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 Swabby wrote:
Did anyone catch this use of SNAFU in the weekly update?

"Apparently there was a SNAFU at the printer that has delayed CS Heroes of Humanity™.

Is this Kev admitting that fracked up timelines are the norm for his product, or an innocent misuse of a sarcasm laden acronym?

...I thought they printed their books in-house?

 Talizvar wrote:
Anyone who does not make mistakes is either not doing anything or is in denial... I have so little evidence of any recent work on his part to know which it is.

Clue: If you said to Kev that he'd spent two years doing nothing, he'd deny it!

And Occam's Razor says that the obvious answer is the correct one most of the time. If only we could get public opinion of RRT low enough, he'd probably deny that it was anything to do with PB. We could then get him to disappear up his own Schwarzschild radius by suing his own company for copyright infringement.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Did anyone catch this use of SNAFU in the weekly update?

"Apparently there was a SNAFU at the printer that has delayed CS Heroes of Humanity™.

Is this Kev admitting that fracked up timelines are the norm for his product, or an innocent misuse of a sarcasm laden acronym?

...I thought they printed their books in-house?

No they write in house, and I use the term write loosely as 75% of what they write is stats which I can do, and have done, in my sleep. My personal wiki is proof of that LOL

They use a printing company to actually produce the hard copies of the books.

Plus writing "in-house" can be used loosely since most of their stable of writers are contract.

Funny, the majority of public opinion on RRT appears to be "meh".
Kevin would look at it as a win since everyone is "happy".
Especially when a "vocal minority's" views and opinions can be discounted.
Over 3 years late on delivery but haterz are gonna hate no matter what you do.

So! Let's talk about other Kickstarter, and fulfillments.

Some time ago (middle of march, really) I got into a KS for a new edition of a game. You might have heard about it, a little game called 7th Sea. It got big, for an RPG. As big as RRT, actually. The estimated delivery date for the core book (it unlocked a whole lot of additional books) was for october.

I just got the pdf today. The book will be delivered before Gen Con. And funnily enough, the company doesn't have 3 decades of experience, either!

That's an impressive total for what at its core amounts to an RPG book (although it was always more than that in reality). I don't remember that title being all that popular back in the 90's and early 00's and I was going to conventions alot at that time. I'm a bit surprised that it garnered so much but congrats to them and to their fans who will soon be receiving what they were promised.

Yeah, I wish I'd known about the 7th sea kickstarter before it started, I would like to have picked up the revised core rulebook (unfortunately, my funds are tapped out now). I had plenty of fun with the original game, and had picked up most of the supplements (I think I'm missing one or two secret societies). Good on them for being on top of their kickstarter!

I may be wrong, but the group that did 7th sea also did Legends of the 5 Rings too? Both also had a card game that was fairly popular for the time, sadly the 7th sea card game didn't survive. What was really interesting was that both RPG lines had an evolving timeline that was based on the player's action - mostly the card game, as I recall. For example, the Montaige Revolution was one of those things you could see being set up when the game was introduced, and it was interesting to get a campaign based on Theah's version of the French Revolution.

 Albertorius wrote:
Some time ago (middle of march, really) I got into a KS for a new edition of a game. You might have heard about it, a little game called 7th Sea. It got big, for an RPG. As big as RRT, actually. The estimated delivery date for the core book (it unlocked a whole lot of additional books) was for october.
I just got the pdf today. The book will be delivered before Gen Con. And funnily enough, the company doesn't have 3 decades of experience, either!

Bbbbuttt!
It is "just" an RPG... printers and pdf's how hard can it be?
"Perfect" little plastic miniatures require strange things like 3D models, splitting, die design and die cutting which is being 'handled" as we speak.
By whom, I am unsure if PB knows.

Getting a new rulebook and some 12 source books would take Palladium some 13 years to produce! (they can only make one book of each type in a year you know!).
It hardly seems fair to compare.

(All kidding aside, that is a cool RPG, I played "James Bond" a similar mechanic game and it too made use of "hero points" which got you into the style as well as substance of role play.)

The die design and cutting are being done by the mould bunnies they keep behind the fridge, Kev's doing fine as he miss-heard and is currently gathering all the spitting the backers are doing, and believes all models are 3D, after all, if it's small and you can touch it, it must be a model, right?



Off home for 3 days. It's a 4 hour journey, and I won't have internet whilst I am there, but can't wait!

Stormonu wrote:I may be wrong, but the group that did 7th sea also did Legends of the 5 Rings too? Both also had a card game that was fairly popular for the time, sadly the 7th sea card game didn't survive. What was really interesting was that both RPG lines had an evolving timeline that was based on the player's action - mostly the card game, as I recall. For example, the Montaige Revolution was one of those things you could see being set up when the game was introduced, and it was interesting to get a campaign based on Theah's version of the French Revolution.

Originally both were developed by AEG, yes, and had CCGs with evolving timelines. Having that evolving timeline has its perks and its drawbacks.

Talizvar wrote:Bbbbuttt!
It is "just" an RPG... printers and pdf's how hard can it be?

Dunno. Ask Palladium regarding their Norther Gun "kickstarters"? Or better yet, the Mechanoids book .

(All kidding aside, that is a cool RPG, I played "James Bond" a similar mechanic game and it too made use of "hero points" which got you into the style as well as substance of role play.)

Well, the system is quite different from the one from 1st edition, so time will tell. The setting update so far looks good.

So....anime north today. Busiest day of the con. Almost no one at the booth all afternoon. My friend rob, and fellow backer, was doing rrt demos. He did 5 20 minutes demos by 530pm. 2 with me, because he is my friend and i felt bad. The 1st one was at 1pm. 1st one for the day.

Kevin was only around to do his rpg event. Apparently he did a panel on mecha/creature creation which i literally out loud about when i saw it listed.

Otherwise not at the booth. And for someone who busted wing bothers him so much he hardly wore the sling whenever i saw him which i then generally walked the other way.

Wayne i stayed away from lest i start verbally slapping him. Chuck i talked too quite a bit. Nice guy. I feel sorry him honestly.

jaymz wrote:
So....anime north today. Busiest day of the con. Almost no one at the booth all afternoon. My friend rob, and fellow backer, was doing rrt demos. He did 5 20 minutes demos by 530pm. 2 with me, because he is my friend and i felt bad. The 1st one was at 1pm. 1st one for the day.

Kevin was only around to do his rpg event. Apparently he did a panel on mecha/creature creation which i literally out loud about when i saw it listed.

Otherwise not at the booth. And for someone who busted wing bothers him so much he hardly wore the sling whenever i saw him which i then generally walked the other way.

Wayne i stayed away from lest i start verbally slapping him. Chuck i talked too quite a bit. Nice guy. I feel sorry him honestly.

so as far as today goes, PB wasted their money going to the con

Oh likely lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The worst part? I really do LIKE the game *sigh*

jaymz wrote:
Oh likely lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The worst part? I really do LIKE the game *sigh*

I liked the concept then saw what PB did to it.

Asterios wrote:
so as far as today goes, PB wasted their money going to the con

Absolutely not! You can't put a price on the kind of massive ego stroke Kevin gets from thinking he's an industry leader..

Oh, you mean in actual terms of money spent vs money made? Probably. Since when does Kevin give a crap about that?

Asterios wrote:

jaymz wrote:
Oh likely lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The worst part? I really do LIKE the game *sigh*

I liked the concept then saw what PB did to it.

Every first edition of a game has a WTF rule. The overall game was actually pretty good, blasts were a bit OP, buildings were too weak, and melee was overcomplicated, but other than that the game worked rather well. The game was better balanced than GW products, but not as well as Warmahordes, X-wing, or Battletech. Not saying these games are perfect, but they have a bit more internal balance than RRT did. The game, in itself, was good, the people in control of it.......

I can confirm much of what Jamz posted earlier.

I finally broke down and got some of their GHQ pewter models and a bunch for Nesbet: we almost wiped them out on models.

I had an extended conversation with Kevin and Wayne.
Nothing all that enlightening really.
Some of the conversation showed Wayne had some supplier information and process knowledge for smaller batch molds so that was hopeful.
Best reading between the lines I can get is Wayne is trying to convince Kevin to go ahead with a cheaper, smaller run method that still gives good detail.
Kevin is not clear on the details and is most likely wanting to be sure it is the cheaper way to go and still be "good" models.
So it looks like quite a few suppliers are in quote limbo until a decision is made and to not tip their hand with other suppliers we are in "progress" limbo.
Resin-like material looks like it may be in our future.... maybe.
It is looking very much a long term PB project which would remain on hold until certain Kevin conditions are met..

I grabbed a card from a 3D printer they had advertising at their table that I could post later when I go through my stuff from the convention.
Probably the same guys who printed the last couple models we saw.
Wayne was kind enough to show me and let me hold the Armored Valkyrie: it IS an impressive.3d print, looked better in person.
Now if only they could get most of that detail into our hands.
They had the models in a case, did not even bother to display them.

Kevin is the "in-charge boss" and Wayne is nervous minion trying to cover all bases.
Kevin is very nice and speaks well, but yeah, he was there to lead role-play and Wayne looked rather lonely manning the booth by himself most of the time.

Jamz's friend was dressed as freaking Bretai, the costume was very good.
Painted models in a Zent. debris field in space was very nice to see, he did a great job.
Unfortunately I think the convention had much younger leaning: the bayblade booth was hopping while PB was a ghost-town other than the RPG game being held.

Thanks for the updates. I don't care what material its in after 3 years and counting at this point (barring the ridiculous mashed potato jokes of 2015) as long as it's an industry standard one (resin, pvc, hips, metal, etc). It won't help the community, the game, or palladium much at this point but will rather just serve to close the book on a 25 year dream of what could have been but wasn't.

Yeah, I'm with Warboss on this one. Not that I expect Kevin or anyone capable of moving things forward to read this (and it's even less likely they'd care, obviously), but I'd happily take a 10 or 20% hit in 'mouth watering detail' to have these things, y'know, actually exist.

Add in the fact that a materials change might even manage to... gasp... reduce the parts count, it could be a win/win/win.

Oh well, maybe we'll get some more info at Gencon. I mean, surely they'll manage to sort *something* out in the next 2 months? :-P

*NOTE THAT IS MASSIVE SARCASM THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE THAT POINT YES RICK I'M LOOKING AT YOU*

 Forar wrote:
Yeah, I'm with Warboss on this one. Not that I expect Kevin or anyone capable of moving things forward to read this (and it's even less likely they'd care, obviously), but I'd happily take a 10 or 20% hit in 'mouth watering detail' to have these things, y'know, actually exist.

Add in the fact that a materials change might even manage to... gasp... reduce the parts count, it could be a win/win/win.

Oh well, maybe we'll get some more info at Gencon. I mean, surely they'll manage to sort *something* out in the next 2 months? :-P

*NOTE THAT IS MASSIVE SARCASM THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE THAT POINT YES RICK I'M LOOKING AT YOU*

keep hearing my name and wondering why ?

Yeah, agree with warboss. Frankly, making the rest of the models in hips will be throwing good money after bad, as they won't be selling nearly enough to justify the moulds, so they should be looking for an affordable option for smaller batches (that is, the backers and a leftover to sell at conventions and the like).

Were not for the fact that I shudder at the thought of mixing PB and Prodos in a KS endeavour, something like that new unicast process that Prodos have been toting lately would probably be the way to go...

Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.

Prodos says a lot of things...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.

Prodos says a lot of things...

problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.

Prodos says a lot of things...

problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.

Are they not in breach of contract already, technically? They also promised backer would get their stuff before anyone else, after all... I'd rather have a solution so as to be done with this farce and forget that PB even exists forever and ever than drag this out even more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.

Prodos says a lot of things...

True. That's why I said "something like that": relatively inexpensive smallish production run, kind of fast.

To add to my previous post ....

My friend ran 11 demos over 16ish hours sat/sun. He was dressed as a zentraedi officer. 10 of those demos were abput 20-25 minutes each and 1 that at most was an hour (did all demos but 1 with only a single core unit per side). He drove an hour each way both days to do all of this. Palladium themselves did no demos of their own and had none of the 3d prints of 2nd wave material on display.

His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon.

This is why their MA program fails.

...wow. Well, now I can say for certain that PB treats their MA worse than GW used to treat their redshirts during Games Day. And that's saying something. We at least got free lunchs (well, subs, but still).

jaymz wrote:
To add to my previous post ....

My friend ran 11 demos over 16ish hours sat/sun. He was dressed as a zentraedi officer. 10 of those demos were abput 20-25 minutes each and 1 that at most was an hour (did all demos but 1 with only a single core unit per side). He drove an hour each way both days to do all of this. Palladium themselves did no demos of their own and had none of the 3d prints of 2nd wave material on display.

His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon.

This is why their MA program fails.

You can't put an exact price on standing next to greatness, if only for a fleeting moment. That is the real compensation palladium lavishes on their indentured servants. Like the Oscars and this kickstarter, it's simply an honor to be allowed to volunteer your money/time and we're lucky to be graced with His occasional attention.

Thanks for the clarification Jamz, yeah, he did not have the metal head.
That was a hot day, thank goodness for air-conditioning: that outfit would have been hot.

I suspect they treat their MA people no different than their employees which would not say much.
The demo was the most interesting looking thing there.
Yup, all the 3D kickstarter prints were sitting in a box not on display (so why bring them?).

For some reason, they had "Wildcat Engineering Solutions" displayed at their booth with the printed storm trooper blaster and other stuff.
www.WildcatES.ca
He might be a "fan friend" and may have provided the 3D prints we have seen (in his gallery he can be seen with a Palladium shirt on, main page "Networking for Nerds").

I have a new concern now: I had not seen a booth in all of Anime North that generated so little interest.
I saw a T-shirt vendor get more attention (why does this comparison seem unfair?)

 Albertorius wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.

Prodos says a lot of things...

problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.

Are they not in breach of contract already, technically? They also promised backer would get their stuff before anyone else, after all... I'd rather have a solution so as to be done with this farce and forget that PB even exists forever and ever than drag this out even more.

yes in breach of contract with overseas buyers, but much harder for them to bring cause when over seas.

 Talizvar wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Jamz, yeah, he did not have the metal head.
That was a hot day, thank goodness for air-conditioning: that outfit would have been hot.

I suspect they treat their MA people no different than their employees which would not say much.
The demo was the most interesting looking thing there.
Yup, all the 3D kickstarter prints were sitting in a box not on display (so why bring them?).

For some reason, they had "Wildcat Engineering Solutions" displayed at their booth with the printed storm trooper blaster and other stuff.
www.WildcatES.ca
He might be a "fan friend" and may have provided the 3D prints we have seen (in his gallery he can be seen with a Palladium shirt on, main page "Networking for Nerds").

I have a new concern now: I had not seen a booth in all of Anime North that generated so little interest.
I saw a T-shirt vendor get more attention (why does this comparison seem unfair?)

something tells me their advertising at PB may have been their fee for doing up the 3D models PB showed us, since PB was lacking on Cash.

Asterios wrote:
something tells me their advertising at PB may have been their fee for doing up the 3D models PB showed us, since PB was lacking on Cash.

The thought crossed my mind as well (pretty sure I said as much...).

Wonder when a new "character model" of the "Armored Valk" will appear from GHQ?
The female suit in pewter is freaking heavy BTW, I will need to weigh that thing on it's own, I swear it is a half pound.

Soon, I will complete my Robotech, with or without PB.