Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I've always thought that Imperial Knights are pretty cool. However, I've never really ran them competitively. I've ran them before, but only in practice games (and believe it or not, I actually have a losing record with them!).
In any case, this type of list isn't meant for casual play. It is meant to be a competitive army and I am considering taking it to the next tournament I go to. I have up to 4 knights now, including 3 regular knights and 1 Forgeworld Cerastus Lancer. I am either considering a 3-knight Adamantine Lance or a 4-knight Baronial Court. Now my question is this. What type of supporting units do you think I should surround my Knights with? What army/units go well with a Knight army (either with a 3-knight or 4-knight army). Armies/detachments that I'm considering include Space Marines, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Necrons, Eldar and Assassins. I've also got Chaos Space Marines and/or Daemonkin but can't remember off the top of my head whether they are Come the Apocalypse allies or not.
Also, keep in mind the following restrictions:
1850
3 detachments maximum
No Come the Apocalypse allies
Now I know such an army won't be completely balanced, but I'd also like it to have some mobility so that I can play to the objectives as well. Thanks for the suggestions/input/sample lists in advance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 17:42:00
Suggestion:
Bring Kleenex tissues for your opponent (at least if it were me.)
Serious Suggestion:
I'd look to the Officio Assasinorum to fill in tactical holes in your list. Maybe a Callidus to get first blood, probably on the Warlord for an extra VP too (or the shredding of a unit that could threaten your Knights).
Input: I'd throw in a Callidus or two. Go for the Warlord and nab 3 VP turn 1 (hopefully).
Other than that, looks scary! My friend brings only one Knight but it's a damn monster. I wouldn't like to face your army (or rather, I would like to face it but I wouldn't be facing it for long!)
It would help if we knew what points limit you were intended to play at, as that will effect what can go into the list.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
+1 WS/BS to the Baron (nominate 1 unit as the Baron, he is a Char and re-rolls hits in a challenge, can buy Heirloom)
+1 to Ion Shield in the Front
Knights have Counter-attack and can fire Overwatch if within certain distance of the Baron.
jeffersonian000 wrote: It would help if we knew what points limit you were intended to play at, as that will effect what can go into the list.
SJ
Sorry. Standard tournament size is 1850. I will add that to the opening post.
Otto Weston wrote: Suggestion:
Bring Kleenex tissues for your opponent (at least if it were me.)
Serious Suggestion:
I'd look to the Officio Assasinorum to fill in tactical holes in your list. Maybe a Callidus to get first blood, probably on the Warlord for an extra VP too (or the shredding of a unit that could threaten your Knights).
Input: I'd throw in a Callidus or two. Go for the Warlord and nab 3 VP turn 1 (hopefully).
Other than that, looks scary! My friend brings only one Knight but it's a damn monster. I wouldn't like to face your army (or rather, I would like to face it but I wouldn't be facing it for long!)
I like that. I really like the Culexus in my list and with 3 detachments, I think I can probably fit him in there.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/06 17:43:06
wuestenfux wrote: I'd add numbers to the list.
My suggestion is Tactical Marines in pods or rhinos.
I take it then you would prefer the 3-knight Adlance build with MSU marines? Hmmm....I wonder if I can actually fit a Battle Company in there along with 3 knights.
Anyone know what is the cost of a minimal, barebones Battle Company?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/06 18:00:45
wuestenfux wrote: I'd add numbers to the list.
My suggestion is Tactical Marines in pods or rhinos.
I take it then you would prefer the 3-knight Adlance build with MSU marines? Hmmm....I wonder if I can actually fit a Battle Company in there along with 3 knights.
Anyone know what is the cost of a minimal, barebones Battle Company?
985 if you use 2 single attack bikes instead of ASM squads and minimal scouts as the aux formation, also no wargear anywhere. I don't have the DA codex, but I'm under the impression that they can cut that down by 110 more points because their scout auxiliary only requires 1 unit instead of 3.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 18:04:36
niv-mizzet wrote: I saw a list at a recent ITC event do really well with 4 Knights + a small eldar CAD for obsec bike minimal unit spam, so that's a thing.
That's a good idea and I've actually tried that before (but it turns out my list was ITC illegal because I included a wraithknight in it). Scatbikes are definitely something I can build on.
wuestenfux wrote: I'd add numbers to the list.
My suggestion is Tactical Marines in pods or rhinos.
I take it then you would prefer the 3-knight Adlance build with MSU marines? Hmmm....I wonder if I can actually fit a Battle Company in there along with 3 knights.
Anyone know what is the cost of a minimal, barebones Battle Company?
985 if you use 2 single attack bikes instead of ASM squads and minimal scouts as the aux formation, also no wargear anywhere. I don't have the DA codex, but I'm under the impression that they can cut that down by 110 more points because their scout auxiliary only requires 1 unit instead of 3.
Thanks for the response. So in other words, it can't be done, at least not at 1850 (with 3 knights taking up 1110 minimum). Oh well, back to the drawing board.
What about Raptors Tactics? Lias Issodon still seems to me like an Alpha Strike worth mentioning to atleast take some points off something medium, (Some TOs might allow him to hit Gargantuans and Superheavies but RAW they are not included in the ability) and Raptors make some really good and survivable Scouts. At most, throw in a Command Squad of Melta or Sternguard with him equipped to kill Hordes.
Some basic Scouts should be a good option against a lot of Alpha Strike. Playing against Skyhammer and Grav Cents made me friggin love Shrouded out of a Venomthrope, and the Raptors all get it Turn 1.
Dozer Blades wrote: Check out the Long War batrep in the Battle Reports forum.
That was are really good batrep, and those conversions were awesome! Definitely bringing the hobby back.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
Quick question, your knights built already or magnetised? I think the biggest knight problem is AA, I like the idea of some skitarii with 3 onagers, depending on your locals 1 or 2 set up as AA, or could do the ironstrider cavalier for some walking spam haha.
I had thought of running a Coteaz attachment to help counter melta alpha strikes. Give him plasma cannon servitors and henchmen with plasma guns and you will ruin any deepstrikers that get near!
My second choice was running a mounted scout formation. This would mess up any deep strike scatters significantly.
SharkoutofWata wrote: What about Raptors Tactics? Lias Issodon still seems to me like an Alpha Strike worth mentioning to atleast take some points off something medium, (Some TOs might allow him to hit Gargantuans and Superheavies but RAW they are not included in the ability) and Raptors make some really good and survivable Scouts. At most, throw in a Command Squad of Melta or Sternguard with him equipped to kill Hordes.
Some basic Scouts should be a good option against a lot of Alpha Strike. Playing against Skyhammer and Grav Cents made me friggin love Shrouded out of a Venomthrope, and the Raptors all get it Turn 1.
A knight army isn't actually an Alpha-strike army. That is because Knights have poor shooting and it'll take them at least 2 turns to get into combat. Thus, any scouts that you infiltrate will be left unsupported by the majority of the army (1100+ pts of knights), at least initially. Now does that mean scouts aren't a good fit for this army? No. They can work with this army. The way I see them contributing is by staying in Reserves and then coming in to grab objectives (usually, I put my scouts in Land Speeder Storms for the extra mobility), but that is more my preference than anything else. To me, their survivability is more important than the offense they provide, but there are occasions where I have started them on the table to help contribute to my offense. However, in most cases, they are more likely to give up First Blood this way than to get it.
Dozer Blades wrote: Check out the Long War batrep in the Battle Reports forum.
Ok, I will.
LucidNinja wrote: Quick question, your knights built already or magnetised? I think the biggest knight problem is AA, I like the idea of some skitarii with 3 onagers, depending on your locals 1 or 2 set up as AA, or could do the ironstrider cavalier for some walking spam haha.
One is magnetized. The other 2 are set. Personally, I think the Icarus Autocannons are over-priced. 30+ pts for only 2 Skyfire shots is laughable in my books. I could consider Skitarii, but I don't own any of the models nor am I looking to add a 10th army to my collection.
When it comes to flyers, I'm probably going to either 1) ignore them or 2) eventually get a Fire Raptor.
Jackal wrote: Anything stopping you running a 5 knight list?
Makes a nasty impact but S is a real bitch.
The lack of a 5th knight currently.
Eventually I might get one (I want to add the Acheron to my collection), but I also don't really want to run a 5-Knight army because I don't think those play well to objectives-based missions. I prefer a small detachment with my Knight army to go after objectives while the Knights provide most of the offense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Filch wrote: 2 Wraithknights with ghost glaive and sun shield will destroy 5 Imperial Knights in close combat.
There are actually tools that can give Knights an advantage against Wraithknights:
1) Park your knight in terrain and let the Wraithknight charge you.
2) If you run Land Speeder Storms (i.e. a Scout-based detachment), they can fire blasts that cause Blind tests.
3) The Lancer has a shooting attack that is Concussive, meaning if I hurt the WK with it, he will be striking at Init 1. BTW, the Lancer also has a 5++ Invuln in CC and strikes at I5 on the turn he charges so he isn't as easy to take out in CC as the other knights.
raddman33 wrote: I had thought of running a Coteaz attachment to help counter melta alpha strikes. Give him plasma cannon servitors and henchmen with plasma guns and you will ruin any deepstrikers that get near!
My second choice was running a mounted scout formation. This would mess up any deep strike scatters significantly.
I'm actually not to concerned about deepstriking armies. I really don't see many melta-heavy deepstriking units anymore. Rather, in competitive play, it's either Battle Company in pods or deep-striking Grav which can easily stay outside of Coteaz's range. Also, I don't like the fact that Coteaz's unit is not very mobile. Move and they can't fire those plasma cannons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/07 05:11:24
Should be about 100 points left for customisation on Riptide support systems and /or knights carapace weapons. Marker drones on the 'sides are also an option.
Interceptor takes care of drop melta/grav, knights keep killy combat stuff away from the shooty Firebase, hymp deals nicely with flyers.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
I as well have a 1850 ITC tourney coming up, and weighed my options for the allies with the three Knights. In the end I choose Legion of the damned. My list will have a knight paladin with a storm rocket pod, a crusader with the battle cannon and rocket pod, and a Acheron. Along with the Knights I will have three units of legion of the damned, all 6 men squads with a melta, multi melta, and combo grav. I choose to just straight out ignore flyers as the only flyers you generally see in my meta are flyrants and storm talons, both which are generally ineffective verse Knights. Through play testing so far, I did really well against a dual battle company, although I did end up loosing by one point, and then I faced the terminator formation from the sm codex, along with a librarian conclave. I knew this would be an up hill battle, and not only that but my rolling was horrible (1 out of 6 melta hits 2nd turn with my lotd, 5 armour saves = 5 1s and 2s). The end of that game didn't end so well, but I think with statistical rolling I could have fared a lot better. In the end more play testing is needed, but I do quite enjoy with the lotd add to the list.
Drasius wrote: Ad Lance plus tau Firebase support cadre.
Should be about 100 points left for customisation on Riptide support systems and /or knights carapace weapons. Marker drones on the 'sides are also an option.
Interceptor takes care of drop melta/grav, knights keep killy combat stuff away from the shooty Firebase, hymp deals nicely with flyers.
Ah....the FBC. Never hurts to add that formation to almost any army. The only downside to it is that it lacks mobility and so isn't as good in objectives-based missions as more mobile support choices.
Now if only I had the units for this formation....
LucidNinja wrote: How are the 2 set? What loadouts can you do? 3 crusaders can benefit from cc support, 3 gallants need extra guns...
One is magnetized between Paland/Errant. One is Paladin and one is Warden. I'm looking at the Baronial Court because it doesn't tie me down/limit me to specific equipments.
oldzoggy wrote: Imperial knight + Eldar jet bikes or tau fire support...
This makes me sad. Just look for tournament top player lists with lots of knights in them instead of asking us what would be an interesting choice.
Honestly, the top tournament players don't really run knights. Well, they used to, but that was before Adepticon & Nova banned the Adlance formation.
Gangrel767 wrote: This is a list I want to try... not sure if it is tournament ready, but it has been stewing in my mind and is actually a fluff list for me.
Just a big wolf star with knights.. simple straight forward... and brutal.
I like it! I actually thought about running something very similar, only swap out the Wolf Priest for a WG Battle Leader and the TWC to a unit of Fenrisian Wolves (makes the unit more survivable to Grav weaponry). I think it is quite a scary build.
Oh yeah! The Aspect Host. Now that's what I'm talking about.
Scouts + Storms are great, though I'm actually leaning more towards Ravenwing Land Speeders for their re-rollable jink saves. Though I then lost ObSec. So re-rollable cover or ObSec, hmmmm.....
Eldar scatbikes is definitely something to consider. They go well with any army.
If I do a bike army, it'll most likely be Ravenwing over White Scars. Those darn RW bikes are just soooo survivable.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/08 16:42:58
Crusade wrote: Good point about DA bikes with that re roll jink.
I guess I was just thinking Hit & Run might out weigh that if it comes down to needing objective grabbers to compliment the Knights.
Ravenwing has H-&-R as well. They've got all the good stuff....H-&-R, re-rollable cover that can be buffed to 2+ re-rollable, Scout, Stubborn, BS2 Overwatch....I mean, my God! They only thing they lack is ObSec.
That's a trade-off I'm really going to have to consider. The SM Chapter Master is good. Then again, so is Ravenwing. However, the problem is that RW builds cannot take a Chapter Master (or Company Master) on a bike. So it's either Chapter Master w/White Scars (or maybe even Iron Hands) or Ravenwing. Hmmmm.....
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
20000+ points
