeks since Wayne was allegedly going to compile data about wave 2.

That's not a minor thing. 10 weeks. 10 newsletters. 50'ish business days and no answers. And we shouldn't be the only ones angry; THEY should be angry! Who the hell are they working with that can't get back to them in 2.5 days, let alone 2.5 months?

 Forar wrote:
Also the SDF (number omitted, still scaring test audiences) being painted in a garish mockery of the American flag will turn some heads, but luckily in 3D it's almost kind of worth the nausea.

Pfft. Hater.

Maybe they can creatively do it with region coding, so if you watch it in Canada it'll have a gigantic maple leaf on its chest and the Daedalus attack will involve a hockey stick.

 warboss wrote:

If Palladium promised either of those, we'd be "lucky" to actually get 3 years later Kevin Siembieda or NMI incompletely wrapped in old Italian Lira singles... and they're going commando.

Now that I'd have paid extra for! Kev delivering my W2 PERSONALLY, 5 years late, but commando and covered in Lira of any denomination, HELL YES!

1/ Lira of any denomination are worthless as Italy is in the Euro and has been for some years, so Lira would be dry and very flammable by now.

but mainly

2/ It would be my only chance, on behalf of us all, to find out if Unicorn Farts are indeed flammable!

Yes, I'd take that hit for the team, we need to know these things!

Fullback wrote:

and your suggestion is??? Sue just to get some satisfaction/revenge and guarantee yourself to never see anything else? It's a slim chance or none.

PB allready guarantte me, that i will see nothing anyway.
As an internal backer i will see even less. (wow even less than nothing)

What do you think we have to loose?


We have a better chance going to vegas without a penny and becoming millionaire than getting any wave 2 stuff form PB.

So what do i have to loose, other thatn the satisfaction that justice struck them down?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what solution do you want?

You are the best example.
You work your arse off for this game for nothing.

You and james did the majority of promotion for this game?
What has PB done? Anythging nearly equal? Guess not.
What solution do you have to get those lazy producer to promote the game?
Is your solution to this problem to work harder and promote the game more, so that maybe even PB would become interesset in the game?


You want solution from me how to solve any wave 2 problem?
i Don´t even have a solution, how to get an honest anwser from them?
What do you think we can do, so that they will produce anything?

We are running out of option.
Waiting without any information and just listening to their soons (tm) isn´t an option anymore.
Trying to talk to them without getting answers isn´t an option anymore

As i said WE, THE ONES WHO PAID, are running out of options to explain our patience for waiting.

Why bring any solutions, when they PB doesn´t listen to them anyway.

besides, how many months now , since you, mike, submitted the conventional rules?

Let me look....I sent the re-write on 7/10.....they had them before that and asked me to make some changes.

I'm frustrated too. I've asked about wave 2 several times till I gave up asking. So while I understand other people being frustrated, I see things much like Orlandothetechnicolored. It's a slim chance or sue out of frustration and get zip. I do understand the plight of both sides in this. Neither is completely right or wrong. I just choose to stand on one side where I see some chance of success.

 warboss wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
and your suggestion is??? Sue just to get some satisfaction/revenge and guarantee yourself to never see anything else? It's a slim chance or none.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Complaining is interesting....but I'd like to see solutions.

still thinking?

I don't see any either.

Taking action (however impotent) against palladium is a solution; it's just a solution that you don't like though. At this point, some folks (not me, at least not yet) find that the likelihood of getting anything from wave 2 is fast approaching zero so the only closure or satisfaction they'll get from this project will be to give Palladium what they deserve. It's a judgement call based on varying priorities (like the "Pledging for Robotech, $140...ruining Palladium's BBB rep....priceless!" commercials) so you or I don't have to agree.. but they are doing something.

And that's basically the point. People have differing levels of patience when it comes to things like this. For some people, their patience is done. For others, it's just not yet. But unless you're literally willing to never receive anything and are happy to have let Kevin try and fail, but otherwise carry on in his business as usual, there's a timeframe you won't find acceptable. Is six months more of "soon" unacceptable? A year? Five? Twenty? Fifty?

Sure, some people might want to just see PB burn. But there's definitely another factor involved that the "Lawsuits = PB Bankruptcy" argument seems to gloss over. Which is, until the AG steps in, or a substantial class action happens, it's quite possible that some people MIGHT get their money back. I wouldn't wager it's probable, but it MAY be more likely than Wave 2 happening at all, even without threat of litigation. It's the way of the world. Much like a bank run, or a stock market collapse, the people that get out first are usually the people that don't get completely hosed before everything goes to crap. Is it a selfish approach? Sure, it can be seen that way. But altruism isn't the overriding principle of investment. Yeah, yeah, Kickstarter isn't an investment, just like it's not a store, and it's not this or that. But you know what else it's not? It's not a straight up charity either. The TOS regarding rewards makes that abundantly clear.

And let's be clear, though some people may be "jumping the gun" from the perspective of those still willing to wait, it's been brought about by Palladium's reluctance to explain themselves. If PB had done even a half-assed job, most of this would be a moot point. Almost six weeks since the last actual update. Six months since the last real one. Twelve plus months since the one before that. If PB haven't done enough that they've got "nothing to show" (first post-Gencon PBWU) of Wave 2 after six months of "actively working on it" (according to their BBB responses), then why should anyone believe they have been actively working on it?

Simply put, at this point. Asking hasn't worked. Begging hasn't worked. Yelling hasn't worked. There's not much left that can be done, except in the immortal words of the recently departed Roddy Piper, "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass", and for some, they're all out of bubblegum.

 Forar wrote:
Talizvar may have a very strong point there; this is the largest captive audience they've had in years, possibly decades.

As I've noted before, the largest number of concurrent users they've ever had on their forums was 225 over 10 years ago. They very likely had more concurrent users on the KS comments (dozens upon dozens of people commenting, which means piles more lurking).

The 5.4k backers is nearly half their entire forum population.

The 92k+ comments on the main chain plus tens of thousands more across hundreds of updates is easily 10-20%+ of their entire forum population across 15 years (this new forum seems to have launched in or around Oct 2000).

Broadly speaking, this is a larger audience that has given them more money and attention than they've had in years.

Annoying as some people might be, until the BBB and AG's started getting taps on their shoulders, this may have been the greatest thing that every happened to them. Even whiny backers are still people talking about Palladium, yay!

It's only now with actual potential consequences looming that they might have to rethink what they're doing and saying (or not doing and not saying), and even as someone who isn't out to 'destroy PB' or whatever melodramatic donkeyhattery we wish to use, if this is the stick that spurs them to motion, I can't really complain.

We have tried the carrot already. Repeatedly. We have asked nicely, we have waited patiently, some more quietly and patiently than others. 2 years late. 3 years late or more for delivery looking likely. 6 months of silence on wave 2. 10 fething weeks since Wayne was allegedly going to compile data about wave 2.

That's not a minor thing. 10 weeks. 10 newsletters. 50'ish business days and no answers. And we shouldn't be the only ones angry; THEY should be angry! Who the hell are they working with that can't get back to them in 2.5 days, let alone 2.5 months?

That is true, they do have the largest audience they have had in years. If they don't watch out it is turning into a lynch mob and Kevin is the head of the local coven......

well how do I start this off, hmm, oh ok, yeah:

1: Mike your an enabler, you enable PB to continue doing what they are doing and allowing them to do it, you enable them by helping them, its one thing if you were doing what your doing and PB was also doing something, but they are doing nothing and letting you do all the work.

2: people keep worrying about lawsuits and trying to get people from doing a lawsuit, wake up and smell the roses, the lawsuits are a non-issue, the AG's are coming in, they are not going to sue Palladium they are going to fine Palladium and if they have to sell off every scrap of paper Palladium has to get those fines they will, and these fines have priority over any outstanding debt, even pre-orders and such, and those who filed with their various states AG's will be paid out of those fines collected.

3: Quit whining at the backers filing with the BBB and the AG, its out of their hands now, the only one who can fix this now is PB and PB only, so go whine to PB and tell them to fix this or they are screwed.

4: quit blaming the backers who filed with the BBB and the AG's 2 years is long enough to get reamed by PB if you want to keep getting reamed by PB then good for you and suck it up.

5: on a bright (or dark depending on your point of view) note, all it will take is one more update by PB about conventional crap or sizing or what have you and not about actual wave 2 information that will turn the tide and the angry mobs will start coming out in force, and the mass filings with the BBB and the AG will began.

Rick, how about we don't attack Mike while he's being reasonable and meeting people half way?

I think your stance on this is well known at this point, but to have a conversation there needs to be something other than people lobbing accusations at one another.

 Forar wrote:
Rick, how about we don't attack Mike while he's being reasonable and meeting people half way?

I think your stance on this is well known at this point, but to have a conversation there needs to be something other than people lobbing accusations at one another.

oh i'm not attacking Mike, me and him have had this discussion before, and he knows hes enabling PB but hes not doing it for PB's benefit hes doing it for his own benefit to have the game, problem I have with that is the way hes doing it hes helping PB.

but even Mike has his breaking point.

So calling him out an an enabler yet again is necessary why?

I think it's well established that Mike's page and efforts have probably carried at least some of the load that has allowed PB to even get to this point (messy as it is).

Calling him out on it again isn't necessary if it's a known thing.

Well, enabling or not the one question that we keep dancing around is this:

When would delivery of wave 2 become a priority to Kevin?

The answer is scary since his pride and joy RPG products take half a decade or more to complete.

- He has our money.
- It costs him money every step until he has something to sell.
- Sales have been "disappointing" at every turn.
- Backers have complained about everything they have done.
- Forums have picked up again about the mystery that is wave 2 there is "buzz".
- He is able to advertise new product to a known interested customer base.
- The complaining lacks "teeth" so a little customer trolling is therapeutic.
- KS lacks teeth: they got their money too.

It really comes down to legal motivation or a cattle prod to bring about any movement from that direction.

One other thing is that many cases are resolved by a "settlement" so if a backer is proceeding with a legal action, they could dictate terms of how wave 2 proceeds.
If PB can survive the lawyer case prep time costs then there is a chance of the project continuing with newfound motivation.

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, enabling or not the one question that we keep dancing around is this:

When would delivery of wave 2 become a priority to Kevin?

The answer is scary since his pride and joy RPG products take half a decade or more to complete.

- He has our money.
- It costs him money every step until he has something to sell.
- Sales have been "disappointing" at every turn.
- Backers have complained about everything they have done.
- Forums have picked up again about the mystery that is wave 2 there is "buzz".
- He is able to advertise new product to a known interested customer base.
- The complaining lacks "teeth" so a little customer trolling is therapeutic.
- KS lacks teeth: they got their money too.

It really comes down to legal motivation or a cattle prod to bring about any movement from that direction.

One other thing is that many cases are resolved by a "settlement" so if a backer is proceeding with a legal action, they could dictate terms of how wave 2 proceeds.
If PB can survive the lawyer case prep time costs then there is a chance of the project continuing with newfound motivation.

Talizar you keep dwelling on lawsuits and such, no one (well to my knowledge) has filed a lawsuit on PB as of yet, the big picture item is the AG's if they go after PB there will be nothing left of PB.

Okay, looking into how dire this is in the good 'ol USA.

First the person in question is this dude: http://www.naag.org/naag/attorneys-general/whos-my-ag/michigan/bill-schuette.php
Sorry, I find the group he is attached to "NAAG" funny as all heck... we shall naag PB to death!

So you start with a complaint here:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html

On-line form is this (Just like the BBB! and they talk to the company for you at first).
https://secure.ag.state.mi.us/complaints/consumer.aspx

So now, laws protecting consumers:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17337_18270---,00.html

Consumer protection act:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(fwk2t4efe41tfdngba3lbr1z))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-act-331-of-1976

I will dig deeper as time permits.
Still not seeing how they will "destroy" PB... they are answerable to not destroying too many businesses, Michigan needs all they have.

Asterios wrote:

Talizar you keep dwelling on lawsuits and such, no one (well to my knowledge) has filed a lawsuit on PB as of yet, the big picture item is the AG's if they go after PB there will be nothing left of PB.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Rick? Real Rick, if you're reading this, threaten to sue Palladium once on the KS comments if you're ok, twice if not!

 Talizvar wrote:
I will dig deeper as time permits.
Still not seeing how they will "destroy" PB... they are answerable to not destroying too many businesses, Michigan needs all they have.

thats if Michigan was the only state, right now someone from the state of Washington has filed with their AG, and we know Washington is willing to go after KS, and I've filed with my States AG which has already sent a letter of inquiry (2 days after I filed the complaint), and if anyone in other states file with their AG's thats more to add to the party and each state has its own fines and such they can charge PB for.

 warboss wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Talizar you keep dwelling on lawsuits and such, no one (well to my knowledge) has filed a lawsuit on PB as of yet, the big picture item is the AG's if they go after PB there will be nothing left of PB.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Rick? Real Rick, if you're reading this, threaten to sue Palladium once on the KS comments if you're ok, twice if not!

the lawsuit is the last thing if the state does nothing by the end of this year, but it may be a moot point since the state is starting on something.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Once this hits a courtroom situation there's no way any of the backers are going to get anything (other than perhaps a warm feeling that they've killed Palladium)

So whatever you decide to do, do not do so in the expectation of getting any cash back, it's just not going to happen, leaving things alone may well be distasteful but is the best chance of backers ending up with something (eventually)

Bad business should not exist as such - that's why bankruptcy looms in the background, as counterpoint to success and profit.

If Palladium will not deliver Wave 2, I have no problem seeing them burn.

As interested parties, backers have an interest in the case, and they should demand that Palladium be liquidated in order to remunerate a proportional amount to each backer. If that ends up being pennies on the dollar, that's objectively better than nothing.

Just from a different perspective, because perspective can be important, here's the timeline, as it pertains to length of time, in long form. Because just listing dates themselves can miss the scope we're talking about here. I've stripped out everything that's not consequential, and have just kept the pertinent dates, to show the passage of time on the campaign.

Apr 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Launches
May 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Concludes
Jun 2013
Jul 2013
Aug 2013
Sep 2013 - Pledge Manager Closes (everything still on schedule!)
Oct 2013
Nov 2013
Dec 2013 - Rewards Due In Full (list should end here)
Jan 2014
Feb 2014
Mar 2014
Apr 2014 - Ten Questions (still waiting on some answers).
May 2014
Jun 2014
Jul 2014 - Wave 1 Production Begins
Aug 2014
Sep 2014
Oct 2014 - Wave 1 Shipping Begins
Nov 2014
Dec 2014
Jan 2015
Feb 2015 - Five Wave 2 "works in progress".
Mar 2015
Apr 2015
May 2015
Jun 2015
Jul 2015
Aug 2015 - And counting...

That's why people are upset. Because communication during those empty white spaces have been all but non-existent. And no amount of cajoling, even from people who appear to have Palladium's ear, seems to matter worth a damn. They have the money (carrot), so now, for some people, they deserve the stick.

I'd have done it as a graphical timeline, but my graphic design skills are about on par with PB's scheduling ability. If anyone wants to turn that into a graphical representation, feel free.

Quit with the facts. You'll ruin it!

Stealing from Morgan (it's what I do), quotes stripped for ease of use.

For further perspective;

Apr 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Launches
May 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Concludes
Jun 2013
Jul 2013
Aug 2013 - Gencon Round 1 ("Max/Miriya'gate")
Sep 2013 - Pledge Manager Closes (everything still on schedule!)
Oct 2013
Nov 2013
Dec 2013 - Rewards Due In Full (list should end here)
Jan 2014
Feb 2014
Mar 2014
Apr 2014 - Ten Questions (still waiting on some answers).
May 2014
Jun 2014
Jul 2014 - Wave 1 Production Begins
Aug 2014 - Gencon Round 2 ("Delivery'gate")
Sep 2014
Oct 2014 - Wave 1 Shipping Begins
Nov 2014 - RRT delivered to North American retailers
Dec 2014 - 1 Year Late.
Jan 2015
Feb 2015 - Five Wave 2 "works in progress".
Mar 2015
Apr 2015
May 2015
Jun 2015 - Wayne says he'll work on compiling wave two info
Jul 2015 - RRT officially at Gencon, new products limited to "exclusive sculpts".
Aug 2015 - We are here, half a year since Wave 2 info, nothing new to show off.
Sept 2015
Oct 2015
Nov 2015
Dec 2015 - Current Delivery Target, 2 Years Late
Jan 2016
Feb 2016 - Chinese New Year Round 3
Mar 2016
Apr 2016
May 2016
Jun 2016
Jul 2016
Aug 2016 - Gencon Round 4
Sep 2016
Oct 2016
Nov 2016
Dec 2016 - 3 Years Late.

I mean, there's piles more we can add to this, including the revelation from John that wave two files were delivered sometime in 2014, and how many newsletters and updates in each of those.

Hell, it might not be a bad idea to start something compiling all these with easily searchable keywords. I know I tire of re-google'ing repeatedly the quotes and dates that things were said whenever someone decides to challenge a statement (and while I've made mistakes on particulars, I like to think I've been right more often than I've been wrong here).

Ponder this much; this project started around, what, Robotech's 27th anniversary? And it's now the 30th? How much longer before backers are allowed to be frustrated and pushing with more than polite requests for info that go unanswered? The 35th anniversary? 40th? Shall we meekly sit back while PB takes 5 years to deliver? 10? 20? Does a yearly "nothing new to deliver, but at least we're still not taking as long as Duke Nukem Forever" suffice to cover their contractual obligations?

Asterios wrote:
well how do I start this off, hmm, oh ok, yeah:

1: Mike your an enabler, you enable PB to continue doing what they are doing and allowing them to do it, you enable them by helping them, its one thing if you were doing what your doing and PB was also doing something, but they are doing nothing and letting you do all the work.

2: people keep worrying about lawsuits and trying to get people from doing a lawsuit, wake up and smell the roses, the lawsuits are a non-issue, the AG's are coming in, they are not going to sue Palladium they are going to fine Palladium and if they have to sell off every scrap of paper Palladium has to get those fines they will, and these fines have priority over any outstanding debt, even pre-orders and such, and those who filed with their various states AG's will be paid out of those fines collected.

3: Quit whining at the backers filing with the BBB and the AG, its out of their hands now, the only one who can fix this now is PB and PB only, so go whine to PB and tell them to fix this or they are screwed.

4: quit blaming the backers who filed with the BBB and the AG's 2 years is long enough to get reamed by PB if you want to keep getting reamed by PB then good for you and suck it up.

5: on a bright (or dark depending on your point of view) note, all it will take is one more update by PB about conventional crap or sizing or what have you and not about actual wave 2 information that will turn the tide and the angry mobs will start coming out in force, and the mass filings with the BBB and the AG will began.

Yes, we know because you Rick are so reasonable and never piss anyone one off and work so well with others.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, enabling or not the one question that we keep dancing around is this:

When would delivery of wave 2 become a priority to Kevin?

The answer is scary since his pride and joy RPG products take half a decade or more to complete.

- He has our money.
- It costs him money every step until he has something to sell.
- Sales have been "disappointing" at every turn.
- Backers have complained about everything they have done.
- Forums have picked up again about the mystery that is wave 2 there is "buzz".
- He is able to advertise new product to a known interested customer base.
- The complaining lacks "teeth" so a little customer trolling is therapeutic.
- KS lacks teeth: they got their money too.

It really comes down to legal motivation or a cattle prod to bring about any movement from that direction.

One other thing is that many cases are resolved by a "settlement" so if a backer is proceeding with a legal action, they could dictate terms of how wave 2 proceeds.
If PB can survive the lawyer case prep time costs then there is a chance of the project continuing with newfound motivation.

Pretty much...there is a chance to push, I agree with that, but with the past history, I think it more likely to kill the project. PB has never been known to work timely and efficiently. I've heard that it has been worse in the last 10 years or so.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Asterios wrote:
well how do I start this off, hmm, oh ok, yeah:

1: Mike your an enabler, you enable PB to continue doing what they are doing and allowing them to do it, you enable them by helping them, its one thing if you were doing what your doing and PB was also doing something, but they are doing nothing and letting you do all the work.

2: people keep worrying about lawsuits and trying to get people from doing a lawsuit, wake up and smell the roses, the lawsuits are a non-issue, the AG's are coming in, they are not going to sue Palladium they are going to fine Palladium and if they have to sell off every scrap of paper Palladium has to get those fines they will, and these fines have priority over any outstanding debt, even pre-orders and such, and those who filed with their various states AG's will be paid out of those fines collected.

3: Quit whining at the backers filing with the BBB and the AG, its out of their hands now, the only one who can fix this now is PB and PB only, so go whine to PB and tell them to fix this or they are screwed.

4: quit blaming the backers who filed with the BBB and the AG's 2 years is long enough to get reamed by PB if you want to keep getting reamed by PB then good for you and suck it up.

5: on a bright (or dark depending on your point of view) note, all it will take is one more update by PB about conventional crap or sizing or what have you and not about actual wave 2 information that will turn the tide and the angry mobs will start coming out in force, and the mass filings with the BBB and the AG will began.

Yes, we know because you Rick are so reasonable and never piss anyone one off and work so well with others.....

mike you know my philosophy:

[MOD EDIT - YOU ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENT OF THE TEXT IN PICTURES YOU POST - ALPHARIUS]

furthermore Wayne Just mentioned in the robotech uncensored group he is working on an update

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Once this hits a courtroom situation there's no way any of the backers are going to get anything (other than perhaps a warm feeling that they've killed Palladium)

So whatever you decide to do, do not do so in the expectation of getting any cash back, it's just not going to happen, leaving things alone may well be distasteful but is the best chance of backers ending up with something (eventually)

Bad business should not exist as such - that's why bankruptcy looms in the background, as counterpoint to success and profit.

If Palladium will not deliver Wave 2, I have no problem seeing them burn.

As interested parties, backers have an interest in the case, and they should demand that Palladium be liquidated in order to remunerate a proportional amount to each backer. If that ends up being pennies on the dollar, that's objectively better than nothing.

I agree, if there is no intention on completing wave two and I was aware of it I would separate ties on the spot.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forar wrote:
Stealing from Morgan (it's what I do), quotes stripped for ease of use.

For further perspective;

Apr 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Launches
May 2013 - Kickstarter Campaign Concludes
Jun 2013
Jul 2013
Aug 2013 - Gencon Round 1 ("Max/Miriya'gate")
Sep 2013 - Pledge Manager Closes (everything still on schedule!)
Oct 2013
Nov 2013
Dec 2013 - Rewards Due In Full (list should end here)
Jan 2014
Feb 2014
Mar 2014
Apr 2014 - Ten Questions (still waiting on some answers).
May 2014
Jun 2014
Jul 2014 - Wave 1 Production Begins
Aug 2014 - Gencon Round 2 ("Delivery'gate")
Sep 2014
Oct 2014 - Wave 1 Shipping Begins
Nov 2014 - RRT delivered to North American retailers
Dec 2014 - 1 Year Late.
Jan 2015
Feb 2015 - Five Wave 2 "works in progress".
Mar 2015
Apr 2015
May 2015
Jun 2015 - Wayne says he'll work on compiling wave two info
Jul 2015 - RRT officially at Gencon, new products limited to "exclusive sculpts".
Aug 2015 - We are here, half a year since Wave 2 info, nothing new to show off.
Sept 2015
Oct 2015
Nov 2015
Dec 2015 - Current Delivery Target, 2 Years Late
Jan 2016
Feb 2016 - Chinese New Year Round 3
Mar 2016
Apr 2016
May 2016
Jun 2016
Jul 2016
Aug 2016 - Gencon Round 4
Sep 2016
Oct 2016
Nov 2016
Dec 2016 - 3 Years Late.

I mean, there's piles more we can add to this, including the revelation from John that wave two files were delivered sometime in 2014, and how many newsletters and updates in each of those.

Hell, it might not be a bad idea to start something compiling all these with easily searchable keywords. I know I tire of re-google'ing repeatedly the quotes and dates that things were said whenever someone decides to challenge a statement (and while I've made mistakes on particulars, I like to think I've been right more often than I've been wrong here).

Ponder this much; this project started around, what, Robotech's 27th anniversary? And it's now the 30th? How much longer before backers are allowed to be frustrated and pushing with more than polite requests for info that go unanswered? The 35th anniversary? 40th? Shall we meekly sit back while PB takes 5 years to deliver? 10? 20? Does a yearly "nothing new to deliver, but at least we're still not taking as long as Duke Nukem Forever" suffice to cover their contractual obligations?

Should we start a pool on this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as a small digress...interesting take on the new Mecha designs for anyone interested.

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=148884

and pics of them can be found here

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c5h1KqKkVwLoN_0mQlEyZYFixd-J5Ntj7uSjnnMFtE0/edit?pli=1

 Mike1975 wrote:
Pretty much...there is a chance to push, I agree with that, but with the past history, I think it more likely to kill the project. PB has never been known to work timely and efficiently. I've heard that it has been worse in the last 10 years or so.

I can honestly say that this project does not mean as much to me as it may for others, even though it was a favorite childhood show.
I refuse to be held hostage.

I also refuse to listen to another bloody "soon" which is a blatant lie, I do not care how vague the word is.
Why even bother saying it that often?
It is either a poor taste means of drawing out anticipation or trolling.

I cannot see PB ever admitting to killing the project ever, decided or not.
This is how they keep the attention of the fanboys for the next lauded and anticipated RPG book for a decade or so.

It is the refusal to share simple status details that has cemented in my mind they are shooting for the "long haul" or not at all.
Now is a wonderful time for gaming, Gencon has shown general numbers are up, I refuse to support an unworthy business just because they happen to have an IP I like.

I could have sworn a week ago I was willing to let things ride till June next year... what happened?

Like, flat out, if PB doesn't want to see this killed, they should be showing off every last thing they can to prove that the project is seeing progress. Work in progress shots, renders, prototypes, cocktail napkin doodles, whatever.

10 weeks of silence from Wayne, 6 months of lacking tangible progress from the project, and every day going forward that they don't put up a good solid chunk of info damns them all the more.

Mike said that Wayne is allegedly working on an update.

I'll believe that it qualifies as any of this when it isn't just another "omg you gusy working so hard much Robotech such 100 hour weeks wow" that's all but its own meme at this point.

 Forar wrote:
Mike said that Wayne is allegedly working on an update.

There's working on an update and working on an update that we, as backers, actually want to see that contains pertinent info on the remaining massively delayed kickstarter rewards. I don't give a rat's ass if Wayne is working ZOMG so hard! on an update about new Robotech fleece pullovers or putting the finishing touches on the stats on the newest conventional vehicle, the weaponized infantry segway (only $10 each, sorry valued Robotech backers only!).

Asterios wrote:

2: people keep worrying about lawsuits and trying to get people from doing a lawsuit, wake up and smell the roses, the lawsuits are a non-issue, the AG's are coming in, they are not going to sue Palladium they are going to fine Palladium and if they have to sell off every scrap of paper Palladium has to get those fines they will, and these fines have priority over any outstanding debt, even pre-orders and such, and those who filed with their various states AG's will be paid out of those fines collected.

3: Quit whining at the backers filing with the BBB and the AG, its out of their hands now, the only one who can fix this now is PB and PB only, so go whine to PB and tell them to fix this or they are screwed.

4: quit blaming the backers who filed with the BBB and the AG's 2 years is long enough to get reamed by PB if you want to keep getting reamed by PB then good for you and suck it up.

5: on a bright (or dark depending on your point of view) note, all it will take is one more update by PB about conventional crap or sizing or what have you and not about actual wave 2 information that will turn the tide and the angry mobs will start coming out in force, and the mass filings with the BBB and the AG will began.

No real dog in this fight, since I have most of what I paid for, but I find it amusing how you keep trying to deflect any responsibility for the various Attorney Generals being involved. They didn't come to you, you went to them. Take some responsibility for your actions. Or, as you so eloquently put it: "Suck it up buttercup". You made the move, now own the consequences.

Either way, slim hope for wave 2.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:
No real dog in this fight, since I have most of what I paid for, but I find it amusing how you keep trying to deflect any responsibility for the various Attorney Generals being involved. They didn't come to you, you went to them. Take some responsibility for your actions. Or, as you so eloquently put it: "Suck it up buttercup". You made the move, now own the consequences.

I believe the responsibility being pointed to is for PB to have done nothing wrong.
With their behavior, what are the odds?
They in particular will "own the consequences".

Either way, slim hope for wave 2.
~Eric

I must ask: what hopes were there really?
Not within 5 years without a sharp kick to the rear.
PB needs to find their motivation or we will not see Jack-all as demonstrated for 5-6 months.
Maybe PB will only serve the purpose as a cautionary tale for thinking KS money is free money.
Fantastic to hear Kevin has unleashed the hound... minio.... sacrif... umm..Wayne to do some damage cont.... ah, spin.... "an update".
On the KS site??
We may get a lashing tale of haters gonna hate and a possible thanks for our patience.
Wow, I am a bit of a flame monster lately... not on you guys however.

 Taarnak wrote:

No real dog in this fight, since I have most of what I paid for, but I find it amusing how you keep trying to deflect any responsibility for the various Attorney Generals being involved. They didn't come to you, you went to them. Take some responsibility for your actions. Or, as you so eloquently put it: "Suck it up buttercup". You made the move, now own the consequences.

Either way, slim hope for wave 2.

~Eric

oh yeah me and several others have filed with the AG's of our respective states, my point is we cannot call them off now, they are on the trail and it is up to PB to put up or shut up.


ok first all just heard someone got an e-mail from drivethru RPG that their system was hacked and peoples credit card information was accessed furthermore it seems the main mod sees no reason to warn the Palladium forums, here is the discussion:

 Talizvar wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Either way, slim hope for wave 2.
~Eric

I must ask: what hopes were there really?
Not within 5 years without a sharp kick to the rear.
PB needs to find their motivation or we will not see Jack-all as demonstrated for 5-6 months.

I agree with you that this is all on PB. I meant slim hope with or without the AGs involvement.

~Eric