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What else did they do to tau other than rule USRs dont share in the Hunter Contingent?

I dont usually pay attention to tournament rules

So far, nothing yet. Though one article mentioned the person used the Holophoton as a once per squad thing as opposed to once per Ghostkeel thing, which the previous discussion was in regards too.

They also stated they'll be looking at some of the Mont'ka stuff because there's some questionable wording there, which I fully understand as currently the Piranha wing is a little too good.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Peeps...can we, for the love of God, please keep this thread talking about tactics? The ghostkeel argument is best had in YMDC. Why don't you start a thread over there if you need to keep hashing it out? If we want to talk about Ghostkeels, I, for one, would be interested in hearing some opinions on what is the best loadout for them, specifically a single one in an OSC.

I am fine with that. I don't see much reason for him to alter course and the text gives me none.

The singular Ghostkeep may not be as awesome. I played with three together and they did work. I again used the Fusion collider and TL Fusion Blaster. It took out 6 hull points on a super heavy in a round which was nice, and obviously could have been even more devastating. The Ion raker is better if you have a lot of anti-tank i nthe army already.

the thing about the Ghostkeels is, they fill a dominating need in the list, whether it be anti-personell or anti-TEQ and Armour. So whatever the rest of the list doesnt have enough of, give the Ghostkeel. I would magnetize the weapons because what makes them great in my mind isnt their weapons (which will be a function of need) but how doggone survivable they are. They will last a very big majority of the game if you take more than one.

Here's another consideration: I see a lot of people using 3 man Stealth suit units and one Ghostkeel. if all you're taking are 3 Stealthsuits, then a single Ghostkeel is fine. But i probably would say to take more than that. Stealthsuits are tough, they kill tanks and infantry, they are hard to shoot dead and in my case i used Shadowsun to command the force, which made it even more fun.

 Jancoran wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Peeps...can we, for the love of God, please keep this thread talking about tactics? The ghostkeel argument is best had in YMDC. Why don't you start a thread over there if you need to keep hashing it out? If we want to talk about Ghostkeels, I, for one, would be interested in hearing some opinions on what is the best loadout for them, specifically a single one in an OSC.

I am fine with that. I don't see much reason for him to alter course and the text gives me none.

The singular Ghostkeep may not be as awesome. I played with three together and they did work. I again used the Fusion collider and TL Fusion Blaster. It took out 6 hull points on a super heavy in a round which was nice, and obviously could have been even more devastating. The Ion raker is better if you have a lot of anti-tank i nthe army already.

the thing about the Ghostkeels is, they fill a dominating need in the list, whether it be anti-personell or anti-TEQ and Armour. So whatever the rest of the list doesnt have enough of, give the Ghostkeel. I would magnetize the weapons because what makes them great in my mind isnt their weapons (which will be a function of need) but how doggone survivable they are. They will last a very big majority of the game if you take more than one.

Here's another consideration: I see a lot of people using 3 man Stealth suit units and one Ghostkeel. if all you're taking are 3 Stealthsuits, then a single Ghostkeel is fine. But i probably would say to take more than that. Stealthsuits are tough, they kill tanks and infantry, they are hard to shoot dead and in my case i used Shadowsun to command the force, which made it even more fun.

Best OSC lineup is 3 Ghostkeel and 2x3 stealth suits. If you only take 1 ghost keel and it dies, all that stealth suit "tax" loose all the benefits of OSC

You see stealthsuits as a tax? Thats weird. Common, but weird. The Stealthsuits are extremely useful.

 Jancoran wrote:
You see stealthsuits as a tax? Thats weird. Common, but weird. The Stealthsuits are extremely useful.

Only useful when they get all the buffs (+1 BS, Ignore cover, always hit rear of vehicles) from OSC formation. Otherwise they are just an ok unit; so a tax. The point is the formation is so good beaus of how good the ghost keels become and the buff to stealth suits. If the ghost keel dies then the stealth suits are no longer that great.

So what's the legal basing for a drone? I feel like the standard flying base puts them a bit too high off the ground for their size, and I'd like to make my basic drones about half the height of a Crisis Suit, which is just taller than a standing Fire Warrior.

If I cut the stem, and mount it on a regular troop base, will that cause issues for tournament play?

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
You see stealthsuits as a tax? Thats weird. Common, but weird. The Stealthsuits are extremely useful.

Only useful when they get all the buffs (+1 BS, Ignore cover, always hit rear of vehicles) from OSC formation. Otherwise they are just an ok unit; so a tax. The point is the formation is so good beaus of how good the ghost keels become and the buff to stealth suits. If the ghost keel dies then the stealth suits are no longer that great.

Stealthsuits hit on 2's, wound on 3's against MEQ (because Markerlights are in fact a Tau thing), they fire 24 shots, and they can fire them with Precision shot if you want them to. They can get great saves and their only real downside is they are Tough 3. That's about it.

So I took two full squads. I did switch out two with Meltas, so they had two of those and 4 Burst Cannons. I was able to kill an important Psyker with Precision shots and a Sergeant. Both were important to nerfing the enemy unit. I added a Triple-Keel unit. my big mistake was not putting a bonding knife on the Keels. Lersson learned. collectively they rolled the right flank and kept coming. Even in a game where i more or less failed every save I was given the opportunity to fail, they still gave me excellent board control.

So yeah I can't see taking just 2x3 Stealthsuits just to boost one Ghostkeel.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So what's the legal basing for a drone? I feel like the standard flying base puts them a bit too high off the ground for their size, and I'd like to make my basic drones about half the height of a Crisis Suit, which is just taller than a standing Fire Warrior.

If I cut the stem, and mount it on a regular troop base, will that cause issues for tournament play?

There should be a shorter sized flying base stem, perfect for your need.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Flying-Stems-with-32mm-Flying-Bases

Stealth suits would be a tax if they didnt get the mirror benefit. Since they do, they are just as nasty as the Ghosts are to vehicles.

Aside from a few walkers, land raiders, or monoliths, what has higher than AV11 rear? For that matter, very few even have 11 rear. Our bursts can hurt av10/11, so each Stealthsuit adds 4 potential glances to the mix.
Only reason the stealthsuits arent on the same level is obviously less firepower (4 S5 shots vs 6 S7 + 4 S5 or 1 S8 Melta) but also the toughness.
Ive fielded a ghostkeel duo in several games without the OSC. They almost never take damage until something catches them in assult, and even then its iffy. Stealth suits on the other hand, i seldom have the buggers live more than a couple turns.

 Jancoran wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
You see stealthsuits as a tax? Thats weird. Common, but weird. The Stealthsuits are extremely useful.

Only useful when they get all the buffs (+1 BS, Ignore cover, always hit rear of vehicles) from OSC formation. Otherwise they are just an ok unit; so a tax. The point is the formation is so good beaus of how good the ghost keels become and the buff to stealth suits. If the ghost keel dies then the stealth suits are no longer that great.

Stealthsuits hit on 2's, wound on 3's against MEQ (because Markerlights are in fact a Tau thing), they fire 24 shots, and they can fire them with Precision shot if you want them to. They can get great saves and their only real downside is they are Tough 3. That's about it.

So I took two full squads. I did switch out two with Meltas, so they had two of those and 4 Burst Cannons. I was able to kill an important Psyker with Precision shots and a Sergeant. Both were important to nerfing the enemy unit. I added a Triple-Keel unit. my big mistake was not putting a bonding knife on the Keels. Lersson learned. collectively they rolled the right flank and kept coming. Even in a game where i more or less failed every save I was given the opportunity to fail, they still gave me excellent board control.

So yeah I can't see taking just 2x3 Stealthsuits just to boost one Ghostkeel.

So while I get what you're going for, I don't really think that's good. For the same 90 points as 12 shots from the Stealthsuits, you can pay 90points for 10 shots at the same strength and AP, but at almost double the range of 30", and those 10 shots turn in to 20 at a slightly shorter range of 15".

Stealthsuits aren't bad, they just don't particularly do anything special for their points and unit slot :/.

 Jancoran wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
You see stealthsuits as a tax? Thats weird. Common, but weird. The Stealthsuits are extremely useful.

Only useful when they get all the buffs (+1 BS, Ignore cover, always hit rear of vehicles) from OSC formation. Otherwise they are just an ok unit; so a tax. The point is the formation is so good beaus of how good the ghost keels become and the buff to stealth suits. If the ghost keel dies then the stealth suits are no longer that great.

Stealthsuits hit on 2's, wound on 3's against MEQ (because Markerlights are in fact a Tau thing), they fire 24 shots, and they can fire them with Precision shot if you want them to. They can get great saves and their only real downside is they are Tough 3. That's about it.

So I took two full squads. I did switch out two with Meltas, so they had two of those and 4 Burst Cannons. I was able to kill an important Psyker with Precision shots and a Sergeant. Both were important to nerfing the enemy unit. I added a Triple-Keel unit. my big mistake was not putting a bonding knife on the Keels. Lersson learned. collectively they rolled the right flank and kept coming. Even in a game where i more or less failed every save I was given the opportunity to fail, they still gave me excellent board control.

So yeah I can't see taking just 2x3 Stealthsuits just to boost one Ghostkeel.

Stealth suits normally hit on 4+ and get boosted to 3+ near ghost keels in a OSC

the other downside is they cost 30 points stock. That is extremely high if they don't have any of the boosts from OSC

 Nilok wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So what's the legal basing for a drone? I feel like the standard flying base puts them a bit too high off the ground for their size, and I'd like to make my basic drones about half the height of a Crisis Suit, which is just taller than a standing Fire Warrior.

If I cut the stem, and mount it on a regular troop base, will that cause issues for tournament play?

There should be a shorter sized flying base stem, perfect for your need.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Flying-Stems-with-32mm-Flying-Bases

That's perfect

notredameguy10 wrote:

Stealth suits normally hit on 4+ and get boosted to 3+ near ghost keels in a OSC

the other downside is they cost 30 points stock. That is extremely high if they don't have any of the boosts from OSC

But. they are boosted by it. and they will be hitting on 2's. Delivering that many Burst cannons at a time with excellent saves is the relevant thing. Nothing i nthe Tau codex should be looked at entirely on its own.

and Wall of Mirrors on Stealthsuits producced ridiculous tank killing results.

I assume you're including the extra +1 BS from CF in your "hitting on 2s" assessment? I agree that Stealth Suits are probably worth 30 pts in an OSC, but T3 models are just way too fragile to invest much in, regardless of what save they have. Just ask Dark Eldar. It's too easy to down them with small arms. For that reason, I wouldn't ever take more than the 2x3 suits required for the formation, but that "tax" isn't so bad at all.

Surprising, but okay!

If unlimited Detachments were a thing in tournaments I could see it but as they arent, I'll probably keep doing it.

I agree with milkman. And so far have had decent success. I only have two ghost. But if I had three that is what the OSC is made for. BS5 ignore cover is amazing. The stealth for me are a tax or I put homing beacons on them and hide them for my reserves.


I dont see any reason to run colliders on them.. rakers handle all the armor they need to with more chances to ensure a kill. 18 shots to 3 possible explodes for max 9 (d3) hp off a super heavy...


Separate point.. ran the air superiority today in a DBC with allied OSC @2000 points. Wow. They came in killed a imperial SH bomber and a vendetta then cleaned house wiping out gaurd units and tanks. D3 free marker lights was also awesome. I didn't really need more then that honestly.

I intended to buy 3 ghosts before i even saw the OSC lol. Got 2 assembled and painted, the third im doing some mild/kinda heavy kitbashing on (kinda being its not actually the ghostkeel himself getting the kitbash).

The melta is pointless as a blast. You will never hit multiple vehicles with it except maybe 2 droppods that are right next to each other. Blasts to me have less accuracy than a single shot, since on a regular model a 2" scatter will miss the target. Moreso on vehicles, but not by much unless its a raider or some other big thing.

Still thing its dumb that glancing a vehicle to death is far more powerful of a tactic than exploding it imo. The CIR is superior against everything except the AV14 all around vehicles. Is there anything in this game including FW that has AV13 rear? I actually cant think of any higher than 12 that isnt a LR or Monolith

Not going to lie, I love the Ghostkeel model, and the Stealthsuits, so having an excuse to run the ladder with the former is always good.

I wouldn't say the Collider is pointless, although I much prefer the CIR. Sure, it will function as a Fusion Blaster against tanks, since like you said it probably won't hit more than one with a blast, but against non-tank targets it's still a S8, AP 1, blast weapon, which can have its uses against things with a 2+ save, especially when it ignore cover and functions as a blast so the to hit isn't as bad. Basically it's probably better against Invis Deathstars than tanks.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Not going to lie, I love the Ghostkeel model, and the Stealthsuits, so having an excuse to run the ladder with the former is always good.

I wouldn't say the Collider is pointless, although I much prefer the CIR. Sure, it will function as a Fusion Blaster against tanks, since like you said it probably won't hit more than one with a blast, but against non-tank targets it's still a S8, AP 1, blast weapon, which can have its uses against things with a 2+ save, especially when it ignore cover and functions as a blast so the to hit isn't as bad. Basically it's probably better against Invis Deathstars than tanks.

lol well that 100% depends if you are using ITC rules or not. Normally, you cannot even fire blast at anything invisible. With ITC rules you can.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Not going to lie, I love the Ghostkeel model, and the Stealthsuits, so having an excuse to run the ladder with the former is always good.

I wouldn't say the Collider is pointless, although I much prefer the CIR. Sure, it will function as a Fusion Blaster against tanks, since like you said it probably won't hit more than one with a blast, but against non-tank targets it's still a S8, AP 1, blast weapon, which can have its uses against things with a 2+ save, especially when it ignore cover and functions as a blast so the to hit isn't as bad. Basically it's probably better against Invis Deathstars than tanks.

lol well that 100% depends if you are using ITC rules or not. Normally, you cannot even fire blast at anything invisible. With ITC rules you can.

Well yea, of course, but I just generally default to ITC when considering things.

It's probably even better than regular shooting as a blast when using ITC rules.

Used an OSC today. Even the Stealth Suits killed stuff, but the Ghostkeels cleaned off important things. I deep struck them, though.

Vineheart01 wrote:Stealth suits would be a tax if they didnt get the mirror benefit. Since they do, they are just as nasty as the Ghosts are to vehicles.

Aside from a few walkers, land raiders, or monoliths, what has higher than AV11 rear?

Sicaran

Hokay folks, question time.

Hunter Contingent 1500pts with;

Marko (dual MP) +1 drone, 2 riptides, ghostkeel, stormsurge, 2 drone squads, 3 bare strikes and 2 pathfinder squads (spare points?)

Riptides have EWO and fusion, 1 has VT. Storm surge has EWO/VT/Shield/ABFP.Ghostkeel has EWO and Fusion.

Should I swap out the 2nd riptide (and the ghostkeel) for a OSC, bought as an AUX choice from the Hunter Cont.

Thoughts?

What's up with the two drone squads and two pathfinder units? I feel like those could easily make up the points for two minimal squads of Stealth Suits, since you already have a Ghostkeel.

 Tinkrr wrote:
What's up with the two drone squads and two pathfinder units? I feel like those could easily make up the points for two minimal squads of Stealth Suits, since you already have a Ghostkeel.

He needs marker light support and thats what those are for

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
What's up with the two drone squads and two pathfinder units? I feel like those could easily make up the points for two minimal squads of Stealth Suits, since you already have a Ghostkeel.

He needs marker light support and thats what those are for

That's a lot of Markerlights, especially with a Mark'o. The OSC itself offers a pseudo Markerlight source as it gives +1BS and ignores cover, as that equates to about three Markerlights against a target unit for the OSC itself.

Additionally, if those are all Markerlight platforms, why not just go with a Drone Network, as it's generally better than Pathfinders in most ways.

Edit: The VT on the Riptide is probably also an ok place to shave some points D:

It's tricky, it gets very tight @ 1500pts.

1) You need to field a 'Fast Attack' option + an Auxiliary choice, ala 2 drones squads

2) With the points I had left over, it was either one drone squad + change or two pathfinder squads. Still, not as expensive as a Drone-Net and a Drone-Net doesn't account for mandatory purchases.

I don't quite know how I've done it but the new list features an OSC with 2 ghostkeels (fusion/EWO) at the expense of 1 drone squad, 1 pathfinder squad and a riptide.

notredameguy10 wrote:

lol well that 100% depends if you are using ITC rules or not. Normally, you cannot even fire blast at anything invisible. With ITC rules you can.

How so? As I understand it blasts target everything in ITC.

,normal RAW you can target primary unit and have a blast overlap an invisible unit. And templates.

That same situation would not work as they both would be targeted in ITC. The only way you could is if a blast 100% scatters onto them.

Razerous wrote:
It's tricky, it gets very tight @ 1500pts.

1) You need to field a 'Fast Attack' option + an Auxiliary choice, ala 2 drones squads

2) With the points I had left over, it was either one drone squad + change or two pathfinder squads. Still, not as expensive as a Drone-Net and a Drone-Net doesn't account for mandatory purchases.

I don't quite know how I've done it but the new list features an OSC with 2 ghostkeels (fusion/EWO) at the expense of 1 drone squad, 1 pathfinder squad and a riptide.

With Mark'O one larger squad of drones is better than 2 smaller squads if possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

lol well that 100% depends if you are using ITC rules or not. Normally, you cannot even fire blast at anything invisible. With ITC rules you can.

How so? As I understand it blasts target everything in ITC.

,normal RAW you can target primary unit and have a blast overlap an invisible unit. And templates.

That same situation would not work as they both would be targeted in ITC. The only way you could is if a blast 100% scatters onto them.

Invis is snapfire only, so you cannot target invis with blasts. ITC changed invis to BS1 instead so blasts work

Razerous wrote:
It's tricky, it gets very tight @ 1500pts.

1) You need to field a 'Fast Attack' option + an Auxiliary choice, ala 2 drones squads

2) With the points I had left over, it was either one drone squad + change or two pathfinder squads. Still, not as expensive as a Drone-Net and a Drone-Net doesn't account for mandatory purchases.

I don't quite know how I've done it but the new list features an OSC with 2 ghostkeels (fusion/EWO) at the expense of 1 drone squad, 1 pathfinder squad and a riptide.

Well you do cover the auxiliary choice with the OSC if you decide to take it, so that reduces the mandatory drone squads in theory. Additionally you can cut the drone on the Mark'O and join him with a drone squad of Marker Drones to fill the fast attack option.

That means you basically get 88 points from the pathfinder squads and 56 from the cut drone unit. That means you need only 36 more points to get the minimum OSC choice. Well, actually 24 points since you can cut the drone on the Mark'O, and without the VT you're basically there D:

Just sayin'.