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I have over 40k points of Chaos. I feel your pain. I recently started a Dark Angels force because I need a little change and won't mind winning once in awhile...
Now, I know CSM are bad... But as I build my Dark Angels I realized even more just how bad they are in comparison.

I have 2K Dark Angels, 3K Necrons, and , like I said, over 40k of chaos. I love Chaos and have fun playing th occasionally- but damn, they are frustratingly bad!!

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
I have over 40k points of Chaos.

New Chaos Codex confirmed!

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
I have over 40k points of Chaos.

New Chaos Codex confirmed!

It'll make that 40k points feel like 10k, so you'll give GW 30k points of money!

Or things get so undercosted that those 40k points only cost 10k.

CSM for 4ppm? Yes pl0x.

Your opponents better stock up on mass AP3/2/1, they're gonna need it!

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Or things get so undercosted that those 40k points only cost 10k.

FETH- I hope so!!

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Or things get so undercosted that those 40k points only cost 10k.

FETH- I hope so!!

Now now, don't be a cheesemonger!
That's the Eldar fanbase's job!

[Just in case anyone's offended, I am kidding]

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Or things get so undercosted that those 40k points only cost 10k.

FETH- I hope so!!

Now now, don't be a cheesemonger!
That's the Eldar fanbase's job!

[Just in case anyone's offended, I am kidding]

Nah, that was yesterday. Now it's the Tau fanbase's job!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Or things get so undercosted that those 40k points only cost 10k.

FETH- I hope so!!

Now now, don't be a cheesemonger!
That's the Eldar fanbase's job!

[Just in case anyone's offended, I am kidding]

Nah, that was yesterday. Now it's the Tau fanbase's job!

Tomorrow it'll be C:SM's job after reports of Tau victories over the smurfs prompts another codex

It's a hotly contested position!

Oh wow, I heard there was a salt party and I am not disappointed. I brought a grip of salt to share, but it seems like everyone brought enough for themselves. Now, who wants to snort some warp dust and cry on my shoulder?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
It's a hotly contested position!

Except by us it seems!

Though as evidenced in the 'Army Tiers' thread, there's still people out there who insist that Helldrakes, Oblist and wait for it... Chosen with special weapons are still gouda approved!

 greatbigtree wrote:
Upper Middle Teir

Any codex capable of a strong mono-build. Most non-top teir lists are incapable of fielding entire armies of units that are effective regardless of T / AV. Most armies aren't able to "nearly" guarantee a save for every unit with Jink, RP, or Invuls. No GLARING weaknesses, other than not being Top-Teir.

Chaos Marines - Although suffering from not being Vanilla, are mid-teir thanks to monobuild Helldrake AP 3 "template spam", coupled with Oblits, Chosen, Spawn and a Fast Moving choppy HQ. This style of list can deny cover / MEQ saves, though still suffers from RP and Invuls. It also suffers against Mono-Knights, as it has trouble overcoming the Knights AV / Invul strength. Lowest mobility of MEQ, but has tools to deal with most opposing armies.

Never thought I'd see the day. Don't worry lads, the butt-ugly can't-fire-sideways chicken roaster will save us!

BAGAWK!

Oh yeah, those sweet sweet Chosen.

 Selym wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
Upper Middle Teir

Any codex capable of a strong mono-build. Most non-top teir lists are incapable of fielding entire armies of units that are effective regardless of T / AV. Most armies aren't able to "nearly" guarantee a save for every unit with Jink, RP, or Invuls. No GLARING weaknesses, other than not being Top-Teir.

Chaos Marines - Although suffering from not being Vanilla, are mid-teir thanks to monobuild Helldrake AP 3 "template spam", coupled with Oblits, Chosen, Spawn and a Fast Moving choppy HQ. This style of list can deny cover / MEQ saves, though still suffers from RP and Invuls. It also suffers against Mono-Knights, as it has trouble overcoming the Knights AV / Invul strength. Lowest mobility of MEQ, but has tools to deal with most opposing armies.

Never thought I'd see the day. Don't worry lads, the butt-ugly can't-fire-sideways chicken roaster will save us!

BAGAWK!

I really like the look of the death chicken :(

 Selym wrote:
CSM for 4ppm? Yes pl0x.

I demand 1ppm Space Marines if the traitors get something halfway decent.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Selym wrote:
CSM for 4ppm? Yes pl0x.

I demand 1ppm Space Marines if the traitors get something halfway decent.

Don't worry, we'll be 4pts/model sure, but with shiny NEW! Chaos Lasguns! (S2/ap +1/Gets Hot), and Warp Powered Armour! (save = D6, must re-roll all successful saves)

Oh, and because Chaos Marines don't know how to maintain any form of technology, our only special/heavy weapon option now will be a 'one use only' Bolter!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Selym wrote:
CSM for 4ppm? Yes pl0x.

I demand 1ppm Space Marines if the traitors get something halfway decent.

Don't worry, we'll be 4pts/model sure, but with shiny NEW! Chaos Lasguns! (S2/ap +1/Gets Hot), and Warp Powered Armour! (save = D6, must re-roll all successful saves)

Oh, and because Chaos Marines don't know how to maintain any form of technology, our only special/heavy weapon option now will be a 'one use only' Bolter!

Whoa, don't forget to roll a d6 to see if it jams! On a 6 it actually shoots.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Selym wrote:
CSM for 4ppm? Yes pl0x.

I demand 1ppm Space Marines if the traitors get something halfway decent.

Don't worry, we'll be 4pts/model sure, but with shiny NEW! Chaos Lasguns! (S2/ap +1/Gets Hot), and Warp Powered Armour! (save = D6, must re-roll all successful saves)

Oh, and because Chaos Marines don't know how to maintain any form of technology, our only special/heavy weapon option now will be a 'one use only' Bolter!

Whoa, don't forget to roll a d6 to see if it jams! On a 6 it actually shoots.

Oooooo that's right! And on a 1-5 it instead explodes catastrophically in the user's hands and inflicts an automatic Str.D hit on the entire unit!

Oh come now. You can fit at least 3 more charts in there.

When firing roll a D3 and consult the chart below.

1) Roll on the minor damage chart.

2) Roll on the major damage chart.

3) The weapon fires as normal.


Minor damage chart:

1) No significant damage.

2-5) 1D6+1 models (Randomly allocated) in the unit take S6 AP:- wounds.

6) 2D6+5 models (Randomly allocated) in the unit take S: D6 AP: 4 wounds. The unit is now soulblazed.

Major damage chart:

1)Consult the Minor damage chart.

2-5) 2D3+3 models in the unit suffer D6 wounds each (Randomly allocated) at S: D6+1 AP: D3. The unit is now soulblazed.

6) 6D3+6 models in the unit suffer D6+6 wounds each (Randomly allocated) at S: D AP3. The unit is now soublazed.

Probably. Chaos is fickle like that.

Helldrakes will remain as they are now, with the following changes:

Every time the Heldrake fires, it must roll a D6, on the following table:

1) Nothing
2) The Heldrake may only make snapshots (because its maneuvering, yo)
3) The Heldrake may only fire in a forward arc of 10*
4-6) Roll a D3, and take that number of penetrating hits on the Heldrake (because it cannot exist outside the warp for too long)

Eh got bored with my reply.

Here's to betting that we'll be either;

a) The last book of 7.5 edition but supposedly designed "with 8th in mind", and thus, we'll be the only army to not get a Decurion/Gladius styled organisation.
Of course, our codex will not work in either 7th or 8th edition, and we'll still be the only army in the game without any built-in synergies to play off of.

b) We'll be the first codex of the "new design" trend that's going to dial everything down to -10.
Of course, as happened in 4th ed, after another codex or two are released under this format, GW will realise that their sales are taking a massive hit thanks to blandhammer styled books, and then go right back to dialing everything back up to 11.

Would it be unreasonable if GW just took a copy of the 3.5 codex, reworked the legion rules a bit to resemble chapter tactics, added warlord traits, some relics, gave chaos a few new guns to compete with grav, and made some cult stuff cheaper and just re-released it?

I miss that codex :(

 Gunnvulcan wrote:
Would it be unreasonable if GW just took a copy of the 3.5 codex, reworked the legion rules a bit to resemble chapter tactics, added warlord traits, some relics, gave chaos a few new guns to compete with grav, and made some cult stuff cheaper and just re-released it?

I miss that codex :(

Yes.

They'll take all the good stuff, and leave all the bad.

Someone brought up mass cultists earlier in this thread. 2 max sized squads of MoK cultists pack a big punch, but also highlight exactly what's wrong with the Codex. Worst units have the best rules and vice versa.

I like everything that IA:13 gives us but hate the fact the Vanilla Codex is so bad. The Dinobots were supposed to be big improvements in the last Dex but they just don't get the job done. OTOH, give me a Fire Raptor and i can harass 3 units per turn.

Setting my expectations very low for next Dex.

You know, we could probably start a very nice salt mine in this thread.

Anyway, I do agree that the CSM book needs a lot of work. It needs to represent them as warriors who have experienced 10,000 years of nonstop warfare. Where did all the pre-heresy stuff go? CSM should still have that stuff in spades, as they took most of theirs with them. Where is all the warp-based tech? I say this as a non CSM player, they deserve all the cool pre-heresy stuff more than us Loyalists, as we can't seem to remember how to even build the frickin' things anymore.

With Formations essentially being just a way to give your army a bunch of special rules for FREE, it'd be great to see god formations in a CSM book.

Take a Nurgle formation and all your guys have +1 Toughness and/or Feel No Pain. Which STILL wouldn't put them on Necron Decurion level of durability and lethality.

A Tzeentch formation might give you +1 invuln saves and Re-roll Failed Psyker tests. Which STILL wouldn't put them on Grey Knights level of 2+ re-rollable Warp Charge generation (plus every unit is a psyker) and Sanctuary/Gate/CF spam.

Slaanesh could use his own formation to give everyone +1 Initiative and Fleet... easily the worst formation but cheaper to field than the other ones...

Lots of possibilities but what it comes down to is Marks of Chaos are something of an unnecessary tax at this point. They should just be rolled into formations built around those gods along with whatever other special rules are appropriate.