For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.

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**Acidian**

McNinja wrote:
Acidian wrote:
Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

Not sure about the tidewall, but I am sure about the stormsurge. From what I've heard, the people who have used them in games have found them to be incredible, nearly game-winning, units.

I am bringing one no matter what, since I love it's look, so I guess I will find out for myself. Only thing I wish is that they had learned from people doing missileside conversions that putting missile batteries on the back/shoulders with proper arms on the sides would be even more awsome, but I might try and convert this myself by using some riptide, wraith knight or imperial knight arms that I will have to ask around for.

**Vector Strike**

Vineheart01 wrote:Not like that matters.

Ovesa isnt easy to pick off since he is a riptide, and Stealthsuits are only easily removed up close and personal unless you face the oddball that actually brings hard counters to them (if they even have them available) Ghostkeels already force the stealthsuits to deploy near your deployment zone anyway since they dont have infiltrate (oddly enough)

Dont forget Ovesa has two drones he is required to take. So if somethind DOES actually pen his armor and threaten him, 2+ look out sir ftw.

On that note, i kinda wish they'd put a blip about IC's that are MCs can join squads of MCs. Then again i think thats pretty much a Tau benefit only so doubt that'd happen.

If O'Vesa Look out Sir such shots, he'll be forced a Leadership Test. Not a good idea.

Tyranids would benefit of ICs joining squads of MCs as well (Tyranid Prime. Not that any Tyranid player would do that, though

)

**Hawkeye888**

Acidian wrote:
Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

What are you wanting to run the contingent for? To unlock the auxiliaries? Or do you like the cadre and want to use that as a main. I'd go with min squads of troops, and then max out the crisis/riptide, throw in broadsides and stormsurge and your good. Or keep it cheap and get some auxiliaries in there.

**Vector Strike**

I have a question about the Infiltration Cadre:

Neutralisation Lattice:If a unit from this Formation inflicts three or more markerlight hits on a target unit in a Shooting phase, inflict a single seeker missile (pg 118) hit on the enemy unit in addition to placing the markerlight counters. Note that you do not need to roll to hit for the seeker missile, nor do you need to have a unit capable of firing the missile in range of the target (the missiles are fired by support craft flying high above the battlefield).

Does that mean that if 2 units inflict 3+ markerlights, 2 seeker missiles are shot? If is that so, I'd field full pathfinder units in there!

**Vash108**

McNinja wrote:
Acidian wrote:
Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

Not sure about the tidewall, but I am sure about the stormsurge. From what I've heard, the people who have used them in games have found them to be incredible, nearly game-winning, units.

I would have to concur with McNinja, I have heard this as well, even without the Str D missiles.

**Acidian**

Hawkeye888 wrote:

What are you wanting to run the contingent for? To unlock the auxiliaries? Or do you like the cadre and want to use that as a main. I'd go with min squads of troops, and then max out the crisis/riptide, throw in broadsides and stormsurge and your good. Or keep it cheap and get some auxiliaries in there.

Contingent is mostly to get the combine firepower effect, which is awesome combined with a buffmander in the mandatory Hunter Cadre. Optimised stealth cadre with +1 BS when 3+ units shoot together is also nice, in combination with the +1 already in the optimised stealth cadre. I would have added a Firebase support cadre as well, not that I think there is enough points for it, but might not be as needed anyway with a buffmander that can give the same bonuses. +1 BS is pretty nice on broadsides and riptide though.

**jakejackjake**

I just want to be clear if buffmander is in a unit of three crisis suits that consolidate fire at one unit with two other units of three crisis suits he can transfer ALL of his buffs that transfer to his unit to them AND they can still use target lock to shoot somewhere else and just have like a drone shoot at the same target?

If so I take back everything I said about this book and it could be stronger than eldar.

What has changed to make O'vesa playable?

**Jancoran**

Acidian wrote:
Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

well the Storm Surge looks good, but you have to protect it. Its like everything in the Tau codex: melts like buttah in melee. so just wrapping it up is all you really need do. Beasts and Cavalry can all do it, Fast skimmers can get you to the fight fast and so on.

I think if left to do what it does, the enemy will be sorry. But they will make an effort to silence the guns of Navarone. A mobile army is pretty important to have.

Dominion squads will also do a number on a StormSurge. They can be hitting it turn one with a lotta meltas.

Drop pod armies can hit it with Grav Guns as can Bikers with Grav Cannons etc...

I think it gives the Tau a way to say "Wraith Knight! Hey Wraith Knight! I got something for ya'!" It also gives them a rather expensive but ultimately good D weapon. I don't foresee using more than one StormSurge in most lists. three? insane. Way too easy to tie up and way terrible at melee. Stomp is their saving grace but then you can't drop your struts in place. So...

**jakejackjake**

SS actually melts more to AP2 fire than melee. You're never going to get into assault when the entire army, including the SS overwatches. Maybe if they make a huge mistake, but yeah wrapping it up is the solution for that so maybe we are saying the same thing

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

**Vector Strike**

jakejackjake wrote:
SS actually melts more to AP2 fire than melee. You're never going to get into assault when the entire army, including the SS overwatches. Maybe if they make a huge mistake, but yeah wrapping it up is the solution for that so maybe we are saying the same thing

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Stormsurge cannot overwatch

**Vash108**

Vector Strike wrote:
jakejackjake wrote:
SS actually melts more to AP2 fire than melee. You're never going to get into assault when the entire army, including the SS overwatches. Maybe if they make a huge mistake, but yeah wrapping it up is the solution for that so maybe we are saying the same thing

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Stormsurge cannot overwatch

You would hope everything around it with some EWO's would be able to protect it.

**Vineheart01**

Stormsurge getting charged should never happen unless youre already losing. It anchors behind your wall of firewarriors next to your broadsides and tanks and sits there the entire game.

Only way i'd see it getting charged before losing 2/3 of your forces is if someone b-lines to it. Which is a dumb idea to begin with because that means the rest of your army is in Supporting Fire range - Stormsurge cant overwatch, but he still triggers other units' Supporting Fire.

**Vash108**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Stormsurge getting charged should never happen unless youre already losing. It anchors behind your wall of firewarriors next to your broadsides and tanks and sits there the entire game.

Only way i'd see it getting charged before losing 2/3 of your forces is if someone b-lines to it. Which is a dumb idea to begin with because that means the rest of your army is in Supporting Fire range - Stormsurge cant overwatch, but he still triggers other units' Supporting Fire.

If he B-Lines and you have some DS coming he will leave most of his forces open as well. I don't really see it working out well, without some terrible rolls on the Tau's part.

**digital-animal**

What if the Stormsurge took the piece of wargear that allows units to Overwatch at BS2?

**Wolfnid420**

Probably wont be available to it.

**Vector Strike**

digital-animal wrote:
What if the Stormsurge took the piece of wargear that allows units to Overwatch at BS2?

The piece of wargear also says "rather than BS1". This implies you already had the possibility to Overwatch.

**Jancoran**

jakejackjake wrote:

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Umm... Nothing in the game eh? hehehe.

No idea what you're talking about here. yes. You can absolutely can bring a ton of melta turn one. I can shoot the Storm Surge with a whopping 30 Meltaguns in turn one and they ignore cover. Nothing is going to save it from my Adepta Sororitas.

Now you know.

**GoliothOnline**

The new tactica for Tau is that we get a moveable Terrain piece with a gun attached to it. Our game plan never changed, we simply got new units that dont fulfill any specific role.

Stand back, shoot and count the turns it takes for our opponents to either concede or until they're off the board.

Tau are still boring to play, and boring to play against. Wont be dusting mine off anytime soon.

**Hawkeye888**

If that's what you think then you should probably not dust them off. Yes you can play that way, but there are more aggressive ways to run them too.

**notredameguy10**

Jancoran wrote:
jakejackjake wrote:

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Umm... Nothing in the game eh? hehehe.

No idea what you're talking about here. yes. You can absolutely can bring a ton of melta turn one. I can shoot the Storm Surge with a whopping 30 Meltaguns in turn one and they ignore cover. Nothing is going to save it from my Adepta Sororitas.

Now you know.

I think he meant because EWO is all over the tau army that and Deepstriking/Drop-pod armies will be shot up

**GoliothOnline**

Why? More aggressive? This isnt 5th anymore. There is no aggression within the Tau dex. We as generals no longer have to make difficult decisions in determining what gets to be a road bump, nor do we have to determine where to move if we want to secure an objective, we simply do.

You may think Im being pessimistic against the Dex and faction as a whole, but the good days of the Tau dex as being a skillful army to play are gone, people need to realize this and stop living in such a mystical wonderland where an entire army can forgo an entire portion of the game simply because of units within the dex being grossly Overpowered and bumped to a degree that you no longer have to really think about playing them

Being that I also collect Eldar, CSM, Daemons and have just started collecting IG, my Eldar and Tau are forever, NEVER, going to be seeing the tabletop the way they are currently. You cant possibly begin to imagine how disgusted one feels in spending so much money on a faction only to have said faction that everyone used to love playing with and against, turn into a shitstorm because you want to have fun and win, competitively. No other dex's out there really compare to the amount of shooting these two dex's can dish out and it's true how you simply need to sit back, count the turns and wait for your opponent to disappear.

Ive seen the good, Ive played with the bad, Tau are no longer fun, these additions to their arsenal of bs wont make them any more interesting to play and sure wont get any of us Tau collectors any more games. So, in conclusion, once again, I stand by my decision to not bother with the new units nor dex due to how unfun they are to play with.

**digital-animal**

Vector Strike wrote:
digital-animal wrote:
What if the Stormsurge took the piece of wargear that allows units to Overwatch at BS2?

The piece of wargear also says "rather than BS1". This implies you already had the possibility to Overwatch.

Ahh fair enough. Makes sense.

**Orock**

Why would the buffmanders 3 crisis suit marker drones not contribute to the whole army combined firing rule? Is it because they shoot at the same time?

Seems like it should work. Also can darkstrider be in the formation? Even if he isn't anyone shooting at his target gets the benefit anyway right?

**Vector Strike**

notredameguy10 wrote:
I think he meant because EWO is all over the tau army that and Deepstriking/Drop-pod armies will be shot up

But EWO means nothing when the enemy is inside scouting Rhinos

Orock wrote:Why would the buffmanders 3 crisis suit marker drones not contribute to the whole army combined firing rule? Is it because they shoot at the same time?

A buffmander joined to a unit of crisis which bought marker drones are only 1 unit.

**Jancoran**

notredameguy10 wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
jakejackjake wrote:

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Umm... Nothing in the game eh? hehehe.

No idea what you're talking about here. yes. You can absolutely can bring a ton of melta turn one. I can shoot the Storm Surge with a whopping 30 Meltaguns in turn one and they ignore cover. Nothing is going to save it from my Adepta Sororitas.

Now you know.

I think he meant because EWO is all over the tau army that and Deepstriking/Drop-pod armies will be shot up

Except that I never said anything about a drop army in my post and he claims NOTHING IN 40k can do it. Lol. Just sayin.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Why? More aggressive? This isnt 5th anymore. There is no aggression within the Tau dex. We as generals no longer have to make difficult decisions in determining what gets to be a road bump, nor do we have to determine where to move if we want to secure an objective, we simply do.

You may think Im being pessimistic against the Dex and faction as a whole, but the good days of the Tau dex as being a skillful army to play are gone, people need to realize this and stop living in such a mystical wonderland where an entire army can forgo an entire portion of the game simply because of units within the dex being grossly Overpowered and bumped to a degree that you no longer have to really think about playing them

Being that I also collect Eldar, CSM, Daemons and have just started collecting IG, my Eldar and Tau are forever, NEVER, going to be seeing the tabletop the way they are currently. You cant possibly begin to imagine how disgusted one feels in spending so much money on a faction only to have said faction that everyone used to love playing with and against, turn into a shitstorm because you want to have fun and win, competitively. No other dex's out there really compare to the amount of shooting these two dex's can dish out and it's true how you simply need to sit back, count the turns and wait for your opponent to disappear.

Ive seen the good, Ive played with the bad, Tau are no longer fun, these additions to their arsenal of bs wont make them any more interesting to play and sure wont get any of us Tau collectors any more games. So, in conclusion, once again, I stand by my decision to not bother with the new units nor dex due to how unfun they are to play with.

I read this twice just to make sure I wasnt reading it wrong. I'm trying to reconcile what you typed with what I know and we're not matching up here.

What... exactly... do you mean when you say theres no aggression and you skip an entire phase of the game?

Tau shoot more than anyone because their BEST units cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag and they have no psyker defense nor phase.

Now I am a good Tau General whose played them since day 1. Mine play upfield and aggressively. There are some battle reports as examples on the blog.

So can you be really specific in what you're meaning? I dont think Tau are the push overs people "liked to play" and it pisses some players off not to get to roll through us like 3rd and 4th edition allowed. Our codex blew until 6e and that codex was really only broken by the TauDar combos more than anything else. PURE Tau forces were not often seen in 6th edition (i mainly played pure Tau but unless someone was FarSun bombing people, it was faaaaar more common to see Taudar competitively). 7E and its codex certainly took a lot of the lustre off but it remains a good codex. Ive had no problems with perception but perhaps that is because of the way I play? Anyways Im surprised at your comments here.

**BoomWolf**

Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

**DoomShakaLaka**

BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

**Vector Strike**

DoomShakaLaka wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Techmarines?

**BoomWolf**

DoomShakaLaka wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Neither can tau share rules?

The combined fire is pretty clear that you resolve as if it was one unit, not that you form a momentary unit.

The "true combine" interpretation, as slim as it is, just brakes the game on so many mechanical level (let alone balance) that it cant be argued for. I won't go into it as I gotta go sleep now, but it sends so many rules haywire and irrational that it cannot possibly apply. not even GW can do that level of madness.

**luke1705**

BoomWolf wrote:
DoomShakaLaka wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Neither can tau share rules?

The combined fire is pretty clear that you resolve as if it was one unit, not that you form a momentary unit.

The "true combine" interpretation, as slim as it is, just brakes the game on so many mechanical level (let alone balance) that it cant be argued for. I won't go into it as I gotta go sleep now, but it sends so many rules haywire and irrational that it cannot possibly apply. not even GW can do that level of madness.

Sounds like something they have covered pretty well over in YMDC. Personally I'm looking forward to the new applications for stealth suits. Much more potent offensively and very durable now that they have their friends the ghost keels who don't mind getting a little more up close and personal with them to give them perpetual 2+ cover from most angles.