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Orks must really be winning, my posts are getting flagged by the frail skinned necrons. Aaaw how cute.

I don't really think this is the best way to approach the debate.

People keep using the argument that a dead ork just spawns more orks and dead necrons are dead necrons. That just isn't true.

For one, gauss weaponry deconstructs matter on an atomic level. This would include the ork spores, so a lot of them would be destroyed before being able to develop. Secondly, a down Necron certainly isn't a dead Necron. When a Necron is damaged beyond the power of his Reanimation protocol, he gets teleported to the nearest tomb world and is repaired there. So in theory, Necron numbers are almost as infinite as Orks.


On top of that, Necrons needn't face Orks in battle to defeat them. They have a machine that projects all the stars in the galaxy in a hologram. If they snuff out the little light on the hologram, the physical star goes supernova and deep-fries anything in a 30 to 7.500 lightyear radius depending on the star. So a single Necron lord could wave his arm through that hologram and BOOM. Even a Googol orks wouldn't survive that because when everywhere explodes (save some necron tomb worlds), nowhere's safe. And of course any and all spores are burned along with them.

Gw has shown fluff wise orks would win. That fluff has been quoted multiple times. Please leave your false claims at tha dakka door and enjoy your err... Necron loving? Stay. Stupid scraps of worthless junk metal. An ork getting a hold of one MIGHT just actually make it good. Maybe. It's a long shot though.

The fluff isn't reliable, its said that the IG could defeat any enemy if they were to put all their might into it, therefore, they can beat the Necrons, Nids, Daemons and Orks, but only if they face them separately.

Which contradicts other things, so don'T take it at face value.

And by the way, the Necrons are 2nd least favorite faction, I just hate the orks a lot more.

I expected Space Marines to be at your bottom, Bob.

Don't mind the SM, don't like the mor erecent thread of mqaking them god-like is all.

I mean, I'd go and argue in most SM thread, I usually avoid the Ork stuff, can't stand it.

DaPino wrote:

On top of that, Necrons needn't face Orks in battle to defeat them. They have a machine that projects all the stars in the galaxy in a hologram. If they snuff out the little light on the hologram, the physical star goes supernova and deep-fries anything in a 30 to 7.500 lightyear radius depending on the star. So a single Necron lord could wave his arm through that hologram and BOOM. Even a Googol orks wouldn't survive that because when everywhere explodes (save some necron tomb worlds), nowhere's safe. And of course any and all spores are burned along with them.

That machine has not been elaborated on. How it actually works is a mystery. All we know is that if one of the lights is snuffed out then the corresponding star goes supernova millennia before its natural time. It could take thousands or even millions of years for the reaction to actually occur. It could require a ship to be dispatched to destroy the star; a ship which could be intercepted. Besides that, what evidence is there that any Necron tomb worlds would survive?

Lots of evidence they would probably be fine.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

DaPino wrote:

On top of that, Necrons needn't face Orks in battle to defeat them. They have a machine that projects all the stars in the galaxy in a hologram. If they snuff out the little light on the hologram, the physical star goes supernova and deep-fries anything in a 30 to 7.500 lightyear radius depending on the star. So a single Necron lord could wave his arm through that hologram and BOOM. Even a Googol orks wouldn't survive that because when everywhere explodes (save some necron tomb worlds), nowhere's safe. And of course any and all spores are burned along with them.

That machine has not been elaborated on. How it actually works is a mystery. All we know is that if one of the lights is snuffed out then the corresponding star goes supernova millennia before its natural time. It could take thousands or even millions of years for the reaction to actually occur. It could require a ship to be dispatched to destroy the star; a ship which could be intercepted. Besides that, what evidence is there that any Necron tomb worlds would survive?

They're walking calculators. It would be quite easy for them to figure out what stars to explode and which they should leave alone.

Even if snuffing the light out meant "starting up the star going supernova", it'd only take roughly 100 seconds from start to finish, because that's how long it takes for a star to go supernova once conditions are met. If it were just "increasing the speed at which the star hoes supernova", it would've said so because there's no reason to use the wording as it's currently printed to imply anything but it going supernova on short term.

And then you're just making wild assumptions. The info on the machine says "Snuff out one of these lights and its physical counterpart in the real galaxy will go supernova long millennia before its destined timSnuff out one of these lights and its physical counterpart in the real galaxy will go supernova long millennia before its destined time". So the thingy about the ship is just wild speculation on your part. It says that snuff out light= super nova, no clauses.

Orks Win.

DaPino wrote:

They're walking calculators. It would be quite easy for them to figure out what stars to explode and which they should leave alone.

Even if snuffing the light out meant "starting up the star going supernova", it'd only take roughly 100 seconds from start to finish, because that's how long it takes for a star to go supernova once conditions are met. If it were just "increasing the speed at which the star hoes supernova", it would've said so because there's no reason to use the wording as it's currently printed to imply anything but it going supernova on short term.

And then you're just making wild assumptions. The info on the machine says "Snuff out one of these lights and its physical counterpart in the real galaxy will go supernova long millennia before its destined timSnuff out one of these lights and its physical counterpart in the real galaxy will go supernova long millennia before its destined time". So the thingy about the ship is just wild speculation on your part. It says that snuff out light= super nova, no clauses.

Fair point.

Short term for a star, or for Necrons, would be very different than short term for us.

We're all making assumptions here. The wording is precise enough for us not too.The Necrons have no Psychic powers. Everything they do is based on the Materium. At the very least a signal has to reach the star somehow.

My point is that the Celestial Orrery, despite its power, has almost no information given about it. How it works, how quickly it works, what consequences its misuse actually has. All we know is that it turns stars supernova millennia before their time, using it can have negative consequences and that its caretakers are very careful of how they use it. I do not feel like it has a valid place in a discussion like this because there are far too many unknowns.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I expected Space Marines to be at your bottom, Bob.

Keep it clean guys, keep it clean.

The C'tan and the Necron already went on a star killing spree in the distant past during their war against the Old Ones. Snuffing out stars left and right during a period of time only such long lived creatures can fathom. Look at how many billions and billions of stars still remained. Apparantly it takes an appreciable amount of time and effort to snuff out all the stars because they never managed to scratch more then the surface before failing to complete the attempt. Why wasn't this celestial thingie able to do it in a flash in the past? What makes it capable of doing it in the flash today (well 100 secs) when it couldn't previously? Why is there soo many stars left over from an actual attempt before? Why are there still stars now why aren't they blowing them all up as we speak?

Maybe there aren't. Maybe the stars in the 'current' galaxy are only a pathetic scraps next to their numbers at the War in Heaven.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
The C'tan and the Necron already went on a star killing spree in the distant past during their war against the Old Ones. Snuffing out stars left and right during a period of time only such long lived creatures can fathom. Look at how many billions and billions of stars still remained. Apparantly it takes an appreciable amount of time and effort to snuff out all the stars because they never managed to scratch more then the surface before failing to complete the attempt. Why wasn't this celestial thingie able to do it in a flash in the past? What makes it capable of doing it in the flash today (well 100 secs) when it couldn't previously? Why is there soo many stars left over from an actual attempt before? Why are there still stars now why aren't they blowing them all up as we speak?

Failing the attempt? They weren't trying to destroy the galaxy. They removed those stars that were tactically-expedient to do so against their chosen foes. They obviously weren't detonating the stars local to Dynastic Crownworlds and the like.

The Celestial Orrery, from what we're told, *is* capable, and always has been capable, of destroying stars in very short order. Of course, when you remove a star from the galactic equation, you're mucking about with the balance of gravity across the entire expanse of space. This can have Unforeseen Consequences, which is why the Necrons only use this device very sparingly.

Besides, with the time-traveling powers of Orikan the Diviner, there's no need to snuff stars, just go back in time and murder people's great-grandparents. Then they're never born and cease to be a threat in your usual time-line.

 Ashiraya wrote:
So could I.

They are nice and all, but ultimately just a meme machine.

The Imperium and even Chaos are no less meme machines.

Hell, all of 40k is pretty good at meme generation come to think of it.

DaPino wrote:
People keep using the argument that a dead ork just spawns more orks and dead necrons are dead necrons. That just isn't true.

For one, gauss weaponry deconstructs matter on an atomic level. This would include the ork spores, so a lot of them would be destroyed before being able to develop. Secondly, a down Necron certainly isn't a dead Necron. When a Necron is damaged beyond the power of his Reanimation protocol, he gets teleported to the nearest tomb world and is repaired there. So in theory, Necron numbers are almost as infinite as Orks.


On top of that, Necrons needn't face Orks in battle to defeat them. They have a machine that projects all the stars in the galaxy in a hologram. If they snuff out the little light on the hologram, the physical star goes supernova and deep-fries anything in a 30 to 7.500 lightyear radius depending on the star. So a single Necron lord could wave his arm through that hologram and BOOM. Even a Googol orks wouldn't survive that because when everywhere explodes (save some necron tomb worlds), nowhere's safe. And of course any and all spores are burned along with them.

Orks shed spores to reproduce even whilst they're alive; death just triggers an individually MASSIVE spore release. But everyone an ork scratches his back, spits, scrapes off some skin whilst working on a new bike, or gets cut in a brawl he's sheeding spores and making more orks.

Necrons phasing can be prevented if they sustain enough damage - which also destroys the personality of the individual necron (I.E. the important part). Not to mention that if a tomb world is lost.. Well, it's a pretty critical blow.

Yes, the Necrons could win a Pyrrhic victory by just snuffing all the sun existance and exterminating all life bar their own. But that defeats the purpose of winning - they want to rule a galaxy, not a collection of frozen ice balls. It's also stated that using the device in such a way has.. pretty dire effects, essentially throwing all of existence out of whack and making it unbalanced. We've no clue what this means, but just that it makes them very afraid. Utilizing the device in such a way as to wipe out the Orks (I.E. destroy every sun in the galaxy) could simply destroy the galaxy itself, melt reality, cause the material plane to merge with the warp permanently, or any number of other things. The point is that it's not really a viable option.

 morganfreeman wrote:


Orks shed spores to reproduce even whilst they're alive; death just triggers an individually MASSIVE spore release. But everyone an ork scratches his back, spits, scrapes off some skin whilst working on a new bike, or gets cut in a brawl he's sheeding spores and making more orks.

Necrons phasing can be prevented if they sustain enough damage - which also destroys the personality of the individual necron (I.E. the important part). Not to mention that if a tomb world is lost.. Well, it's a pretty critical blow.

Yes, the Necrons could win a Pyrrhic victory by just snuffing all the sun existance and exterminating all life bar their own. But that defeats the purpose of winning - they want to rule a galaxy, not a collection of frozen ice balls. It's also stated that using the device in such a way has.. pretty dire effects, essentially throwing all of existence out of whack and making it unbalanced. We've no clue what this means, but just that it makes them very afraid. Utilizing the device in such a way as to wipe out the Orks (I.E. destroy every sun in the galaxy) could simply destroy the galaxy itself, melt reality, cause the material plane to merge with the warp permanently, or any number of other things. The point is that it's not really a viable option.

And again I retort by saying it's unfair to say that it's easy to kill a Necron, because you "just have to deal enough damage" while at the same time, orks (as a race) would indestructible because they have spores. Necrons destroying spores would be just as likely as Orks destroying Necrons completely.

DaPino wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:


Orks shed spores to reproduce even whilst they're alive; death just triggers an individually MASSIVE spore release. But everyone an ork scratches his back, spits, scrapes off some skin whilst working on a new bike, or gets cut in a brawl he's sheeding spores and making more orks.

Necrons phasing can be prevented if they sustain enough damage - which also destroys the personality of the individual necron (I.E. the important part). Not to mention that if a tomb world is lost.. Well, it's a pretty critical blow.

Yes, the Necrons could win a Pyrrhic victory by just snuffing all the sun existance and exterminating all life bar their own. But that defeats the purpose of winning - they want to rule a galaxy, not a collection of frozen ice balls. It's also stated that using the device in such a way has.. pretty dire effects, essentially throwing all of existence out of whack and making it unbalanced. We've no clue what this means, but just that it makes them very afraid. Utilizing the device in such a way as to wipe out the Orks (I.E. destroy every sun in the galaxy) could simply destroy the galaxy itself, melt reality, cause the material plane to merge with the warp permanently, or any number of other things. The point is that it's not really a viable option.

And again I retort by saying it's unfair to say that it's easy to kill a Necron, because you "just have to deal enough damage" while at the same time, orks (as a race) would indestructible because they have spores. Necrons destroying spores would be just as likely as Orks destroying Necrons completely.

Not really, that's your fanboyism talking

He's complimenting the orks, why complain when someone is supporting your side? Necrons are extremely hard to put down, due to general resistance, powerful regeneration tech, and the fact that they bite back hard. One way to stop them would be to get inside the monolith and destroy it from the inside, but unless your Ciaphis Cain, it's not going to happen.

On the other hand, orks could swarm the crons with untold amounts of orky bits. Both sides are bound to take casualties, but orks won't really care because even if they have one ork left after the whole thing is done, they can come back. It would take an absurd amount of time to do it, but its possible. The one thing that made me go for orks was the fact that it's said they would take over the galaxy if they all united. (And a little bit of biasing, to be honest). These are my favorite two races, and this got me thinking. If orks get their hand on necron tech, could we see some necrorks? That, I would pay to see.

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
He's complimenting the orks, why complain when someone is supporting your side? Necrons are extremely hard to put down, due to general resistance, powerful regeneration tech, and the fact that they bite back hard. One way to stop them would be to get inside the monolith and destroy it from the inside, but unless your Ciaphis Cain, it's not going to happen.

On the other hand, orks could swarm the crons with untold amounts of orky bits. Both sides are bound to take casualties, but orks won't really care because even if they have one ork left after the whole thing is done, they can come back. It would take an absurd amount of time to do it, but its possible. The one thing that made me go for orks was the fact that it's said they would take over the galaxy if they all united. (And a little bit of biasing, to be honest). These are my favorite two races, and this got me thinking. If orks get their hand on necron tech, could we see some necrorks? That, I would pay to see.

Orks have gotten their hands on Necron technology and the result was them vaporizing not only themselves but the entire planet they were on. Classic case of curiosity killed the cat, or should I say ork in this case.

Gloriously orkish if I say so myself.

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
He's complimenting the orks, why complain when someone is supporting your side? Necrons are extremely hard to put down, due to general resistance, powerful regeneration tech, and the fact that they bite back hard. One way to stop them would be to get inside the monolith and destroy it from the inside, but unless your Ciaphis Cain, it's not going to happen.

On the other hand, orks could swarm the crons with untold amounts of orky bits. Both sides are bound to take casualties, but orks won't really care because even if they have one ork left after the whole thing is done, they can come back. It would take an absurd amount of time to do it, but its possible. The one thing that made me go for orks was the fact that it's said they would take over the galaxy if they all united. (And a little bit of biasing, to be honest). These are my favorite two races, and this got me thinking. If orks get their hand on necron tech, could we see some necrorks? That, I would pay to see.

But the same is said of a lot of armies in the fluff, so really if 2 armies gathered all of their forces, it'd just be immovable object versus unstoppable force.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:


Orks shed spores to reproduce even whilst they're alive; death just triggers an individually MASSIVE spore release. But everyone an ork scratches his back, spits, scrapes off some skin whilst working on a new bike, or gets cut in a brawl he's sheeding spores and making more orks.

Necrons phasing can be prevented if they sustain enough damage - which also destroys the personality of the individual necron (I.E. the important part). Not to mention that if a tomb world is lost.. Well, it's a pretty critical blow.

Yes, the Necrons could win a Pyrrhic victory by just snuffing all the sun existance and exterminating all life bar their own. But that defeats the purpose of winning - they want to rule a galaxy, not a collection of frozen ice balls. It's also stated that using the device in such a way has.. pretty dire effects, essentially throwing all of existence out of whack and making it unbalanced. We've no clue what this means, but just that it makes them very afraid. Utilizing the device in such a way as to wipe out the Orks (I.E. destroy every sun in the galaxy) could simply destroy the galaxy itself, melt reality, cause the material plane to merge with the warp permanently, or any number of other things. The point is that it's not really a viable option.

And again I retort by saying it's unfair to say that it's easy to kill a Necron, because you "just have to deal enough damage" while at the same time, orks (as a race) would indestructible because they have spores. Necrons destroying spores would be just as likely as Orks destroying Necrons completely.

Not really, that's your fanboyism talking

Oh really? A race capable of bending time and space would not be able to track down and destroy fungal spores?
Now you're just trying to make me laugh.

Same can't said of the other armies in the fluff. The Orks are the only ones with the fluff that says if they united they would sweep all the others from the galaxy.

Not sure how bending space and time (ie: big ass gravity) will help in hunting for spores. Does it let off a beeping noise when it finds spores in the ground like a metal detector? Does it allow them to stop time so that while they are destroying spores in one area of the galaxy the area they already cleared doesn't get filled up behind them with more Orks and spores? This is an issue the Imperium keeps running into. Destroy an entire planet and move on only to find that Orks repopulated the gap left behind either because some space debris with spores on it crashed into the planet or an Ork Kroozer comes out randomly from the warp to infest the broken planet all over again.

The galaxy has Orks up to saturation levels. There isn't a force big enough to coral them into a single long front and pushing them completely back.

DaPino wrote:

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
The one thing that made me go for orks was the fact that it's said they would take over the galaxy if they all united....

But the same is said of a lot of armies in the fluff, so really if 2 armies gathered all of their forces, it'd just be immovable object versus unstoppable force.

Citation needed.

Oh, sure, the nids are "uncountable and maybe have uncountable squared more coming" and the Necrons have "untold tomb worlds. They might have an empire of actual, superior soldiers almost as big as the entire Imperium of man." Orks get "united, they would crush all opposition" because uniting is -3% likely for them.


Really, that is why I enjoy the Orks "We are the krumpiest" and not the Tyranids "lol GG, We're more and better and become better faster and also there's more of us" or the Necrons "LULZ. We are magic and we totez killed everybody and we are faster and better and invincible and can point and explode you."

Granted, that's a little unfair but I honestly don't like the way the nids and the necrons do it in their fluff. Orks are a fun, believable, non-terminal, immeasurable menace. Some of you guys don't like that flavor in your grimdark, and that's okay. But yeah, you know which way I voted.



@The guy who made the insightful post in response to mine. Good point. I still don't think the Necrons would take Orks seriously until they had Necron tek. They're quite proud, or distracted, or insane, depending on the tomb world.

 Scrabb wrote:
Orks are a fun, believable

Believable? What?

 ProwlerPC wrote:

Not sure how bending space and time (ie: big ass gravity) will help in hunting for spores. Does it let off a beeping noise when it finds spores in the ground like a metal detector? Does it allow them to stop time so that while they are destroying spores in one area of the galaxy the area they already cleared doesn't get filled up behind them with more Orks and spores? This is an issue the Imperium keeps running into. Destroy an entire planet and move on only to find that Orks repopulated the gap left behind either because some space debris with spores on it crashed into the planet or an Ork Kroozer comes out randomly from the warp to infest the broken planet all over again.

On Armageddon it was proved that teams of soldiers with flamethrowers hunting down Ork Funghi before they hatch are an effective method of preventing Feral Ork resurgences.

And on Pragia and Valhalla, too

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:

Not sure how bending space and time (ie: big ass gravity) will help in hunting for spores. Does it let off a beeping noise when it finds spores in the ground like a metal detector? Does it allow them to stop time so that while they are destroying spores in one area of the galaxy the area they already cleared doesn't get filled up behind them with more Orks and spores? This is an issue the Imperium keeps running into. Destroy an entire planet and move on only to find that Orks repopulated the gap left behind either because some space debris with spores on it crashed into the planet or an Ork Kroozer comes out randomly from the warp to infest the broken planet all over again.

On Armageddon it was proved that teams of soldiers with flamethrowers hunting down Ork Funghi before they hatch are an effective method of preventing Feral Ork resurgences.

And ia it was proven nevrons are fragile in their eyes. Point is

Sorry but I know at least Boss Snikrot and his Red Skull Kommandos from Ghazzy's first invasion of Armegeddon survived and rejoined the battle when Ghazzy returned shedding spores the whole time. Ok here I got a part the fluff pointed out on pg 19 in W!G that 'Feral Orks and Kommando teams burst from the equatorial jungles and mountain ranges of Armegeddon to join the growing throngs.'
A world that had 57 yrs to the day to clean up and prepare and build up for the Orks return (Yarrick warned em). If they were missing all those and they had 57 yrs to shed spores it looks to me like a planet that was going to be stuck with the endless cycle of Orks despite best efforts short of exterminatus.

tyranids