Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/11/21 08:27:36
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Sounds more and more like they're desperately trying to find additional financial backing so that they can finish what we've already paid for, and they're either striking out big time, or Kevin is baulking hard at all the non-negotiable attached strings.
"We're exploring! Explorers!" - No. You're not. They're fething minis, you're not discovering a new element. Either you have new sprue breakdowns to show, or you don't. Either there's prototypes being printed off and assembled for test fits, or there aren't. Either dozens of molds are being produced, or they're not. Time to gak or get off the pot.
But maybe they have. Maybe that's the delay. They can't get started on the models because they want to make them in their newly discovered element - Palladimium* - but until it is officially ratified, they can't or else they risk loosing the discovery rights.
*Palladimium [PALlaDIMium] is a new element formed by crushing the hopes and dreams of 5K+ backers and fermenting for 2 years.
"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes…then all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." Commander sinclair, Babylon 5.
Bobtheinquisitor wrote:what is going on with APAC shipping? If Macross Island were real, they'd be the last place to get any Robotechnology.
2015/11/21 15:41:53
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I think I read about Palladimium last week in a science (fiction) journal. Is that the one that is unstable and needs constant UV light shone up through the back of the containment vessel? I think the article said that the new element proves the Siembieda Progress Uncertainty Principle in that the more progress is shown to backers the less actual progress is made. That's why Palladium, just because they love us valued backers, will show us nothing tangible to enure maximum velocity towards reward completion. I mean... they made two phone calls this week! Two!
2015/11/21 16:30:32
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Joyboozer wrote: This sounds more and more like redoing the core game is their highest priority.
People keep saying this, but I don't agree. I think the "relaunch" is to be tied to whatever book/material they're working on (or think they can produce, unlikely as it is) for the "Advanced Rules" or "1.5 Edition" or whatever it might be.
The answer to struggling with two dozen'ish figures is not to add another dozen that are already completed back on the drawing board.
No matter how poorly we might think of their judgement, we've also always relied on their cheapness to shine through. Another 50 or 100k or more to re-cut molds for wave one would be an immense waste of time and materials. They know how popular the Super VT's and MAC-II and FPA and whatnot are; those are the figures that people will buy more of while also progressing them on the KS completion path.
Starting over with VT's and Pods would be so nonsensical I'd move from thinking they were bad at business to thinking they should have a psych evaluation, especially as a group, dictator that Kevin might be.
PB have a history of stating vague grandiose things and then delivering a cup of lukewarm canned soup (cheap, easier than they made it out to be, not likely to kill anyone but only the die hard fanboys will proclaim it the finest dinner they've ever had).
I think this is just their way of leading up to that kind of crap. A full restart this early on would set them so far back as to be laughable.
2015/11/21 18:25:43
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I too doubt they're going to redo the starter models. It's just endlessly frustrating to see nothing after a full year since the majority of backers got wave 1. The fact that they're still "looking" and "exploring" 16 months later after finishing development on wave 1 instead of "making" tangible rewards for wave 2 is ridiculous. The talk of a reboot is just the latest iteration of delay tactics since the previous scale change and not exclusive kickstarter exclusive models and vaporware conventional vehicle rules failed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/21 18:27:51
2015/11/21 20:19:32
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Well if you guys want to do something and feel like PB is jerking you around, it does not matter if your in the US or not you can file with the FTC:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1 or with the Michigan's AG office:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17331---,00.html or preferably both.
if enough backers file with these agencies they will act on them, but only if we the backers unite and say enough is enough and hold PB accountable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/21 20:20:11
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/21 20:55:31
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I'm waiting first to see what your Legal TsunamiTM reveals in discovery before I consider taking any steps of my own. I'm still firmly in the sarcastic apathy camp personally and can wait until you unleath your pent up fury in 6 weeks.
2015/11/22 01:39:30
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I figure steel molds are off the table and they are looking at some recast type technology: low up-front tool cost and slow as molasses production. Change parting lines to suit, 3d print a couple poses and Bob's your uncle. Get a few fan volunteers to work the salt mines and they are harmony golden. Stretch out for a few months of pounding out figures at their own pace and all legal commitments met.
It is what I would do if I was operating to my shoestring budget, not sure what vacations or cars they spent the big bucks on... hehe.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2015/11/22 02:42:06
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Warboss, I wouldn't put too much on my legal efforts since they will only benefit me, no one else, and anyone else trying to get a refund that way will also have to take the court then there is the possibility they will try to attach a gag order to any settlement too.
any suit I bring up against them will not destroy them, just cost them more then if they refunded me. as to motions of discovery on their records not sure I'll even be able to share those even.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/22 03:44:53
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: Warboss, I wouldn't put too much on my legal efforts since they will only benefit me, no one else, and anyone else trying to get a refund that way will also have to take the court then there is the possibility they will try to attach a gag order to any settlement too.
A gag order prevents you from disclosing information AFTER you agree to it. Unless they have a Delorean, they can't go back in time and take the pee out of the pool after the fact. If you find anything interesting that backers should have known about in the first place years ago during your discovery, I trust your civic minded nature will lead you to share it with your fellow backers immediately. If they offer you a settlement afterward you disclose that embarassing information, that's a different story and you need to look out for yourself first and foremost. But since palladium believes they have such an airtight rock solid stone fortress of a defense against those dastardly backers who are ungrateful at having to wait almost 3 years at the current estimate, I'm 98% sure of them not offering to settle right away. I've been saying for months that I'm anxious to see what your legal onslaught reveals behind the curtain at palladium. If anyone decides to act on your newly discovered information, you'll have long settled before they get their ball rolling assuming palladium is ever amenable to that. I mean it took you over a year of prep and threats to be at the point where you finally are right now only weeks away from filing your case.
Saturdays alternate between smelling fishy and smelling like male cow manure... it's par for the course when the Palladium weekly "update" is plopped on everyone's virtual front porch the night before.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/22 05:43:29
2015/11/22 06:18:29
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: Warboss, I wouldn't put too much on my legal efforts since they will only benefit me, no one else, and anyone else trying to get a refund that way will also have to take the court then there is the possibility they will try to attach a gag order to any settlement too.
A gag order prevents you from disclosing information AFTER you agree to it. Unless they have a Delorean, they can't go back in time and take the pee out of the pool after the fact. If you find anything interesting that backers should have known about in the first place years ago during your discovery, I trust your civic minded nature will lead you to share it with your fellow backers immediately. If they offer you a settlement afterward you disclose that embarassing information, that's a different story and you need to look out for yourself first and foremost. But since palladium believes they have such an airtight rock solid stone fortress of a defense against those dastardly backers who are ungrateful at having to wait almost 3 years at the current estimate, I'm 98% sure of them not offering to settle right away. I've been saying for months that I'm anxious to see what your legal onslaught reveals behind the curtain at palladium. If anyone decides to act on your newly discovered information, you'll have long settled before they get their ball rolling assuming palladium is ever amenable to that. I mean it took you over a year of prep and threats to be at the point where you finally are right now only weeks away from filing your case.
if their lawyer is good enough he can get a gag order on any discovery claiming that ow their business is ran and reveals too much info that could harm them as a company. all i know is my attorney didn't seem positive about me telling all about my case or anything.
like a recent incident with PB they were in court recently and I have no clue about what? only that their name and Kevin's appeared on a docket but no info(my lawyer found this out).
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/22 06:51:35
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
like a recent incident with PB they were in court recently and I have no clue about what? only that their name and Kevin's appeared on a docket but no info(my lawyer found this out).
Let us know if you find anything. Maybe it is against an employee they let go (crisis of treachery II) or a former partner/collaborator that they think screwed up.
2015/11/22 06:54:23
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Frankly at this point if Rick dropped off the face of the Earth I'd assume either died or got paid out (or got paid out and the shock of it killed him).
Sometimes it's not about what you say, but what isn't being said.
I think after a month or two of missing "I'm going to suuuuuue PB!" commentary someone would notice that something was up.
Also, this is an odd change of tone. Not all that long ago it was about money back and legal fees and punitive damages and how you wanted to put PB in the fething ground!
And now suddenly it's "oh it won't be that big a deal"?
... fishy indeed.
2015/11/22 09:00:43
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Whelp, there's another release of the Weekly Megaversal Propaganda.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
Things are moving on Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two (we actually had two conference calls yesterday to discuss it), but for a variety of business reasons we can not yet discuss or reveal exactly what we are looking into and considering. For one, if some of the things we are considering don’t pan out, we don’t want you to be disappointed. And it seems like every little while, things we were considering doing, get changed for one reason or another.
I can tell you, we want to make sure the rest of the Kickstarter items and future Robotech® RPG Tactics™ items are something special and the best product it can be, especially after the long delays in getting Wave Two into your hands. Please know that we are exploring many different possibilities, and until we nail down the final details, we just cannot talk about what were looking into. But we are exploring many things we know you will enjoy. This includes a number of ideas for the relaunch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ next year when Wave Two comes out. Stay frosty. You are far from forgotten.
Spoiler:
To break it down;
"Things are moving" - [Citation Needed]
"we are totally progressing but can't say or show any evidence to that end, please just give us the benefit of the doubt that we so very much don't deserve"
"omg plans change" - Cool story, bro. Forget your lofty plans. Nobody cares about the bullgak that Wayne and Alex are totally slobbering over (the harshest criticism yet!). Figures. You owe them. Make that gak happen.
"We totes want to deliver, but it has to be the bestest best bettererer than best evar!" - For feths sake, no. Pointing out that people have been waiting does not, in fact, make it heartening to hear that there's more delays. 7 months lined up and let's be real, Black Friday/end of year 2016 are vastly more likely. So that blunting of bad news is... just hiding more bad news.
"We're exploring! Explorers!" - No. You're not. They're fething minis, you're not discovering a new element. Either you have new sprue breakdowns to show, or you don't. Either there's prototypes being printed off and assembled for test fits, or there aren't. Either dozens of molds are being produced, or they're not. Time to gak or get off the pot.
Oh well, in a matter of weeks we've gone from "Q2 2016" to "Q2 2016 would be ideal!" to "when the game relaunches next year (2016)"!
Really giving up ground on that one. In 2 weeks they've tacked on two more quarters. I, for one, am feeling reassured as to their ongoing commitment to making progress and keeping us informed!
What.The.Frak.
I've read/heard some absolute double-talk in my day, but I mean really - did KS & PB go and hire/consult some out of work if not barred from Washington political type to advise them on improving their spin and glad-handing?!
And yeah, sad thing is though how there are ''so totally'' folks out in the wilds of the worldwide web who'll lap it up as yet another example of absolute gospel showing forthright intentions on the part of Palladium.
Color yourself exalted - too funny, because you just know it's probably close to the truth.
_
_
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/22 11:00:03
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2015/11/22 15:32:50
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: Frankly at this point if Rick dropped off the face of the Earth I'd assume either died or got paid out (or got paid out and the shock of it killed him).
Sometimes it's not about what you say, but what isn't being said.
I think after a month or two of missing "I'm going to suuuuuue PB!" commentary someone would notice that something was up.
Also, this is an odd change of tone. Not all that long ago it was about money back and legal fees and punitive damages and how you wanted to put PB in the fething ground!
And now suddenly it's "oh it won't be that big a deal"?
... fishy indeed.
Oh I still want to put PB into the ground and want to destroy them, but with the apathy being shown by backers it will most likely not happen, the other kickstarters that got taken down had that happen because those backers would not go quietly into that good night, they said feth it and filed with those agencies.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/22 17:07:13
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
well we'll see but don't hold your breath, me thinks PB will settle before it gets there, if they don't refund before I get a chance to file, since if the motion of discovery shows what I think it will show, it could put PB in the realm of fraud.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/22 21:05:15
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
This is the kind of discussion I pledged for in the Defiance Games kickstarter. I'm glad RRPGT is actually delivering*. Can Kevin top Tony Reidy's "spent it all on strippers" excess? I can't wait to find out.
*Wave 2 would be even better, of course, but that hope is a liar.
By the way we the backers would like clarification concerning stuff Kevin has stated in his sites weekly update and on official government responses where he states that PB is still working on the designs of the minis and such.
the issue is the contract thru Kickstarter we signed stated that Ninja Division would be designing the miniatures and yet Ninja Divisions contract with PB ended awhile back and they will not be continuing their contract with PB.
so either PB is lying to us backers about them still working on the designs, or they have broke their contract with us backers by altering the terms agreed upon when we signed up for this project.
either way PB owes us the backers a refund.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/11/23 01:59:17
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Days since the last update: 47
Days since Wayne said he'd give us a full breakdown on the status of all the pieces: **136**
Days since the last substantial Wave 2 info: 267
Days since the campaign ended: 917.
Days until the end of Q2 2016: 221 (current "ideal")
Days until Gencon 2016: 254
Days until the end of 2016: 405
2015/11/23 03:42:15
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Hard to tell, it's Schrodinger's litigation; both imminent and yet vaguely waiting on things because reasons.
Though as I believe I've pointed out, surely it won't take more than a few months to get that rolling, so we can probably roll that in with the Q2 'target', in that surely Rick won't go Full Palladium on us.
Never go Full Palladium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/23 03:58:12
2015/11/23 15:09:31
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Dunno, it looks like the viable means of payback with PB is leaving a bag of burning poop on their doorstep (I would make sure sand bags are around it so it is not construed as attempted arson if it had to happen).
I am running out of "reasonable" legal options other than to use the occasional harsh words in public forums to cause Kevin to stir and write a wall of text.
Since he is so sensitive and cares "soooo much!" I am sure it causes him great pain and extends his 25 hour work days.
I suppose I should wander over to the KS page and see what whole lot of nothing awaits.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
