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eciu wrote:
How about that 1 LR could join infrantry squad ? (1 tank to 10 guardsman) Guardsman would give it a constant cover (or vice versa) and tank could overwatch if charged (whole squad) and mayby fire sponsors into its own melee fight ? (with possibility of hitting own men in case of a miss)

Additionally every guardsman unit with vox and who disn't receivr any order this turn could act as a spotter for artillery (all or just one spotter per 1 artillery unit)?

So a free 150 point tank for every 50 point unit of 10 men?

Das Cheeze.

eciu wrote:
How about that 1 LR could join infrantry squad ? (1 tank to 10 guardsman) Guardsman would give it a constant cover (or vice versa) and tank could overwatch if charged (whole squad) and mayby fire sponsors into its own melee fight ? (with possibility of hitting own men in case of a miss)

Seems like a nightmare in terms of rules.

 Selym wrote:

eciu wrote:
How about that 1 LR could join infrantry squad ? (1 tank to 10 guardsman) Guardsman would give it a constant cover (or vice versa) and tank could overwatch if charged (whole squad) and mayby fire sponsors into its own melee fight ? (with possibility of hitting own men in case of a miss)

Additionally every guardsman unit with vox and who disn't receivr any order this turn could act as a spotter for artillery (all or just one spotter per 1 artillery unit)?

So a free 150 point tank for every 50 point unit of 10 men?

Das Cheeze.

No, no! You have to pay for it Its just that squad can move with it and get some more help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

eciu wrote:
How about that 1 LR could join infrantry squad ? (1 tank to 10 guardsman) Guardsman would give it a constant cover (or vice versa) and tank could overwatch if charged (whole squad) and mayby fire sponsors into its own melee fight ? (with possibility of hitting own men in case of a miss)

Seems like a nightmare in terms of rules.

In case of miss roll 4+ to check if own men got hit. If so proceed accordingly.

While the Leman Russ with desant infantry around it is an interesting idea, I think its more suited for a smaller skirmish game.

What we need is some fix across the entire army, and that would need to either give us alot (ALOT) of upgrades for free, or a pure reduction in points. What we will get instead is rules for superheavy baneblades of course.

Anyway, where is all our formations? Shouldnt we have catachans, vostroyans etc?

Free demolitions, free carapace armor etc?

If Heavy Flamers were 5 pts for the pair, or bundled into the base cost of a Leman Russ, they'd be OK - you'd take them because they cost basically nothing.

Hey, guise:

LRBT 140 points

Wargear:
Smoke Launchers
Heavy Bolter Hull
Battlecannon

Special Rules:
Lumbering Behemoth (Ignore shooting penalty for Ordnance)
Fuel Guzzler (Fumes from the engine give a permanent +1 to cover, with a 6+ cover as standard)

So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Vox caster...why do they not have unlimited range? Are they using a fisher price walky talky or something? I have a hard time believing that in the 40th millennium that they do not even have basic/primitive radio equipment.

Why are rough riders just total garbage?

Why are Stormtroopers anti-MEQ hunters when they are supposed to be elite shock troops?

Why is the point cost of basically everything in the codex 20-30% higher than it should be?

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Vox caster...why do they not have unlimited range? Are they using a fisher price walky talky or something? I have a hard time believing that in the 40th millennium that they do not even have basic/primitive radio equipment.

Why are rough riders just total garbage?

Why are Stormtroopers anti-MEQ hunters when they are supposed to be elite shock troops?

Why is the point cost of basically everything in the codex 20-30% higher than it should be?

Long story short:

Space Marines > Guard
Xenos > Guard

Feth Guard.

Have a bad dex.

They tried to make the AM codex a fun and tactical one where you had to use orders to make your units good and have some synergy. It all failed when they opened up the goody chests for the other factions, and made vendettas sick good just to sell them.

But to fix the astra militarum? Wont be easy. I think they should be given lots of equipment, as they are the well equipped IoM after all.

Also doctrines would be nice.

 triplegrim wrote:
They tried to make the AM codex a fun and tactical one where you had to use orders to make your units good and have some synergy. It all failed when they opened up the goody chests for the other factions, and made vendettas sick good just to sell them.

But to fix the astra militarum? Wont be easy. I think they should be given lots of equipment, as they are the well equipped IoM after all.

Also doctrines would be nice.

Ironically cutting the price on most units and all weapons upgrades and bringing back the Lumbering Behemoth special rule would go a long way to fixing our codex.

But of course we might then have a chance to start competing with the Space Marines and we cant have that can we?

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Tbh seeing the current Guard dex was made with 7th in mind, I bet we'll be the very last faction to receive a 7th edition codex... if we get one at all.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Tbh seeing the current Guard dex was made with 7th in mind, I bet we'll be the very last faction to receive a 7th edition codex... if we get one at all.

Ahahahahahaha...... Wait, you where joking right?
This heap of trash is most certainly not a 7th level codex. It is just plain bad. Hell, it feels almost like a nerf from the previous one.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Tbh seeing the current Guard dex was made with 7th in mind, I bet we'll be the very last faction to receive a 7th edition codex... if we get one at all.

If it were made with 7th in mind, that's news to me, as it's got no aspects of any 7E book, and seems identical in formatting and offerings to all other 6E books, with balance changes largely built around 5E issues

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Vox caster...why do they not have unlimited range? Are they using a fisher price walky talky or something? I have a hard time believing that in the 40th millennium that they do not even have basic/primitive radio equipment.

Why are rough riders just total garbage?

Why are Stormtroopers anti-MEQ hunters when they are supposed to be elite shock troops?

Why is the point cost of basically everything in the codex 20-30% higher than it should be?

I think giving everyone the entire order tree, and having CCS auto pass and PCS have to roll for it would be strong, as you would be getting much more access to the good orders.

Formations will make it in as a way to differentiate regiments, almost certainly.

I see a send in the next wave mechanic to be inevitable since it is thematic, powerful, and requires you to buy more models. I wouldn't be suprised if the super formation even allowed vehicles to respawn.

 Silverthorne wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Vox caster...why do they not have unlimited range? Are they using a fisher price walky talky or something? I have a hard time believing that in the 40th millennium that they do not even have basic/primitive radio equipment.

Why are rough riders just total garbage?

Why are Stormtroopers anti-MEQ hunters when they are supposed to be elite shock troops?

Why is the point cost of basically everything in the codex 20-30% higher than it should be?

I think giving everyone the entire order tree, and having CCS auto pass and PCS have to roll for it would be strong, as you would be getting much more access to the good orders.

Formations will make it in as a way to differentiate regiments, almost certainly.

I see a send in the next wave mechanic to be inevitable since it is thematic, powerful, and requires you to buy more models. I wouldn't be suprised if the super formation even allowed vehicles to respawn.

You see my one objection to having to roll for orders is that no other army out there has to roll to get its own unique abilities off.
But we do.
All the damn time.
Why?
Why should the Guard players be the only ones having to rely upon chance to get their special abilities and strengths off?

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed? Alot of what is being discussed here are things IG players have been asking for....for years. Its kind of breaks my heart because there is so many passion for this army in the community & the feedback we give is just ignored codex release after codex release. Even the most simply things that are common sense.

Vox caster...why do they not have unlimited range? Are they using a fisher price walky talky or something? I have a hard time believing that in the 40th millennium that they do not even have basic/primitive radio equipment.

Why are rough riders just total garbage?

Why are Stormtroopers anti-MEQ hunters when they are supposed to be elite shock troops?

Why is the point cost of basically everything in the codex 20-30% higher than it should be?

I think giving everyone the entire order tree, and having CCS auto pass and PCS have to roll for it would be strong, as you would be getting much more access to the good orders.

Formations will make it in as a way to differentiate regiments, almost certainly.

I see a send in the next wave mechanic to be inevitable since it is thematic, powerful, and requires you to buy more models. I wouldn't be suprised if the super formation even allowed vehicles to respawn.

You see my one objection to having to roll for orders is that no other army out there has to roll to get its own unique abilities off.
But we do.
All the damn time.
Why?
Why should the Guard players be the only ones having to rely upon chance to get their special abilities and strengths off?

I'd like to point out psyker-based armies.

But the reason we need to roll, is because the IG are all incompetent buffoons, and random = fun.

We've just not been Forging The Narrative hard enough.

Not entirely. For example, chaos has to roll to get their boons, and that can be a fiasco. Same with the rein of chaos table. Taus thing is the markerlight, which of course must roll to hit. Orks have to contend with the mob rule. I get your meaning but I think having it be automatic for the captain eliminates your complaint, since there is no more chance. It's automatic. But now, PCS can also contribute, although it isn't automatic

Cadian shock troopers. Trained from birth to be a soldier. Only hits 50% of the time and has a roughly 30% chance of failing to understand their orders.

I think this whole "random everything" thing was a 6E phase that GW went through, where they made a "managerial decision" that as this game is based on a D6, then Random = Fun.

They replaced that with 7E's Buy-Me-Now formation bonuses, and simplifications to over complicated in-codex things.

Commissar Benny wrote:
So with the next codex release rumored to come out after Tau & possibly Chaos dex's what is the likelihood that any of these concerns will actually be addressed?

Any? As in 1 (or more)? Given that this thread has addressed the entirety of the IG Codex, with multiple fixes for each of the problem units, I think it is safe to assume that GW will at least one of the problem areas actually will be addressed when GW finally gets around to reworking IG.

The tricky bit is... which one(s)?

I think GW will address overall points cost, and we might see some of the chronically overpriced items and/or units drop by 20-30%, although I wouldn't necessarily expect GW to cut prices across the board. Because that isn't how GW does things. But a substantial points reduction would be easy, and GW friendly, simply because lower points means you buy and field substantially more models in a given game at the same (larger) points value. I'd expect the equivalent of a 5-10% points reduction overall, 15-20% if you include the inevitable formation bonus(es).

I don't think GW will address Rough Riders, because GW doesn't have a current model in plastic, so there's no sales incentive to fix it.

GW will address Storms by making them exclusive to the Stormie Codex (but easy Allies, because IoM).

Vox? I doubt GW does anything with it, in the same way that the likely don't do much with Standards.

And the $140+ USD Baneblade 8-in-1 is a sure thing. It's far too profitable for GW to make it Apocalypse-only.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
Tbh seeing the current Guard dex was made with 7th in mind,

The cureent Codex was made for 6E, not 7E.

It may have released after the 7E Rules, but that's only because GW pushed the clock on the 7E rules to make space for the WFB redo.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

It may have released after the 7E Rules, but that's only because GW pushed the clock on the 7E rules to make space for the WFB redo.

Wait a sec. It /was/ released after the advent of 7E.

Okay, now I'm pretty damn certain we won't be getting a new codex this edition.

 Selym wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

It may have released after the 7E Rules, but that's only because GW pushed the clock on the 7E rules to make space for the WFB redo.

Wait a sec. It /was/ released after the advent of 7E.

Okay, now I'm pretty damn certain we won't be getting a new codex this edition.

Damn you, dont crush my hopes and dreams

No seriously though, the only thing keeping me playing is the hope that someday soon Gdubs will release a new Imperial Guard codex on par with the top tier ones.

Yes, that's what I said - the current Codex was released after 7E was released. But that doesn't change how the Codex was designed for 6E, and never updated for 7E.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

It may have released after the 7E Rules, but that's only because GW pushed the clock on the 7E rules to make space for the WFB redo.

Wait a sec. It /was/ released after the advent of 7E.

Okay, now I'm pretty damn certain we won't be getting a new codex this edition.

Damn you, dont crush my hopes and dreams

No seriously though, the only thing keeping me playing is the hope that someday soon Gdubs will release a new Imperial Guard codex on par with the top tier ones.

I have two bets.

1) GW says to itself "well, we've released a 7E codex for the IG already, so they can wait 'till 8E" (Probably more profitable that way)

2) GW releases another 7E codex, but it is a quickly-written poorly-thought-out failure of a book (and then we have to live out the last of 7E, and good part of 8E with another crap dex)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yes, that's what I said - the current Codex was released after 7E was released. But that doesn't change how the Codex was designed for 6E, and never updated for 7E.

I don't deny it was designed for 6E, but the release schedule is something GW is very belligerent about.

In 6th it may have been an okay codex. Back then without all this Decurion level gak it would not have been a bad one.

But this is not 6th. It is 7th and the Imperial Guard codex might as well be titled "Codex Marine Fodder"

I'm no time-ologist or anything, but IG was release April 2014, and 40k 7th was released May 2014.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm somewhere in the vicinity of 100% certain April comes before May.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Cadian shock troopers. Trained from birth to be a soldier. Only hits 50% of the time and has a roughly 30% chance of failing to understand their orders.

That's only 125,000 times more accurate than the actual U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

As for orders, turns out that war is loud, scary, and confusing. The radio man has to hear the command over the din of war, the sergeant has to hear the radio man over the gun fire, and the squad has to hear the sergeant. It's not a matter of them failing 30% of the time. The issue is do they receive and act on the order in a timely way, are they under threat from another target, etc.

 master of ordinance wrote:
In 6th it may have been an okay codex. Back then without all this Decurion level gak it would not have been a bad one.

But this is not 6th. It is 7th and the Imperial Guard codex might as well be titled "Codex Marine Fodder"

IG is a very tough fight for SW and BA.

 TheSilo wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Cadian shock troopers. Trained from birth to be a soldier. Only hits 50% of the time and has a roughly 30% chance of failing to understand their orders.

That's only 125,000 times more accurate than the actual U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

As for orders, turns out that war is loud, scary, and confusing. The radio man has to hear the command over the din of war, the sergeant has to hear the radio man over the gun fire, and the squad has to hear the sergeant. It's not a matter of them failing 30% of the time. The issue is do they receive and act on the order in a timely way, are they under threat from another target, etc.

Surely the tabletop is not a literal translation of the events playing out?

While that's a funny statistic, it's mostly meaningless. Most engagements occur at an average distance of 300+m. Entire squads of Platoons are equipped with the sole purpose of suppressive fire with M240's, which fire thousands of rounds combined per minute. Then add in that 95% of all U.S. Army infantry qualify with an M16 and 20% of them qualify expert (36/40) hits.

Still funny though.

Here are my suggestions for how to change rough riders.

Rough Riders…..55
Rough Rider Ws-4, Bs-4, S-3, T-3, W-1, I-3, A-1, Ld-7, Sv-5+
Rough Rider Sergeant Ws-4, Bs-4, S-3, T-3, W-1, I-3, A-2, Ld-8, Sv-5+
Unit Type: Calvary. Rough Rider Sergeant is Cavalry (character).

Unit Composition: 4 rough riders, 1 Rough Rider sergeant.

Wargear: Flak armor, Laspistol, Close combat weapon, Hunting lance, Frag grenades, Krak grenades.

Special Rules:
Cavalry charge: when charging the unit gains +2 to its initiative and +2 to its strength for the first round of combat. This bonus applies in addition to those given by hunting lances. The bonus to initiative cannot be applied to weapons that have the unwieldy special rule.
Here comes the Calvary: The unit may charge the same turn it comes in from reserves.
Scout
Outflank
Relentless

Options:
May include up to five additional Rough Riders…..11/model
The entire squad may replace its hunting lances with power swords…..20
The Rough Rider sergeant may take melta bombs….5
Up to two rough riders may replace their hunting lance with one item from the special weapons list.