Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm having my first game tonight, after work.

We settled on 60pts, because my opponent is rusty and this will be my first game. Thus, I decided to stay low on upgrades and whatnot.

I went with:
Gold Squadron Y-Wing
R2 Astromech

Red Suqadron X-Wing
R2 Astromech

Green Squadron A-Wing
Chaardan refit.

I think he has a max of 3 Ties at his disposable, 1 Tie Adv, 1 Tie bomber, the Lambda shuttle and a Tie Interceptor.

Could I be more efficient? I'm trying to limit myself to physical cards, as well. I want to get good at using what I have, and use missing upgrades as a road map for future purchases.

How did it go?

I got floored. It was a blast. I lost like a newborn kitten, but holy hell was it fun.

I need to focus my fire and move with a plan. My opponent hadn't played in 18 months, so we were both going a little bit everywhere.

I had another game last night, with another friend. I fielded a Y-wing, a B-Wing and a Z-95. My opponent fielded 4 TIE fighters. I got rid of one in relatively short order (focusing with the B & Y), but a mis-maneuver on my part got my fighters split up and then I could only scratch the paint. 3 evade dice are a really nice thing to have.

Again, got wiped off the board, but I'm learning, and my friend is super-excited to play.

All in all, I think I need to add things like astromechs, turrets and torps. The basic profiles just don't have enough punch to really impact a TIE bent on evading my hits.

Secondary weapons (well.. torpedoes mostly..) aren't all that and a bag of chips. Turrets and cannons are generally ok, and there's a handful of missiles, but they generally need a dedicated platform to recoup the investment or a remarkable synergy within a list.

It sounds like your initial experiences have coloured your thinking, but there's more hit results on a red die than evade results on a green, so, on balance, any ship throwing out 3 red v 3 green should come out on top. Well flown, your Bs and Xs will be throwing 4 red at those TIEs.

Equally, astromechs are somewhat hit and miss. R2 D2 is golden, and there's a few others, but many of them aren't really worth it just yet (FFG have a lovely habit of redressing the balance of under-employed upgrades as time goes by.)

That said, I wouldn't let what I read on the net stop me trying things out for myself, and neither should you, but while the balance of X Wing is generally excellent, there are some deeply underwhelming upgrade cards (and categories!) out there.

Some of them just don't talk to me, so I go by that. And since changing a list doesn't involve painting two whole squads of an army, it's really not a terrible thing to just try it out.

I saw a Y-wing build that I am dying to try:
Gold Squadron Pilot
Ion Turret
R3-A2
BT4L title card.

This might allow me to control my opponent's movement a bit.

Speaking of which... using Detemination, do I read it right that if it is a Pilot crit, you discard it... as in you don't even take the damage?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I saw a Y-wing build that I am dying to try:
Gold Squadron Pilot
Ion Turret
R3-A2
BT4L title card.

This might allow me to control my opponent's movement a bit.

That is known as the "Stress Hog." It's typically flown with thee B-wings w/Tactician. It's a control list that can both put out some considerable damage and throw a wrench in your opponent's plans with all the ion and stress.

Speaking of which... using Detemination, do I read it right that if it is a Pilot crit, you discard it... as in you don't even take the damage?

Yes, it is discarded immediately and does not count as damage.

Wow, ok. Not too powerful, but can really help.

I don't have the tactician card yet, so It'll have to only be a part of my list, not the whole list.

So... I may be addicted. My kinda jokingly challenged my wife to a game, since she said I looked like I needed a fix. She surprisingly said yes. I set her up with Luke Skywalker and R2-D2, and an A-wing prototype pilot. I took 2 Z-95 (a Binayre and N'Dru) and a Hired Gun Y-Wing.

So I figured I would fly in formation, N'Dru on his own to gain more dice. I had the hardest time killing the A-Wing, and by the time that was done, she had figured out the game and how to maximize Luke's dice and abilities and promptly got rid of my remaining ships. Luke had lost 2 shields, which he had time to regenerate.

She is a total non-gamer (her quote is "You have to start at *this is a dice* with me) and she picked it up in about 20 minutes.

Every person I've taught (probably three or four now) has only taken a few turns to grasp the mechanics, and by the end of their first game been actively playing and planning, rather than simply trying to figure things out.

It's one of the game's biggest strengths and reasons for its success IMO.

So... I may be addicted.

@ Mathieu,

hold on to your chair dude! I won a starter at Adepticon in May, and during the con i bought a second starter based on everyone's advice. Four months later I have at least two of every small ship and three or four of most, all the large base ships (two aggressor's of course), my wave seven ships are on order, and I picked up two of the new starters yesterday (sorry about the Target thing!). I also have three playing matts and enough dice and templates for three pairs of people to play at the same time!

Yeah, addicting

I knew it was a good game (ah!) when my wife actually stood up at her end of the table to start planning her moves, and then cried triumphantly when I chased her A-Wing "Yes! You took the bait!"

I cried of joy, a little, inside.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I knew it was a good game (ah!) when my wife actually stood up at her end of the table to start planning her moves, and then cried triumphantly when I chased her A-Wing "Yes! You took the bait!"

I cried of joy, a little, inside.

Great news... the question is: do you admit to making pew pew noises when shooting?

I do. But we make pew pew noises when watching Jeopardy so...

It's a fun game but careful not to bloat it too much. I'd say about 150pts is about the limit. I've been turned off a bit personally with the collectibility aspect and card bloat inherent to it but the core game is solid and fun.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:


So... I may be addicted.

Yeah... I know that feeling. I now own at least 1, mostly 2 or more, of every ship up to wave VII and epic ships.

I have a massive Plano tacklebox and I'm actually worried I'm going to have to get another one soon...

Yeah, on rebels advice, TIE fighters are one of the most efficient barebones fighters in the game. They're so good, they're considered the standard that all other ships are measured against for "Jousting efficiency" (literally just mathammer, the tourney players use it to determine whether the ship is good for tournament play or not) In order to beat his TIEs, you either need to out skill him (aces) or out joust him (B wings, maybe the new X Wing once its new Integrated Astromech comes out)

Y Wings are also awesome with Ion cannon turrets and the BTLA4 title. It makes them hit surprisingly hard and have a good control element. Most people use at least one with R3A2 (the stressbot, it's awesome) but I really like running either R2 mechs for Rebels, or Unhinged mechs for Scum. It gives the Y Wings a crazy amount of maneuverability that no one sees coming and lets them be surprisingly effective at dogfighting. Now that Twin Laser Turret is out too, it's pretty great for Y's as well, but I still feel that the BTL/Ion cannon combo is the best unless you're straight up running 3-4 of the little boogers.

I still haven't played a 100 pts game yet, so I still have a lot of room to grow. No one in my circle wants to play scum, so at least I have that all to myself.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I still haven't played a 100 pts game yet, so I still have a lot of room to grow. No one in my circle wants to play scum, so at least I have that all to myself.

Scum can be a lot of fun, but can have a hard learning curve. I recommend picking up Most wanted followed by the Slave 1 and Star Viper. Kath is the best of the best in Scum (IMO).

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I still haven't played a 100 pts game yet, so I still have a lot of room to grow. No one in my circle wants to play scum, so at least I have that all to myself.

Scum have the hardest learning curve, but are the most fun to play in my opinion once you start to figure them out. They really require a good understanding of the game so that you can make builds that screw your opponents over as much as possible. Their entire schtick is that they break the rules of the game, so naturally they're harder to pick up than most.

Make sure to try out in no particular order

All the scum hawks

Z95's with Feedback array

Z95s with dead man's switch

Y Wings with unhinged astromechs

Inertial Dampeners on anything (seriously that card is amazing)

A tooled up Boba Fett

Generally, for rebels:

B-wings are your best 'general purpose' fighter.

X-wings are slightly less efficient, but tend to make up for this with dirty tricks; named astromechs and named pilots are often better.

Y-wings have the toughness of a B-wing for cheap, but lack manouvrability. Always give them some sort of secondary weapon - normally a turret, but torpedos and bombs can work if you build the ship around them.

Z-95s are nice 'filler' - adding in an extra ship rather than 2-3 upgrade cards is not a bad choice, and the named pilots are great support for very few points.

Scum have become my favorite of the 3 factions because of the shenanigains they can pull.

 warboss wrote:
It's a fun game but careful not to bloat it too much. I'd say about 150pts is about the limit. I've been turned off a bit personally with the collectibility aspect and card bloat inherent to it but the core game is solid and fun.

Not counting epic, I feel 100pt games are the best. When you go too much more, things like flying well and a lucky roll here quickly become less important and who has the more of the better ships/pilots is the deciding factor.

locarno24 wrote:
Generally, for rebels:

B-wings are your best 'general purpose' fighter.

X-wings are slightly less efficient, but tend to make up for this with dirty tricks; named astromechs and named pilots are often better.

Y-wings have the toughness of a B-wing for cheap, but lack manouvrability. Always give them some sort of secondary weapon - normally a turret, but torpedos and bombs can work if you build the ship around them.

Z-95s are nice 'filler' - adding in an extra ship rather than 2-3 upgrade cards is not a bad choice, and the named pilots are great support for very few points.

Not that my 2 cents will really matter, but I'm a little confused about your descriptions.

How are B-wings general purpose? That's the X-wing. The B-wing is going to be your slow and steady firepower, the X-wing has more options as far as what to do with it. Y-wings have the toughness of B-wings but lack maneuverability. This implies B-wings have maneuverability. Which they don't. In fact, the B-wing has more red maneuvers than the Y-wing.

Not trying to be rude or anything, your descriptions just puzzled me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
It's a fun game but careful not to bloat it too much. I'd say about 150pts is about the limit. I've been turned off a bit personally with the collectibility aspect and card bloat inherent to it but the core game is solid and fun.

Oh the card bloat. It is real. I just bought 4 TIE Fighters yesterday, so yeah....it is real....

 krodarklorr wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Generally, for rebels:

B-wings are your best 'general purpose' fighter.

X-wings are slightly less efficient, but tend to make up for this with dirty tricks; named astromechs and named pilots are often better.

Y-wings have the toughness of a B-wing for cheap, but lack manouvrability. Always give them some sort of secondary weapon - normally a turret, but torpedos and bombs can work if you build the ship around them.

Z-95s are nice 'filler' - adding in an extra ship rather than 2-3 upgrade cards is not a bad choice, and the named pilots are great support for very few points.

Not that my 2 cents will really matter, but I'm a little confused about your descriptions.

How are B-wings general purpose? That's the X-wing. The B-wing is going to be your slow and steady firepower, the X-wing has more options as far as what to do with it. Y-wings have the toughness of B-wings but lack maneuverability. This implies B-wings have maneuverability. Which they don't. In fact, the B-wing has more red maneuvers than the Y-wing.

Not trying to be rude or anything, your descriptions just puzzled me.

They're general purpose because a Blue Squadron B-wing is the best 22 points in the game. In addition to the coveted 1 hard turn, B-wings also have barrel roll which is one of the best actions in the game. Those two things make it more mobile than the X-wing, but at the cost of actions. The X-wing is better at going straight and banking because of its freer dial, but it also has less shielding than the B-wing.

locarno24 wrote:
This implies B-wings have maneuverability. Which they don't. In fact, the B-wing has more red maneuvers than the Y-wing.

The B-Wing dial is deceptively good.

The key thing is that it has access to every speed 1 and speed 2 maneuver, along with the 2k and barrel roll, giving it unmatched low-speed agility (the Starviper is the only other small-base ship that can match it). Yes, it's got a lot of red - but among its slow maneuvers, only the hard 1 turns and the 2k are red, and it can recover it's stress fairly easily with green 1banks and 1straights.

X-Wings are able to do faster white maneuvers (in particular, it has access to all 2 and 3 speed maneuvers, and they're all white), but you have to think: how can you actually exploit that against B-Wings to get them into arc and take shots, while also staying out of the B-Wings' arcs and avoiding their incoming fire? Here's where the B-Wing's ability to do slow maneuvers is very advantageous - they have a much easier time simply doing 1-speed maneuvers and pointing their guns where they think the X-Wings will be. The X-Wings can't do slow re-positions - B-Wings can exploit their barrel rolls and hard turns to win that fight. The X-Wings can bounce in and out of a furball quicker (doing their 3 and 4 speed maneuvers), but that doesn't prevent the B-Wings from just slow turning in your general direction and taking pot shots (4-speed maneuvers don't get your out of range 3).

Add on to that good stats (3 attack dice, lots of shields, Sensor and Crew slots), and you got a super good generic ship.

This is a lot of theoryhammer on my part, but I do think it's borne out by tournament results. B-Wings (and B-Wing Swarms in particular) are a common and top-tier list. X-Wings are rare in competitive X-wing. If the X-Wing were 1 or 2 points cheaper, the opposite might be true - so the Integrated Astromech is a step in the right direction.

(On an unrelated note, Y-Wings are fairly agile with an R2 astromech. Without, they get screwed by the lack of any green bank maneuvers - it makes them very predicatble when they're stressed).

Yeah... Don't confuse SPEED with MANEUVERABILITY. X-wings have speed. B-Wings have maneuverability.
X-Wings have the closing speed and the ability to rocket out of combat for a turn and come back in. (Jousting in X-WIng Speak). Which is great for ordinance (if ordinance was better). X-Wings are perhaps 1 or 2 points too expensive for the dice they throw in combat since torpedoes specifically are still in such a rough place.
B-Wings is a close fighter... it can dance out of arcs and still shoot. They are perhaps 1 point too cheap based on their dice and dial.


The Integrated Astromech card will help give the X-Wing a nice durability boost (effectively giving them a free hull upgrade (3 points) provided they lose their astromech first. This puts them inline with the dice that they throw provided that you don't spend more than 2 points on the astromech. Under those conditions, it's really hard to say which ship is better... and that makes all the difference in the world!

I've been playing with lists, and until I need to play with Scum (Slave 1 only comes in later this week), I like the idea of anchoring a list with Nera Dantels (B-Wing) with a few cheap torpedoes that he/she can fire out of arc and a stress hog. I want to play rebels more than scum, but I know that if I give demos, people can more readily identify with the rebels.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

The Integrated Astromech card will help give the X-Wing a nice durability boost (effectively giving them a free hull upgrade (3 points) provided they lose their astromech first. This puts them inline with the dice that they throw provided that you don't spend more than 2 points on the astromech. Under those conditions, it's really hard to say which ship is better... and that makes all the difference in the world!

I think that the X-wing, with an Integrated R2 unit, is a rival for the B-wing. It can K-turn, then perform nearly any 1 or 2 speed maneuver, giving it a good advantage in a joust. The Integrated mech is closer to a shield than a hull point, because it shuts down crits. The fact it can be saved for a crit, when combined with the X-wings better agility, help even out the durability.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

The Integrated Astromech card will help give the X-Wing a nice durability boost (effectively giving them a free hull upgrade (3 points) provided they lose their astromech first. This puts them inline with the dice that they throw provided that you don't spend more than 2 points on the astromech. Under those conditions, it's really hard to say which ship is better... and that makes all the difference in the world!

I think that the X-wing, with an Integrated R2 unit, is a rival for the B-wing. It can K-turn, then perform nearly any 1 or 2 speed maneuver, giving it a good advantage in a joust. The Integrated mech is closer to a shield than a hull point, because it shuts down crits. The fact it can be saved for a crit, when combined with the X-wings better agility, help even out the durability.

Oh... oh! I misread the card! I thought that it read "First Damage" not may.... this makes me way more excited!

So... I worked an extra shift to give my wife a day off...

...and there was a Millenium Falcon waiting for me on my desk this evening. She just made me promise she could use it in our next game. I knew I married her for the right reasons.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So... I worked an extra shift to give my wife a day off...

...and there was a Millenium Falcon waiting for me on my desk this evening. She just made me promise she could use it in our next game. I knew I married her for the right reasons.

Does she have a single sister by any chance?

No, no sister.

So, I had my first 100 pts game last night. I tried a XXX lineup, just to stay safe. I also tried to make my ships as durable as possible.

Luke Skywalker
R2-D2
Shield Upgrade
Marksmanship

Jek Porkins
R5-D8
Hull Upgrade
Veteran Instincs

Tarn Mison
R2-D6
Lone Wolf
Flechette Torpedoes

So I set up Mison away from my other two ships, to benefit from Lone Wolf, and relatively clear of asteroids to make sure I can maneuver. He set up most of his force to bear down on Luke & Porkins. At the end of turn 2, I lost Luke to concentrated fire. By then, I was a bit miffed, but he was flying so close and kept forgetting the order of his activations that I felt I would have a bit of a chance. He kept bumping into asteroids, his own ships, he was stressing out... yet I couldn't roll a damn hit. I think I rolled less than 10 hit symbols all night long. His lambda mopped up Porkins, ridding him of his last shield and 4 hull points in one turn.

The worse part? He hadn't set up his squad before hand and just opened a few blisters, did some quick math and just plopped down stuff. I know that mathematically it is highly unlikely, but I swear there are more evade symbols than hits on those dice.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
No, no sister.

So, I had my first 100 pts game last night. I tried a XXX lineup, just to stay safe. I also tried to make my ships as durable as possible.

Luke Skywalker
R2-D2
Shield Upgrade
Marksmanship

Jek Porkins
R5-D8
Hull Upgrade
Veteran Instincs

Tarn Mison
R2-D6
Lone Wolf
Flechette Torpedoes

So I set up Mison away from my other two ships, to benefit from Lone Wolf, and relatively clear of asteroids to make sure I can maneuver. He set up most of his force to bear down on Luke & Porkins. At the end of turn 2, I lost Luke to concentrated fire. By then, I was a bit miffed, but he was flying so close and kept forgetting the order of his activations that I felt I would have a bit of a chance. He kept bumping into asteroids, his own ships, he was stressing out... yet I couldn't roll a damn hit. I think I rolled less than 10 hit symbols all night long. His lambda mopped up Porkins, ridding him of his last shield and 4 hull points in one turn.

The worse part? He hadn't set up his squad before hand and just opened a few blisters, did some quick math and just plopped down stuff. I know that mathematically it is highly unlikely, but I swear there are more evade symbols than hits on those dice.

Ouch. That's rough man. Sorry to hear that, but it happens sometimes. Me and my girlfriend got into the game at the same time, and our third game she borrowed a Tie Defender from another guy at our store. Neither of us were familiar with a Tie Defender, and it mopped the floor with me. I could've sworn that thing could outmaneuver anything, and never failed to roll enough Evades.

I also feel bad for my friend a few nights ago. I had Prince Xizor peform a Segnor's loop right out of Jake Farell's way, shoot him with 4 attack, rolled 4 Crits....yes, crits, and he failed to roll any evades. Luckily he had a shield upgrade, so was barely still alive.

But that's how it goes with Dice games.