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My experience mirrored yours in many ways. Though I felt a bit more strongly about a number of the models. At the same time however, I've got no problem with "heroic scale", I like it and will happily buy well-sculpted, aesthetically pleasing models with those proportions - I'm quite happy with Cadians, thankyouverymuch! - but also take issue with Lego's posit that "true scale" is somehow flawed for gaming.

my input: i liked the look of ME and it was only my own poverty that meant i didn't buy a copy.

 Xca|iber wrote:
Like others, the aesthetic/lack of diversity almost instantly turned me off, despite a great deal of initial excitement and a desire to support the "Dakka Game." What kept me around for a while, however, was the sense that this game was targeting "disaffected 40k players" as someone so eloquently put it, and since I'm in that category my interest coasted along for a fair bit. I got the distinct impression that the game was deliberately generic-looking, so that players could use their other models and/or collections with the MEdge ruleset - in other words, a better, tighter, smaller-scale version of 40k with deeper mechanics and unique factional gameplay.

I got that vibe too. It would be interesting to hear if that was intentional.

Like many others, the aesthetic was the major issue for me. I was all set to jump in on a kickstarter for "Dakka's game," until the pictures started coming out. I compared the pictures to the Infinity figures on my desk, and there was simply no competition. Was that an unfair comparison? Maybe, but the fact is that if you're planning to launch a world-beating sci-fi game, you have to be ready.

Also, the banner ads. Those damn ads were infuriating.

The minis are not for me - neither faction is appealing. That being said, I don't feel disappointed - it's just another wargame I'm not interested in, which works out great, since I don't have time for another.

The terrain sprues seem really fantastic - kind of a mix between the industrial sensibilities of 40k and modular sensibilities of Infinity.

i didn't back it because I have no intention of starting another wargame -modelling and painting my single 40k army takes up all the time I have for the hobby.

To analyze:

+I like the poses of the Maelstrom's Edge minis
+the disparities between the 2 human factions tech vs bio
+the overall feel of the game and it's rules.

-I felt the sculpts were let down by lack of variants of parts. I'm used to building space marines with about 10 distinctly different heads and torso's.
-On a very related note, I felt the sculpts suffered from lack of detail. I would have welcomed a level of detail less cluttered than GW minis, but not quite as unadorned and clean cut as the ones we got.

 Guildsman wrote:
Like many others, the aesthetic was the major issue for me. I was all set to jump in on a kickstarter for "Dakka's game," until the pictures started coming out. I compared the pictures to the Infinity figures on my desk, and there was simply no competition. Was that an unfair comparison? Maybe, but the fact is that if you're planning to launch a world-beating sci-fi game, you have to be ready.

Also, the banner ads. Those damn ads were infuriating.

While I don't think you should expect the same quality of models from a small model skirmish game with models that are £7.50 each to a larger model number game with hard plastic multi pose stuff they are still competing for your money and if you like what is already on the market new than the kick starter offering it makes little sense to back. That's why the Medge thread with people saying but look at how the early edition 40k models were, the future models will improve made no sense. It was obviously a bad comparison because firstly models have gone a long way since first and second edition 40k and too they are asking money for money for the models featured not hypothetical future models. If you bring out new sci fi models you are competing against others in the same space and for me at least there is so much great sci fi human troopers out there already that even the few Medge models I did like didn't compare to stuff I like from other companies.

I think it's more that Medge lacks a hook (or, at least, one that I get). Warhammer 40k has a specific hook, and that's "In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There Is Only War!" And whatever you can say it certainly delivers on the grimness, the darkness, and the grim darkness. It's a heavy metal video, and that's what made Road Warrior: Fury Road awesome, and still makes 40k awesome.

Infinity has a hook, and that's futuristic anime. Battletech has a hook and it's the "Kings of the Battlefield" giant robots. Heavy Gear, aka 'Canadian Battletech' doesn't try to be a better Battletech as its hook, it goes for VOTOMs rather than Robotech, with 'real robots' in the sense of finding a niche for big robots rather than bending the universe around them.

 carlos13th wrote:
While I don't think you should expect the same quality of models from a small model skirmish game with models that are £7.50 each to a larger model number game with hard plastic multi pose stuff...

I think you should be able to get similar levels of sculpting in mass produced units as you get for special characters. The cost of the sculpts may be more in the immediate term, but the payback in value you can charge and volume you are likely to sell should help offset that.

Personally I looked at the models of this game and was not interested; they did not appeal to me at all. Static, chunky poses and detailing. To be honest after that I didn't look at the rules or background.

Maybe it would be easier to get GW to reduce the price of their character models from £15 to £1, which is about what a MEdge model costs. Then you could use the GW models instead of the MEdge ones.

I don't think the problem is the cost so much as the value. Right now I don't think the value I would get out of the £1 model would be worth the cost. I already know that I'm getting good value out of the £15 model. Without any rules available there's no way of knowing if I've under-valued the Medge model though.

Yeah, if Mantic's kickstarter's have taught us anything, it's that cheap minis are not, in and of themselves, all that great.

I think as more and more voices share their thoughts, Buzzsaw's comment about the dog not liking the dog food are accurate: a lot of people just didn't care for the product.

But that's also just for a kickstarter. I'll change my tune if I walk into an FLGS and there's now a MEdge night with 12 guys playing.

Nomeny wrote:
Without any rules available there's no way of knowing if I've under-valued the Medge model though.

The full beta rulebook is now available for those who signed up for it in the Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1269200

Yeah, I heard about that, but that would have required me to support the Medge kickstarter, and without rules available there was no way of knowing, beyond the models and promises made, whether it would be worth the dollar. Although now that I've read that post, the mention of China makes me glad I still have my dollar.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Maybe it would be easier to get GW to reduce the price of their character models from £15 to £1, which is about what a MEdge model costs. Then you could use the GW models instead of the MEdge ones.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. Considering how many people have already stated they would rather buy GW minis at GW prices than MEdge minis at MEdge prices, how does yearning for cheaper GW minis help MEdge out?

That doesn't seem like it would help Medge's retail release at all.


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 darrkespur wrote:

Nomeny wrote:
Without any rules available there's no way of knowing if I've under-valued the Medge model though.

The full beta rulebook is now available for those who signed up for it in the Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1269200

I'm pledged, but I have no time to beta test. Would I be allowed to transfer my pledge privilege to someone who didn't pledge, but would be interested in participating in the test?

What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

Sure, but that's not overly relevant to the critiques.

It's not that people feel the models are under detailed, or at least most aren't. They don't like them.

There is no fairer comment to make about a product than "I don't like it."

And compared to, say, Warlord's multipart plastic historicals, particularly the later kits, which are well under a pound a mini, MEdge stuff is not notably better.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

The most important thing in HIPS manufacturing is volume. Rank-and-file should be cheaper even if the quality is the same because the higher quantities wanted means they will pay off their development and tooling costs faster than one-offs.

And that's the problem with a lack of add-ons. Even if you don't want to throw the gates open for people to buy whatever they want and create a headache for your packers, there should have at least been a few bundles available that were more relevant than just "another one of everything" so you could get some sales volume going for people who don't want more of literally everything in your entire product like. Stick a Hunter, a Scarecrow, a sprue of drones and a Drone Handler in a box and call it an "Epirian Drone Expansion Pack" and you give people who like the drones an excuse to give you more money, even if they don't want more Angels, Karists or rulebooks.

 Guildsman wrote:
Like many others, the aesthetic was the major issue for me. I was all set to jump in on a kickstarter for "Dakka's game," until the pictures started coming out.

Also, the banner ads. Those damn ads were infuriating.

My curiosity about the setting and the game were there but the models just seemed bland.

And OMG the banner ads being everywhere were a huge turn off. I dont think Ive ever been so happy to see a KS end as this one just to make the ads go away.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

Which is additionally compounded in that more expensive model simply not being worth that particular price but instead comparable to something else at a fraction much closer to the one quid.

 AlexHolker wrote:
And that's the problem with a lack of add-ons. .

Which, yet again, is only a 'problem' if a bigger final dollar value is the primary goal.

The MEdge kickstarter was specifically for the starter set. Selling a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't the starter set might have increased the final dollar value, but wouldn't necessarily have made it a more successful project overall, since it would potentially have diluted sales of the actual product that they were trying to launch.

A model is worth what a person will pay for it. Each person decides the utility of the model for themself, based on how much they will enjoy using it, whether that's as a box in the closet, being built and painted, used as a game piece, whatever.

The only use I have for MEdge models is to, well, play MEdge. I don't see that happening for me right now, and I"m sure not going to predict months into the future. Once the rules are final and I can decide if there is value in the game as a game, I'll reappraise.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

I don't think many people have said that, but rather the $1.6 minis are not worth $1.6 to them. And very few of the complaints center on the details compared to the design or aesthetic.


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 AlexHolker wrote:
Stick a Hunter, a Scarecrow, a sprue of drones and a Drone Handler in a box and call it an "Epirian Drone Expansion Pack" and you give people who like the drones an excuse to give you more money,

Please do that. Couldn't hurt to have one for the angels and minnows, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
And that's the problem with a lack of add-ons. .

Which, yet again, is only a 'problem' if a bigger final dollar value is the primary goal.

The MEdge kickstarter was specifically for the starter set. Selling a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't the starter set might have increased the final dollar value, but wouldn't necessarily have made it a more successful project overall, since it would potentially have diluted sales of the actual product that they were trying to launch.

It seems like the low dollar value has created the appearance of ...underperformance... for the product. Isn't there a risk that the perception of failure (wrong though it undoubtedly is) will "potentially have diluted sales of the actual product they were trying to launch"? Look at how backers' perceptions have affected retail sales for games like RRT, Sedition Wars, Through the Breach.

If you are using kickstarter as a way to promote your product and generate buzz, shouldn't you aim for something more positive than "It's okay that it whiffed. I didn't need your money"?

Well I think any perception would be quickly eroded if the product shipped on time. When you combine an underwhelming kickstarter with delays, thats a bigger problem.

The game has a built in word of mouth marketing venue. If the rules are tight and the models ship on time, the bandwagon might fill up.

I hope you are right.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Stick a Hunter, a Scarecrow, a sprue of drones and a Drone Handler in a box and call it an "Epirian Drone Expansion Pack" and you give people who like the drones an excuse to give you more money,

Please do that. Couldn't hurt to have one for the angels and minnows, either.

I'm certainly looking forward to the ability to buy individual units in the future - I would love to run a drone swarm

Ah, who am I kidding - I already have 2 box sets coming, with 1 set of Karists being traded for more Epirians, so I'll be running a swarm already . But maybe not quite swarmy enough! Looking forward to checking out the rules - for those who have already checked them out, are there point values listed for units? I also couldn't tell from that update text if the beta rules were sent to everyone or just those who signed up to beta test (it sounded like the latter, so just checking).

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

If you are using kickstarter as a way to promote your product and generate buzz, shouldn't you aim for something more positive than "It's okay that it whiffed. I didn't need your money"?

That's your take on it, not theirs.

The perception that the kickstarter 'failed' because other kickstarters made more money, or because it didn't offer the specific product that certain people wanted, is not grounded in actual reality. The reality is that the kickstarter exceeded 300% of its funding goal.

Watching the mess that Robotech Wave 2 is, I feel pretty confident about MEdge's approach to KS (of course not all KS have these issues even when offering a lot of add-ons, but I feel MEdge is aiming for the long game).

Honestly I liked the models associated with the Ephian (I think that's how it's spelled?) faction, the infantry were okay, but the drones and mechs were fantastic.

But I didn't back it for two reasons:

1. I figured it'd be too difficult to find someone to play it with.

2. I generally don't do kickstarters.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What I am getting at is that it frankly is ridiculous to expect a £1 model to have the same amount of details and parts as a £15 model.

I don't mean to run down SAS and the ME models unduly, but this is simply not a credible statement: as I pointed out in a prior post, even at the discounted Kickstarter rate ME models are only about equal in price to currently available Dreamforge Games plastic troopers.

You may wish to believe that ME models are technically superior to other models at that price point, but I simply see no way that assesement can be credible. I'm not talking about aesthetics here: if all I want is wads of high-quality plastic sci-fi troopers in 28mm scale, I don't need to go to GW, I go to DFG. Same price, better product.

This is emblematic of one of the problems that ME had: everything seems to be in the context of GW, as if the field of models, modeling and table top gaming begins and ends with GW.

Again, I'm not talking about aesthetics. This is the sprue shown that makes the only heavy infantry in the ME box (the Karist Tempests);


This is a sprue for Dreamforge Games' Valkir Heavy Support infantry (available right now at $18 per 5 man box)


It's entirely reasonable to say that DFG doesn't tickle your fancy: it is not reasonable to imagine that ME's figures are substantially better then other, competing, table top miniatures.