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It's happened to units before, but I doubt it. These feel like solid numbers given the insanity of 7.5 combat.

I imagine this won't be able to be taken in the new tau Hunter cadres that will undoubtedly come out, so if the hunter cadres are competitive, you will never see this.

The big things to see in the new codex will be the new riptide variants, marker lights, and cadres. Then we'll all get to see if this is worth the large price tag or not.

I feel like a Draigo cent star will blow this off the board in a turn, (cannons, shriek(s), rending bolters in non-itc) but this will be one of those games where going first will be more important than going second, as Draigo and friends would be boned if one of those D markers landed on them, and hiding in reserves could screw you harder than risking the blast marker.

Why can't you take it? It's a LoW right? A simple CAD would be enough depending on costs.

It takes 30 grav wounds to kill one of these things: 30 wounds, 4++ saves half so 15 left, FNP saves 1/3 of those leaving 10 wounds dealt. At BS4, with amps and no buffs that's approximately 46 grav shots (assuming one of the re-rollable 2+ to wound fails). 9 centurions gives you 45 shots (plus 0.59 wounds/centurion if you have rending rapid-fire hurricanes); 8 Kataphron destroyers gives you 48 shots without amps. BS4 with prescience needs 35 shots (7 cents). Basically, you'll need another way to hurt it or accept that it will probably take 2 turns minimum to kill it.

So, at that point you need survivability. Invisibility is your best bet, but with the ITC nerf your centstar is probably still taking a 7" D-plate to the face. Shrouding in ruins gives you a 2++ cover save to mitigate that, but if markerlights ignore cover you're relying on Draigo's (or whoever's) 3++. A couple slightly better invul saves are a GK libby adding sanctuary (2++), the Armor Indomitus (2++ for one phase), or a libby with a storm shield fishing for precognition (re-rollable 3++). Even at BS1, the odds of completely missing a full-size centstar with a 7" template are pretty slim, and you will probably lose a couple guys to 6s on the D-weapon table.

In summary: it's not impossible to kill, and grav is probably the best weapon for it; but you need to be realistic when planning on how you're going to target this monstrosity.

If you are playing ITC, you don't get the rending bolters on T9 or proper invisibility, so you are going to want sanctuary and/or precog up front. They specified that the Eldar rending works, but plain rending doesn't for models who's toughness are high enough you can't wound it normally.

Forewarning, sanctuary, invisibility and a prayer to the god emperor he doesn't roll a 6, or if it does, you can pass it off to a centurion.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I'm not particularly knowledgeable on tyranid stuff, but aren't they supposed to be over-costed?

That was my impression too. I'm not saying this isn't undercosted, but comparing it to overcosted units to show how undercosted it is is disingenuous.

I must admit, I kinda' like this new super-duper-suit. My only problem is that it completely lacks any sort of finesse: it is a point-and-click unit that doesn't offer any synergy other than being a fire magnet. No Supporting Fire (whhhhhy?), no tricks, no nothing.

Also, its weapons don't fit its intended role: for a suit designed to hunt titans and such, it can only cause a single D hit and fire 6 not!lascannons or 10 not!multi-meltas. That's kinda 'meh' both against and in comparison to even a Warhound titan. Though, it can absolutely massacre blobs of "normal" units with that D blast, but that's not exactly why it exists according to its fluff.

If your playing ITC then you probably don't have to worry, its not going to make approved super heavies list

 Frozocrone wrote:
If your playing ITC then you probably don't have to worry, its not going to make approved super heavies list

I don't see why it wouldn't It's not shooting a hellstorm template

Looks like it's time to buy a Warhound Titan for my renegades to have a chance against tau now.

I don't know of any Tau players buying it in my area thankfully, but I do want to see it in action from across the table-top just to get a proper gauge of how good it is. It seems ridiculous for its points.

 Frozocrone wrote:

It's ludicrously undercosted

Or, better yet, the Tyranid stuff is ludicrously overcosted!

 Kepora wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

It's ludicrously undercosted

Or, better yet, the Tyranid stuff is ludicrously overcosted!

Por que no los dos?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Good statline, nice shield, cool overwatch ability, underwhelming firepower. Expected 3 S: D large blasts and blast firing modes for the arm weapons. melta one is too short-ranged and the ion one can be substituted by 4 riptides. And it's a GMC, while I'd rather a SHW.

A nice centerpiece, but could be better armed (and toned down a bit in its statline)

You have an utterly warped sense of power level.

First of all, the things firepower is quite fething high. You realize the thing has a massive blast right? As in 2nd circle of the big blue template.
And 3 Str8 AP3 large blasts with pinning and ignores cover is obviously nothing to sneeze at either.

I'll give it to you on the melta, it's probably never going to get picked, but how are the Ion cannons bad?
Your statement about the Riptides just shows how bad your grasp on this model's rules is. 4 riptides are close to 800 points, not 600. And even then, I don't even see how they substitute the Ion guns in any way shape or for? The thing's got better balistic skill, so obviously no 4 riptides with Ion accelerators do not substitute the Ion guns in any way shape or form.
Finally, the thing has got a massive amount more of sustainability than 4 riptides. Oh sure, 4 riptides have 20 wounds as opposed to the Ta'unar that has "only" got 10, but Riptides sure as hell ain't immune to every gun below strength 7 so unless you're facing an army almost entirely equipped with grav guns, you'll be taking A LOT less wounds.

In fact, one of the few armies capable of bringing it down would be those with Grav because god knows every player worth his army is not going to let anything get in close combat with it.

The bio titan is over costed by around 90 points, as is the barbed heirodule and the harridan. The guns are priced by games workshop at 165 each, whereas extrapolating points for them based on similar weapons profiles would put it at 120.

For the points difference you could make the biotitan bs4, upgrade the invuln save to a 3+, AND give it "it will not die". For the heirodule/ harridan I would just lower the points for it

I think that would just about solve the problem

Does this mean... I'll get games with my eldar again, because they aren't the most BS?

On a serious note though, apart from centurions, portal-scythes, and possibly something from admech no other armies really have a hard counter, I mean a imp-knight will rip it apart in melee, but how will it get there when fusion-hands fires ~10 melta shots at you?

And about the drop devastates, how do they fire after getting out of a drop pod, isn't a Grav cannon heavy?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Forgeworlds initial experimental rules tend to be pretty dumb, give it a few months and expect it to be toned down significantly.

No stamp, no experimental! Get ready for some pain!

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
Yeah I expect T to drop and/or points to increase when the actual book comes out. These rules were probably rushed just to get people playing it so they can hear the response.

If its on FWs site, its experimental, even if it doesn't say as such. FW is not beholden to the rules it publishes for free on its website. Hell, they're not even beholden to the rules they publish in their books considering how often they revise them.

No stamp, no experimental!

 Gamgee wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Let me fix the title for you...

It's going to mix things up a bit for sure... but who here is actually going to buy and field one?

Me.

One up!

I'm buying one just for the sake how awesome the model is. And obviously the rules are crazy good.

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

On a serious note though, apart from centurions, portal-scythes, and possibly something from admech no other armies really have a hard counter, I mean a imp-knight will rip it apart in melee, but how will it get there when fusion-hands fires ~10 melta shots at you?

A Warhound Scout Titan with double laser destructors will easily take out a Supremacy Armor while the Supremacy Armour won't be able to do much against the Warhound.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

On a serious note though, apart from centurions, portal-scythes, and possibly something from admech no other armies really have a hard counter, I mean a imp-knight will rip it apart in melee, but how will it get there when fusion-hands fires ~10 melta shots at you?

A Warhound Scout Titan with double laser destructors will easily take out a Supremacy Armor while the Supremacy Armour won't be able to do much against the Warhound.

Indeed, although the Warhound is more expensive.

But I suppose if you have a really really big board the Warhound has a range advantage.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

On a serious note though, apart from centurions, portal-scythes, and possibly something from admech no other armies really have a hard counter, I mean a imp-knight will rip it apart in melee, but how will it get there when fusion-hands fires ~10 melta shots at you?

A Warhound Scout Titan with double laser destructors will easily take out a Supremacy Armor while the Supremacy Armour won't be able to do much against the Warhound.

Kommisar Kel did the maths either on this or another thread.

It loses, but it puts up a good fight against the Warhound.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

On a serious note though, apart from centurions, portal-scythes, and possibly something from admech no other armies really have a hard counter, I mean a imp-knight will rip it apart in melee, but how will it get there when fusion-hands fires ~10 melta shots at you?

A Warhound Scout Titan with double laser destructors will easily take out a Supremacy Armor while the Supremacy Armour won't be able to do much against the Warhound.

Kommisar Kel did the maths either on this or another thread.

It loses, but it puts up a good fight against the Warhound.

The point still stands that the Warhound beats the Supremacy Suit with relative ease.

maybe at 1000 points

While the Warhound has Void Shields to absorb the first volley, the Suit does have a static invuln save.

Definite advantage Warhound, but the Suit can definitely lay some hurt down.

Of course if the Warhound can take full advantage of its range then the Suit just dies horribly.

 Grey Templar wrote:
While the Warhound has Void Shields to absorb the first volley, the Suit does have a static invuln save.

Definite advantage Warhound, but the Suit can definitely lay some hurt down.

Of course if the Warhound can take full advantage of its range then the Suit just dies horribly.

Also, the Taunar's 4++ goes away for a turn if even one "6" is rolled for a D weapon hit against it. So, if that Warhound's 4 shots get lucky enough to roll just two 6s in a turn...

And, as far as the presence or lack thereof of an "experimental stamp" on these rules as some have mentioned, Forgeworld's Downloads page does state:

On this page you will find various PDF files you can download completely free. Downloaded files can be stored on your computer for easy off-line reference or printed out on your printer. The many rules presented here are experimental rules, still under development, and are not the final version. Experimental rules will change over time before a final version is published.

Take that for what you will, given FW's usual non-committal responses to most things.

Yeah. Even if they don't say experimental, they aren't printed in a book so they aren't set in stone. I'd wager they'll change a bit in IA.

If I had to balance it, I would go with 800 points for T8 8 wounds.

Ill be fielding this with R'varna 'Bubblewrap' for cover saves
Then 'Bubblewrapping' the R'varna's with marker drones
Your move GravTurions
(i bet everyone is gonna mention drop-podding the centurions)
Expensive, But sure effective

How does it have fnp? I see the 4++ vrs shooting, but it's special rules only indicate it's weapons and special shoeld vrs d attacks. Nothing about fnp and no "upgrades" or hard points for wargear.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not getting fnp

 DarthSpader wrote:
How does it have fnp? I see the 4++ vrs shooting, but it's special rules only indicate it's weapons and special shoeld vrs d attacks. Nothing about fnp and no "upgrades" or hard points for wargear.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not getting fnp

Gargantuan Creatures have FnP by default.