Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There's plenty of good mecha games rolling about, it's just frustrating that this one - with "official" designs from a beloved cartoon took a rather ungraceful dive into a burning dumpster.

Our local motorhead, Mike1975 has tried to make a living game out of this carcass, but it hasn't seemed to catch on. It's like folks are waiting for the original publisher to support it or something (that last bit is sarcasm, if you weren't aware).

The people who've done "something about it" appear to have been moved on, completely. If the other people here are like me, we're mostly off on our other hobbies, and we just check in regularly to see if this slow-moving train wreck has finished yet, waiting for the cloud of debris to settle just so we see how the whole thing finally pans out. And throw out a few jabs at the perpetrators so they don't get off bilking us for free. I've still got a few hundred dollars worth of jabs to get out of my system - it's going to be a while, since opinions cost nothing.

<EDIT> If they would deliver Wave 2 or come out and tell us the project is dead and they're done, this thread would probably die in a week. As long as the KS continues to sit and spin, going nowhere, this thread probably will as well.

It's not like posting and reading in here takes up a lot of time in aggregate. I don't think anyone here is having their life profoundly impacted by this ongoing gakshow. It's basically Dakka's Misc Sci-Fi equivalent of an old 12 Step Program where we mostly just check in to say hi, crack a little snark, and hope that the coffee/cookies at break time are worth showing up for.

PB drops a weekly newsletter, or Scott posts his bi-weekly Not An Update and they garner a little eye rolling and snark. Lives are not in jeopardy of being wasted any more than they would be as we while away a little time on any number of other forums or topics.

Bluntly put, it's adorable that your wording still alludes, however unintentionally, that we require your permission or approval. (Spoiler: obviously we don't).

It is Alpharius' willingness to leave us a long running space for venting and mockery that is appreciated and respected. Bluntly, we've had dozens of people come and go, usually with nothing vested or to say but 'omg why worry about it', as though contributing hundreds or perhaps substantially more to a gakshow of a project is something that isn't worth being frustrated by.

If nothing else, it is a public service. Anyone who might stumble across one of the largest war gaming forums on the internet and looking for a discussion on the topic of RRT might just find us, and see that there is a lot of chatter! And then find out just how much of a gakshow that chatter indicates this game/project to be.

 Stormonu wrote:
Out of idle curiosity, what is the state of everyone's collection?

I finished assembling one modded Veritech in Guardian mode, started painting it, screwed up, stripped the paint off, primed it again, then... forgot about it to work on X-Men and Warmachine models. I recently took it back out of storage and it's sitting on my desk at the top of the "waiting to be painted" queue, but... I haven't actually gotten around to starting on it again yet.

I'm not really feeling motivated right now; too busy with various other hobbies (coughOverwatchcough), never mind "Real Life". I've just kind of been demotivated with painting in general lately to be honest. My long-term plan for my Robotech miniatures (once I decided the game wasn't for me) was originally just a handful of minis: one Veritech (by which I mean one, not "one in each mode") each for Roy, Max, Miriya, and maybe Ben, and one Veritech in each mode in a custom paint scheme. Nowadays I don't know if I'll ever find the time for them, there's just so much else on my list and I'm just so bad at sticking to one thing.

Must be the exception, I got everything assembled and painted from Wave 1(Showdown pledge) To be fair I had been laid up for a few weeks and the idea of still getting the wave 2 stuff was more reality than fantasy.

Got a fair few games in as well but without the options from wave 2 the Zentradi get very stale - nevermind difficult to win with. Switched to Mike's Nodal Wars and then the new version for a while and even mucked around using the under appreciated Horizon Wars.

Now the models are stored away and I have moved on to other games

 Stormonu wrote:

Out of idle curiosity, what is the state of everyone's collection?

Last year I moved and only had one buddy to show up and help.. Even had offered cash money..
But after moving all my game stuff he fell in love with the Box set (our group played a ton of Robotech
RPG in the 80's) and I offered everything in lieu of money.

Explained the background what the complaints about building and current condition of the kickstarter but
he was fine with it.. Actually he was one of our better modelers/ painter growing up, so wasn't to worried.

Then about a month later, he texted me telling me that he assembled one battle pod and drove him insane..
Compared it to home dentistry, Never saw the finished model when I was at his house and we rarely discuss
the game because we have other more "active" games to talk about.

I assembled a dozen pods (they're not bad) and painted six of them, and assembled one troika of valkyries - those are terrible. 45 minute assembly time per valkyrie, regardless of configuration? When it became apparent that the stuff I really wanted (all the interesting Zentradi stuff) was going to be indefinitely delayed, I gave up and shelved it. The game mechanics didn't impress me.

 Stormonu wrote:
Out of idle curiosity, what is the state of everyone's collection?

MOSTLY WAITING FOR DELIVERY!

I split for $40 worth of the pledge bonuses and added $40 for the Monster. I've gotten roughly $25 of it, but it is assembled and gathering dust.

... as of March, 2015. So more than 2-1/2 years and nothing.

All wave 1 assembled. Frak painting since no one other than 1 guy anywhere near me plays and he has double what i have i just use his.

I went to an not so local (50+ miles away) FLGS swap meet and found my second ever person in a major metro US city to have bought the game. He didn't back the KS but bought two boxes at retail. He couldn't convince anyone to play and was selling at a good discount. Sadly, I had similar luck but at least I have roughly 250pts sans copious upgrades painted for both factions. I sold off my own unpainted sprues at a big discount and left myself one sprue of each type in case I ever want to make more.

Not too long after receiving wave one I built about a dozen figures (I want to say maybe 6 Battlepods and a pair of VT's in all 3 modes?), which have been tucked away in my closet for the last 3 years or so, along with a small amount of each figure type (like, 2 of each Destroid, a few more pods and VTs, etc), but out of the 3 Battle Cry tiers I personally received from the 8 that my friends and I ordered together, I sold off the vast majority shortly after it came in.

One friend has assembled maybe 2 dozen figures or so, enough to do some tutorials but hasn't ever played the game, far as I know.

The other got 3 BC's as well, and best I can tell they're just sitting in a closet somewhere. He has pondered selling them as well, or just throwing them out, but his interest and engagement is negligible.

I assembled a few Valkyries in fighter and guardian mode, made some of the other mecha, started some Battloid mode Valkyries before deciding I didn't like Battloid mode enough to bother, converted a few fighters, built three normal Z pods, converted three more into more appealing forms, tried to make space fighters out of them, but no wig and makeup can ever get them to look like Gnerls. Mostly, I raid the sprues for bits to add to spaceships I kitbash out of 1/1200 navy ships and Gunpla parts.




In short, I've moved the whole box into the bits bin.


I've scratched my mecha itch with Bandai's Mecha collection minis for a while now.

Yeah...I've had probably the biggest change of anybody here with what I'm doing for a hobby.
Now it's shopping for shoes, and clothes, and jewelry.

Since someone might ask, but nobody really cares:
I got tired of hating myself, and explored the why. Found, that deep down inside, I'm a woman. Started HRT(hormone replacement therapy) and feel better than I have ever felt before. All those buried desires have cropped up, I'd rather get electrolysis, to remove my beard, than get this game, so I want the refund that I know I'll never get.

Gaming was my escape from myself, I don't need it as a crutch anymore.

... I did not see that coming.

Kudos for coming to such a profound realization, and I hope you find happiness in games as a hobby rather than a crutch in the future.

 Forar wrote:
If nothing else, it is a public service. Anyone who might stumble across one of the largest war gaming forums on the internet and looking for a discussion on the topic of RRT might just find us, and see that there is a lot of chatter! And then find out just how much of a gakshow that chatter indicates this game/project to be.

This thread is how I found out about Dakka in the first place. Never heard of it until I googled for RRT news and followed this thread down the rabbit hole.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Yeah...I've had probably the biggest change of anybody here with what I'm doing for a hobby.
Now it's shopping for shoes, and clothes, and jewelry.

Since someone might ask, but nobody really cares:
I got tired of hating myself, and explored the why. Found, that deep down inside, I'm a woman. Started HRT(hormone replacement therapy) and feel better than I have ever felt before. All those buried desires have cropped up, I'd rather get electrolysis, to remove my beard, than get this game, so I want the refund that I know I'll never get.

Gaming was my escape from myself, I don't need it as a crutch anymore.

Conversion was always my favourite part of the hobby too!

Excellent and good for you megatrons2nd. Kudos.

 Vertrucio wrote:
LOL, suit yourselves guys. Keeping the thread around is fine if you feel you need it.
I was just hoping some here would move on and do something like create the thing they've been looking for instead of waiting for a company that is highly unlikely to fulfill your desires.
Fine, you don't need to get over it, but using the anger to move forward is more helpful.
There is a serious lack of a good mecha game on the market, and a group of angry like minded people like in this thread could be motivated to beat RRT at its own game.

To be more constructive in response to moving on:

- Palladium books is still in business and appears to have a habit of over-promising and pretty much very late or never delivering.
There are many factors involved with this, main thing is: they have our money due to what could be argued as fraudulent methods.
This is not something easily let go and is kept active to be a cautionary tale and not let them sweep everything under the rug.
Good therapy as well.

- We wanted Robotech. THIS IP we may be involved in others, but this voicing of displeasure may force some changes, HG the IP holder is licensing a couple other companies that are making games.

- We are not so much "waiting" for them to fulfill our desires, unless you spoke a bit more with the "White Knights" of Palladium. I do admit, by expressing my "needs" very vocally, I am able to get the remaining miniatures I wanted through other means. An arguable success.

- There are many kinds of what I would call "good" mecha games out there but few see any large amount of success. Battletech with their Alphastrike is seeing play with myself and I am sure a few others. Heavy Gear was always in the background for me, but I never really got into it.

Before you find people being upset amusing, please think if some cool thing from your childhood gets dusted off and gets offered in your medium of choice, then you get part of it, the rest is never to be seen again for years at a time, OH, and no-one else is allowed to make it.
It makes things rather hard to "move-on" to something different, that is not what we want and most of us already play all kinds of different games.
Do not assume we are waiting on this one thing in order to play at all.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For how far I have progressed with the hobby, I have been painting up a bit more these guys from a while back:

And have steadily getting in and making some of the remaining models we did not get.
I should take a picture of my Monster: printing at a course resolution makes for a fair bit of cleanup trying to smooth everything out.

 Stormonu wrote:
Out of idle curiosity, what is the state of everyone's collection?

Given that I went back to college during this period, my time on my bench was severely limited and work was done when I could find time between studying and other matters demanding my attention. All my destroids are painted and primed, the majority of my Battle-pods are in mostly assembled, including the recon, officers and artillery battlepods. I want to say about 50% of my battlepods are done, and only a small handful of Valkyrie in all three flight modes have been completed.

I haven't felt any particular need, or desire, to try and complete the rest of it. I have too much of a queue that's becoming less and less on things I want to work on right now.

I have three choices:
1.) Hold on to them on the slimmest chance Wave 2 does get released.
2.) Sell them, but then Wave 2 is released and I get the balance of the figs owed only to have to sell them two.
3.) Chuck them into the garbage compactor.

I'll figure something out...

 n815e wrote:

Yes, your honor, I play with toy soldiers from a cartoon in the 1980s. No I can't play my game with these toys I need toys that look a tiny bit different to REALLY play it.

Did they take money in exchange for a product?
Did they provide everything they agreed to in the contract?
Did they misuse the money?
Did they provide the product in the timeframe that they indicated?
Did they use the methods that they indicated when they took the money?
Did they provide effective communication as to the cause and reasons of the delay?

Nothing else is relevant.

I am not so insecure in my hobbies to be ashamed of playing with toy soldiers in the first place.
I'm an educated and respected professional, a responsible adult, I own property and pay taxes, I have a family. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of what I do with my free time.
If you took my money in exchange for a product -- any product -- in a legal transaction, then you owe me and the law is not going to judge the merit of that based on if it is for toys, car parts, food or any other product.

So this angle of yours to try to belittle what is owed or to shame those who are owed is nonsense.

And, Kev slaps down a quote from China (that nobody can read) and says that is from a week ago and production will maybe start in 2 months. This person is crazy and I don't know why I'm here.

Another bit of nonsense. In your imagination, you think courts don't require documents to have been interpreted.
In your imagination, years of misleading customers can be wiped away with some piece of paper indicating that things will finally start (possibly) moving.
Read your own posts - court isn't like tv.

I'm glad we have someone that pretends to know anything about law, again. It's been a while. The condescension mixed with ignorance is entertaining.

Did they take money in exchange for a product?

No they did not (again, I'm KS only). In KS's ToS you "invest". The risk is on you.

Did they provide everything they agreed to in the contract?

Sort of, they are "working" on wave 2.

Did they misuse the money?

Kev knows, but won't say without thousands of dollars in legal fees.

Did they provide the product in the timeframe that they indicated?

Things happened beyond their control

Did they use the methods that they indicated when they took the money?

What does that mean?

Did they provide effective communication as to the cause and reasons of the delay?

Yes, they provided many, many updates


Again, if anybody wants to file in MI. I'll happily guide them thru the process.

No takers?

Like I've said before in small claims you'll have an hour to explain to the judge why Kev wronged you. You will have to do a bunch of back filling about why you went to these lengths. He just has to show quotes and say "working on it".

If you want to go criminal (lol), assuming a AG pushes it, you have to tell 12 people that couldn't escape thise and have maybe 1 or 2 days (8 to 16 hours) to explain all of this.

Nobody on this board has a single good argument for the following questions:
1) Where is the $
2) Why is it taking so long

Discovery will show that. I'm willing to lawyer up to anybody in MI that wants to waste their time.

Kev can just say:
1) Here are fake (or maybe not) books on how the $ was spent and it 100% went to the project
2) China is hard to deal witrh

We simply don't know the truth

Most likely:
1) Kev spent all of the $ keeping PB afloat
2) Who cares

Anybody want to fly to MI (or is already there) and can give me a call and I'll walk them thru the paperwork?

No? Yeah, that is what I thought

Man, the whole notion of creating the game you want instead of complaining about this situation to move on is just insulting.

We legally cannot. All those dudes selling 3d prints of all the unproduced models and eras are doing so illegally and blantatly violating IP laws.

You cannot legally make and distribute anything involving this IP without coming back to the same stopping poing that continues to get discussed here.

Anyone asserting that we can build the thing we love and move on lacks understanding of the whole situation. It is impossible as long as HG is in the picture.

evancich wrote:
Anybody want to fly to MI (or is already there) and can give me a call and I'll walk them thru the paperwork?
No? Yeah, that is what I thought

Been to Michigan, Dearborn in particular many times, not a very appealing offer.
With no guarantees of an "expert" on the other end despite your swagger it would not be worth the trip.
This offer to "help" sounds disingenuous especially with how "pleasantly" you phrased it.
It would be hard to take any advice you would give without some measure of suspicion.

You could always feel free to expand on what is said here if you really have anything meaningful to add to the topic:
https://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-help-tools/money-and-debt/taking-small-claims-case-court#
This is not rocket science.
Big pain in the rear for a Non-American however.

Plus: griping at Palladium Books is about the right speed for being owed a couple hundred bucks.
If I had bought the "Bursting Point" package, I would have already filed, engaged confirmed experts and been into it while kicking myself the whole time throwing good money after bad but being financially committed.

Nobody on this board has a single good argument for the following questions:
1) Where is the $
2) Why is it taking so long

A good argument?
These questions are the crux of the matter.

I would push refund and call it a day, small claims is all about expedience (done it in my country, I figure judges are not much different anywhere else).
I paid money and did not get all my agreed stuff for years well past the estimated ship date, they give no new ship date and they refuse refunds.
Done.
It would then require taking reasonable steps of showing evidence like the BBB complaints filed and their rather dumb responses back on just asking for a reasonable refund (already asked for the "backerkit" purchases only to be refuneded).
No failure was claimed on their part so the "delay" is completely voluntary and within their control... so refund is the only answer OR being forced into a court ordered ship date (the court would not want to get into an extended argument of that nature).

 Forar wrote:
... I did not see that coming.

Kudos for coming to such a profound realization, and I hope you find happiness in games as a hobby rather than a crutch in the future.

Already at that point. It's just a hobby, and I spend less time on here as well. It's not the all consuming beast it once was. There have been many realizations that I have had in the last few months. Turns out, I've actually lived an amazing life. To bad I wasn't there to truly experience it. I have written two ~500 word essays about myself, and how HRT has helped me. This discovery also awoke a drive to do something with my life. Nothing like just doing things because you had to, as compared to wanting to. Going to school to become a psychologist. I will get to help people, something that I was meant to do.

The first paragraph of the first one:

"Imagine, if you would, waking up every morning with the first thought of the day being “Oh, crap, I woke up”. Then, as you draw your carcass out of the bed, you wonder what fresh hell is going to come your way today. You absolutely hate all of humanity, especially yourself. No matter what happens, all you see is the negative, and feel that everyone is going out of their way just to irritate you. By the end of the day, as you crawl in bed, you wish, pray, and dream of being something you can never be. How would you feel? What would you do?"


There is a lot of pain that I had buried, and tried to escape. You can never get away from yourself.

As to the amazing life I missed. I've been through most of the continental US, been to Niagara Falls twice, been to more countries (6) than the average American will ever see, crossed the international dateline on my 21st birthday landing before I took off; I got to celebrate turning 21 twice, had a Chinese woman's brother tell me that she loved me, Followed the culture of Kuwait by speaking only with the husband; at least until he let me speak with his wife they got comfortable enough with me to let her remove her robes in front of me, she wore a Megadeath T-shirt and jean with ripped up knees underneath it. I learned pressure points, and how to use them for both fighting and relief, from an elderly Korean gentleman. The same gentleman tried to sell me his daughter to marry. I almost died from drinking to much water....twice. Food, my god the food; not all good, or desired, but the stuff I've eaten in various forms: Cat, Dog, Kangaroo, Shark, Frog, Snake, Camel, Squid, Elk, Moose, Octopus, bear, goat, and alligator.

This game I now just a minor irritant in my life. I hope the company burns, but I'd rather live my life, get a refund and be done with it. I'll be content with warning people away from them.

Normally I'm not a fan of 'fisking' posts, but if I add a third layer without some kind of clear demarcation point, it's going to be utterly unreadable.

evancich wrote:
Did they take money in exchange for a product?

No they did not (again, I'm KS only). In KS's ToS you "invest". The risk is on you.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd expect that to be arguable to some degree from the pledge manager. In the Campaign, sure, I paid $X for a "Battle Cry Tier", but in the Pledge Manager I paid them explicitly $Y for a MAC-II Monster, that they have not delivered in the 4-4.5 years since that money was taken, with no evidence provided of progress since a prototype was displayed in 2013.

Look, to be clear, I get that 'how the law works and what laypeople think is fair' may be two wildly different things. If the law says that they can glance at a piece of paper related to RRT once per 90 days and call that progress, I guess it's a hell of a hill to climb, but it's not remotely following the spirit of Kickstarter with the notion of getting to follow along behind the scenes as they actually work on the project. Aside from the once per year or so 'proof of life' renders or prototypes we get, best we backers know they spend the other 364 days a year doing anything but making tangible progress. Violating the spirit of the Kickstarter agreement/contract/whatever may not be illegal, but it's a gaky thing to do, and they do it with aplomb.

Did they provide everything they agreed to in the contract?

Sort of, they are "working" on wave 2.

Which raises the question of how far that can be taken. And that's not snark, I legit don't know. It loops around to something we've been talking about for literally 4 years now; Kickstarter being *like* many standard consumer interactions but *not being them* is not a feature of the service. It's not investing, nor is it a charitable contribution. It's not a pre-order, but campaigns with complicated pledge managers take on awfully pre-ordery elements. Kickstarter's TOU even has contingencies for 'what happens if a campaign fails, or a particular element can't be completed', and involves steps such as indicating what went wrong, showing good faith effort to make things right, providing a breakdown of how the finances were used, and whatnot. PB continues to claim that it's all good, they're just working really slowly. For years. On something that they managed to knock out in about a year from design to shipping beginning. Such a shame that a company managed to find a process that's tangibly less efficient than the one that actually worked in the first place.

Did they misuse the money?

Kev knows, but won't say without thousands of dollars in legal fees.

True. Maybe one day a backer will hit it big in the lottery and decide that a chunk of change would be worth seeing them sweat bullets in court.

Did they provide the product in the timeframe that they indicated?

Things happened beyond their control

Oh, so lying about time frames holds no bearing? A company can just move their target delivery date back on a Kickstarter for decades or centuries, no harm, no foul? Again, this is said with snark, but that seems to be what you're saying. And that's been part of our discussions going back years; Kickstarter as a platform is toothless and actively incentivized to avoid doing anything but provide said platform and take their cut. When it works, it can be great. But when gak hits the fan, it gets all over the place and nobody on their end is remotely interested in helping clean things up.

Did they provide effective communication as to the cause and reasons of the delay?

Yes, they provided many, many updates

This seems easily debatable. They say 'we're waiting on quotes' a whole bunch, but that's not effective communication. Again, as a layperson, at least. Until Scott gave some behind the scenes chatter in one of his updates, we'd gone quarters without so much as marginal details, let alone effective communications regarding the delays. If a court accepts "we're totes sorry, so disappointed, totally working like demons over here", then I guess we need to wait for a congresscritter's grandson/granddaughter to get ripped off and see some actual movement towards regulating a system that seems to have basically no support in consumer law.

Again, if anybody wants to file in MI. I'll happily guide them thru the process.

No takers?

Like I've said before in small claims you'll have an hour to explain to the judge why Kev wronged you. You will have to do a bunch of back filling about why you went to these lengths. He just has to show quotes and say "working on it".

If you want to go criminal (lol), assuming a AG pushes it, you have to tell 12 people that couldn't escape thise and have maybe 1 or 2 days (8 to 16 hours) to explain all of this.

Nobody on this board has a single good argument for the following questions:
1) Where is the $
2) Why is it taking so long

Discovery will show that. I'm willing to lawyer up to anybody in MI that wants to waste their time.

Kev can just say:
1) Here are fake (or maybe not) books on how the $ was spent and it 100% went to the project
2) China is hard to deal witrh

We simply don't know the truth

Most likely:
1) Kev spent all of the $ keeping PB afloat
2) Who cares

Anybody want to fly to MI (or is already there) and can give me a call and I'll walk them thru the paperwork?

No? Yeah, that is what I thought

This is an unreasonable expectation. People can be frustrated and angry without being willing to commit days or weeks or months or more towards what you believe to be the effective next step. I'm not even an American citizen, so unless people want to spot me a couple grand in transportation and lodgings funding (I'll burn the vacation time myself), I'm sure not going to be interested in spending thousands to maybe recoup half a grand or so in unfilled product.

As is our way, I glanced through your posts in these threads. Seems you tossed a pretty penny into this campaign, and did some of the legwork yourself. Coolio. But why take the aggressive tone here? 'Dudes/Duddettes annoyed at PB's incompetence' doesn't mean that we're eager to drop our day jobs and try to re-enact a season of Suits against an incompetently run gaming company.

Maybe I'm just a bit grouchy today or something, perhaps this is intended simply to show how the deck is stacked in a very real manner against any potential legal proceedings, but.. yeah, we already know that. We're well aware of how bullgak it is that they can post one new 3D prototype a year and say "omg we're totally working on this!" until some arbitrary line is passed (presumably some kind of statute of limitations, a licensing issue precluding it from being possible (in 2021 or whatever), or PB's collapse/Kevin's retirement or death (likely linked) at which point someone yells "nope, nothing left here fetho's!" and flees into the night.

As Tal pointed out, 'need a good argument about where money was spent or why it's taking so long'? Bwah? Golly gee, a company basically feeds us a tablespoon of bullgak once a year and we're in the dark as to what is going on, how shocking!

Yeah, it's not likely to see progress barring a local backer getting frustrated enough to do something about it, and while I'm again ignorant of US law, I'm guessing that the steps leading up to that would be obvious enough that they'd just settle for missing wave 2 items/pro rated remainder on tiers and call it a day, so it'd need to not only be someone local, but someone local and determined to not just get their $100 (or however much) back once it's clear that they're not just making empty threats.

So really all we seem to have determined here is that local backers could probably, if motivated, get some money back, but anyone else (especially those of us outside of the US, or even the immediate vicinity within the US) are SOL.

Tell us something we don't already know...

Evancich has failed to spot the important phrasing in the binding 2012 kickstarter ToS.

Project creators are required to make a good faith effort to provide all promised rewards.

This is not a flowery turn of speech. Look up UCC 1-304 for a definition of good faith in federal law. MIchigan state law contains a similar definition.

To sum up, it means appropriate commercial standards for the relevant industry must be adhered to.

You seriously think PB can argue what they're doing and have done so far is par for the course?

I've got enough behind the scenes experience with other miniatures kickstarters to argue very, very succinctly that it is not.

The only thing saving them is that those who have figured out PB are well into breach of contract would spend more recovering their pledge than their pledge is worth.

Hey Megatron!

Congratulations on the start of your journey.

And it sounds like you have done some pretty awesome stuff.

*re-reads Megatron's post*

Jeez, I think you've lived more in the last couple of years than I have in 37 years on this planet.

Best thing to come from this thread, is seeing someone cast aside their pain and embrace living a life that makes them happy.

 Forar wrote:
*re-reads Megatron's post*

Jeez, I think you've lived more in the last couple of years than I have in 37 years on this planet.

Best thing to come from this thread, is seeing someone cast aside some pain and embrace living a life that makes them happy.

That is 44 years of life. Granted most of that was in the 1990's. I've been pretty boring since then. Depression, and the lack of money, has really put a damper on everything. I've been transitioning for a little over a year. Just recently comfortable with letting people know. Despite the US government stating we aren't protected under Civil Rights Laws. I can now get fired just for being me, and there is nothing I can do about it. Overall, I feel better than I have in decades. This cluster feth aside.

I really wish that I could have truly experienced my life. Now I just get to look at the memories, and go "wow, I lived an amazing life".

So, here is the thing.

PB is innocent until proven guilty. Going by the ToS, PB is making a reasonable effort to provide the stuff. They are doing everything required:
1) sending updates
2) they sent out wave 1
3) they are trying to make wave 2 happen

It is up to us to prove they aren't. None of us have the information to do that.

I'm 100% certain the $ is long gone. But, the only way to prove that is via discovery and I've already typed here how that works and won't in this case unless somebody wants to throw thousands at uncle kev.

There is a very good reason that I haven't done the small claims thing, which is I believe I'd lose.

There is the KS flimsy terms and the reality of being responsible. Unfortunately, Kevin is in his own dreamworld when it comes to that.

Over the course of my life, I've invested in many games of which I won't get a return on - monetarily, emotionally, or playwise. This one just irritates me because there is no closure - no sign of Wave 2 and no admission the project is dead and can't be fulfilled. If we got an either/or, at least we could all move on to what comes next. Until then, i just keep poking my head in to see if Karma/the Law/ or Kevin's concience has caught up with the project.

I don't want to throw more good money after bad, but I wouldn't cry if this fiasco finally tanked PB - they dug their own grave with this one with a company that had shot itself practically in the head a long time ago.

That is 44 years of life

Dudette, go enjoy the next 44 and all the adventures that still await.