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It is pretty astonishing that a company like this refuses to engage in social media directly, but relies on enthusiastic customers to run it for them and then doesn't even maintain a centralized control over the various outlets.

Is it? One of the things you just listed is free. One isn't.

Simbieda's Razor - If it doesn't result in a direct exchange of cash for product, it isn't worth doing.

About those Malcontents dice.... these look kinda familiar....

Oh, thanks, now the petty cash left over from the $1.44M will end up going to Kevin's lawyer.

 Stormonu wrote:
I've been starting work on adapting the Robotech series to the flightpath system - used by X-Wing, Star Trek Attack Wing and D&D Attack Wing.

This is a very rough draft at the moment, with only some of the Macross (UEDF and Zents) and a bit of the Invid converted. I haven't attempted to do point costs yet, nor have I had a chance for playtesting. Any opinions on what I do have I'd appreciate, though.

Forgot to post about this... I also got the idea of doing something along these lines for my minis.

Now, today we've played the first game of the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster cooperative campaign, and it was so great that I'm thinking about mixing boh ideas... so thank you very much for this

 fellowhoodlum wrote:
About those Malcontents dice.... these look kinda familiar....

actually the design is part of Chessex's lineup.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Yeah, RRT, the Tom Reidy fiasco, All Quiet on the Martian Front and the AVP KS have turned me off from any more KS. Which is a shame, because I had such a good experience with Zombicide 2 & 3.

KS's attitude (both of them) have just shown me it's too much of risk to bother with; I'll just show a little patience and wait for retail anymore.

That's quite a tabletop list you've got there. Off the top of my head, you're just missing the ice age mammals and heroquest fiascos to round out the bunch.

Reidy is Defiance Games? So he backed the Defiance KS, or Torn Armor? Or both? Also, he could have backed Imbrian Arts (Jody Siegel) for yet another KS that keeps on failing to deliver.

I almost want to know what he backs so I can run away screaming.

Yep, Reidy was the man behind Defiance Games. There's strong evidence that the Power Armor Hardsuit KS was a fraud from the start, deliberately created to pay off other debts with no intention of producing anything.

He was also contracted to do the miniatures for Torn Armor (I contacted the person behind Torn Armor for information about Defiance Games, as the backers there were preparing to work with AG - alas, we were too late as two other companies he had contracted with sued him into bankruptcy). I'm not familiar with Imbrian Arts, but it may be that could have been the other company he cheated out of funds in promising miniatures.

Reidy and Sembedia should share a jail cell together, in my opinion.

You can say there was intentional fraud on this kickstarter. I recall reading something Kevin wrote to assure his fan friends this Robotech game wasn't going to take away from PB's RPG work, even saying the Kickstarter would help pay off debts/bills and make it possible to do more RPG stuff, or words to that effect. Think it was in a murmur. Do you have that, Forar? Sure would be nice to quote in an AG and FTC complaint.

Northern Gun, anyone?

Autarch wrote:
You can say there was intentional fraud on this kickstarter. I recall reading something Kevin wrote to assure his fan friends this Robotech game wasn't going to take away from PB's RPG work, even saying the Kickstarter would help pay off debts/bills and make it possible to do more RPG stuff, or words to that effect. Think it was in a murmur. Do you have that, Forar? Sure would be nice to quote in an AG and FTC complaint.

I have it somewhere. Morgan's probably got it bookmarked.

Off the top of my head, they said something to the effect of 'RRT would allow PB to pay off debts, etc, etc'. A charitable reading of that was "if this is a success, we'll pull in a ton of cash with which to pay off debts and fund stuff". A less charitable reading was "we'll pay off debts and fund other stuff with this money".

Even as a jaded soul who has zero empathy or benefit of the doubt for PB, I always read the former from it. Outright stating "we're gonna steal from these people y'all" in a public release like that is just too cartoonishly stupid. Yes, they seem very self centered and prone to stepping on their di... wangs, as a friend often points out, but announcing an intent to cheat people out of cash leading up to the point at which they ask for cash is just that step too far for me.

Glancing through Google, the wayback machine doesn't seem to have the page archived, and they updated the original "Prepare For Invasion" page at least once with info from the KS, so the exact wording I'm thinking of isn't popping out. I'll see what else I can find. I recall what you're mentioning, but haven't easily found something to cut/paste (as is the Palladium way) just yet.

Though this might at least be closer to what we're thinking of:

Why should you care?

The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter helps Palladium to fund the launch of a compelling and expanding game line designed specifically for Robotech® fans and gamers.

Six months of product development has produced nearly two dozen gorgeous sculptures (with more to come), a mountain of artwork, and game rules that have been play-tested by more than 100 Robotech fans and gamers to ensure we make Robotech® RPG Tactics™ everything you could want.

Once the Kickstarter reaches our funding goal, we have a host of fantastic upgrades, additional game pieces and new unit add-ons to unlock! Every Destroid. More Zentraedi mecha. More fun!

And because so much is DONE, this project should go into manufacturing within 45 days after the Kickstarter! That’s fast.

 Forar wrote:

Even as a jaded soul who has zero empathy or benefit of the doubt for PB, I always read the former from it. Outright stating "we're gonna steal from these people y'all" in a public release like that is just too cartoonishly stupid. Yes, they seem very self centered and prone to stepping on their di... wangs, as a friend often points out, but announcing an intent to cheat people out of cash leading up to the point at which they ask for cash is just that step too far for me.

well if they paid off their debts thinking they had a "winner" product not realizing it was not and they had no future sales, or they used the KS money to pay for all that stock they got and sold some and used the money from the sales to pay off their debts, the issue comes down to is, their priority should have been the backers, now they could set aside money for advertising and promotional material, but it should only be about 10% of the budget until all backers received product to be on the safe side of the law, up to 20% would be pushing it into the fraud territory.

my FPAs going after a super:

Oh boy...

And because so much is DONE, this project should go into manufacturing within 45 days after the Kickstarter! That’s fast.

Kevin did indeed mention using the RTT KS to launch new RPG material, as part of the build up.

From the man himself from the PB Upate Feb 2013


[quote}. Robotech® RPG Tactics™ gives us a chance to work with the wonderful talent pool at Ninja Division (the creative wizards of Soda Pop Miniatures and Cipher Studios). Again, you don’t pass up an opportunity to work with talent of this caliber.

3. The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric.

Please be assured that Palladium is a role-playing game company, first and foremost. RPGs shall always remain our primary business. In fact, the success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ will enable us to do more of the role-playing game releases you love. There is a reason I’ve been designing and writing role-playing games for 32 years: I love them more than anything. For business and marketing reasons, I cannot reveal to you our every plan months or years in advance. I can tell you we have big plans and dozens of RPG products in the pipeline and on the drawing board. Plans that I believe can carry role-playing to new heights and new markets. In fact, I have plans to do things with role-playing games others may have not yet considered. And that’s why we can’t talk about all our plans for new systems of play, RPG products and marketing ideas. They have to remain top secret until we have the resources to make them a reality. The release of a greater number of RPG books and bold new ventures like Robotech® RPG Tactics™ will enable us to make that happen.

See nothing has really changed after three years, still the same rainbow gushing from KS.

Points of interest

The way he talks up Ninja divsion
Even then he was stressing the "role playing" side of the business was where they were and always were at

Most damning is an open admission - which he will rewrite in the PB Ministry of Truth - that he saw the KS as an opportunity to eliminate PB's debts and indirectly fund other projects - perhaps that is why Northern Gun amongst others appeared so readily after the RTT KS funded?

I guess one good thing about this colossal cluster is that I've been able to go to a local store and buy extra expansion sets for $12-15 Canadian on a whim for the last 6 months. The stock hasn't changed except for what I've taken since they put it on clearance, so I've been in no rush.

I'll have tons of variety for my Horizon Wars games

Yes, that's the "eliminate debt" verbiage I was talking about.

The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric.

A few times people have referenced it like a tacit admission that they were going to misappropriate funds.

Again, even as a vocal critic of, well, everything they do, that always struck me more as "if this project takes off we'll have the spare resources to fund more RRT stuff and other projects yay", rather than a mustache twirling "once I pilfer those funds..." kind of sentiment.

But that's just my read on it. I can see how others might feel otherwise, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Edit: also, as Morgan pointed out to me in passing, the big active thread in PB's RRT subforum is gone again. Oh noes, Jefffar, what have we done this time? Please send it back to us! (I thought about going with the Taken speech, but while funnier in my head, probably isn't worth going overboard and melodramatic with)

I assume they want to hide the bad news from the world because Gen Con is coming and they're hoping to unload some of those pallets of millstones around their neck.

 brettness37 wrote:

I guess one good thing about this colossal cluster is that I've been able to go to a local store and buy extra expansion sets for $12-15 Canadian on a whim for the last 6 months. The stock hasn't changed except for what I've taken since they put it on clearance, so I've been in no rush.

I'll have tons of variety for my Horizon Wars games

My local store is extremely slow adding stuff to clearance. They have an unchanging stock of RTT, DUST Tactics, and even Starship Troopers, all taking up shelf space at full MSRP.

Merijeek wrote:
I assume they want to hide the bad news from the world because Gen Con is coming and they're hoping to unload some of those pallets of millstones around their neck.

That's my assumption as well. They first start with the quarterly STFU, peasants! pre-gencon "update" that says absolutely nothing new and then houseclean all the negativity with a round of bannings/warnings/disappearing posts on social media they control. All we need now is the fluff piece interview with Gamer Goggles and the yearly cycle will be complete.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 brettness37 wrote:

I guess one good thing about this colossal cluster is that I've been able to go to a local store and buy extra expansion sets for $12-15 Canadian on a whim for the last 6 months. The stock hasn't changed except for what I've taken since they put it on clearance, so I've been in no rush.

I'll have tons of variety for my Horizon Wars games

My local store is extremely slow adding stuff to clearance. They have an unchanging stock of RTT, DUST Tactics, and even Starship Troopers, all taking up shelf space at full MSRP.

Brookhurst, War House, or both?

 warboss wrote:

Merijeek wrote:
I assume they want to hide the bad news from the world because Gen Con is coming and they're hoping to unload some of those pallets of millstones around their neck.

That's my assumption as well. They first start with the quarterly STFU, peasants! pre-gencon "update" that says absolutely nothing new and then houseclean all the negativity with a round of bannings/warnings/disappearing posts on social media they control. All we need now is the fluff piece interview with Gamer Goggles and the yearly cycle will be complete.

Hey, that sounds familiar!

Re the PB RTT thread - I had the last post and critised their meagre offering for RTT at Gencon. I speculate dtha the old demo tables from a couple of years ago might still be in use

Also more crtitisism comparing the hyperbole shown on the last couple of PBWU about two packs of playing cards as opposed to something they received $1.4 million for.

However, I did note that The "Red Duke" chipped in on the pld Strategicon thread to announce four games he is running at Gencon

 warboss wrote:

Merijeek wrote:
I assume they want to hide the bad news from the world because Gen Con is coming and they're hoping to unload some of those pallets of millstones around their neck.

That's my assumption as well. They first start with the quarterly STFU, peasants! pre-gencon "update" that says absolutely nothing new and then houseclean all the negativity with a round of bannings/warnings/disappearing posts on social media they control. All we need now is the fluff piece interview with Gamer Goggles and the yearly cycle will be complete.

That shows more forethought and caring than we've seen in the past.
Kevin isn't interested in social media and remains unaware of what goes on there.
Which leads to the enthusiastic fan volunteers, who don't know how to manage social media professionally, get no direction from the company and take it as a personal affront if you criticize what they love.
Such a poor way to manage image, which translates directly into dollars.

wilycoyote wrote:
However, I did note that The "Red Duke" chipped in on the pld Strategicon thread to announce four games he is running at Gencon

Well, they can't just frankly admit that the last activity in that subforum was from May without our little conversation. /lol

well anyone looking for PB on Facebook should find the lawsuit group now:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/510264239170789/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

(came up second on search for palladium books on facebook)

Well, back from vacation and looking at a bunch of minis and molding supplies.
I guess all that is left to us is showing our own wave 2 progress.
I keep forgetting that any VT based unit like the Super need 3 versions each.
I suppose I should be thankful Zents don't transform.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The people in Rifts-Savage Worlds seem to be pleasing the folks there. Actually getting stuff out sooner than scheduled with good reviews.
So this is what IP licensing looks like when PB is properly hands off.

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, back from vacation and looking at a bunch of minis and molding supplies.
I guess all that is left to us is showing our own wave 2 progress.
I keep forgetting that any VT based unit like the Super need 3 versions each.
I suppose I should be thankful Zents don't transform.

Exactly. No vacation for me, but I worked the other day in casting the super valks bits needed. I kept in mind that my friend wants 5 supervalks in the three modes, quite a lot of pieces xD
Here are the test castings:







Today I plan to cast all bits needed for 5 supervalks, hopefully everything goes right and I can post pics tomorrow



And, in other more joyful news: jj_b has put the Gnerls in FUD three packs, for $43.50 per pack.





Avaliable here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/QEA355FWH/gnerl-hollow-3p

 Nesbet wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, back from vacation and looking at a bunch of minis and molding supplies.
I guess all that is left to us is showing our own wave 2 progress.
I keep forgetting that any VT based unit like the Super need 3 versions each.
I suppose I should be thankful Zents don't transform.

Exactly. No vacation for me, but I worked the other day in casting the super valks bits needed. I kept in mind that my friend wants 5 supervalks in the three modes, quite a lot of pieces xD
Here are the test castings:

reminds me I need to assemble my Super valk fighter mode, but also have some Spartans to finish.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 brettness37 wrote:

I guess one good thing about this colossal cluster is that I've been able to go to a local store and buy extra expansion sets for $12-15 Canadian on a whim for the last 6 months. The stock hasn't changed except for what I've taken since they put it on clearance, so I've been in no rush.

I'll have tons of variety for my Horizon Wars games

My local store is extremely slow adding stuff to clearance. They have an unchanging stock of RTT, DUST Tactics, and even Starship Troopers, all taking up shelf space at full MSRP.

Brookhurst, War House, or both?

Brookhurst. Where is war house?

@Nesbet: Congrats on the new pieces (both your own work and the shapeways ones). They look quite nice!