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 Talys wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

It's a really strange tactic, re-releasing old models as new factions. By pushing these reboxed kits out and insisting, "no no no, these aren't lizardmen, they're Seraphon, guys," GW is just reminding everyone about the destruction of WHFB, which for prospective players at best a non-issue, and at worst an insult. How do they expect this to play out?

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. If anything, this should reassure people that their models are going to be good for a long time. What does it matter if they're for WHFB 8e rules or AoS rules? Base them however way you want, play whatever rules you want. The issue for GW is that nobody was buying lizardmen. Even if they pumped out 3 new model boxes, still... very few people would buy lizardmen. Same for bretonians and empire.

I am happy the models haven't changed but would it be so hard for them to include both round and square bases? After all AoS dosn't care what base you use but 8th edition does, at least they could pretend to care about their old customers.

Daston wrote:
I am happy the models haven't changed but would it be so hard for them to include both round and square bases? After all AoS dosn't care what base you use but 8th edition does, at least they could pretend to care about their old customers.

Changing everything to round bases is (yet another) cost cutting measure, so they won't be including square bases as they're trying to phase them out.

Turn down the level of snark in here by at least 75%, lest additional users suffer moderator...displeasure.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

I don't think anyone expected that AoS would come near 40k dollars, though. The question is... when you compare AoS sales to WHFB sales, are AoS sales better compared to a year prior? Are there any sustained sales? If the 1/3 of sales that you got during the months (where there was no new 40k) were primarily AoS, then GW's experiment was a smashing success. If the 1/3 of sales was primarily 40k (in the form selling old stuff), and nobody bought AoS... then it was a horrible failure.

Is there any interest at all in the Seraphon? I don't think anyone cares in my local scene. The lizardmen boxes haven't moved for years, and I really doubt the new ones will either.

Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Yeah, as a whole, the shop that I buy from also sells a lot more AoS now than WHFB. And I do mean, some stupendous factor, but WHFB sales were terrible before, so in that respect, they are quite happy. A lot of the cheaper terrain kits, too. But -- and I could be wrong -- I think it's still dwarfed by 40k, and I don't think in the Summer of Sigmar, the AoS sales came close to making up for no 40k releases.

 mikhaila wrote:

Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

Ouch.

Big ouch.

Nice to get some real numbers amist all the speculation, obviously you're just one vendor but a major one and certainly one devoted to the miniature hobby.

Out of curiosity are any of the other games out there able to make up for the sales?

I can also confirm over here in WA (near Seattle) AoS is pretty much non existent. Very small AOS in many stores.

There are zero aos players at our club, as soon as it dropped fantasy died, hard, which is a shame as we could have easily ignored aos and carried on with fantasy.

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

 Formosa wrote:
There are zero aos players at our club, as soon as it dropped fantasy died, hard, which is a shame as we could have easily ignored aos and carried on with fantasy.

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

There is lots of moving trays with holes. Though surprisingly few that has 25mm holes placed close enough together that they give the same footprint as ranking up 25mm squares. Back to basicks is the only store I can think of. I don't think that many people rebased for AoS anyway.

And it's not like GW is the sole supplier of square bases. If you don't have a million of them laying around from old puchases, you can buy new ones dirt-cheap from a million places.

I have millions of square bases because I keep buying WHFB kits for AoS :-p

I might look into getting some of those slotted movement trays when I feel like playing 8th edition as well.

 Bottle wrote:
I have millions of square bases because I keep buying WHFB kits for AoS :-p

I might look into getting some of those slotted movement trays when I feel like playing 8th edition as well.

Doesn't really matter since you can use whatever bases you like

http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

I wonder what terrain it could be?

 Janthkin wrote:
Turn down the level of snark in here by at least 75%, lest additional users suffer moderator...displeasure.

Yeah, I'd like to apologize for my tone and for basically violating the rule #1 of politeness. While I have my beliefs, I expressed them most inappropriately.

 Formosa wrote:

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

It's not as if there's a shortage of 20/25mm square bases - they are quite popular with historics, in GW style, flat plastic, resin, mdf.

Was just looking through the lizards on the site, have to say they all look way better on round bases Never was a fan of the look of squares in general

Looks like I can already do a Thunderbeast Host and a Shadowstrike Starhost (or 2?)

Wish they would let me have skinks with bows though :( Guess they’ll just have to keep counting as blowpipes

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

One of them still says "finecast" in the description. It was quite reasonably priced too :(

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

Two things of interest for me here, firstly new scenery but second what is there definition of "large battles". There was talk initially of a release of a rule pack for large battles, perhaps xmas will see the release of this pack.

The round bases do make the models look much better, imho. I am still torn on basing...I love the look of the rounds, but have absolutely no interest in AoS whatsoever. Warhammer fantasy was and still is one of my favorite games...and it really was/is an equal measure of fluff, models, and game mechanics that made the whole package appealing to me.

The problem with using your models on rounds in a traditional movement tray based Warhammer game is that there is no analog to the 20mm square base. I play mainly Skaven, but also have Dark Elves, Night Goblins, Empire, etc. Which are all predominately based on 20mm bases...which have a specific footprint in a 5-model frontage. How do you base these on rounds and still put them in the traditional 5-model rank, even with a custom movement tray with round 'slots'?

I think I'm going to have to stick to the squares, as I just don't see a practical solution for this. Which is a shame, especially considering the re-packaging of these models are not including them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

Ouch.

Big ouch.

Nice to get some real numbers amist all the speculation, obviously you're just one vendor but a major one and certainly one devoted to the miniature hobby.

Out of curiosity are any of the other games out there able to make up for the sales?

Yeah I can only imagine how this is for retailers. This switch means that Warhammer is going to have very low sales for sometime. It can only be hoped that the video games that are out/are coming will help with exposure and bring in either new fans or create more of a promotional buzz around Warhammer to help elevate it some what because ATM GW is riding a deflated air balloon and everyone else is along for the ride it seems.

I thought about rebasing.. and I may some day, but right now it's too big of a job since pretty much everything I play is a horde army.

but if you're looking for 20mm round bases, check out Proxie Models

http://www.proxiemodels.com/

They're a little thinner than GW's standard bases but they're cheap and good

I just feel I should correct a persistant misconception that keeps popping up. GW does NOT use forge world resin for any of their kits save for ONE. Smaug from the hobbit range. Spin casting and hand casted rubber moulding techniques are not compatible with the same materials.

The finecast problems had a whole lot to do with inexperience with the casting equipment, bad quality control and their initial material choice not behaving as they had hoped. While it is true that they DO appear to be using the same kind of resin forgeworld uses for it's horus heresy infantry sized models, this is NOT because GW started using forgeworld resin to cast their models. It's because forge world produces it's smaller scale infantry models using spin casting with the same equipment and resin gw uses for the stuff-formerly-known-as-finecast. Yes the material has been adjusted since the initial finecast debacle but it is mostly down to more experience, and better quality control that models tend to come out much better now.

You know those base adapters that people made to go from 25mm round base to 32mm round bases?
I feel like there is probably a market for ones that adapt a 20mm square base to a round one (would they fit into a 25mm round, or would it have to be 32mm?), that way you could still play both AoS and WHFB, assuming you didn't glue them into the adapter (magnets instead somehow?)


EDIT: these type of things: https://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=761

Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

 notprop wrote:
Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

Work blocked for me, are the 20mm bases the same height as the GW bases?

 notprop wrote:
Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

Or you could get this and make them yourself

 Kanluwen wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

I wonder what terrain it could be?

FFS we still don't even know if the Sigmar-y temple building on the table from the AoS launch thing is an actual kit or them bodging together an unaffordable wadge of parts from other kits. All this "knowing wink", NO GURLS ALLOUD kiddy clubhouse BS is just getting ludicrous now, they seem to be doing it just for the sake of it, like keeping things from their customers is a compulsive disorder.

 Fango wrote:
The round bases do make the models look much better, imho. I am still torn on basing...I love the look of the rounds, but have absolutely no interest in AoS whatsoever. Warhammer fantasy was and still is one of my favorite games...and it really was/is an equal measure of fluff, models, and game mechanics that made the whole package appealing to me.

The problem with using your models on rounds in a traditional movement tray based Warhammer game is that there is no analog to the 20mm square base. I play mainly Skaven, but also have Dark Elves, Night Goblins, Empire, etc. Which are all predominately based on 20mm bases...which have a specific footprint in a 5-model frontage. How do you base these on rounds and still put them in the traditional 5-model rank, even with a custom movement tray with round 'slots'?

I think I'm going to have to stick to the squares, as I just don't see a practical solution for this. Which is a shame, especially considering the re-packaging of these models are not including them.

Hi,

I'd like to share what I've been doing. I went to walmart and bought 33 20mm washers for about 3$, and began rebasing my dwarfs. This way, they fit in my movement trays perfectly, and actually rank up better than they did before! Would highly recommend anyone making the change to AoS, who also wants to continue playing WHFB or KoW to do the same.

So, Hastings on Warseer posted a pic of what's apparently a three headed mount for Archaon.



http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414414-Next-week-WD-hint-quot-Help-from-Azyr-quot&p=7562906&viewfull=1#post7562906

New mounted Archaon? Hmmmm.... Color me interested.

Plastic is always nice

hat-tip to the ever reliable Mr Hastings