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Wondering how people tend to play in the new edition. I've always been a fan of cool characters taking on whole squads and winning matches - and many times a game is decided in a character vrs character fight. But latley I've been seeing more and more lists designed with as cheap an hq as possible. "Captain disposables" as they are known in my local circle - Thier only job fill the hq slot, join a unit of whatever and then free up points for more troops.

Space marines for example can get a basic captain with bolt gun for less then 100 pts - attached to a stern gaurd or tac squad they provide more firepower get protection and don't eat a ton of points that are then spent on more units.

Is this how people on dakka play? Or is it preferred to have a powerful beatstick hq that can toe to toe just about anything in the game and win? (While paying close to 300pts or more for him?)

I tend to go minimal on HQ choices. I learned how to play with daemons and beginners mistakes are not kind to low model count armies. My current army is Dark Eldar which is mostly known for simple WWP caddies and 10 pt Lhamean taxes used to bring another venom. Hence, reliance on non-HQs to do work.

Although, more and more I see the value of big units like daemon princes and greater daemons so that may change.

PS, make this a poll question so we can have some stats and graphs!

The problem is just how powerful the shooting has gotten. A 250 point Chapter Master and a 90 point Captain will both still fall to a whole lot of high-strength shots. Against S8 and above, they may as well be a Scout Marine because all they get is a 4++ and they either make it or they die. It isn't hard to hit them with a whack of S8+ shots if they're a tempting enough target. The work around is either making them cheap enough to be left alone or tooling them up and surrounding them with a similarly tough unit (Deathstars.) A lot of the time, their ranged options are quite limited as well, so they can't dole out the punishment1.

Depends on the points for me.
Small Games I'd usually take a 4+ warboss and a metric gak ton of boyz
1250+ I'll go with a 2+ warboss

Alternatively now that I've switched to Daemonkin, all I have for HQ is a bloodthirster so I have to take him anyway.

When I use my space wolves, I like to try and make them look more like a space wolves force than a standard marine force, so I tend to take 3/4 different characters, each ranging between 120 or so to 190 points each.
When I use my eldar it depends on the day, normally I tend to use one farseer, and rarely use my autarchs

I love my Tech-Priest Dominus, but honestly he's just a bullet magnet and cognis platform for my Grav squad.

Despite the sheer amount of shooting, I like playing character-heavy with lots of elites (Pride of the Legion).

A lot of depends on the army you have and the kind of army you want to build. Shooty armies tend to take a cheap support HQ so as to maximize the points they can spend on units that put out dakka. Close-combat armies tend to be the ones where you see a heavily upgraded or expensive character, as they are more likely to end up in a situation where the upgrades will matter. 7th edition is shooty, so most Marine players tend to take a cheap generic Librarian as an HQ if they don't have a build revolving around a named character. Cheap Librarians are also most armies' form of psychic defense as well, which is also very important in 7th edition.

A lot of it can be determined by the base cost and statline. Are they cheap with an average statline to compensate for a special ability they bring, or are they cheap and have a good statline where they might benefit from some CC weapons and armour?

Games in 7th edition are not won in challenges most of the time. They are won by having mobility, firepower, and the ability to take and hold objectives. Slay the Warlord is important, but usually only as a tiebreaker. Points are often better spent on having more or better bodies on the table than well-equipped characters.

I like to go middle-of-the-road with my lists since the new SM codex came out, because of the new Gladius formation allowing me new ways to structure my army so that a dead 'ard HQ choice is no longer required to make my lists function. I put a few pieces of gear on him, but I rarely use relics and I rarely upgrade their saves.

Prior to that, I'd take at least one relic on each HQ and basically kit them as hard as possible.

I pick a single beefy hq choice and split the rest of the points between 'boots and treads ' so to speak

I still see character hammer, but don't like to try to make a super character to lead stuff anymore. They can stand out, but I think when building for MSU you don't want to spend too much on anything.

Playing White Scars I tend to run either Khan (150 pts, quite cheap) or a tooled out Captain (Arti armor, SS, Thunder Hammer, Bike about 175 pts) to go with a full grav/full SS bike squad to tank wounds, but I'm leaning towards a cheaper HQ since playing bikes gets me outnumbered to boot. But I don't want to lose the Command Squad tank char, so I'm torn about it.

I play Chaos, sooo Character Hammer all the way!
Flying Nurgle princes, kitted out Chaos Lords and Sorcerers in retinues...
In most CSM armies I've seen, the warlord does most of the heavy lifting - and I like it.
It matches the fluff well, it's cinematic...

I like to take two cost efficient support characters in my armies.

In my Necrons I have Illuminor Szeras and Orikans the Diviner. In my Blood Angels I have a Librarian and a Sanguinary priest. In my Eldar I have an Autarch and a Farsser. I usually play 2000 points BTW.

I guess it really depends on your army and playstyle.

IG tends to have cheap-ish HQs (except Pask)

Eldar HQs I think they are quite cheap and powerful supports (or at least more cost-effective than most HQs)

Marines can go from cheap libbies (or Telion if you're a Smurf) up to Chapter Master Smashf**ker passing from support HQs like Chaplains, Libbies and Techies to pure beatsticks. Named characters usually are half-half.

Crons I guess they want to have a ResOrb/Warscythe Overlord or a Triarch Stalker (the thing with shields), putting them on the Cheap Support side.

Chaos usually have some impressive beatsticks, like Flying DPs, Be'lakor, Chaos lords of nurgle on bikes, GUOs etc..

Nids go for Flyrants, so a Dakka/Choppa flying HQ of DOOOOOM!! They are one of the few armies happy to fill HQ slots first, then filling the rest of the roster.

DAs go with Sammael for Ravenwing (costly beatstick with some special rules), and I guess libbies for the rest.

Blood Angels have Sang Priests, a cheap and very good HQ, Libbies and Mephy for a psychic powerhouse, though Meph isn't cheap. *looking around nervously expecting to find Martel*

DE i don't have the slightest idea

Idem for Skitarii and Admech, but I guess they are pure cheap support/shooting HQs.

Orks go with Painboy and warboss on bikes, so a beatstick and a support, one quite costly, the other cheap (i guess)

Tau have support/shooty HQs ranging from cheap (ethereals) to costly (buffmander/longstrike/farsight)

GK's HQs are costly period


Did I forget someone?

 mathaius90 wrote:
I guess it really depends on your army and playstyle.

IG tends to have cheap-ish HQs (except Pask)

Eldar HQs I think they are quite cheap and powerful supports (or at least more cost-effective than most HQs)

Marines can go from cheap libbies (or Telion if you're a Smurf) up to Chapter Master Smashf**ker passing from support HQs like Chaplains, Libbies and Techies to pure beatsticks. Named characters usually are half-half.

Crons I guess they want to have a ResOrb/Warscythe Overlord or a Triarch Stalker (the thing with shields), putting them on the Cheap Support side.

Chaos usually have some impressive beatsticks, like Flying DPs, Be'lakor, Chaos lords of nurgle on bikes, GUOs etc..

Nids go for Flyrants, so a Dakka/Choppa flying HQ of DOOOOOM!! They are one of the few armies happy to fill HQ slots first, then filling the rest of the roster.

DAs go with Sammael for Ravenwing (costly beatstick with some special rules), and I guess libbies for the rest.

Blood Angels have Sang Priests, a cheap and very good HQ, Libbies and Mephy for a psychic powerhouse, though Meph isn't cheap. *looking around nervously expecting to find Martel*

DE i don't have the slightest idea

Idem for Skitarii and Admech, but I guess they are pure cheap support/shooting HQs.

Orks go with Painboy and warboss on bikes, so a beatstick and a support, one quite costly, the other cheap (i guess)

Tau have support/shooty HQs ranging from cheap (ethereals) to costly (buffmander/longstrike/farsight)

GK's HQs are costly period


Did I forget someone?

Sisters.

Extreme hero hammer list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570018.page
Admittedly in 6th with old SM dex. But not much has changed to affect the list tbf.

Some armies like daemons, nids, SMs and CSM make it possible to focus on herohammer. With Others like Guard, Renegades, DE, Orks etc are almost impossible to do so.

depends on the size of the game but I generally take a Warboss PK/DLS and I usually have him attached to either a unit of Boyz or warbikers. I also tend to take a Big Mek with a SAG because its hilarious.

In my old daemon army I had 2 maxed Bloodthirsters and 2 maxed daemon princes with hordes of daemons. I either won spectacularly or I lost spectacularly.

In my guard army I just have a basic officer in my CCS-no upgrades at all so I can fit in more troops and tanks. My games are a lot closer and the last game I played ended in a draw

I try to keep my characters’ price down. But then, I’ve been fielding minimalist HQs since 3rd edition, so nothing new here.

I usually run at about 250 points for my Sisters HQ selection once I go above 500 point games, which pretty much breaks down to

Canoness (Rosarius, Eternal Warrior, Power Weapon, Inferno Pistol)
5x Priest (1 with Litanies)

I play IG. Either I buff my CCS or not, it would still be crappy ! So I generally use Coteaz (he packs many abilities for 100pts) or an allied SM captain with jetpack and PW + SS. As a general rule, I really try to maximise my amount of troops because IG HQ is just a (quite good) force multiplier.

I play my CSM character heavy because the lore really is about "personal glory" and about the strong that are on the top of the chain.

Am I the only one here that builds for theme?
Granted, playing CSM that almost always means that a powerful character is leading the army, but yea, theme first, list second.

And I have trouble imagining a theme where the commander of the army just kinda sits there doing nothing. In the case of csm, legging it with his trusty bolt pistol and being the bodyguard for some random shmuck.

Roknar wrote:
Am I the only one here that builds for theme?
Granted, playing CSM that almost always means that a powerful character is leading the army, but yea, theme first, list second.

And I have trouble imagining a theme where the commander of the army just kinda sits there doing nothing. In the case of csm, legging it with his trusty bolt pistol and being the bodyguard for some random shmuck.

Just because I don’t sink a lot of points into my HQs doesn’t mean I’m not running them forward to victory.

A chaplain equipped with just a jump pack will lead assault marines into battle.
A stock librarian (with maybe an extra ML) rides in a drop pod alongside the sternguard.

Captains need a little gear to get the job done, so I buy them more upgrades. Normally artificer armor as a base, and a CC toy. Relic blades make for a good all-around weapon, ToT for a few more points if I want to get fancy. Usually a bike or JP, depending on where in the army they are going.

I like to run 1 middle priced HQ (like a kitted out Capitain or a cheap named character under 200pts) and 1 low price HQ (either a naked Librarian, or a Chaplain or whatever).

In my Ork army, It was always a Boss with bike and stuff, or Megaboss, with naked (I don't even think they have option lol) Painboy.

 DarthSpader wrote:
Wondering how people tend to play in the new edition. I've always been a fan of cool characters taking on whole squads and winning matches - and many times a game is decided in a character vrs character fight. But latley I've been seeing more and more lists designed with as cheap an hq as possible. "Captain disposables" as they are known in my local circle - Thier only job fill the hq slot, join a unit of whatever and then free up points for more troops.

Space marines for example can get a basic captain with bolt gun for less then 100 pts - attached to a stern gaurd or tac squad they provide more firepower get protection and don't eat a ton of points that are then spent on more units.

Is this how people on dakka play? Or is it preferred to have a powerful beatstick hq that can toe to toe just about anything in the game and win? (While paying close to 300pts or more for him?)

Depends on my mood! Sometimes I want a beat-stick Captain in terminator armor with a Lightning Claw and a Storm Shield!

Sometimes I want a cheap chaplain stuck in with some sternguard or something that has room in their transport.

With my IG I like to use Commander Pask against armour, but usually lean towards a buffing company command with minimal special weapons but a regimental standard, astropath, master of ordnance etc. Usually accounts close to 150 points which in comparison to other armies HQ's is cheap.

With my daemons I like to go with buffed out heralds, one tzeentch and one khorne. They have such low base costs that they can still be considered cheap HQ's once kitted out but can also be very powerful. It only costs 120 points for me to make a ML3 tzeentch herald on a disc which will go on in games to summon 250 point bloodthirsters with relative ease.

A lot depends on which army I'm running. Orks for example need character support in key places to function properly outside of a few cornercase builds. My various marine factions, GKs, eldar, DE are all far less dependent on characters. From there its whether or not the ICs actually add anything useful to the list. GKs and DE you really struggle to find a reason to include anything beyond compulsory, which sucks. That said unless I'm going full stop competitive then I usually prefer an avatar type character to represent me at the least and sometimes multiples because I enjoy running characters.

It all just depends on the army and whether or not I have a specific theme of fluff I want to put on the table.

Eldar: I usually take at least one Phoenix Lord backed up by at least one other HQ. I've been known to take up to 4 HQs at once. O_O

It varies a lot with my dark eldar. A pimped out archon is pointy, but whether or not he's worth those points depends largely on how long his shadowfield holds up. I've been fielding Drazhar a lot lately (yes really), and he's pretty pointy. Usually my generic HQs have a webway portal between them, so I suppose my points for dark kin hq tend to be pretty heavily. The only exception would be my webway portal haemonculus with a scissor hand.

When I play marines, I like to bring the Raptors chapter master and at least one librarian who may or may not be swaggering around in terminator armor. So expensive ish.

Chaos is, oddly, my least expensive HQ. I usually just give my chaos lord a power sword and maybe a sigil of corruption to go with his mark of Slaanesh. Depending on the list, I might also take an allied herald of Slaanesh or a librarian though.

Generally speaking, putting lots of points into a few heroes is less effective than sticking those points into more guns. The only real exceptions that come to mind are 'nids and daemons (because their best HQs simply don't come cheap and are kind of core to the armies) and any list that's running a deathstar. Deathstars are, by definition, good at absorbing damage and can thus get away with being pricey.