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 Vector Strike wrote:
I have a question about the Infiltration Cadre:

Neutralisation Lattice:If a unit from this Formation inflicts three or more markerlight hits on a target unit in a Shooting phase, inflict a single seeker missile (pg 118) hit on the enemy unit in addition to placing the markerlight counters. Note that you do not need to roll to hit for the seeker missile, nor do you need to have a unit capable of firing the missile in range of the target (the missiles are fired by support craft flying high above the battlefield).

Does that mean that if 2 units inflict 3+ markerlights, 2 seeker missiles are shot? If is that so, I'd field full pathfinder units in there!

Yes-ish

If the shooting is done separately for each unit, then each unit that scores 3+ ML hits will cause 1 seeker missile to fire,

so you fire one unit, score 3 hits= 1 seeker missile. You place markerlight tokens, and fire a seeker misisle.

do the next and repeat.

there is a rules issue with the "coordinated firepower" which brings up the yes-ish part.

if you fire one squad and opt to combine two others to get increased BS, because of the rules for "coordinated firepower" they all count as a single unit when resolving the shot, this appears to mean that you would only get at max 1 seeker missile shot from the 3 combined units, where separately you could get 3 total.

Combining them seems like a waste of markerlights though. Better to spread the markerlight love around, and have other units combine fire on the markerlighted units to share the markerlight love.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Why? More aggressive? This isnt 5th anymore. There is no aggression within the Tau dex. We as generals no longer have to make difficult decisions in determining what gets to be a road bump, nor do we have to determine where to move if we want to secure an objective, we simply do.

You must have only ever played your Tau in a single kind of way because its utterly untrue to not being able to play your Tau aggressively, nor is it true that we have it so easy as you claim. Even with this new Codex and units there are several armies, such as Necrons, Space Marines and Eldar who have plenty in their arsenals to deal with what we can now bring to the field quite handily and I expect the other Codex's when they get redone to be brought up to the same level or close to it. Bemoaning that Tau have/take no skill to play may be your opinion but don't expect every person to agree with it, especially when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Nonaggressive tau? Literally the only things in my tau army that sits still are things that cant move - broadsides and tanks.

Thats part of the reason i use piranha walls. It lets me move forward with my firewarriors to get rapid fire hell and buy enough time to back up when it starts getting a bit hairy.

Im also one of the few tau players that actually charge. Even for tau there are tons of situations where charging is actually beneficial to do.

The tau gunline armies are terrible. Not only boring as hell but if you can field your own 48" or so guns, you can EASILY outgun Tau. Our power relies in the midfield ranges, its pretty rare to see us with more than 2-3 units that have a gun beyond 32" and if we do its usually a single shot.

Tau wants to be aggressive and that is why I really like the new retaliation cadre formation. Everything coming down on turn 2 and relentless broadsides lets you really get a mobile force, I think it pairs really well with the optimized stealth cadre as you can easily hide stealth suits and the ghostkneel can be really hard to kill when things are snap firing at it. The stealth suits also can have homing beacons for guaranteed deep striking.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Lol what? So I can't stick a marine in a drip pod with 3 grab cents and now ignores cover and delete pretty much anything I want? Good lord man what is your definition of " shooty"?

Always played Tau aggressively even in the old days of weak tau. I would have a Broadside team in the rear area but everything else would be forward with suits DSing all around enemy units who the turn before were looking to charge across the field. Playing non-aggressively with Tau is boring and gunlines put me to sleep.

EWO, the best item in the codex for the current game. I put that &*&* on everything.

 Orock wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Lol what? So I can't stick a marine in a drip pod with 3 grab cents and now ignores cover and delete pretty much anything I want? Good lord man what is your definition of " shooty"?

Don't forget to put it on a librarian with divination or telepathy!

 Orock wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Lets not forget, anything tau get that is "super OP"-a marine can get better at the same price, and nobody will lash an eye. (Hunter's Eye relic to be precise. a +1 version of our MSSS, at the same cost. but its marines, so its fair.)

Except Hunter's Eye relic doesn't exist in a codex where units can share abilities in the shooting phase. So no matter what it is only benefiting one unit.

Besides marine Hqs are not shooty hqs (unlike some of the Tau ones) so the allowance of them to shoot with the unit is almost negligible

Lol what? So I can't stick a marine in a drip pod with 3 grab cents and now ignores cover and delete pretty much anything I want? Good lord man what is your definition of " shooty"?

The HQ itself isn't shooty is what I said.

Someone mentioned a techmarine as a shooty hq. I guess you could give them a conversion beamer and fire out a S6 ap2 blast (wow) with those grav cents. You can't give him a harness though because he won't fit with them in the pod. You also can't give him relentless to be able to fire it the turn he drops because every option that does that makes him bulky or very bulky and he won't fit in the pod.

They were complaining that it was unfair that the space marine relic lets you shoot and still gain ignores cover, when in reality most things carrying the thing are going to be carrying a bolter so it doesn't affect much.

Yes the hunters eye is good. And yes no one will think its OP cause its an IOM relic. Wont matter as much if the dude is shot off the board before he can be useful.

DoomShakaLaka - he won't need Relentless if he pods in with the Centurions. Slow and Purposeful is a shared rule that the Centurions have.

 Jancoran wrote:
Who thinks they will get the new codex, vs. using their old codex and just getting the campaign book?

Considering Kauyon has effectively the full tau codex + 2 space marine Dataslates? My hard copy will be the Kauyon.

barnowl wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Who thinks they will get the new codex, vs. using their old codex and just getting the campaign book?

Considering Kauyon has effectively the full tau codex + 2 space marine Dataslates? My hard copy will be the Kauyon.

Nope. Its only the new units and the Tidewall formation stuff. So you do still need the codex if you buy Kau'yon. And they screwed us because the Tidewall info does NOT come in the Codex! Lame. Looking at my copy now.

Jefffar wrote:
DoomShakaLaka - he won't need Relentless if he pods in with the Centurions. Slow and Purposeful is a shared rule that the Centurions have.

This is true (forgot that S&P confers)

Also I did think of a shooting method that could be pretty broken. Giving the Hunter's Eye to a chapter master and give a centurion an omniscope

Now turn 1 you can drop in and fire at a different unit with an infinite range S10 ap1 ignores cover large blast separate from the centurions and still absorb some shooting for them.

So I changed my mind.

There's no reason why the SM one should be better than the Tau one for the same price. I was thinking that basically SM couldn't use it to its full potential so it was a wash, but I was wrong.

Full potential!? The fact they pay the same cost for a wargear upgrade that effects gravcannons, that the whole 40k world went f'n bananas about when Tau could only use it on autocannons, is utter bull$#!+. Never mind taking away all of the Tau version's limitations. It should be more expensive even without the +1 BS.

I thought it'd help to propagate discussion by rating the new formations that we have access to.

Green = Fantastic

Blue = Good

Yellow = Average

Red = Poor

I've tried to rate these against a specific set of conditions: Solo Power (how powerful the formation is by itself), Synergistic Power (how powerful the formation is when combined with others), and Tax (how large a buy-in the formation requires and/or whether it requires the inclusion of less-than-stellar units).

So, without further ado: Dr. Delorean's diagnosis of the new Formations!

Hunter Contingent (with Special Rule sharing) /without Special Rule sharing

The debate apparently still rages on as to whether special rules, alongside markerlight hits, may be shared amongst the disparate units that choose to Coordinate their Firepower onto a single enemy unit. As such, there are two separate ratings.

If we indeed can share Special Rules, then this easily hits Green status. The amount of synergy this would provide is immense. When combined with a Buffmander (Crisis Commander with any or all of the following: Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip, and Command and Control Node), it becomes ridiculous. Any single enemy unit targeted in this way will have a seriously bad time with the possibility of re-rolls to hit, Ignores Cover, Monster Hunter, or Tank Hunters.

Alternately, if this doesn't allow for the sharing of special rules, then it drops to a Blue. Sharing of Markerlights and +1 BS for three units firing at the same target is good and reduces the amount of Markerlights necessary for an average list significantly.

That said, the Detachment benefits could be a free cheeseburger every other Tuesday and a slap with a wet haddock and I'd still be hard-pressed to rate this any lower than Yellow, simply because the formations it is comprised of are (on average) very effective.



Hunter Cadre

A really solid formation, it's rating comes mostly from its sheer flexibility and synergy with the other formations when combined into a Hunter Contingent, rather than having amazing formation bonuses. That said, the bonuses aren't bad by any means. The extended Supporting Fire range means that you can more easily fend off any Skyhammer Assault Marines that survive your Interceptor fusillade, and being able to run (or flat-out) when within 12" of the Commander/Cadre Fireblade gives us back a lot of the maneuverability our Hammerhead's lost.

One thing to remember however is that if you wish to run-and-shoot, each unit that does so must complete both actions before you can move onto another unit. This makes it difficult to use alongside Coordinated Firepower.

Tax-wise there's little to complain about, mainly because this is one of the most open and varied Core formation I've seen. The only thing I'd knock it for is the mandatory 3 fire warrior/kroot squads, but considering the exceedingly cheap base cost for a 5-man FW squad, that's honestly a nitpick at best.


Retaliation Cadre

Battlesuit-o-philes rejoice! Did you want automatic turn 2 deep strike? Relentless Broadsides? +1 BS on the turn you rock up? It's all here!

Solo Power is high thanks to those lovely formation benefits and synergy-wise it combines well with both the Infiltration Cadre and the Optimised Stealth Cadre (more on those later).

It can also be used alongside the Hunter Cadre so that you can have your Buffmander stay at home, buffing his troops like a madman, and his Commander brother can hop around the opponent's backfield with his now-apparently-not-experimental Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors, ignoring cover and living the high life.

As far as Tax goes, it can quickly become expensive if you over-indulge, but even the mandatory 3 Crisis units aren't a huge cost since they can still be taken in units of 1 if you so choose.

As a final note - taking this in a Hunter Contingent for the +1BS bonus and/or making use of the Riptide's Fire Team rule will quickly get you that sweet BS5 without ever having to spend a markerlight. Who's got poor depth perception now, Imperium?!


Heavy Retribution Cadre

I umm'ed and ahh'ed about whether to give this Blue or Yellow for a long time, but finally settled on Yellow just for the really high buy-in cost. 850pts (at minimum) will be difficult to fit into a varied list, and the Ghostkeel can be better utilised in the Optimised Stealth Cadre.

The bonuses are solid though and synergise well with the Hunter Contingent benefits due to both requiring combined fire. The best part is, as Gargantuan Creatures, the Stormsurges can potentially select many different enemy units and pummel them all into halving their charge rolls and run moves. Perfect for that annoying Eldar army that keeps running and gunning. Note that it only requires the enemy to be selected as a target, it doesn't need to take any damage from the attack. Use those Smart Missile Systems well, Shas'la!


Infiltration Cadre
A true troll's best friend, the Infiltration Cadre is perfect for those bringing the Retaliation Cadre, or are holding any significant number of units in reserve. Watch your opponent's gleeful look as he destroys that lone Piranha turn to one of abject horror as you declare that nine Crisis Suits, three Broadsides, and three Riptides are deepstriking, automatically, in your FIRST. TURN.

The extra seeker hits are just gravy - though I'd recommend units of 8 pathfinders - 6 of them averages 3 markerlight hits each, taking 8 allows for some minor casualties before their effectiveness is reduced, as as Tau are Base-8, it's pleasantly appropriate.

The cheapness of the pathfinders and Piranha makes up for the slighty-overcosted Stealth Suits, but what really drags this otherwise superlative formation from a Green to a Blue is simply that those Stealth Suits are far better used in a different formation. Speaking of...


Optimised Stealth Cadre
The great redeemer of Stealth Suits everywhere, this is the cream of the crop. +1 BS is good (+2 when firing with all 3 units and in a Hunter Contingent), Ignores Cover is better, and automatically hitting Rear Armour makes anyone using a vehicle weep.

Leman Russes are now effectively av10, Necron vehicles can leave their quantum shielding at home for all the good it'd do, and Imperial Knights have to make some tough decisions about where their Ion Shield is gonna go.

It also handily compensates for the fact that only 1 in 3 stealth suits can take a fusion blaster - now players won't feel like their burst cannons are being wasted, as most vehicles' rear armour can at least be glanced by strength 5.

The buy-in at minimum is fairly low, though if you're really wanting to get the most out of this formation I'd recommend taking more than one Ghostkeel. The formation revolves around them, and even if the stealth suits are killed the Ghostkeels can still use the rules. Plus, Ghostkeels are fantastic anyway.


Firebase Support Cadre
Oh how the mighty have fallen. What was once the very best of Tau formations has now been brought down and overshadowed by others. It's not bad by any means, but the units that comprise it are better used in a Retaliation Cadre or a Hunter Cadre and can more easily access the same benefits through a Buffmander (if that's how the bonus works).

It has become cheaper to run however, as the Broadside units no longer need to be full size. My advice if you want to take this formation is to keep it small and make sure the Riptide is equipped to complement the Broadsides - Ion Accelerators all the way.


Armoured Interdiction Cadre (if special rules can be shared)/If special rules can't be shared
It's nice for Hammerheads to get some benefits, but the buy-in for this formation is quite high. Much like the Hunter Contingent, the efficacy of this formation is somewhat predicated on whether special rules can be shared.

Re-rolling to hit is great, but taking Longstrike on one of the Hammerheads and allowing him to share his Tank Hunters with everyone would make this formation truly shine. There's little point in taking a single unit of 3 hammerheads if this is the case - taking them separately allows them to target different units, but they can still access the +1BS they'd receive for being separate units targeting the same enemy.

I'd really like to rate this formation higher, since I own 3 hammerheads and a skyray, but until we get some confirmation on how Coordinated Firepower works it'll remain in Ratings limbo.


Air Caste Support Cadre
The only truly poor formation of the bunch, the Air Caste Support Cadre suffers from having to include already-lacklustre units and not giving them anything particularly effective to compensate.

The flyers are fairly fragile, so the restoration of HP on a 6 isn't anything to write home about since most of the time they'll be destroyed outright rather than stripped slowly. Ignoring Shaken/Stunned is alright, though the fact you still lose a HP stings.

This is disappointing, because there's a lot more they could've done to entice people into this formation. Stuff like allowing the flyers to Jink without having to snap fire, or giving them Vector Dancer would've added something not seen in the Tau force.


Allied Advance Cadre
I felt like Homer Simpson buying the cursed doll when I was reading this formation. You can take battleforged armies of almost-all Kroot, that's good! But you need to take 2 units of Vespid, that's bad. The the Kroot get +1 BS, that's good! But they need to stay within 12" of a Vespid unit, that's bad.

What this formation really suffers from is that it forces you to take 2 units that don't really want to cooperate. Vespid want to use their heightened maneuverability and Jump status to close with the enemy quickly and harass, whereas Kroot want to take as much advantage of their Shrouded (Forests) special rule (forcing them to stay in terrain pieces).

It's still not a bad formation though - Kroot with Sniper Rounds and BS 4 are not to be sneezed at, and Supporting Fire makes them more resistant to assault than they otherwise might have been.

That said, I wouldn't take this formation unless you're a fan of Vespid, Kroot, or both. Or, you want to run a good old Kroot Mercenaries list and convert up some counts-as Vespid that are Kroot with the Wings mutation. Ah, 3rd edition...



So there we go! My $3.50 (roughly 2 pence in Aust. dollarydoos) about our new shiny formations and detachments. Feel free to provide your own comments on how good you think the formations are, these are just my personal opinions after all, and I may well have overlooked some key aspect that you've noticed.


For the Greater Good!

The debate on whether or not unit-wide rules share is just people who dont want to face it trying to rule-lawyer it out. If they count as a unit for that shooting, then any and all unit rules apply unless it says it doesnt - it doesnt need special permission to be a normal unit when it says its a unit.
Tau have a lot of rules like that, all of which have either been FAQ'd to shut the critiques up or the Tau just accepted it to shut them up. Ever notice any funky rules IOM get nobody flames as hard as ours?

Though i admit its crazy powerful.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The debate on whether or not unit-wide rules share is just people who dont want to face it trying to rule-lawyer it out. If they count as a unit for that shooting, then any and all unit rules apply unless it says it doesnt - it doesnt need special permission to be a normal unit when it says its a unit.
Tau have a lot of rules like that, all of which have either been FAQ'd to shut the critiques up or the Tau just accepted it to shut them up. Ever notice any funky rules IOM get nobody flames as hard as ours?

Though i admit its crazy powerful.

I agree that it seems pretty clear-cut and it's the way my group and I will play it, but for neutrality's sake and on the off chance GW releases an FAQ explicitly stating that special rules don't transfer (for some reason), I thought I'd try to cover all the bases.

I agree with your assessment, Delorean.
The aircraft formation won't sell any more planes, neither will the vespid one. all the others have good uses.

As I love to DS Crisis, Infiltration Cadre will be a staple in my lists from now on. You'll want to go 2nd as much as possible with it in the game.

I actually find the formations themselves to be fairly unremarkable, with a few exceptions. It's the combined fire Hunter Contingent formation bonus that makes everything awesome.

In particular, I don't think the Retaliation Cadre is all that great. Relentless Broadsides are clearly awesome, but everything else is already relentless. Adding a BS to everything that deep strikes is cool, but now that you can (probably) share buffmander boons all over the place and get an extra BS from combined fire anyway, the benefits are a little less amazing. You're also talking about sacrificing a turn of fire from a huge chunk of your army if you want to maximize the formation bonus. Given that it consists of units you're probably pretty interested in taking anyway, it's still good, but I doubt I'd call it a fantastic choice.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the rules for the Infiltration Cadre, but doesn't the death-->unit dump thing only apply to units in the formation itself? I like the concept of the formation a lot, but if it's competitiveness and power you're after, fielding 6 units of sub-par choices that don't get any huge bonuses is probably not the way to go. On the other hand, if it allows to to spew all your reserves out at once when something dies, I agree that it's quite the powerful set-up.

Air Caste Support...*sigh*...At least they tried...? I guess?

It should be pretty obvious that the winner is the Optimised Stealth Cadre. If that formation doesn't find its way into just about every tournament-going Tau army, I'll be awfully surprised. Those bonuses are disgusting, especially in concert with all the other widespread buffs you can load on them.

MilkmanAl wrote:

Air Caste Support...*sigh*...At least they tried...? I guess?

It should be pretty obvious that the winner is the Optimised Stealth Cadre. If that formation doesn't find its way into just about every tournament-going Tau army, I'll be awfully surprised. Those bonuses are disgusting, especially in concert with all the other widespread buffs you can load on them.

Which common tournament army uses so many high armour value vehicles that bonuses against vehicles are needed for 'every tournament-going Tau army'? Because I'm not seeing it. Sure the formation sounds great, but it does nothing against Eldar, nothing against Space Marines, almost nothing against Necrons, and nothing against Tyranids.

New Tau units

MilkmanAl wrote:
I actually find the formations themselves to be fairly unremarkable, with a few exceptions. It's the combined fire Hunter Contingent formation bonus that makes everything awesome.

In particular, I don't think the Retaliation Cadre is all that great. Relentless Broadsides are clearly awesome, but everything else is already relentless. Adding a BS to everything that deep strikes is cool, but now that you can (probably) share buffmander boons all over the place and get an extra BS from combined fire anyway, the benefits are a little less amazing. You're also talking about sacrificing a turn of fire from a huge chunk of your army if you want to maximize the formation bonus. Given that it consists of units you're probably pretty interested in taking anyway, it's still good, but I doubt I'd call it a fantastic choice.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the rules for the Infiltration Cadre, but doesn't the death-->unit dump thing only apply to units in the formation itself? I like the concept of the formation a lot, but if it's competitiveness and power you're after, fielding 6 units of sub-par choices that don't get any huge bonuses is probably not the way to go. On the other hand, if it allows to to spew all your reserves out at once when something dies, I agree that it's quite the powerful set-up.

Air Caste Support...*sigh*...At least they tried...? I guess?

It should be pretty obvious that the winner is the Optimised Stealth Cadre. If that formation doesn't find its way into just about every tournament-going Tau army, I'll be awfully surprised. Those bonuses are disgusting, especially in concert with all the other widespread buffs you can load on them.

What makes retaliation cadre awesome, aside of deep-striking-relentless-broadsides (as its only 1 unit per formation) is the fact its an assured T2 arrival, practically punishing alpha strike lists by delivering a nasty, guaranteed beta strike. you WILL get the first strike, even if they use drop pods.

Infiltration cadre allows much of the same-if you get hit hard turn 1, you hit back harder on turn 2. because your entire army worth of reserves arrives-even on T1. yes, entire army, not the formation itself. and neither pathfinders nor piranhas are sub-par. pathys are among the best markerlight sources around, especially with tidewalls being a thing. piranhas are just cheap S5Ap5 spammers, and a mobile roadblock. the entire formation is trolltastic (and free seeker strikes on good marking is icing on an already good cake)

The two combined with the EWO being a thing allow tau to build some heavily anti-alpha army, practically assuring that alpha armies can never dominate the metagame, as tau counter them.


OSC is freaking amazing, yes. it counterbalances nearly any tank-oriented spam list where the tank does not have though rear, and presents a real problem to IKs (protect rear from the OSC, or front from the possible stormsurge) again, a meta shaping formation, as it provides a viable answer to some nasty lists.


Air caste support...it a fail. not everything can be a winner. it does not even support a clear fighting style unlike the rest.


The existance of tau's formations, especially the way they all branch into multiple directions (infiltration/retaliation are beta strike, OSC/allied advance support aggresive infiltration forces and armored induction/heavy retribution/firebase support deploy gunlines, with the hunter being able to support each of the three paths) makes tau to be able to answer any meta, without defining it on its own right. you can counter any one thing, but not all the things at once. if anything becomes dominant, focus the formations that counter it-if there is no clear domination, mix up your paths to make an balanced list.

So I see the smaller/cheaper Ghostkeel as a mini HBC Riptide (the one with the ECPA).

A bunch of decent str shots, fairly autonomous, good range and mobility.

Some other ramblings;

The Taucurion (Hunter Contingent)
=Multi-Unit shooting, to share Markerlights & +1BS buff (the 'weaker' version should be the one assumed, as well.. it is (perhaps silly?) wishful thinking to assume otherwise.. giveN the scope of the 'powerful' version).
+ Efficient Markerlight usage... partially offset by the 'Destroy' option for the StrD (However the StrD option will effect any use of markerlights, Taucurion or not).
+ +1BS (Meaning markerlights become even more 'efficient', as they are used less for BS buffs.)
+ Hunter Cadre for the... Jump... Jump Shoot Jump ability. Pretty limited, a KV128 often wants to remain still (but can move, fast, which is awesome) + units need to remain close to a single model.
- The Jump..JSJ ability seems better on vehicles than infantry models but vehicle access is very limited in the Taucurion.
- Tax of... 3x infantry squads, perhaps 1 pathfinder/Drones
- A further Tax in terms of minimum investment, to access Jump..JSJ + Multi-unit shooting, alongside the other formations benefits.
- No sweet sweet Forge World Models (Tetras?!)

So, if you wish to gain the benefits (assume 'weaker') of the better innate BS and/or efficient markerlights... you could simply buy more markerlights. However markerlights don't win you games*, you still need guns, so having an inherent ability which persists the entire game, assuming you have 3+ units, is good.

And no Forge-World.. That... makes me sad. (Context - 1500pt games, what we play at and makes lists challenging to build, IMHO).

Which common tournament army uses so many high armour value vehicles that bonuses against vehicles are needed for 'every tournament-going Tau army'? Because I'm not seeing it. Sure the formation sounds great, but it does nothing against Eldar, nothing against Space Marines, almost nothing against Necrons, and nothing against Tyranids.

Ignoring cover and an extra BS do nothing against any of those armies? Hitting rear armor isn't as huge of a bonus as most people are making it out to be, but it's always nice against MSU Razorback spam marine lists, which seem to be quite prevalent. Ignoring FMC jinks is nice if they're in range of your fusion guns or have a 4+ or worse basic armor save. I'll give you that it doesn't help a whole lot against Eldar outside of just hitting more often. I'm not saying this formation is the most heinously broken auto-include ever, but I do think it's very, very good and probably the best formation we got in the new book.

What makes retaliation cadre awesome, aside of deep-striking-relentless-broadsides (as its only 1 unit per formation) is the fact its an assured T2 arrival, practically punishing alpha strike lists by delivering a nasty, guaranteed beta strike. you WILL get the first strike, even if they use drop pods.

I can see that being pretty sweet, no doubt. I think you run a rather high risk of ceding board control to your opponent, though. I also don't love the notion of having half my army off the board for 1-2 rounds of enemy shenanigans. I'll have to play with it some and see how it goes.

because your entire army worth of reserves arrives-even on T1. yes, entire army, not the formation itself.

Okay, so that's totally cool, especially with the Retaliation Cadre. Now THAT's a beta-strike.

neither pathfinders nor piranhas are sub-par.

I've always wanted Piranhas to be useful. Roadblocks are nice sometimes, but I'd rather just obliterate whatever I'm trying to block. Maybe they're more useful now that they can get some bonuses when they fire. Pathfinders, on the other hand, are pretty clearly the worst markerlight solution, in my opinion. Marker Drones can easily have BS5, and Tetras are more mobile, more durable, and more reliable. Skyrays are great all-around units.

The two combined with the EWO being a thing allow tau to build some heavily anti-alpha army, practically assuring that alpha armies can never dominate the metagame, as tau counter them.

An interesting thought.

MilkmanAl wrote:

because your entire army worth of reserves arrives-even on T1. yes, entire army, not the formation itself.

Okay, so that's totally cool, especially with the Retaliation Cadre. Now THAT's a beta-strike

Depending on how much is still on the table, unless I've missed a way you can insta-gib one of your own units (deepstrike mishap?), surely an opponent could just not kill one of your Infiltration Cadre?

Skyfire Markerlights.. Do I still want skyrays.. or am I tempted by Big D Missles instead?!

 Jancoran wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Who thinks they will get the new codex, vs. using their old codex and just getting the campaign book?

Considering Kauyon has effectively the full tau codex + 2 space marine Dataslates? My hard copy will be the Kauyon.

Nope. Its only the new units and the Tidewall formation stuff. So you do still need the codex if you buy Kau'yon. And they screwed us because the Tidewall info does NOT come in the Codex! Lame. Looking at my copy now.

I see, it is almost a bolt on upgrade to the 6e codex. Most of the rules for units that changed in someway plus the Tidewall. (only unit I don't see that is changed is Aun'shi, and his big change is a sheild generator, wonder is we will see more of him)

Is the Farsight Bomb still viable?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Is the Farsight Bomb still viable?

Possibly more so.
While you cannot take Farsight in the Hunter Contingent (Taucurion), Crisis Suits and Crisis Bodyguards (elite slot now) can be taken in teams of 9. In a CAD, you can take a nine man Crisis Team in an elite slot and have Farsight as your HQ so you can save points instead of buying Bodyguards.

The one thing you need to watch out for is new Crisis Suits have larger bases so you won't be able to fit into as tight an area as before.

Razerous wrote:

The Taucurion (Hunter Contingent)
=Multi-Unit shooting, to share Markerlights & +1BS buff (the 'weaker' version should be the one assumed, as well.. it is (perhaps silly?) wishful thinking to assume otherwise.. giveN the scope of the 'powerful' version).

Again, just because YOU think it is too powerful, does not mean that isn't the way the rule is written. As written, it's pretty simple; all buffs are shared. Just because people call OP does not give the right to just dismiss the rule

Hey, please don't put words in my text. I merely said weaker and powerful. One is stronger than the other, that is all.

You can assume whichever way you want. I know which one I would put money on, for the group of players I'd like to play with!