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 Peregrine wrote:

 raiden wrote:
On the topic, any setting vs an entirely allied 40k setting is fethed. -any-

Not really. A single Culture civilian ship could slaughter the entire 40k setting if it didn't get bored first and move on to something more challenging. And the Culture isn't even at the top of the scifi power scale.

Necrons. They literally shoot dead stars as ammo, and tell our physics to go feth itself.

 raiden wrote:
Necrons. They literally shoot dead stars as ammo, and tell our physics to go feth itself.

And yet they lose to the other 40k factions. If Necrons were even close to the level of the Culture then a single Necron ship would have already slaughtered the entire Imperium.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And 40k doesn't, incidentally, oh and as for ceramite being heat resistant, meet hotshot lasguns and anything melta.

And 35 miles Vindicare? What the hell, there's no way you can shoot someone 35 miles away with a direct hit, you'll need indirect fire.

Over exaggeration. But the fact is that I highly doubt a jedi could sense anything a mile away.

 Peregrine wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Necrons. They literally shoot dead stars as ammo, and tell our physics to go feth itself.

And yet they lose to the other 40k factions. If Necrons were even close to the level of the Culture then a single Necron ship would have already slaughtered the entire Imperium.

Except they don't lose. As you said, they don't care enough to do it. It would bore them.

 raiden wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 raiden wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
That depends.

Jedi are still, physically, just normal human(oids). Some can augment their physical capabilities with the Force, but its always been relatively limited.

Assassins on the other hand are super-human in their reflexes.

Given that Jedi are regularly trounced by non-force sensitive individuals who themselves are just above average in terms of physical abilities I think most Jedi and Sith would get shredded by assassins.

Um. Reflexes that are able to reliably deflect blaster shots?

No, but fast enough to where you'll almost never get shot at in the first place.

Jedi reflection is also not totally reliable. They can't reflect every bolt, and they die to blaster fire all the time.

Only time I've seen them die to blaster fire was from overwhelming amounts. The ability to deflect (and regularly return to sender) blaster fire is an achievement most -normal- humans would never be able to do. Not to mention against trained shooters.

The point is, I'd wager assassins reflexes aren't better than a regular Jedi, much less a master. And Jedi can sense danger..

There's also 0 evidence the anti psyker assassin would effect Jedi in any way

Assassins are able to dodge supersonic bullets. Not because they have precog or anything, but because they're actually fast enough to dodge bullets.

They tear Jedi a new one in any engagement, especially the Eversors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 raiden wrote:
On the topic, any setting vs an entirely allied 40k setting is fethed. -any-

Not really. A single Culture civilian ship could slaughter the entire 40k setting if it didn't get bored first and move on to something more challenging. And the Culture isn't even at the top of the scifi power scale.

Necrons. They literally shoot dead stars as ammo, and tell our physics to go feth itself.

40K Space Battles take place over several minutes at least, several hours or days at most.

Culture ship-to-ship warfare lasts for a fraction of a second. It literally is so fast that it takes god-computers so large that their CPU's stretch into multiple dimensions to even comprehend them. To Humans it looks like they ended just as they began. Their warfare operates by them flinging black holes at a fraction of C or teleporting them right into the enemy. Their ships can also erase an entire flotilla of NECRON ships by braking. Culture ships use something called the "grid" for FTL travel, a dimension tied to the Big Bang that is made of infinite energy. By stopping abruptly, they rip a hole in space that dumps ungodly amounts of energy into realspace that would simply erase a Necron armada with little fuss, even planets or stars would get wiped.


To put into perspective how powerful the Culture is, the Culture Minds, their god-computers, are so advanced, so fast, and so massive that they would be effectively immune to all Chaos Corruption as they would be able to destroy parts of their minds touched by Scrap-Code faster than Scrap Code is physically capable of spreading. Culture Minds are so powerful that they could contain and manage Chaos Corruption, allowing their citizens to worship and receive Chaos Boons without the slaughter, taint, or daemonic invasions.

They couldn't kill the Chaos Gods, but they are fully capable of muzzling their presence in the Materium. Even the ability of Daemons to possess and blow up stars wouldn't impress Culture Minds much.

 raiden wrote:
Except they don't lose. As you said, they don't care enough to do it. It would bore them.

Necrons absolutely lose. They win more than they lose and are only defeated with heavy losses, but they do lose sometimes. And when they win they still have to fight a conventional battle, they don't just press a button and instantly annihilate the entire Imperial force. They're clearly superior to the Imperium (individually at least) but not by the kind of obscene margin that the Culture and similar high-end civilizations have. You could literally assemble the Imperium's entire fleet in one place and a Culture warship would probably kill the whole thing in less than a second. Necron ships don't do that.

 Peregrine wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Except they don't lose. As you said, they don't care enough to do it. It would bore them.

Necrons absolutely lose. They win more than they lose and are only defeated with heavy losses, but they do lose sometimes. And when they win they still have to fight a conventional battle, they don't just press a button and instantly annihilate the entire Imperial force. They're clearly superior to the Imperium (individually at least) but not by the kind of obscene margin that the Culture and similar high-end civilizations have. You could literally assemble the Imperium's entire fleet in one place and a Culture warship would probably kill the whole thing in less than a second. Necron ships don't do that.

If anything the Imperium would splinter upon contact with the Culture, with large chunks of the Adeptus Mechanicus flocking to the Culture by mistaking the Culture Minds for the Omnissiah in shear scope. The Culture would likely end up dismantling much of the 40K galaxy, with many races such as Tau, Eldar, and Humans being assimilated into their culture (har har) while factions like the Necrons and Orks are completely obliterated. Unlike the Eldar, the Culture could maintain their hedonistic society without having to worry about being nommed by Slaanesh thanks to Minds purging taint as it appears on a per-second basis.

Necrons never lose, they win, or decide to leave.

You do realize that dead stars are basically black holes right?

The book literally states that they fire this at speeds of a fraction under the speed of light, and their ships can not only move at that same speed in real space, they can do it from a "still" position, and even reverse direction in a second. They also "fade" when shot at, having most enemy fire -pass through them- as if they weren't there, and any fire that hits (coming form an entire imperium fleet) leave scratches and dents at the most

Which are repaired quickly by the metal itself.

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything the Imperium would splinter upon contact with the Culture, with large chunks of the Adeptus Mechanicus flocking to the Culture by mistaking the Culture Minds for the Omnissiah in shear scope. The Culture would likely end up dismantling much of the 40K galaxy, with many races such as Tau, Eldar, and Humans being assimilated into their culture (har har) while factions like the Necrons and Orks are completely obliterated. Unlike the Eldar, the Culture could maintain their hedonistic society without having to worry about being nommed by Slaanesh thanks to Minds purging taint as it appears on a per-second basis.

True, and that's a far more interesting story than the "one ship slaughters everything in 40k" outcome that the Culture is capable of. A Special Circumstances operation to fix the 40k universe would be interesting to see.

(Of course in my personal fanfiction, which is just as canon as anything else in 40k, the Tau ethereals were a Special Circumstances intervention to manipulate the Tau into eventually fixing 40k. So the real answer to the OP is that Star Wars loses because once they threaten the Tau the Culture steps in to protect their investment.)

 raiden wrote:
Necrons never lose, they win, or decide to leave.

You do realize that dead stars are basically black holes right?

The book literally states that they fire this at speeds of a fraction under the speed of light, and their ships can not only move at that same speed in real space, they can do it from a "still" position, and even reverse direction in a second. They also "fade" when shot at, having most enemy fire -pass through them- as if they weren't there, and any fire that hits (coming form an entire imperium fleet) leave scratches and dents at the most

Which are repaired quickly by the metal itself.

This is where I pull out another quote of mine.

"You can't beat the Culture it is so powerful that even DBZ would lose to it."

This is one of those fights you could never win.

The Culture are incredibly powerful and I don't even know how they were brought up as they aren't even apart of any of these two universes though.

Also, we have cannon evidence of necron lords wearing cloaks of patched TIME as defense.

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Lightsabers wouldn't work on physical objects like bullets. Even if you vaporize a bullet, there's now a several thousand degree cloud of vapor traveling at the same speed. A Jedi blocking a hail of bullets, let alone bolters, would just end up covered in third degree burns, screaming as parts of his skin melt off and his robe fuses to his flesh.

".. You can't beat the Drej, they're pure energy! "

 raiden wrote:
Necrons never lose, they win, or decide to leave.

Against 40k factions, maybe. Against the Culture (or other high-end civilizations) they lose, even if it means obliterating every Necron planet to prevent them from respawning.

The book literally states that they fire this at speeds of a fraction under the speed of light, and their ships can not only move at that same speed in real space, they can do it from a "still" position, and even reverse direction in a second. They also "fade" when shot at, having most enemy fire -pass through them- as if they weren't there, and any fire that hits (coming form an entire imperium fleet) leave scratches and dents at the most

And yet the Imperium's ships can hit Necron ships and can destroy them. Contrast this with Culture warships that fight battles in fractions of a second at high FTL speeds and consider "planet-destroying firepower" a lol-worthy estimate of their capabilities.

Also I just remembered the Hrud exist.


The Hrud kill everything.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The Culture are incredibly powerful and I don't even know how they were brought up as they aren't even apart of any of these two universes though.

Actually they are part of 40k now. To quote myself:

Of course in my personal fanfiction, which is just as canon as anything else in 40k, the Tau ethereals were a Special Circumstances intervention to manipulate the Tau into eventually fixing 40k. So the real answer to the OP is that Star Wars loses because once they threaten the Tau the Culture steps in to protect their investment.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
The Culture are incredibly powerful and I don't even know how they were brought up as they aren't even apart of any of these two universes though.

Actually they are part of 40k now. To quote myself:

Of course in my personal fanfiction, which is just as canon as anything else in 40k, the Tau ethereals were a Special Circumstances intervention to manipulate the Tau into eventually fixing 40k. So the real answer to the OP is that Star Wars loses because once they threaten the Tau the Culture steps in to protect their investment.

Okay stop it you have only entered that into your own no please go away you aren't adding anything your just trying to get this thread closed.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Okay stop it you have only entered that into your own no please go away you aren't adding anything your just trying to get this thread closed.

Why should I stop it? According to GW my fanfiction is just as canon (or not canon) as anything else in 40k. Why should we follow your policies about what is and isn't canon instead of GW's?

The Hrud though would prove to be a massive problem for Star Wars if they were bloodlusted. They're teleporting entropic aliens who may be tied to the warp, can kill anything by commanding entropy itself. Enough Hrud can even kill a planet by aging the core until it rots and the planet is destroyed.

Star Wars has no way to counter bloodlusted wandering swarms of the Xenos, who just show up on your world, burrow, and demolish it. With the more recent fluff on them, I'm not even certain you can truly kill them. They may be daemonic in nature regarding their entropic powers.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The Hrud though would prove to be a massive problem for Star Wars if they were bloodlusted. They're teleporting entropic aliens who may be tied to the warp, can kill anything by commanding entropy itself. Enough Hrud can even kill a planet by aging the core until it rots and the planet is destroyed.

Star Wars has no way to counter bloodlusted wandering swarms of the Xenos, who just show up on your world, burrow, and demolish it. With the more recent fluff on them, I'm not even certain you can truly kill them. They may be daemonic in nature regarding their entropic powers.

Or they are from the ghoul stars

Since the original point of the "my fanfiction is canon" argument seems to have been forgotten, I'll post it again:

The biggest problem in analyzing 40k is deciding what sources to use. Currently it's a mess of contradictory sources and GW's policy is "canon is a stupid question, we're not going to tell you how to play with your toys". So before you can answer questions like "who wins in 40k vs. Star Wars" you have to decide which version of 40k you're talking about. And if you want any credibility you have to do it in a way that isn't just "40k is really awesome" fanboyism. So far, Asherian Command, you haven't done this at all.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Okay stop it you have only entered that into your own no please go away you aren't adding anything your just trying to get this thread closed.

Why should I stop it? According to GW my fanfiction is just as canon (or not canon) as anything else in 40k. Why should we follow your policies about what is and isn't canon instead of GW's?

And in my fan fiction your culture ship went back in time (they had help from the necrons) and murdered your great great great grandparents before you were born and then decided to off themselves so all of this trolling can end.

Now, with that said, I do agree with the main point of it, which seems to be that without a reasonable set of guidelines/acceptable canon that all can work withon, and avoiding hyperbole and rediculous exaggerations/assumptions, any discussion is fairly pointless...well more so than any x vs y discussion is in the first place.

Although even if you came up with something fairly simple like only material from SW movies and only material from current 40k codexes, you are not going to get "weapon A produces X amount of energy which will vaporize Y inches of material B".

Asherian Command wrote:

Yes and the fact is that Assassins have killed Space Marines in droves Take the Age of Apostasy where the Assassins of the Imperium went rouge, they killed every member of the Highlords of Terra, and 10 different chapters were deployed against the Assassins and only one Astartes was able to get through and kill the Usurper.

That was the Beheading, the Age of Apostasy was four thousand years later and had nothing to do with the Assassins, who stayed well clear of the whole mess because they were scared of the Brides of the Emperor.

The Callidius Assassins being famous for this. As some have even been able to impersonate Genestealers... GENESTEALERS. You can keep yelling on about how the 40k universe is ww2. But there is quite a bit of impressive tech in the Assassin's of the Imperium who take down empires on a regular basis.

That Callidus needed surgery, and was told she'd never be able to turn into anything else ever again. And she only impersonated a hybrid.

]
209.M38 - Callidus Assassin Militzia Scarvelli is able to impersonate a Gretchin, infiltrate the Ork mob of Big Mek Oilguzla, and assassinate him[11]
243.M39 - Dark Eldar pirate pilot Skyknife is killed by the Vindicare Assassin Dejedris Garamach after the sniper waited in position for six years[11]
353.M41 - The Culexus Assassin known as the Revoker kills a group of Rogue Psykers known as The Gestalt[11]
ca. 809.M41 - A Vindicare Assassin fails to neutralize Cardinal-Astral Xaphan on Vraks Prime, precipitating several days of civil disorder and ultimately the Siege of Vraks.[12]
886.M41 - An Eversor Assassin massacres the Tech-Priests of the lubricant-worshiping Lubricae Cult[11]

These are the famous ones. Each one is insane and skillful, always successful, Except if you are a primarch or you live in the eye of terror that is. (Which are impossible to get or kill without the act of god)

 Asherian Command wrote:

The Culture are incredibly powerful and I don't even know how they were brought up as they aren't even apart of any of these two universes though.

They were brought in response to a few not so well thought out statements to the effect of "the 40k universe would trash any other sci-fi universe"

 Wyzilla wrote:
The Hrud though would prove to be a massive problem for Star Wars if they were bloodlusted. They're teleporting entropic aliens who may be tied to the warp, can kill anything by commanding entropy itself. Enough Hrud can even kill a planet by aging the core until it rots and the planet is destroyed.

Star Wars has no way to counter bloodlusted wandering swarms of the Xenos, who just show up on your world, burrow, and demolish it. With the more recent fluff on them, I'm not even certain you can truly kill them. They may be daemonic in nature regarding their entropic powers.

I think there are canon examples of guard regiments defeating the Hrud, but I'm not sure. Where does their fluff cone from?

The Hrud fluff only really appeared in Xenology, AFAIK, until a handful of them made an appearance at the end of the Forge of Mars trilogy and basically nearly caused the end of the galaxy by exiting the building too quickly.

 raiden wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Necrons. They literally shoot dead stars as ammo, and tell our physics to go feth itself.

And yet they lose to the other 40k factions. If Necrons were even close to the level of the Culture then a single Necron ship would have already slaughtered the entire Imperium.

Except they don't lose. As you said, they don't care enough to do it. It would bore them.

Even more than Tau, Necrons seem to win the overwhelming majority of the encounters they have with IoM. Off the top of my head, the DoW expansions Dark Crusade and Soulstorm are the only times the IoM managed to annihilate significant necron forces

Yes usually the IoM's victories actually means that they lost a significant amount of forces and cost them just as much as the enemy.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Yes usually the IoM's victories actually means that they lost a significant amount of forces and cost them just as much as the enemy.

What victories? Other than the two THQ games, I've never read any fluff where the necrons actually -lost-, unless it was a small reference to a tomb world gone mad and taken over by an AI.

Are those games canon?