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I think if you're running Imperial Fists, missile Launchers are a very viable option as Tank Hunters give them a good chance to hurt vehicles.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I think if you're running Imperial Fists, missile Launchers are a very viable option as Tank Hunters give them a good chance to hurt vehicles.

Maybe. But I really hesitate to bring a heavy support unit that can neither a) engage hordes or b) crack 2+ armor.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I think if you're running Imperial Fists, missile Launchers are a very viable option as Tank Hunters give them a good chance to hurt vehicles.

He's not using Imperial Fists though.

For hordes do you all prefer heavy bolters or plasma cannons?

Exalbaru wrote:
For hordes do you all prefer heavy bolters or plasma cannons?

TFCs and Whirlwinds. Both have built-in ignores cover. The only devastators I'd even entertain are 4Xlascannon or 4Xgrav.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
4x missile launchers. Give them flakk.

It's a massive headache for an opponent if they have flyers. Especially if you have a cheap prescience libby with them. Even if your opponent doesn't have flyers, missile launchers are so flexible being able to take out light to medium armour and hordes with their blasts.

I think missile launchers are hugely underrated. If your opponent does have flyers, watch him waste a turn of shooting trying to focus them down in turn 1. Keeping them in cover or behind an aegis defence line is crucial.

That set up all told costs more than a fire raptor, which could easily eat it in one turn, then pivot and start devouring the rest of your army


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Martel732 wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
For hordes do you all prefer heavy bolters or plasma cannons?

TFCs and Whirlwinds. Both have built-in ignores cover. The only devastators I'd even entertain are 4Xlascannon or 4Xgrav.

What this guy said. Whirlwinds are crazy cheap, also. Like cheap as an unupgraded combat squad of tacs

I run 3ML and 1LC, and run a libby near by. I'll typically confer the signum to the the LC.

Martel732 wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
For hordes do you all prefer heavy bolters or plasma cannons?

TFCs and Whirlwinds. Both have built-in ignores cover. The only devastators I'd even entertain are 4Xlascannon or 4Xgrav.

Valid, I don't have access to TFC in any of my armies, but I really do love whirlwinds. Plus nobody ever is expecting you to pull one out.

I'm a fan of either 4x missile launchers or 4x lascannons

Exalbaru wrote:
For hordes do you all prefer heavy bolters or plasma cannons?

My PCs tend to disappoint me all the time. HBs, while overall a little lackluster, do have the duel advantages of costing peanuts and looking cool. So given the choice between them, the bolters win out.

But as others have pointed out, if you are using a HS slot and need anti-horde firepower, there are much better options. For the cost of a HB dev squad you can have a pair of WWs. WWs are basically HB’ing everything under a large blast, so a pair of them is going to do more damage for the most part.

Keeping the same guns in a Dev squad is primary. Really, any combinations will work but here's my thoughts:

Plasma Cannons: good for anti-horde/Termie killers, but can get pricey and no snapshots.

Missile Launchers: really good for anything.

Lascannons: long range AP2 and tank hunters.

Grav Cannons: can get pricey, but really good all around. Devs kind of get beat out by Grav Centurions/Grav Attack Bikes, but still good.

Heavy Bolters: meh, not bad, but overcosted for their points. Really good if you have Iron Fists for re-rolling 1's.

Multi Melta: best in Drop Pods and especially good in the Skyhammer formation.

Some chapter tactics can make some of the options better.

MM- are great in drop pods, esp. skyhammer [as many have said]

Heavy bolters- are not terrible, they are pretty much the worst option however. I wish they would make heavy bolters 36" salvo 4/6 or something..but that's a different matter.

Grav- Grav is amazing in every department except range. Devs don't have relentless normally or slow and purposeful so 24" salvo 3/5 is rough- although you can drop pod them in and get results where as most other things your snap shotting.

Missile launcher- I think this is the best all rounder for non skyhammer non drop pod devs. You can do anti infantry, you can do anti tank, you can do anti flyer from 48" Some people dislike missiles because AP3 and no melta, but with the ongoing shift away from armor save 2 models (most new MCs and GCs do not have armor save 2, few teq models are usually on a table) missiles are a lot better than people give credit for.

blaktoof wrote:
Some chapter tactics can make some of the options better.

MM- are great in drop pods, esp. skyhammer [as many have said]

Heavy bolters- are not terrible, they are pretty much the worst option however. I wish they would make heavy bolters 36" salvo 4/6 or something..but that's a different matter.

Grav- Grav is amazing in every department except range. Devs don't have relentless normally or slow and purposeful so 24" salvo 3/5 is rough- although you can drop pod them in and get results where as most other things your snap shotting.

Missile launcher- I think this is the best all rounder for non skyhammer non drop pod devs. You can do anti infantry, you can do anti tank, you can do anti flyer from 48" Some people dislike missiles because AP3 and no melta, but with the ongoing shift away from armor save 2 models (most new MCs and GCs do not have armor save 2, few teq models are usually on a table) missiles are a lot better than people give credit for.

Agreed on all points. I also think Grav Centurions/Grav Attack bikes are better than Grav Devs by far.

Why does anyone think the missile launcher is good at all? It fails at every task assigned to it.

Martel732 wrote:
Why does anyone think the missile launcher is good at all? It fails at every task assigned to it.

How? It's 10 points for a S8 AP3 48" range or a S4 AP5 Blast at 48". Sure, it's not amazing, but that's a pretty damn good default weapon.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why does anyone think the missile launcher is good at all? It fails at every task assigned to it.

How? It's 10 points for a S8 AP3 48" range or a S4 AP5 Blast at 48". Sure, it's not amazing, but that's a pretty damn good default weapon.

It'd be good if it was 10pts, but at 15pts its subpar at best.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why does anyone think the missile launcher is good at all? It fails at every task assigned to it.

How? It's 10 points for a S8 AP3 48" range or a S4 AP5 Blast at 48". Sure, it's not amazing, but that's a pretty damn good default weapon.

It'd be good if it was 10pts, but at 15pts its subpar at best.

Ah right, sorry, 15. Still, I think it's not bad for what it does (looking at you Heavy Bolter)

It is bad, because it does very little. The AP 3 kills the versatility of the krak missile, and small blasts are awful in general. I wouldn't pay 5 pts for it, because it's still a wasted heavy slot and the cost to field the meq to carry it.

"Sure, it's not amazing, but that's a pretty damn good default weapon."

No, it's actually awful. Quit thinking like an Imperial. Compare this thing to a scatterlaser.

Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Plasma Cannons are the best weapon per point when you hit 2 models or more with the blast. Otherwise, take the meltas.

remember that 2 can shoot from a Rhino, so you can do a rhino, 5 guys, 2 of them with Plasma or melta for decently cheap. Or Grav, since 2 of them isn't as crazy of an investment as 4. 4Grav dev squads are worthless (unless skyhammer, but still, just no)

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Which is why you generally don't take dev squads.

God, if I'm hearing the word "Scatterlaser" again I'm gonna puke.

Go play Eldar if you want those fething lasers.
No, marines don't have scatterlasers, 3+/4++/4+++, D weapons, 18"+ movement every turn or any shenanigan Tau will come up with.

Please, every thread i read degenerates in "But it's not scatterlaser!!11!!1!".

Yes, they are broken, no marines don't have it.

Not everyone plays cuttthroat games, someone plays under-efficient units (like devs) because -gasp- they like it!
Or maybe the meta is so different/casual they actually work.
Plus as specified in OT he wants a FUN AND CASUAL LIST. he won't (hopefully) play agains AdLance, GravStars, Superfriends, Decuricrons, 5 Flyrants, Scatterbike spam and other gak 40k is practically full of.
Don't try to "ruin" everyone's view of the game because not everyone plays at the top tables of a tournament. Some pro-tips are reeeeally good, i admit, but we should try to tone down all this OP-nonsense that's around.

After all we need at least a friend to play this game.

P.S.
For my Imperial Fists I go with 4 Lascannons, or 10 men with 4 LC to split them up.

I've definitely changed my mind on missile launchers now everyone has pointed out they are only AP3. After all, most armies I face these days are composed entirely of 2+ saves...

Wait.

2+ COVER save :p


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Usually I play devs to do part of my anti tank, so lascannons, with their higher strength and lower ap they can 'splode something.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Which is why you generally don't take dev squads.

Zodfrey wrote:
Do you have any favorite compositions for a squad of Devastators?

The question is what to take on devs, not whether to take them.

If you (collectively) really must so strongly suggest scatter lasers, perhaps suggest just take regular bolt guns on the devastator squads and used the points spared from heavy weapons for some scatterbike allies, but I think we both know that isn't the kind of answer the OP is looking for!

3 missile launchers.

For gins, 10 man squad with 2 plasma cannons and 2 lascannons and combat squad them! Yay, expensive as hell unit!

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Irrelevant to the efficacy of the missile launcher compared to the field.


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 Lammikkovalas wrote:

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Which is why you generally don't take dev squads.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!


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 mathaius90 wrote:
God, if I'm hearing the word "Scatterlaser" again I'm gonna puke.

Go play Eldar if you want those fething lasers.
No, marines don't have scatterlasers, 3+/4++/4+++, D weapons, 18"+ movement every turn or any shenanigan Tau will come up with.

Please, every thread i read degenerates in "But it's not scatterlaser!!11!!1!".

Yes, they are broken, no marines don't have it.

Not everyone plays cuttthroat games, someone plays under-efficient units (like devs) because -gasp- they like it!
Or maybe the meta is so different/casual they actually work.
Plus as specified in OT he wants a FUN AND CASUAL LIST. he won't (hopefully) play agains AdLance, GravStars, Superfriends, Decuricrons, 5 Flyrants, Scatterbike spam and other gak 40k is practically full of.
Don't try to "ruin" everyone's view of the game because not everyone plays at the top tables of a tournament. Some pro-tips are reeeeally good, i admit, but we should try to tone down all this OP-nonsense that's around.

After all we need at least a friend to play this game.

P.S.
For my Imperial Fists I go with 4 Lascannons, or 10 men with 4 LC to split them up.

Pardon me for wanting a heavy weapon that actually is worth a feth. Imperial heavy weapons suck. Except grav.

"Please, every thread i read degenerates in "But it's not scatterlaser!!11!!1!". "

Because that weapon sets the bar for other weapons in the game. Whether casual players want to admit it or not. It's a mathematical reality.

Martel732 wrote:

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Irrelevant to the efficacy of the missile launcher compared to the field.


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 Lammikkovalas wrote:

nareik wrote:
Dev squads can't take scatter lasers.

Which is why you generally don't take dev squads.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mathaius90 wrote:
God, if I'm hearing the word "Scatterlaser" again I'm gonna puke.

Go play Eldar if you want those fething lasers.
No, marines don't have scatterlasers, 3+/4++/4+++, D weapons, 18"+ movement every turn or any shenanigan Tau will come up with.

Please, every thread i read degenerates in "But it's not scatterlaser!!11!!1!".

Yes, they are broken, no marines don't have it.

Not everyone plays cuttthroat games, someone plays under-efficient units (like devs) because -gasp- they like it!
Or maybe the meta is so different/casual they actually work.
Plus as specified in OT he wants a FUN AND CASUAL LIST. he won't (hopefully) play agains AdLance, GravStars, Superfriends, Decuricrons, 5 Flyrants, Scatterbike spam and other gak 40k is practically full of.
Don't try to "ruin" everyone's view of the game because not everyone plays at the top tables of a tournament. Some pro-tips are reeeeally good, i admit, but we should try to tone down all this OP-nonsense that's around.

After all we need at least a friend to play this game.

P.S.
For my Imperial Fists I go with 4 Lascannons, or 10 men with 4 LC to split them up.

Pardon me for wanting a heavy weapon that actually is worth a feth. Imperial heavy weapons suck. Except grav.

"Please, every thread i read degenerates in "But it's not scatterlaser!!11!!1!". "

Because that weapon sets the bar for other weapons in the game. Whether casual players want to admit it or not. It's a mathematical reality.

Martel, again, SM suck. Eldar are the only thing to play. Thank you very much. You say this in every thread.

Now how about some actual discussion relative to the OP?

Actually, the marines have some advantages relative to Eldar. Vanilla marines, SW, and DA, of course, not BA. But non-grav heavy weapon selection is not one of them.

I already said 4 X grav or 4 X lascannon and nothing else. No ML. No HB. No PC. Those weapons are all awful. I'm just giving a reason why. Even the lascannon is pretty meh. But 48" S9 AP 2 does have its uses.

The scatterlaser sums up everything that is broken about Eldar nicely. It's cheaper and better than everyone else's guns.

But will OP encounter them en masse?
Probably not, so your comparison does not have any sense to exist in this contest.
MTG example : if I play T2 i don't prepare (or for what matters compare other T2 cards) for Force Of Will or UWr Miracles deck, because those belong to another format, Legacy.

Bonus example:
Obviously I won't go to Motogp with a scooter.

Scatterlasers and eldar are Motogp.
Martel plays in Motogp.

OP runs in the local circuit with his friends, have beers after the race and pass an afternoon having fun.
OP DOES NOT NEED A MOTOGP BIKE.