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Y'know, looking back at PB's updates on the KS and seeing that they had a multi-part model of the Glaug-Eldaire at the end of 2013 really highlights that they have done nothing whatsover since Wave 1 left the factory (the Glaug-Eldaire was one of the models they showed the sprue breakdown this last Feb).

To me, its a pretty clear indication they no longer have the funds to do anything with this KS - in the fact there's been no other physical "test" models past the 3D render point - and they are just dragging us along in the self-deluded idea they'll somehow, somewhere along the way get enough money to finish this hose-job.

 Stormonu wrote:
Y'know, looking back at PB's updates on the KS and seeing that they had a multi-part model of the Glaug-Eldaire at the end of 2013 really highlights that they have done nothing whatsover since Wave 1 left the factory (the Glaug-Eldaire was one of the models they showed the sprue breakdown this last Feb).

To me, its a pretty clear indication they no longer have the funds to do anything with this KS - in the fact there's been no other physical "test" models past the 3D render point - and they are just dragging us along in the self-deluded idea they'll somehow, somewhere along the way get enough money to finish this hose-job.

I could be wrong, but didn't they sell of Rifts recently? To a legitimate company that is going to rework it with real rules?

 Theophony wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Y'know, looking back at PB's updates on the KS and seeing that they had a multi-part model of the Glaug-Eldaire at the end of 2013 really highlights that they have done nothing whatsover since Wave 1 left the factory (the Glaug-Eldaire was one of the models they showed the sprue breakdown this last Feb).

To me, its a pretty clear indication they no longer have the funds to do anything with this KS - in the fact there's been no other physical "test" models past the 3D render point - and they are just dragging us along in the self-deluded idea they'll somehow, somewhere along the way get enough money to finish this hose-job.

I could be wrong, but didn't they sell of Rifts recently? To a legitimate company that is going to rework it with real rules?

I think they licensed some properties to the Savage Worlds people, though I'm doubtful that'll amount to a whole lot of money up front, and be more a royalty thing. If it goes gangbusters, it might pull in some money, but I'm expecting they're expecting that it'll more be getting sales of existing product (ie, people loving the SW version, and buying PB sourcebooks to flesh out the campaign) than an income stream in and of itself.

As for the Glaug Eldare Stormonu mentioned, that was a pre-production prototype. Essentially a 3D printed model of what it should look like, and is fairly early in the design process. So, the sprue breakdown from ten months ago was actually "progress", just over an elongated timeline (probably using a "geological" timeframe).

Also, should be noted, they had a 3DPPP of the Female Power Armor, at the same time. But you can get them now, for just the low low price of $22 per ($66+ shipping per squad!) if you're a backer. I'm sure Kevin will announce a sale for the masses again soon, though. It's only been a month or since they last offered it publicly.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Y'know, looking back at PB's updates on the KS and seeing that they had a multi-part model of the Glaug-Eldaire at the end of 2013 really highlights that they have done nothing whatsover since Wave 1 left the factory (the Glaug-Eldaire was one of the models they showed the sprue breakdown this last Feb).

To me, its a pretty clear indication they no longer have the funds to do anything with this KS - in the fact there's been no other physical "test" models past the 3D render point - and they are just dragging us along in the self-deluded idea they'll somehow, somewhere along the way get enough money to finish this hose-job.

I could be wrong, but didn't they sell of Rifts recently? To a legitimate company that is going to rework it with real rules?

I think they licensed some properties to the Savage Worlds people, though I'm doubtful that'll amount to a whole lot of money up front, and be more a royalty thing. If it goes gangbusters, it might pull in some money, but I'm expecting they're expecting that it'll more be getting sales of existing product (ie, people loving the SW version, and buying PB sourcebooks to flesh out the campaign) than an income stream in and of itself.

As for the Glaug Eldare Stormonu mentioned, that was a pre-production prototype. Essentially a 3D printed model of what it should look like, and is fairly early in the design process. So, the sprue breakdown from ten months ago was actually "progress", just over an elongated timeline (probably using a "geological" timeframe).

Also, should be noted, they had a 3DPPP of the Female Power Armor, at the same time. But you can get them now, for just the low low price of $22 per ($66+ shipping per squad!) if you're a backer. I'm sure Kevin will announce a sale for the masses again soon, though. It's only been a month or since they last offered it publicly.

No, on the Glaug, they have a gray plastic (like the battlepods), multipart model. The second to last comment on update #122 confirms that it isn't a 3D printed model.

Palladium Books on Dec 31, 2013 wrote:
@Forar: True, but that was a 3D print directly from the sculpt. This is assembled from the parts broken down as they will be for manufacture. A lot of engineering work has taken place between the two, and some details modified and adapted for manufacturing purposes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm...the more that I look at that model on a larger monitor, I realize the parts were 3D printed - not from a sprue, but it wasn't "cast from whole" - it is made of the parts breakdown we saw in the Febuary 2015 update.

Okay, I'm looking at the Kickstarter comments, and they're deleting Jorel's comments left and right. I don't care what *exactly* he said, but I'm curious as to the gist. Anyone care to fill me in?

If so, thanks. If it's not cool here, no problem.

I believe they were inappropriate insults aimed at Mike and James - essentially calling them PB shills.

I haven't followed the kickstarter comments in months but unless Jorel has significantly changed his posting style then it was probably largely pointless insults and jabs at another poster named Jaymz.

Also, the year end weekly update on mental health issues from Palladium with a message from the grab bag sponsor arrived in my mailbox. Of course, nothing useful about remaining Robotech rewards 2 years overdue.

I don't think his language helped either, why Kickstarter doesn't have a swear filter is beyond me.

They don't really seem to mind vulgarity in general, which is a fairly realistic way of using the site with adults (keeping in mind that backers must have a credit card or other financial arrangements meaning I imagine the vast majority are either adults or at least vetted to a degree).

But that guy takes it too far, personal attacks without provocation (simply being on his gak list and commenting is enough to draw barbs), and will hold grudges for years. (Examples: "Ricks News", his ongoing inability to use the word Seem without spelling it Seam from back in the Spartangate days, his loathing of Jaymz and Mike, etc).

He is way too abrasive for it to be healthy, and seems to legit need to speak to a professional. I say that with absolutely zero judgement, and while I'm not a trained mental health worker or would expect one to make a diagnosis over the internet, he seems to hold onto things way too seriously for his own good, and even when he supports 'my side', it's often in a way that comes across as grating.

We came to something of a mutual understanding over many exchanges, and at this point I'm content to just leave things be. If Kickstarter thinks he went over the line, I guess he finally found where it was.

Hasn't he been barred in the past as well? Pretty sure he was given a time out by Kickstarter a while ago before, or was that another user?

Edit; that said, with Rick's general quietness of late and Jorel banned, along with many of the other Usual Suspects MIA, I imagine the KS comments may be considerably quieter for a while to start off the new year.

Please don't let Jorel be banned from the Robotech KS - he winds me up enough already on the AvP KS groups with his postings in 20+ consecutive posts that amount to "you think you've got it bad, come and look at Robotech".

Yeah, I had not seen user comments edited before on KS so it really does raise interest of what the heck he said.
Mind-you, the "I got a life unlike you losers" posing was getting rather old.
Rick, well, we shall see if it lasts.
I guess I will have to up my game in their absence.
Maybe cuss more and threaten them with Canadian government wrath, I will hire Stephen Harper to do his worst to them since he is back benching lately (tremble!).

richred_uk wrote:
Please don't let Jorel be banned from the Robotech KS - he winds me up enough already on the AvP KS groups with his postings in 20+ consecutive posts that amount to "you think you've got it bad, come and look at Robotech".

A) it's not like we have much control over what Kickstarter does or doesn't do. I sure as hell won't start a petition to lobby them to be lenient. Until Kickstarter gives us an Ignore Backer feature (I have asked them twice about this directly, they don't plan on it, but I remain hopeful) or I can be bothered to make/hunt down a browser extension that does the same, people getting a slap on the wrist once in a while is a feature, not a bug.

B) You can swing by the gakshow that is RRT anytime you like. It's not as though he's the only source of commentary. We have hundreds of pages of thread here on that very topic, not a hint of that particular user within.

C) Believe me, in time, it gets old. Also he's not the most reliable narrator, as it were. Sure, as I said, RRT is indeed a gakshow, but I'd take his perspective with a bit of a grain of salt. Remember, this is someone who holds grudges to the point that being shown the door on a Facebook group (of all things) is enough reason to harass someone for months and months. It's not healthy, and loses its humour value in time.

I am surprised that I didn't get blocked/deleted/kicked from the kickstarter. I went a bit.....cranky, and pretty much used nothing but profanity to describe PB not to long ago. Not that it changes my feelings about them, but I don't usually go name calling, and cussing at people. Not that I am going to apologize to them, at least not until they can show that they can straighten things out.

Jorel may be brash, but he wasn't alone in the escalation to current events. I have no idea what he said this time but in the past he hasn't acted crazy, just full of rants and brash comments, many of them deserved. This community has seen way crazier behavior from others over the years.

Jorel probably got fed up with every single celebrity he meets (and boy it's a shocking number) wanting to bang him.

Can someone elucidate upon the "various business reasons" that we can't be told about the current status of the project? This has really irked me since I read that part of the update. What possible legal blocks could be in place that would prevent factual information to be shared?

I'm no business insider, nor lawyer, so my information is limited. That said, however, I do not believe there is anything stopping these guys from saying "sprue #30, Glaug Eldaire, is needing to be re-worked due to a panel line placement causing mold collapse" or some such BS.

"On advice of counsel, we plead the fifth."

Does anybody believe it's anything but?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
10)"On advice of counsel, we plead the fifth."

Does anybody believe it's anything but?

9) "It's embarrassing."

8) "I fired everyone locally I could blame."

7) "It's hard and we're already telling people we're working 8 days a week with nothing to show them for it."

6) "If we stop looking out the window to do an update, we may miss the return of a squirrel/ducks/deer/etc."

5) "I'm too busy inserting public service announcements in the middle of my sales pitches to get sympathy for my own failures."

4) "We were in the middle of an update and the PalladiumTM computer got a message that says 'press any key' and we can't find the any key. We telegrammed tech support and are waiting by the door for a response."

3) "Because China... again."

2) "We're too busy gathering unsellable rifter issues and books we don't want to reprint ever for the final grab bag push we're praying for."

1) "Because we already have your money and there isn't anything you can do about that without it costing you even more."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, against my own better judgement, I decided to peek at the KS comments. It doesn't look like much has changed except for the last two days with Rick's self imposed silence and Jorel's likely temporary banning. I was a bit surprised to see Mike1975 wading knee deep in the muck though as that was new since the last time I looked. Also, this was posted there:

Stuart Johnson 2 days ago

Here you go, make of this what you will:

Palladium Books says:

Stuart,

If that is the “word on the street,” it is mistaken and absolutely untrue. We did NOT give Rick a refund, nor did we have him sign an NDA. We are not offering refunds. That has not changed. As we’ve said repeatedly, we are working on Wave Two, and have every intention of delivering all promised rewards when they are completed.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"On advice of counsel, we plead the fifth."

Does anybody believe it's anything but?

Nice!

Well I finally reached the ragged end of my rope and filed with the MI and OR AGs as well as the FTC. I'm updating my BBB complaint response and am going to consult a lawyer in about two weeks once she's reviewed the facts. I may have no leg to stand on but I'll at least get clearly defined actions I can take in regards to resolving this situation.

I think their 'we want to keep quiet' sentiment is simply based on being uncertain if things will pan out or not. From cursory reading over the years, they often seem to have some 'awesome things being talked about that we totally can't share, but will hint at', which some fans seem to love (ooooh, what could it be!?!?!), but here it just comes across as grating.

Like, if they were in negotiation with a factory to not only produce wave 2, but their expertise might allow them to move onto the next series without much delay or something (no, not likely, I'm making an entirely off the cuff random example); something they think would actually be good news, but are concerned that letting it slip and then having it fall apart might cause even more bile/disappointment/anger.

It's a tad more self awareness than they might usually show, imo, but it's also part of SOP. It's not quite the professional level of managing expectations I'd hope for, but hey, baby steps.

So now we just wait for the next update to see what they actually have to say.

Ha.

As if.

*jazzhands*

That would be fine and dandy if they hadn't taken the money three years in advance. When they're financing their pie in the sky dreams with their own money, they can play the double super secret card whenever they want for years on end.

 warboss wrote:
That would be fine and dandy if they hadn't taken the money three years in advance. When they're financing their pie in the sky dreams with their own money, they can play the double super secret card whenever they want for years on end.

This has always been my main gripe. Believe it or not I would be content to wait this long to get a good product. The issue is that I would require open communication from the producer. So, I am angry not at the time this has taken but at the lack of accountability and communication PB seems to think is an acceptable business practice. Transparency in the past would have cleared up 90% of the worries. At this point they're screwed.

Maybe they are taking a page from the GW playbook in the silence????? Of course, GW at least has(had) a vastly larger playerbase to be able to succeed at that particular choice, and even still, I think they are starting to fail using that system.

Weren't the BBB complaint details and responses previously readable? Or were folks uploading them elsewhere and linking to it?

http://www.bbb.org/detroit/business-reviews/books-new/palladium-books-inc-in-westland-mi-13022151/complaints#breakdown

edit: From a quick look through the thread, it looks like some PDFs of complaints and responses were attached directly to Dakka posts but I could have sworn you could access them as well on the BBB site last summer as well. Am I remembering that incorrectly? When I last looked in the summer, IIRC they had 3-4 complaints and a C+ rating. They're now down to an F with 13 complaints.

Here is a quick conversion I did of a Veritech with gunpla wings. If anyone is interested, I can try to make quick conversions of specific variants from wave 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It still needs some clean up on the wings.

Looks good! What kit originally did you get the bits from?

 warboss wrote:
Weren't the BBB complaint details and responses previously readable? Or were folks uploading them elsewhere and linking to it?

http://www.bbb.org/detroit/business-reviews/books-new/palladium-books-inc-in-westland-mi-13022151/complaints#breakdown

edit: From a quick look through the thread, it looks like some PDFs of complaints and responses were attached directly to Dakka posts but I could have sworn you could access them as well on the BBB site last summer as well. Am I remembering that incorrectly? When I last looked in the summer, IIRC they had 3-4 complaints and a C+ rating. They're now down to an F with 13 complaints.

I'm pretty sure people were uploading the PDF's they received from the BBB, of the responses the BBB were getting from Palladium. I think some people hosted them on other sites (Dropbox?), but I can't recall ever seeing them hosted by the BBB.

As to the F grade, that's hilarious. But also reason, I suspect, that PB are apparently not responding to complaints anymore. It's not like their stock with that institution can get any worse. So why waste the time and energy? PB likely realize the BBB are at best, a paper tiger.

And here we were thinking that Kevin was incapable of changing. That doesn't seem to be the case. He's learnt that he doesn't have to bother with the BBB. Progress!

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Maybe they are taking a page from the GW playbook in the silence????? Of course, GW at least has(had) a vastly larger playerbase to be able to succeed at that particular choice, and even still, I think they are starting to fail using that system.

GW doesn't take your money 3 years in advance, and still deliver nothing, with no signs of progress in almost a year. They can be 'silent', and you can disagree with that, but it is nowhere near the same as taking money for a Kickstarter, delivering a fraction of what you were supposed to, then not talking about it.

 warboss wrote:
Looks good! What kit originally did you get the bits from?

MS Blade. I think they're really supposed to adorn robot foreheads.

Thanks!

I'm going to try a bulkier fighter with forward swept wings next. When I'm ready to look at the RTT sprues again.

I think when Kevin started this endeavor, he was really jazzed about it.

The moment, however, he found out there was real work involved he started to lose interest.

When it started taking away time from what he felt was his "real" business of making RPG books (even though they're only doing 1-2 a year), he's put the project on the back burner (behind his 3-year late RPG books). Given time (and enough money), he believes he'll eventually get it out.

What's made it worse to him is that the "fans" aren't given him a standing ovation for what he's already done and are instead growing increasingly hostile towards the KS (and him). I believe that's turned any incentive for him to complete this to "screw this, they'll get it when I'm darn good and ready".

I think the last straw is that ultimately, they DON'T have the funds. Kevin has deluded himself into believing they do, or that they can replace the funds they've already spent. But the truth is the piddly amount PB makes is doing nothing but see the company slowly sliding into a hole. My strong guess is they've been operating at a loss for years, the KS gave them enough funds to drag out the company's demise for another 10 years or so, but the funds for Wave 2 aren't there anymore - and never will be again.

And Kevin wants to blame us all for not being patient enough to give him the time to do this all properly, on HIS schedule - even though he's squatting on our money and wasting our time.