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Its also 150pts for those 6 drones. I'd rather field a Hammerhead, which is the same cost, and have either an S10 single shot or S6 large blast from across the board.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
The problem with Shielded Missile Drones isn't that they are easier to kill, it's that they're 25 points for a Missile Pod. A Missile Pod simply isn't worth the 25pts when we have so many possible options of gaining one in other places, and the extra cost is from the Shield Generator, which you never really want to use as you'll try to body block with the Riptide, or simply JSJ out of range.

There will usually just be a better place to gain Missile Pod equivalent shots than the Shielded Drones due to points cost.

Normally I would agree with that. I was just putting it out there that it could be worth the points if used in an alpha strike Riptide Wing in which it gets double the shots for one turn as well as an auto +1BS from Drone Net

The problem is that you're then putting 10pts of value into the extra double shot you get that one time, which could almost be used to just buy another Missile Pod somewhere else.

It just seems like a tactical turret, or Missile Drones on Broadsides, or well anything else is just more point efficient in the long run :/.

 Tinkrr wrote:
The problem with Shielded Missile Drones isn't that they are easier to kill, it's that they're 25 points for a Missile Pod. A Missile Pod simply isn't worth the 25pts when we have so many possible options of gaining one in other places, and the extra cost is from the Shield Generator, which you never really want to use as you'll try to body block with the Riptide, or simply JSJ out of range.

There will usually just be a better place to gain Missile Pod equivalent shots than the Shielded Drones due to points cost.

This. Two shielded missile drones gives you 2 missile pods at BS2, with T4 and 1W each and a 4++ invulnerable save and costs 50 points.

For 52 points you can have a Crisis suit with 2 missile pods. It is BS3, T4 and 2W with a 3+ armour save.

If the missile drone suffers an unsaved wound, you now only have 1 missile pod. If the Crisis suit suffers an unsaved wound (as long as it is S7-) you still have 2 missile pods.
If the missile drone suffers an unsaved wound, it'll spark a morale test for your riptide. If the crisis suit suffers an unsaved wound then nothing else happens.
The drones have to shoot at the same target as the riptide, unless you use a hardpoint to give the riptide a target lock, in which case you're not using it for an EWO, VT or Stims. Crisis is on its own so no worries there.
The missile drones are more survivable against single shot S8+ as if they take a wound you only lose one drone whereas the crisis loses both wounds.
The missile drones are more survivable against AP3-.
The crisis suit is more survivable against AP4+.
The crisis suit is free to move anywhere, the drones have to stick with the riptide, which may result in them being out of range of the enemy they want to shoot at.

Let's be realistic, Drones are basically BS3 now with the Drone Net, so we can generally assume they're at that value if we're talking about special Drones.

I played in a local 1850 point RTT yesterday. The format was ITC and the missions were ITC 1,2, and 3. I'm taking my Tau to LVO this year and saw this tournament as a good opportunity for some practice with the missions and the new Tau codex. Below is the list I used:

Tau Dawn Blade Contingent (Primary detachment)
Core: Retaliation Cadre
Commander (warlord) w/ 2x Fusion blaster
1 Crisis Suit w/ 2x Fusion blaster
1 Crisis Suit w/ 2x Plasma rifle
1 Crisis Suit with 2x Plasma rifle
1 Riptide with Ion accelerator, twin-linked plasma rifle and early warning override
1 Broadside with High yield missiles and smart missiles and early warning override

Auxiliary: Drone-net
4x marker drone
4x marker drone
4x marker drone
4x marker drone

Auxiliary: Piranha Firestream Wing
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon and 2x seeker missiles
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon and 2x seeker missiles
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon and 2x seeker missiles
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon and 2x seeker missiles

Auxiliary: Piranha Firestream Wing
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon
1 Piranha w/ burst cannon

Combined arms detachment Tau Empire
1 Ethereal
10 Kroot
10 Kroot
Void shield generator with 3 shields

Formation Tau Empire
Ghostkeel Wing
1 Ghostkeel w/ Ion raker, Twin-linked fusion blaster and early warning override
1 Ghostkeel w/ Ion raker, Twin-linked fusion blaster and early warning override
1 Ghostkeel w/ Ion raker, Twin-linked fusion blaster and early warning override

Going into the event the overall plan was for the void shield to protect my piranhas and marker drones and take advantage of the stealth bubble provided by the ghostkeels and just farm drones and fire seeker missiles when needed and let my retaliation cadre pick off tanks and other high priority targets. I took double firestream wing because 8 individual piranhas gave me a little play for piranhas to zoom across the board to cap objectives when needed.

Overall the plan worked well. I finished 3-0. I didn't bother farming drones hard my first 2 games. I think I maybe made 8 drones extra in each of those games. Game 1 was against Tau. My opponent called it turn 5 because I was way up on malestrom and still had much of my army left to jet around the board. Game 2 was against dark eldar venom spam. He couldn't get through my void shield. It was a rough game for him. It took me all 7 turns to table him. My third game on the other hand I went all out making 16 drones per turn. I was up against dark angel wolf star and needed all the fire power I could get. We made it through 3 full turns before calling the game short because of time.

Closing remarks. Killing blow is great (when I can remember to use it). 40 drones that get to re-roll wounds is awesome at pulling chunks off death stars. I will bring a void shield in all my lists. and who cares about jinking when you just fly off the board next turn.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
The problem with Shielded Missile Drones isn't that they are easier to kill, it's that they're 25 points for a Missile Pod. A Missile Pod simply isn't worth the 25pts when we have so many possible options of gaining one in other places, and the extra cost is from the Shield Generator, which you never really want to use as you'll try to body block with the Riptide, or simply JSJ out of range.

There will usually just be a better place to gain Missile Pod equivalent shots than the Shielded Drones due to points cost.

This. Two shielded missile drones gives you 2 missile pods at BS2, with T4 and 1W each and a 4++ invulnerable save and costs 50 points.

For 52 points you can have a Crisis suit with 2 missile pods. It is BS3, T4 and 2W with a 3+ armour save.

If the missile drone suffers an unsaved wound, you now only have 1 missile pod. If the Crisis suit suffers an unsaved wound (as long as it is S7-) you still have 2 missile pods.
If the missile drone suffers an unsaved wound, it'll spark a morale test for your riptide. If the crisis suit suffers an unsaved wound then nothing else happens.
The drones have to shoot at the same target as the riptide, unless you use a hardpoint to give the riptide a target lock, in which case you're not using it for an EWO, VT or Stims. Crisis is on its own so no worries there.
The missile drones are more survivable against single shot S8+ as if they take a wound you only lose one drone whereas the crisis loses both wounds.
The missile drones are more survivable against AP3-.
The crisis suit is more survivable against AP4+.
The crisis suit is free to move anywhere, the drones have to stick with the riptide, which may result in them being out of range of the enemy they want to shoot at.

yeah... got a few things wrong there

SMD are T6
SMD are BS3 with the drone net that I mentioned


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tinkrr wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
The problem with Shielded Missile Drones isn't that they are easier to kill, it's that they're 25 points for a Missile Pod. A Missile Pod simply isn't worth the 25pts when we have so many possible options of gaining one in other places, and the extra cost is from the Shield Generator, which you never really want to use as you'll try to body block with the Riptide, or simply JSJ out of range.

There will usually just be a better place to gain Missile Pod equivalent shots than the Shielded Drones due to points cost.

Normally I would agree with that. I was just putting it out there that it could be worth the points if used in an alpha strike Riptide Wing in which it gets double the shots for one turn as well as an auto +1BS from Drone Net

The problem is that you're then putting 10pts of value into the extra double shot you get that one time, which could almost be used to just buy another Missile Pod somewhere else.

It just seems like a tactical turret, or Missile Drones on Broadsides, or well anything else is just more point efficient in the long run :/.

Keep in mind with 3 riptides in front of them there is a very strong chance that you will not be losing many if any of them during the course of your game. the same cannot be said of missile drones with broadsides which die much easier

Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I posted a DBC Ret Cader + Drone-Net + Piranha Firestream in the Army list forum, but can't seems to have disappeared. I'll posted it here to show a maxed Firestream wing:

+++ Drone Factory (1850pts) +++

+Retaliation Cadre (930pts)+
Commander Crisis Suit, Drone Controller, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip
1x Riptide Battlesuit, Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Shielded Missile Drone, Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Smart Missile System
1x Crisis Battlesuit, Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Early Warning Override, 2x MV1 Gun Drone
1x Crisis Battlesuit, Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Early Warning Override, 2x MV1 Gun Drone
1x Crisis Battlesuit, Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Early Warning Override, 2x MV1 Gun Drone
3x Broadside Battlesuit, Bonding Knife Ritual, 6x Missile Drone, Target Lock, Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System


+Drone Net XV1-0 (280pts)+
5x Marker Drone
5x Marker Drone
5x Marker Drone
5x Marker Drone


Piranha Firestream Wing (640pts)
1x Piranha, 2x Gun Drone, Burst Cannon
5x Piranha, 2x Gun Drone, Burst Cannon
5x Piranha, 2x Gun Drone, Burst Cannon
5x Piranha, 2x Gun Drone, Burst Cannon


Totals: 90 models, 66 Drones, up to 128-192 additional spawned Drones over 5-7 turns.


SJ

If you want to take the DBC, you cannot take the Tau Empire (book) Signature Wargear. So no PENchip and Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite.

Well, I did say I couldn't find the actual list I had previously posted, so posted that one as an example as it was still in a word doc on my phone. The correct DBC list is in my Battlescribe, and does not have TE sigs on the FSE Commander.

The goal of that list was to field almost 200 Drones over the course of a game, both the Drones paid for and the Drones spawned, all at BS3, and the Ret Drones BS4 on turn 2. Of course, it pushes US $2300.00 retail, so its not exactly a good buy-in for a first time Tau player.

SJ

GreaterGouda wrote:
Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

Saves are not based off an Majority. You would roll for the closest riptide until it dies and use its 2+ armor save the entire time, then move on to the next closest model. Majority is only for toughness

notredameguy10 wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

Saves are not based off an Majority. You would roll for the closest riptide until it dies and use its 2+ armor save the entire time, then move on to the next closest model. Majority is only for toughness

Which is why you place the Drones to "shield" their Riptide by being closer.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

Saves are not based off an Majority. You would roll for the closest riptide until it dies and use its 2+ armor save the entire time, then move on to the next closest model. Majority is only for toughness

Which is why you place the Drones to "shield" their Riptide by being closer.

SJ

As I previously mentioned, in a riptide wing with a drone net in your detachment, I would prefer to have my drones BEHIND the riptides, not in front of them.

Yeah you dont want drones in front of you. Morale happens.

Atowncalledmalus, do you have a picture of that? I was thinking maybe cut of 2 front piece of fb so you can get the triangle thingy?

notredameguy10 wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

Saves are not based off an Majority. You would roll for the closest riptide until it dies and use its 2+ armor save the entire time, then move on to the next closest model. Majority is only for toughness

I'm pretty sure he's specifically talking about grav weapons, in which case they would wound the unit on a 4 rather than a 2.

What's people's opinion on the neuro jammer thing?

It's extremely cheap and it looked interesting but I mostly took it in the end because I just had the points leftover and nothing else could fit. I sort of think it could be useful in some cases like really annoying scatter bikes, but obviously not as a proper counter to them; I feel the ghostkeel in the osc would do a better job at that, they're not that tough afterall just being so cheap is their main issue.

notredameguy10 wrote:


yeah... got a few things wrong there

SMD are T6
SMD are BS3 with the drone net that I mentioned

Can you tell I don't use Riptides?


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arthorn wrote:
Atowncalledmalus, do you have a picture of that? I was thinking maybe cut of 2 front piece of fb so you can get the triangle thingy?

Sorry I don't. Just moved back to Uni after the christmas holidays and all my 40K stuff got left behind

notredameguy10 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
Shielded missile drones also change the average save of a riptide/riptide unit from 2 to 4. So they help protect against grav weapons.

Saves are not based off an Majority. You would roll for the closest riptide until it dies and use its 2+ armor save the entire time, then move on to the next closest model. Majority is only for toughness

Which is why you place the Drones to "shield" their Riptide by being closer.

SJ

As I previously mentioned, in a riptide wing with a drone net in your detachment, I would prefer to have my drones BEHIND the riptides, not in front of them.

Then you are doing it wrong versus Grav. There entire point of having a positionable 4+ save is to position it for advantage, in this case to tank Grav shots. If moral is your worry, take a bonding knife.

SJ

So hey, over the weekend I was talking with some friends, and how I wanted to run a ghostkeel wing (now that I have my third). Has anyone run this yet?


I was looking at ghostwing + counterstrike cadre. Effectively with disruption pods by devilfish are getting 2+ cover saves which is nice.

Apologies if this has been answered in this thread before, but how are people feeling about the Y'Vahra and Tetras nowadays? Are they worth taking a CAD over the new Hunter Contingent? Is it worth it to take a small CAD alongside the new detachments to fit them in?

 Tarnag wrote:
Apologies if this has been answered in this thread before, but how are people feeling about the Y'Vahra and Tetras nowadays? Are they worth taking a CAD over the new Hunter Contingent? Is it worth it to take a small CAD alongside the new detachments to fit them in?

Formations do not allow them and the formations are too good not use. That is their issue. That said, I am going to start using a CAD to use tetras, as I just bought some before the update and haven't even used them yet =/

They are still an excellent source of markerlights, and definitely viable still. Since I think FW blanket made all rules 40k approved, the Y'Vahra is definitely awesome. Again though, you need the CAD "tax" to bring one.

 Tarnag wrote:
Apologies if this has been answered in this thread before, but how are people feeling about the Y'Vahra and Tetras nowadays? Are they worth taking a CAD over the new Hunter Contingent? Is it worth it to take a small CAD alongside the new detachments to fit them in?

lately I've been running a CAD with a Mark'O, a squad of Kroot and a squad of Strikers, the Y'Vahra, a Stormsurge, and a Riptide Wing and a Drone Net. It works really well.

Tetras are still regarded as one of our best ML platforms, but since we are in a formation heavy world now its rather difficult to bring them sometimes.
Y'vahra is still borderline bull**** powerful. Again though, excluded from formations.

Thats the main complaint i have about the formations in general. It makes those of us with FW models suffer a bit, since theyre usually difficult to bring now. Not much of an issue with larger games but in typical 1850pt games fielding any FW models + formations can be iffy.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tetras are still regarded as one of our best ML platforms, but since we are in a formation heavy world now its rather difficult to bring them sometimes.
Y'vahra is still borderline bull**** powerful. Again though, excluded from formations.

Thats the main complaint i have about the formations in general. It makes those of us with FW models suffer a bit, since theyre usually difficult to bring now. Not much of an issue with larger games but in typical 1850pt games fielding any FW models + formations can be iffy.

It is for this reason I wish they would make an allied detachment different. Call it like a recon detachment or something, and remove objective secured as a bonus. But then you can run 1 HQ, 1troop, other stuff! Without needing a full CAD.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tetras are still regarded as one of our best ML platforms, but since we are in a formation heavy world now its rather difficult to bring them sometimes.
Y'vahra is still borderline bull**** powerful. Again though, excluded from formations.

Thats the main complaint i have about the formations in general. It makes those of us with FW models suffer a bit, since theyre usually difficult to bring now. Not much of an issue with larger games but in typical 1850pt games fielding any FW models + formations can be iffy.

It is for this reason I wish they would make an allied detachment different. Call it like a recon detachment or something, and remove objective secured as a bonus. But then you can run 1 HQ, 1troop, other stuff! Without needing a full CAD.

You can take an allied detachment without a CAD... It's it's own detachment from which you cannot pick your warlord from, that is all.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tetras are still regarded as one of our best ML platforms, but since we are in a formation heavy world now its rather difficult to bring them sometimes.
Y'vahra is still borderline bull**** powerful. Again though, excluded from formations.

Thats the main complaint i have about the formations in general. It makes those of us with FW models suffer a bit, since theyre usually difficult to bring now. Not much of an issue with larger games but in typical 1850pt games fielding any FW models + formations can be iffy.

It is for this reason I wish they would make an allied detachment different. Call it like a recon detachment or something, and remove objective secured as a bonus. But then you can run 1 HQ, 1troop, other stuff! Without needing a full CAD.

You can take an allied detachment without a CAD... It's it's own detachment from which you cannot pick your warlord from, that is all.

Correct, but it also has the restriction that you cannot bring an allied detachment that includes models of the army of your primary detachment. So you can't bring a Tau Hunter Contingent and Allie a Tau force..

Unless I am wrong??!!!!! ***suddenly feeling hopeful***

Thats the way it was worded before and i assume is still worded as such. Would be rather surprised to have it be worded otherwise though that would be very useful.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tetras are still regarded as one of our best ML platforms, but since we are in a formation heavy world now its rather difficult to bring them sometimes.
Y'vahra is still borderline bull**** powerful. Again though, excluded from formations.

Thats the main complaint i have about the formations in general. It makes those of us with FW models suffer a bit, since theyre usually difficult to bring now. Not much of an issue with larger games but in typical 1850pt games fielding any FW models + formations can be iffy.

It is for this reason I wish they would make an allied detachment different. Call it like a recon detachment or something, and remove objective secured as a bonus. But then you can run 1 HQ, 1troop, other stuff! Without needing a full CAD.

You can take an allied detachment without a CAD... It's it's own detachment from which you cannot pick your warlord from, that is all.

Correct, but it also has the restriction that you cannot bring an allied detachment that includes models of the army of your primary detachment. So you can't bring a Tau Hunter Contingent and Allie a Tau force..

Unless I am wrong??!!!!! ***suddenly feeling hopeful***

You could ally in a Farsight Enclaves detachment. One ethereal and one suit would fulfill the requirement.

DirtyDeeds wrote:


You could ally in a Farsight Enclaves detachment. One ethereal and one suit would fulfill the requirement.

I still don't think that would work, as an FSE detachment is still models from codex tau empire, which my primary detachment has. Is this correct Vineheart?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For example.. if I ran..

CAD Eldar *primary

I can also add both an Allied Tau detachment and Tau CAD, because neither are my primary detachment.

Allying in the FSE is hazy these days. The supp. itself directly says it can be allied with the Tau empire, but people have generally thrown that out the window when multiple CADs appeared.

TECHNICALLY since the FSE isnt nullified, you can still ally them in. They can take any FW models Tau Empire can because it says they use the same units, with the only exception being Bonding Knife requirement and troop Crisis suits. The FAQ still only alters the scenario stuff, the talisman for 7th psychic phase, and a typo.

Be ready to get a ton of flak if you do that though. Imperials cant do that so it cant be legal, right?