For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Grizzyzz**

Vineheart01 wrote:
i was wrong on that statement yes. Sorry bout that.

Not that it ever matters anyway. Literally never had a situation where obsec means anything - one side always gets wiped out

Man, every game I play comes down to that. Maelstrom especially, I have done really well with my FSE CAD because so many people play formations that no longer grant it. Windrider host for an example. Doesn't matter if his bikes are there or not, objective is mine.

**BoomWolf**

One side always being wiped out is utterly false.

Entire armies are set around the concept of "you can't possibly kill all my dudes" (necrons, some of the renegades variations, daemon summoning factory, nid spawn lists, etc.)

Obsec matter in these cases, obsec matters if you cant kill the enemy -right now- for some reason (more pressing issues, and your troops are not that lethal.) obsec matters when your troops are melee-ish,or tarpits, then you can claim the objective by simply attacking, and even if you fail to whip to enemy, you still claim the points.

**Vineheart01**

i face against 2 necron players regularly. Its their formation for a 4+ reanimate that makes them deadly, the 5+ isnt that bad. They consistently roll 4s, not 4+. Virtually every time i cause ID and reduce it to a 5, they fail.
Also the formation for reanimate on wraiths.

Dont get me wrong theyre still a pain in the ass to kill, but if they get obsec theyre nowhere near as bad.

**BoomWolf**

You are looking at it form only one direction.

What if they are in the decurion, and YOU posses the obsec?
Suddenly killing them all, despite how hard it is, don't matter as much. you can win despite not being able to cause too much damage.

**luke1705**

So picked up the Mont'ka book and found this interesting tidbit that I knew I was looking for but could not find on the interwebs:

"If you wish, you can say that any Tau detachment or formation is from the Farsight Enclaves"

This gives them access to the FE signature systems, crisis troops, CC attacks get PE Orks, you must take bonding knives if you can, and you get access to the FE warlord traits.

Worth pointing out that characters who are in FE can't use Tau signature systems - they can only use FE ones.

Really, that's what I was waiting to hear. I think I'll just go normal CAD with farsight and friends, then take an OSC or two as a normal formatjon detachment. Sadly, O'Vesa can't join the party at normal points levels

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In light of this, I have to ask:

How would you guys do farsight bomb?

You can put shadowsun and farsight in the same unit now, so I have to wonder if it's not extremely viable in light of all our formation options

**Razerous**

Are the farsight Sig Systems much the same or different, now?

**Tinkrr**

Outside from the formations what else has changed in the FSE? I always thought it was a little underwhelming when I got the last book since it was basically some war gear and not much else if you were just looking for things to build a list with. Not that the book was bad, I was just expecting something different.

That's one thing I wish Tau had more of, something like Chaos where you have all the options of uniforms from the legions but then things like KDK, and the rumoured TDK, which let you have much larger armies of one theme that still look different and play differently. Would be nice to get something like Tau Auxiliaries which expand on the Kroot, Vespids, and other allies of the Tau.

**luke1705**

They are the same as far as I can tell. The ECPA is still the only thing worth taking.

The nice thing is that any detachment can have crisis troops. This only matters with a CAD naturally. Having only obsec crisis suits as your troops means no tax units. In between Farsight (who is a little underwhelming but guaranteed no scatter deep strike is not bad) and formations that can guarantee the bomb coming in on turn 2, it's an interesting idea.

I think, with a little tweaking, you can have a 9 strong suit unit (with whatever amount of drones that you want) as well as Farsight and shadowsun.

Gives guaranteed turn 2 deep strike with no scatter, and the unit has stealth and shrouded. Hop in any area terrain and you get 2+ cover.

An appropriate amount of target locks and a buffmander in that unit is expensive, yes. However, he does a ton of nice things for the squad (twin-linked, ignores cover, tank hunter or monster hunter). You could have the whole unit be obsec too if you have the crisis suits themselves be from FSE, but you lose out on the ability to have a discounted buffmander from inside the unit.

**wighti**

Riptides can no longer take signature systems in a FE detachment. Aside from obsec crisis suits, the FE list is not really offering anything tangible for a tau player. The normal tau list, like previously, is quite frankly just plain out better.

**gmaleron**

wighti wrote:
Riptides can no longer take signature systems in a FE detachment. Aside from obsec crisis suits, the FE list is not really offering anything tangible for a tau player. The normal tau list, like previously, is quite frankly just plain out better.

This is false, this is a total misprint by GW and it should be FAQ'd soon. The Earth Caste Pilot Array it affects a Nova Reactor and the Riptides the only model that has that meaning this relic is only be useful on a Riptide. If anyone seriously tries to nitpick that and say no you can't use it I would have to label them TFG.

**Krellnus**

They took away the minimum unit of 3 crisis suits in a detachment, I doubt this is a misprint.

**gmaleron**

Krellnus wrote:
They took away the minimum unit of 3 crisis suits in a detachment, I doubt this is a misprint.

I'm not saying that is a misprint, what I'm saying is a misprint or what they forgot to add is that Riptides can take signature systems still from the Farsight Enclavea. It makes no sense for the Earth Caste Pilot Array to allow a reroll of the Nova Reactor if the Riptide cannot take it to begin with.

**Krellnus**

O'Vesa still has it on his profile, which considering The Eight are the only models within FSE that essentially ignore signature system rules, I don't think we are gonna get a FAQ.

**Shade of Asuryan**

gmaleron wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
They took away the minimum unit of 3 crisis suits in a detachment, I doubt this is a misprint.

I'm not saying that is a misprint, what I'm saying is a misprint or what they forgot to add is that Riptides can take signature systems still from the Farsight Enclavea. It makes no sense for the Earth Caste Pilot Array to allow a reroll of the Nova Reactor if the Riptide cannot take it to begin with.

The special character guy in the eight has it, so perhaps he is the only riptide who can use the ECPA.

**BoomWolf**

Except even he can't take it according to RAW. Despite having to take it.
It's an obvious durp.

**wighti**

Then again, there's a detachment that can have 3 ravenwing characters in it when there's just a single one in the game.

It's my belief that the days of GW FAQ'ing anything are done. Fingers crossed that they'll prove me wrong. There was that rumour of new FAQ's coming but that was a while ago ...

**Lunar Centurion**

What's a good starting list (500-750pts) for Tau? I just bought some Fire Warriors, and am looking to get some more.

**Vineheart01**

Tau have so many loopholes they could have easily released a day 1 FAQ just to prove to us that they still FAQ. Not a single peep yet.
Im halfway tempted to goto Suggested Rules and come up with my own damn FAQ, considering i am constantly trying to nerf my own forces to not feel like a dick to my friends i could probably rule a lot of things fairly. Problem is that forum always turns into a "Well i think it should be X" even if the suggestion is a damn good one.

Quite frankly i dont know why people want the FSE sig systems so bad. The Relic is the only one to me thats amazing, the rest are either too expensive for what they do or crap anyway. ECPA wasnt bad, but it kinda makes no sense to call it a signature system when its a riptide only thing to begin with. Could have been easier to word it like Longstrike where 1 per army can be upgraded with it.
Speaking of which, even if riptides are denied it now (which is kinda dumb) Ovesa still has it unless they changed his profile. Doesnt matter if the unit hes based on cant take it, if its listed in his profile he has it. Doesnt he technically have 3 support system stuff too?

**gmaleron**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Quite frankly i dont know why people want the FSE sig systems so bad. The Relic is the only one to me thats amazing, the rest are either too expensive for what they do or crap anyway. ECPA wasnt bad, but it kinda makes no sense to call it a signature system when its a riptide only thing to begin with. Could have been easier to word it like Longstrike where 1 per army can be upgraded with it.
Speaking of which, even if riptides are denied it now (which is kinda dumb) Ovesa still has it unless they changed his profile. Doesnt matter if the unit hes based on cant take it, if its listed in his profile he has it. Doesnt he technically have 3 support system stuff too?

Honestly I will have to double check how many Systems Ovesa has and again it doesn't make sense that other Riptides cannot take the Earth Caste Pilot array. If it were only meant for Ovesa then why would they bother to put a point value on it when Ovesa already has a set points cost? Im going to play the ECPA as I always have and use it on one of my Riptides, because the rules clearly are intended for that.

**Orock**

gmaleron wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
Quite frankly i dont know why people want the FSE sig systems so bad. The Relic is the only one to me thats amazing, the rest are either too expensive for what they do or crap anyway. ECPA wasnt bad, but it kinda makes no sense to call it a signature system when its a riptide only thing to begin with. Could have been easier to word it like Longstrike where 1 per army can be upgraded with it.
Speaking of which, even if riptides are denied it now (which is kinda dumb) Ovesa still has it unless they changed his profile. Doesnt matter if the unit hes based on cant take it, if its listed in his profile he has it. Doesnt he technically have 3 support system stuff too?

Honestly I will have to double check how many Systems Ovesa has and again it doesn't make sense that other Riptides cannot take the Earth Caste Pilot array. If it were only meant for Ovesa then why would they bother to put a point value on it when Ovesa already has a set points cost? Im going to play the ECPA as I always have and use it on one of my Riptides, because the rules clearly are intended for that.

the problem isnt how it clearly should work. The problem is all the people out there who just hate tau that will try and screw you out of your gear. just like they are trying with the clearly defined rules for the ITC.

**luke1705**

Also the problem with O'Vesa is that you can't take him solo any more. You either take all of the 8, or none of the 8

**Vineheart01**

Being unable to take specific characters of the Eight is just dumb.

The Eight on their own is insanely expensive and offer so many weird methods of attack you need an apoc sized game to even utilize them...but then you run into issues like "why would you put flamers on a commander....?" then again thats a problem in general lol.

Also i see no way to jib Ovesa out of any of his rules. His cost includes all of his gear which are specifically stated just like ANY character is minus Shadowsun with her optional drones. Though i can see WAAC people saying normal Riptides cant get ECPA now.

Which is why i avoid tournaments. Thats the #1 place you'll find those kinds of people, the ones you find outside of it can be easily avoided/ignored. Only one such person in my area, and hes kinda disappeared because everyone is sick of him threading between the rules.

**BoomWolf**

Why flamers on a commander?

For that crowning moment of awesomeness with the formation of her overwatching against a unit over twice as far as the flamer can actually reach (24" supporting fire range wall of death!)

Also, its not just WAAC, by following the written word-currently a run of the mill tide CANT get the ECPA. and that sucks for me because I really counted on that in my past armies.
My friends will probably let it slide for now until FAQed (hopefully), but I won't allow myself to you it in pickup games.

**Strtkwr**

I down loaded the Mont'ka book on My iPad, and I cannot find the point values anywhere for the eight. Are they the same as they were in the FSE supplement?

**maceria**

I'm really surprised they didn't have each of the eight be an upgrade option in their own formation, with special rules. Like Torchstar gets a unit of XV8s that must be armed with a flamer or TL flamer, and get 3" torrent or some such, and the guy with the fusion sword gets body guards armed with power weapons and are WS4 I4, because they are stabby.

**gmaleron**

Honestly I'm just going to toss 1 of the Eight in their own Suit Squad and kit them out based on the Commander. Maybe not great but will be alot of fun.

**Vineheart01**

I tried that when i first found out about the Eight. I wanted to run them all with their own squads, and it reached apoc levels REALLY fast considering the sheer size of the army also forces other units they arent with such as multiple marker units, tanks, or additional MCs.

Also to the guys wondering about the Eights costs: there arent any listed. You are suppose to look at the gear and math it out - which is really annoying. The FSE doesnt list any points. They also dont change their stats other than adding the IC rule, so Ovesa/Ob'lotai are BS3

In spoilers since its rather large. Also bear in mind this was before Ghostkeels, Breachers, or Surges, so things like crisis suit numbers could be beefed up heavily if you wish.

Spoiler:

Total: 3340pts. And this is just The Eight, this isnt even factoring in any real support or additional Riptides, Broadsides, or Skyray units. Considering Crisis Suits are Troops and theres 6 units here, this is entirely within a single CAD.
Add in a couple more Riptides and a Skyray, it hits 3925pts. Add in 4-5 Pathfinder units for more ML support, it reaches 4285pts (6man Pathfinder squads, no upgrades other than the mandatory BKR).

This is why forcing us to take The Eight is just beyond stupid. 3 of them have dumb gear lists and force either ignoring some of it but paying it anyway, or really funky playstyles. You can shave a lot of points if you take out the 30 Gun Drones (360pts) but then you lose a lot of ablative wounds. And theyre INSANELY expensive. Without any units to attach to, theyre 1484pts!!!!

Now bear in mind i dont have Mont'ka so if they changed their wargears out my opinion might change. This was using the FSE, not Mont'ka

Oh, and another tax i didnt factor in. Since the Eight is a formation now and not counting as a single HQ choice, you are now requiring 1 more random commander minimum to bring the CAD with the 6 crisis suit squads in it. That, or an insane tax by using a couple Retaliation Cadres or some other formation that gives you Crisis units lol.

**gmaleron**

Are you sure that is correct?! Because it doesn't look their gear has changed from the old Supplement Book and it only comes out to 1329 Points.

**Never mind didn't see you added a Crisis Squad per guy as well!!**

**DirtyDeeds**

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/11/29/3rd-quarter-mid-season-itc-update-poll-results/#comments

ITC voted against sharing rules in all forms (Via Target Lock or against a single enemy unit) and against sharing Darkstrider's -1T ability.

**Vineheart01**

Quite frankly im not surprised. Even though i am convinced people like rulehammering non-imperial rules, even i agree the USR sharing of the hunter contingent was just ridiculous. Its still dead powerful if you spam MSU and just have them behave as a unit without being a unit, giving +1BS everywhere and making MLs vastly more powerful.

Now im going to laugh my ass off if GW finally FAQs the tau codex and says otherwise lol