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2016/02/10 19:53:03
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Every single one of those worn out "criticisms" has been addressed multiple times by myself and many other people. Frankly, everything you wrote is just lazy, poorly thought out attempts at honest criticism.
Addressed? Not really. They are valid criticisms.
I guess we'll see in a year if the fan base still feels as warmly towards TFA. I suspect it will be more like Into Darkness, a movie more and more disliked as time goes by.
"The fan base" isn't a homogeneous thing. I think people have made up their minds and won't reverse course down the road just because. Personally, I think the majority of those who dislike TFA had partially made up their minds headed into the theater, and were never really going to be positive about the film, for a variety of reasons.
And again...the vast majority of critics and audiences are quite positive about TFA.
I don't know how Into Darkness has anything to do with TFA other than axe-grinding, but would be interested to see your data showing some shift in audience opinions regarding the film.
gorgon wrote: "The fan base" isn't a homogeneous thing. I think people have made up their minds and won't reverse course down the road just because. Personally, I think the majority of those who dislike TFA had partially made up their minds headed into the theater, and were never really going to be positive about the film, for a variety of reasons.
And again...the vast majority of critics and audiences are quite positive about TFA.
I don't know how Into Darkness has anything to do with TFA other than axe-grinding, but would be interested to see your data showing some shift in audience opinions regarding the film.
Hand on heart, when I walked into the cinema, I wasn't expecting Citizen Kane or The Godfather, but neither was I expecting a remake of a new hope.
I was looking forward to seeing Solo, Chewie, and Skywalker, again.
Instead, Harrison Ford phoned it in, Han's death might has well have had flashing signs and a see Han die app on sale at apple, and Luke?
He's hidden away in the most secret place in the galaxy or something, but somehow there's a map with his location, and the Republic, with all its resources, couldn't find him...right...
Does he owe the Republic a ton of corporation tax money or is there something else? I felt robbed, becuase he never said a word.
Now we're getting word that the backstory is explained in a new Lego Stars Wars game and probably a book as well...
As for the new star trek films, most of them didn't make sense. Some good action scenes, but weak story, and only the presense of Cumberbatch and Nimoy salvages into Darkness.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/02/11 01:54:06
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Instead, Harrison Ford phoned it in, Han's death might has well have had flashing signs and a see Han die app on sale at apple, and Luke?
I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Well, not the bit about Han's death being telegraphed... that most certainly was. But Ford's performance was awesome. Certainly better than RotJ, and that for me was a big part of the downside to them killing him off... They did an awesome job with the interplay between Han and Chewie in this movie, and I'm sad that we won't get more of that.
He's hidden away in the most secret place in the galaxy or something, but somehow there's a map with his location, and the Republic, with all its resources, couldn't find him...right...
I might have misunderstood something, but my impression was that the Republic wasn't looking for him. Only the Resistance were... and they have considerably fewer resources and still ultimately did find him.
2016/02/11 09:55:20
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I have always been intrigued by BoShek. When Ben Kenobi enters the cantina on Mos Eisley looking for a pilot to take himself, the boy and two droids to Alderaan, his first choice is a smuggler sporting arched eyebrows, killer muttonchops, and a black and white space suit more akin to an astronaut than a fighter pilot. While we cannot hear their dialogue, it is obvious that Kenobi asks him for a ride to Alderaan–and for whatever reason, the space pilot says no.
Was his ship out of commission? Did he have another charter later that day?
Whatever the reason, BoShek turns down the offer, but smoothly motions over his shoulder to the furry beast behind him, in my mind saying something to the effect of “Sorry, I can’t help you. But why don’t you give him a try?”
That furry beast, Chewbacca, then brings Kenobi and Skywalker to the table, Han Solo sits down, the rest is history…and BoShek faded forever into the darkness of the Mos Eisley bar.
So as I sat with my daughter in the Anaheim Convention center listening to Tom Spina and Pablo Hidalga’s fantastic panel “Secrets of the Mos Eisley Cantina,” I was shocked to discover that we had no idea who the actor was who played BoShek.
What? BoShek even has his own action figure. But we don’t know the name of actor who played him?
If these two Star Wars scholars—Spina, of Tom Spina Designs, an incredible designer who had recently recreated the Cantina scene for a Volkswagen commercial, and Hidalgo, Creative Executive at Lucasfilm—did not know who BoShek was, it was pretty safe to say the internet didn’t either. But the crowd can be very powerful when tapped.
I make my living as an investigative journalist. I write and produce true crime stories for places like Rolling Stone, Los Angeles Magazine, and I am on the Warner Bros. syndicated show Crime Watch Daily. Many of the stories I tell are of the unsolved murder and missing persons variety. I am also one of the country’s experts on citizen detectives—individuals who team up online to solve crimes. The last time I was at a conference, I was presenting a panel called “Citizen Dicks: Solving Murders With Social Media.”
So as I sat with my daughter listening to Spina and Hidalgo’s panel, I felt I had found my sense of purpose in the Star Wars universe. Since Star Wars has neither had a journalist nor a detective onscreen, this could be my best chance to make a contribution.
I was going to find BoShek.
I wrote to Tom Spina out of the blue, telling him that he inspired my quest.
“Here’s a recent example of my work: The story of how Facebook detectives tracked down a person who was videotaping himself killing kittens and posting on the web–and how the police did little until his next video, which depicted him killing a person.”
Thankfully, Tom put aside the fact that a stranger sent him a story about dead kittens and wrote me back.
“As for the mystery of BoShek, we don’t have much,” Tom wrote. “He appears on the right of the screen cap below which I’ve been told is from the UK series “the New Avengers” but I don’t know the episode and he’s said to be uncredited.” This info came from Lee Allum, a UK autograph hunter who had tracked down Alfie Curtis, the man who played Dr. Cornelius “He doesn’t like you” Evazan.
I stared at the photo of an actor playing a Russian thug. It certainly looked like him. Tom sent some of the random names that appeared in the production notes:
“Bob Watson (appeared in a Dr. Who, I’ve watched the ep and he’s said to be 1 of the four guards, but none seem to match our spacer) Reg Thomason (appears at the end of the film as a rebel, too old to be our guy anyway) Basil Tomlin (haven’t found a pic of him).”
He also mentioned Anthony Lang, who is often credited as being BoShek, but is clearly not the guy we are looking for.
“Sure would be neat if someone could turn him up,” wrote Tom, ending the email.
“Alright Tom, I’m on this,” I wrote back. “I normally have to track down people who have killed people and don’t want to be found, so this is a whole different ball of wax (unless this guy killed someone, of course).”
I tracked down The New Avengers episode and searched for any clues. It was part one of “K is For Kill: The Tiger Awakens.” The episode had a French director and a French casting director (an outfit called MaMade). Could BoShek be French?. They shot the show in both France and Canada, but this episode was in France. I contacted people who worked for MaMade. No luck.
The journey started taking me the back alleys of the internet, talking with a handful, like Laurie Goode, stormtrooper who famously smacks his head in the Death Star. He directed me to collector Dave Oldbury, who has helped identify some of the patrons in the past. Dave led me to Greg Rudevics (who makes Kenny Baker custom figures). We teamed up, with Greg contacting a casting director for The New Avengers (but she only booked the shows shot in Canada). I found a still from The New Avengers episode, and Greg and I went over it inch by inch to see if it might be shot in France or England. Greg ordered the episode on VHS and took screen shots.
I contacted the Casting Directors Guild in the UK and corresponded with
to a delightfully pleasant English Woman. Nothing.
I ran genealogy searches on the three names from the production notes Tom gave me. I sent out-of-the-blue emails to relatives of Basil Tomlin and Reg Thomason. I didn’t hear anything back.
Could BoShek have been one of the Uglies, the famous troupe of characters that were brought in to fill the Cantina. I contacted Pam Rose, who played long-legged Cantina patron Leesub Sirln (who also has an action figure). I had hoped maybe she talked to him, maybe he hit on her? Did he have a French accent? “It was 40 years ago!” she said playfully to me.
I started a thread in britmovie.co, and one on Rebelscum.com under the subject line:
“Searching For BoShek”
“I’m on the search to track down the actor who played BoShek. I have spotted him in an episode of “the New Avengers” shot in France (playing a Russian soldier), but wondering if anyone here has any leads.”
Some people suggested an actor named Guy Standaven, who had been in hundreds of roles. But he was not our guy.
My place in the Star Wars universe was fading. I had cast my net out there, and worked leads. But there were true bad guys to catch, and my search slowed to a crawl. I would check back every month to see if anything new had developed. It turned from an active investigation into a “Wanted Poster” scenario. The posts were out there on the internet. If someone did search for BoShek they would find me–and if they had any information, hopefully contact me.
And this morning someone did.
“Hi, I wanted to let you know that it was my grandfather who played the part of boShek,” the email began. “As a family we have always known he played the part. However we have only just found out that they made a toy of him.
Sadly he is dead now but we are trying to get his name put on to the credits as I believe others have taken credit for it. If you are genuinely interested I could try and dig out some pictures of him to prove I’m not pulling your leg.
Kind regards
Barry Gregory”
I immediately emailed Barry back, and he gave me his mother’s mail. Sylvia Holt replied.
“My Dad Mr Frances, Alfred, Basil Tomlin played the part of Boshek. Everyone new my Dad as Tom. Unfortunately my Dad passed away over 11 years ago now but it would be nice if we could get his name reconised as his claim to fame was his part as Boshek and a storm trooper in the first Star Wars film.”
And as proof, she sent me this photo.
After searching for months, I found myself gazing into the dark eyes of BoShek, sporting an incredibly spiffy shirt and those killer sideburns.
Mr. Tomlin’s family is gathering more photos and information for me, which I will share as soon as I receive them. And I am talking with Tom Spina to try and get Tomlin the recognition he deserves within the Star Wars universe.
Now I have to go chase some bad guys. (Although we still don’t know who played Walrus Man. Hmmm…)
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/02/11 10:22:49
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I get this dread feeling that they'll jump the shark so much, they'll end up re-making jaws, and Solo will turn up in Episode VIII.
It's Disney, it's the sorta thing they do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Every single one of those worn out "criticisms" has been addressed multiple times by myself and many other people. Frankly, everything you wrote is just lazy, poorly thought out attempts at honest criticism.
The only thing that is lazy and poorly thought out, is the TFA script.
We have a Mary Sue character who demolishes all the established rules of the previous 6 Star wars films.
Anakin was born from the force, but it takes him years to become a master.
We see the hard struggle that Luke went through from IV-VI
and even in video games, Revan, despite the mind wipe, still needed training.
And then we have Mary Sue, who starts using force powers as though they were the same as learning to make a coffee.
But her defenders will say, a-ha, she's been mind wiped, or the next film will reveal all.
If people have to invent their own theories to fill in massive plot holes, or buy a book, or a video game, to fill in massive gaps in the backstory, or the plot, then the film was never worth the price of a ticket, despite what the apologists might say.
Lord of the rings was a film trilogy, as you know, but each film stood up on its own merits.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Phantom Menance was rightly criticised for its failings, and yet, people are turning a blind eye to the massive inconsistencies that litter TFA from the first minute to the last.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/11 13:18:55
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/02/11 14:46:36
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
And you saying those minority opinions and distortions over and over again won't make them true. Not now, and not the next 47 times you say them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
reds8n wrote: I though Ford was great... his face when he stepped out on that bridge ....
Ford was really good...seems like he connected with the script and characters in a way he didn't in RotJ. For me, it was the yell. There's a great underlying note of anguish in it.
For someone to say that Ford phoned it in...again, I really have no idea what movie they were watching. It's just seeing what you want to see, 'cause it's not there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/11 14:50:18
Yeah, Ford was far and away the best performance in the film, the best performance I've ever seen from him and quite possibly one of the best performances in film period. Took the character that could very easily have become a caricature of himself if the writing or performance hadn't been as good as they were, and made us care so much more to the point where I can't think of a single moment in any film more heart-rending than that bit...
I'd address the rest of the criticisms, but they've all been covered at least 10 times in this thread alone! No one's mind is going to be changed at this point; you will get the people who hate it, the people that really don't care and the people like me that can't think of two hours of my life I've enjoyed more than watching TFA for the first time, and none of them are going to change anyone else's opinion.
What I will say, though, is that in real life, I have not spoken to a single person that didn't like the film, from die-hard Star Wars fans to people who've seen the others once or twice. There is obviously a range from 'it was good, but not the OT' to 'Holy gak that was literally the best film ever!' (yeah, that was me! Not just me, though, others have expressed similar 8-year-old-like excitement), but I've yet to meet anyone who thought it was a bad film.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/11 15:05:47
2016/02/11 15:28:42
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Hand on heart, when I walked into the cinema, I wasn't expecting Citizen Kane or The Godfather, but neither was I expecting a remake of a new hope.
I was looking forward to seeing Solo, Chewie, and Skywalker, again.
I agree with you. During the movie I was entertained, but the moment it was over I saw it for what it was. A pale imitation of A New Hope.
I also agree that The Phantom Menace was a much more original Star Wars film than The Force Awakens. This assessment is based on objective observations of Plot Points, Character Arcs, and Structure.
None of which has been addressed, because everyone knows they were trying to mimic a New Hope.
Edit: I did not think Harrison Ford was phoning it in. I thought he did a good job. Carrie Fischer on the other hand needed to brush up on her skills. It has been a while since she was in a film.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/11 15:30:18
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2016/02/11 15:58:16
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
TFA is the main example, so this seemed appropriate here. Also posting the truncated version with a link to full essay for those interested: endings are now obsolete
For many characters in popular, long-running franchises, there is no such thing as retirement or living “happily ever after.” Fans keep demanding new adventures of old favorites, and so familiar heroes are no longer allowed to live out their golden years in peace and seclusion. This applies manifestly to both the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the Star Wars saga, especially now that both are under the aegis of Walt Disney and CEO Robert Iger. An essay called “Unfinished Business” in The Guardian by Nicholas Barber argues that this trend robs films of something essential and wonderful: Unlike real people, movie characters can expect to face “one or two major crises in their lives, whereupon they could look forward to indefinite rest and recuperation.” That is a very satisfying idea, and it’s being snuffed out with each sequel and reboot. Exhibit A in Barber’s case is, naturally, The Force Awakens, a “depressing” film that nullifies everything that happened at the end of Return Of The Jedi. In the long run, Luke Skywalker and his pals accomplished exactly nothing in the original trilogy. As of the latest film, the problems in their galaxy are as bad as ever, if not worse.
...
If blockbusters are now going to replace every “The End” with a “To Be Continued,” they will lose this essential part of their appeal. Why see a Star Wars episode when you could just skip it and see the next one, or the next one, or the next one after that?
...
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/02/11 15:59:35
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
People are saying that the criticisms have been addressed in previous posts, but having looked through them, IMO, the default response seems to be
either:
a) It will be revealed in the next film, which essentially means I have to pay twice to get the full experience of the first film
b) buy the book/game/happy meal in a few months time which will fill in the backstory.
c) It's star wars so any old bull goes and massive plot holes are part of the Star Wars experience, and you're an idiot for being unhappy at being treated like an idiot by the filmmakers...
d) insert your own theory/ invent your own story, thus doing the scriptwriters job for them...
I honestly believe that people are that keen to erase the hogwash that was Phantom Menace, they'll forgive TFA's many many faults, and they are legion.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/02/11 16:28:05
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are saying that the criticisms have been addressed in previous posts, but having looked through them, IMO, the default response seems to be
either:
a) It will be revealed in the next film, which essentially means I have to pay twice to get the full experience of the first film
b) buy the book/game/happy meal in a few months time which will fill in the backstory.
c) It's star wars so any old bull goes and massive plot holes are part of the Star Wars experience, and you're an idiot for being unhappy at being treated like an idiot by the filmmakers...
d) insert your own theory/ invent your own story, thus doing the scriptwriters job for them...
I honestly believe that people are that keen to erase the hogwash that was Phantom Menace, they'll forgive TFA's many many faults, and they are legion.
The thing is, when you're looking at the film and going "it's worse than the other films because X", then "but X is a thing that happens in all of the films" is a perfectly valid response. Open-ended threads and things not being fully explained and only built upon in later films *is* a thing that happens in Star Wars. The clone wars were first mentioned by Obi-Wan in 1977 and weren't explained until 2002 a full 25 years later, so expecting everything about everything to be explained immediately is asking for a massive departure from the traditional Star Wars format.
gorgon wrote: Personally, I think the majority of those who dislike TFA had partially made up their minds headed into the theater, and were never really going to be positive about the film, for a variety of reasons.
If we're going to play that game, one could claim the reverse too. Most everyone who liked TFA had already decided it was going to be good from the beginning -- They finally got rid of Lucas! It can't be worse than the Prequels! JJ can do no wrong!
Easy E wrote: During the movie I was entertained, but the moment it was over I saw it for what it was. A pale imitation of A New Hope.
I was very much the same way. Enjoyed the film while watching it, but I have no reason to ever see it again.
I have to wonder how the people who claim to have seen the movie dozens of times manage to do it -- this is a general question, mind you, not strictly SW related. I can sometimes manage 2 viewings if I really like the film, maaaybe 3 at absolute best, but at that point I've absorbed everything and I might as well save that money for the DVD.
There is a difference between some information not being revealed (or not actually existing yet) and creating holes just to get people to buy things. Sure some things weren't explained before but that doesn't excuse the latter, and saying "well it is Star Wars" doesn't change that either.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rootbeard wrote: I have to wonder how the people who claim to have seen the movie dozens of times manage to do it -- this is a general question, mind you, not strictly SW related. I can sometimes manage 2 viewings if I really like the film, maaaybe 3 at absolute best, but at that point I've absorbed everything and I might as well save that money for the DVD.
I never really got that either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/11 16:59:44
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/02/11 17:06:17
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I was very much the same way. Enjoyed the film while watching it, but I have no reason to ever see it again.
I have to wonder how the people who claim to have seen the movie dozens of times manage to do it -- this is a general question, mind you, not strictly SW related. I can sometimes manage 2 viewings if I really like the film, maaaybe 3 at absolute best, but at that point I've absorbed everything and I might as well save that money for the DVD.
3 is my record, for TFA, next highest is Age of Ultron which I saw twice (and I imagine Batman Vs Superman will equal that). First time was just two hours of jaw-hanging-open, grinning like an 8-year-old, tearing up joy, the second was appreciating it as a great movie in its own right, third was just watching it to enjoy it; by then, I know the plot, know how things pan out, I can just stop thinking and just watch it.
Once stuff is on DVD, though, all bets are off. Some films, I save for special occasions, stuff like LotR, the Dark Knight trilogy, OT Star Wars, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, stuff like that I'll watch once or twice a year at most. On the other hand, I've easily see Avengers Assembly upwards of 20 times, Guardians of the Galaxy at least a dozen, Hot Fuzz and Shaun of the Dead no idea how many times. There's two types of great films, the ones in my former list that are so epic and exciting that watching them is always an event. not just 'stick a film on with dinner', and then there's the latter type, the ones that are every bit as good whether it's your first or twenty-first time of watching them.
TFA will probably get to sit alongside ANH and ESB in the former category, I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/11 17:07:17
2016/02/11 17:43:42
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I think Harrison Ford did a great job acting this one out, the back and forth with chewie was excellent, Ill miss that but between Chewie and Rey there will be something to fill that void.
Actually almost every single actor was a spot on pick with the exception of casting John Boyega as Finn. His acting in this movie just never seems to fit or believably portray someone who is actually in the star wars universe. He just had an anachronistic out of place vibe in the movie and he isnt a particularly good actor in my opinion.
2016/02/11 17:44:57
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Boyega's acting would have made more sense as a civilian who get caught up in some horrible events, not as an ex Stormtrooper.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are saying that the criticisms have been addressed in previous posts, but having looked through them, IMO, the default response seems to be
either:
a) It will be revealed in the next film, which essentially means I have to pay twice to get the full experience of the first film
b) buy the book/game/happy meal in a few months time which will fill in the backstory.
c) It's star wars so any old bull goes and massive plot holes are part of the Star Wars experience, and you're an idiot for being unhappy at being treated like an idiot by the filmmakers...
d) insert your own theory/ invent your own story, thus doing the scriptwriters job for them...
I honestly believe that people are that keen to erase the hogwash that was Phantom Menace, they'll forgive TFA's many many faults, and they are legion.
The thing is, when you're looking at the film and going "it's worse than the other films because X", then "but X is a thing that happens in all of the films" is a perfectly valid response. Open-ended threads and things not being fully explained and only built upon in later films *is* a thing that happens in Star Wars. The clone wars were first mentioned by Obi-Wan in 1977 and weren't explained until 2002 a full 25 years later, so expecting everything about everything to be explained immediately is asking for a massive departure from the traditional Star Wars format.
In the context of all the SW's films and games, your point about the Clone wars is fair and valid,
BUT
When Lucas did a new hope, he had no idea that it would be so successful. Hell, it's a miracle it even got the go ahead.
In a one film context, the mention of the Clone Wars is a valid plot device, as Ben is countering the narrative put forward by Luke's uncle about Luke's father only being a navigator.
That's the crucial difference.
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Grey Templar wrote: Boyega's acting would have made more sense as a civilian who get caught up in some horrible events, not as an ex Stormtrooper.
Completely agree with this.
It's my belief that somebody who had been indoctrinated by the order their whole life, and raised in a closed, military setting, would be a lot more socially awkward and not that good at interacting with strangers.. Instead, he acted as though he were an average Joe, which would have worked if they had made him a civilian.
Plus, as I mentioned earlier, he could have solved the backstory in less than 30 seconds. For example, I'm a civilian fleeing my planet. The New Republic is too weak to protect every planet, and these new guys, called the order, came from nowhere and attacked us.
Script writing 101
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/11 18:18:08
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/02/11 21:28:24
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
.... does no one realize that Star Wars could also be called "The Skywalker Legacy" and is intended to be cyclical in nature? Each arc (each trilogy) is basically retelling the story of the previous. Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and the effect he has on the galaxy at large, rippling through generations of his descendants.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2016/02/11 22:25:11
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Psienesis wrote: .... does no one realize that Star Wars could also be called "The Skywalker Legacy" and is intended to be cyclical in nature? Each arc (each trilogy) is basically retelling the story of the previous. Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and the effect he has on the galaxy at large, rippling through generations of his descendants.
Or at least, that's the spin that Lucas put on it when he chose to focus the Prequels on Anakin.
Darth Vader was a bit character in the original movie. For the amount of screen time he gets compared to the other characters, he's ultimately the least important of the 'main' characters in the other two movies of the original trilogy. His redemption in RotJ was less about him and more about Luke's journey to becoming a Jedi, by letting go of his hate and forgiving him.
It was only when the Prequels came along that Lucas announced that, no no, it was actually all about Anakin from the start! Which, coincidentally, happened around the same time that he started saying that he had only ever planned for 6 movies (despite having said that there were going to be 9, back in the 80s), because the story was effectively 'finished' once Anakin died.
As for 'retelling the story of the previous trilogy'... I'm not sure where that idea came from. The story line of the original trilogy and the story line of the prequels are nothing alike, other than that they both involve a main character who lives on Tatooine.
Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the parallels between The Force Awakens and the original trilogy. But I don't believe it was done because of an existing cycle... It was (IMO) simply a way for them to say 'See. the new movies are going to be more like the originals than the prequels!'. I would expect that the movies to come will move off in different directions with their stories.
2016/02/12 02:11:24
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
insaniak wrote: Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the parallels between The Force Awakens and the original trilogy. But I don't believe it was done because of an existing cycle... It was (IMO) simply a way for them to say 'See. the new movies are going to be more like the originals than the prequels!'. I would expect that the movies to come will move off in different directions with their stories.
All joking aside I agree with this statement quite a bit.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/02/12 16:42:03
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
insaniak wrote: Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the parallels between The Force Awakens and the original trilogy. But I don't believe it was done because of an existing cycle... It was (IMO) simply a way for them to say 'See. the new movies are going to be more like the originals than the prequels!'. I would expect that the movies to come will move off in different directions with their stories.
All joking aside I agree with this statement quite a bit.
I hope so, and I think that way as well.
However, we just don't know yet.
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2016/02/12 16:46:22
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Okay, major hot tip that just came down from somebody in the know-huge spoiler for the next movie, so be wary and don't open if you don't want it ruined for you!
Spoiler:
Luke is actually Han's father, due to Marvel-style time travel, and Disney has decided that since they can't have X-men time travel, they'll have Luke do it. Rey's first mission as a Jedi trainee (they're skipping the term "Padawan" entirely) will be to go back in time with Luke to save Han's life. No father should have to bury his son. It's meant to be touching.
My interjection on this: clearly Disney didn't think this through, as Leia's relationship with Han is not an appropriate Aunt/Nephew one
You heard it here first, people!
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2016/02/12 16:49:40
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
I still say that Starkiller Base was so over the top that it really soured things. It was just too over the top, both in size and sucking the sun dry to power it. It seemed like something more fitting in the Marvel space-borne setting, like some killer machine owned by Thanos, or some other big bad.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2016/02/13 01:29:34
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
AegisGrimm wrote: I still say that Starkiller Base was so over the top that it really soured things. It was just too over the top, both in size and sucking the sun dry to power it. It seemed like something more fitting in the Marvel space-borne setting, like some killer machine owned by Thanos, or some other big bad.
Snoke is Thanos... didn't you know? Starkiller base was actually powered by the stones from the Infinity Gauntlet. It wasn't actually at "full" capacity during the events of TFA, because during his training, Kylo Ren needed a red stone for his lightsaber, and the first one he found happened to be in a funny looking golden glove
2016/02/13 20:00:19
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
timetowaste85 wrote: Okay, major hot tip that just came down from somebody in the know-huge spoiler for the next movie, so be wary and don't open if you don't want it ruined for you!
Spoiler:
Luke is actually Han's father, due to Marvel-style time travel, and Disney has decided that since they can't have X-men time travel, they'll have Luke do it. Rey's first mission as a Jedi trainee (they're skipping the term "Padawan" entirely) will be to go back in time with Luke to save Han's life. No father should have to bury his son. It's meant to be touching.
My interjection on this: clearly Disney didn't think this through, as Leia's relationship with Han is not an appropriate Aunt/Nephew one
You heard it here first, people!
This directly contradicts the other plot spoiler:
Spoiler:
The First Order discovers a hidden Resistance base on a distant planet and launches an attack, forcing the Resistance and the traitor to retreat. Meanwhile, Luke and Rey fly to a distant planet to train Rey in the force. Ren contintues to write sad poems and hires a bounty hunter to search for the fled Resistance members. Luke is killed by the newly revealed superevil Sith villain and Rey is captured by the enemy. Leia and the others manage to escape the bounty hunters and flee to an old friend of Leia who turns out to be a double agent. Ren thinks that killing Leia will make him finally succumb to the dark side, but he fails to kill her after being defeated by a transgender former servant who smashes a flower pot on Ren's head. Rey faces the new supervillain in a classic lightsaber battle, but loses her right arm in the process. In the very last second, she is rescued by Leia and her crew who even managed to salvage Luke's mechanical arm that is infused with Luke's Force. With this mighty new artifact at hand (hahaha!), they are preparing for a strike against the First Order. Cut, next movie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/13 20:00:35
insaniak wrote: Don't get me wrong - I have no issue with the parallels between The Force Awakens and the original trilogy. But I don't believe it was done because of an existing cycle... It was (IMO) simply a way for them to say 'See. the new movies are going to be more like the originals than the prequels!'. I would expect that the movies to come will move off in different directions with their stories.
All joking aside I agree with this statement quite a bit.
I agree also, but for different reasons.
The Force Awakens mimics a New Hope not so much as to be more associable with that story than the prequel trilogy stories, but because JJ Abrams is a cash cow director. Frankly he hasn't got a top imagination, but what he does do well is taking a franchise putting a new spin on a used story and making money. Abrams is a corporate choice director, someone who can make a film that will make money and wont risk that for greater creativity. JJ Abrams previous big movie was not-Wrath of Khan, so it makes financial sense for him to direct not-A New Hope.
Star Wars will make money anyway, Attack of the Clones proves this, but JJ Abrams makes safe money, which is what Disney is after.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2016/02/14 04:45:28
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
That might be true for other franchises, but Star Wars is so big at this point that I think it would be impossible to NOT make money. There is no such thing as un-safe money when it comes to Star Wars.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
