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 Wilson wrote:
anyone ran the supremacy suit? I'm figuring out a decent list at 1500 and have no idea what would work with it.

clues!

I haven't played one yet, nor against one (my brother owns one, the only person a know with one in my local circle, and has yet to field it). However, if I were to field one at 1500 points, I'd take a FSE EWO Monat CAD and a Drone-Net, and play the Supremacy suit as the center point with the rest screening and/or popping drop melta/grav.

SJ

Run a Ta'unar in 1500pts? i'd be surprised if anyone would even attempt to play that. The Ta'unar is Titan level of op, its not AS powerful in apoc games but in nonapoc games its just unfair.

Intending to get one with my tax returns this year, but i suspect to not use it very often since i dont bring supers below 2k

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Run a Ta'unar in 1500pts? i'd be surprised if anyone would even attempt to play that. The Ta'unar is Titan level of op, its not AS powerful in apoc games but in nonapoc games its just unfair.

Intending to get one with my tax returns this year, but i suspect to not use it very often since i dont bring supers below 2k

It's for UK GT final. So, it's there for competition.

Ah, thats different. Tournaments you expect utter cheese, not fluffy fun lists.

Peregrim wrote:


What can they do better than Crisis suits?

AP1 gives them an advantage against AV. Against AV10 without ML support, three of them have a 30% chance of rolling an Explodes! on the damage table (increases to 44% at BS5). But a single 2x Fusion Crisis within Melta range matches their likelihood of rolling an Explodes! result without support (30%) and beats it with support (46%) at a lower cost. Fusion is significantly more effective against higher AV. Against targets with good Armour Saves (where AP1 v. AP2 is irrelevant) they face similar competition from 2x Plasma suits.

The advantage of range (I compared 15" for the rail rifle v. 9" for fusion and 12" for plasma) shouldn't be discounted, I guess. Also there is value to versatility. However at a price point of two rail rifle Pathfinders to a Crisis suit, you're getting the same number of Wounds but the Crisis suit has better survivability and mobility. It's interesting how you use drones to add extra survivability to the Pathfinders - that can force your opponent to either over-commit to ensure that they are dead (which protects the rest of your army) or risk leaving the dangerous models alive. but then the pathfinder units become a massive points investment.

Deployment options maybe? Deep Strike lets you deploy pretty much anywhere on the table whereas Outflank requires you to come in from a board edge. For consistency in deploying from Reserves, Positional Relay is more accessible than Homing Beacon. Positional Relay offers the flexibility of both the unit on the table and the unit arriving from Reserves to be anywhere along the board edge (and can open up two board edges) whereas Homing Beacon must be near where you want to drop your suits.

I'm not convinced they are worth their points. If they were cheaper and you weren't limited to 3 to a squad or if they had a longer range, then I might consider running them.

You kind of answered your own question:

Better Range
Haywire Grenades. Crisis team can't carry them. Most reliable way to get a hull point I know of.
Has deployment options Crisis teams don't have.
Versatile enough to take out any TYPE of target, at all.

Enemies are conditioned to play a certain way. Their armies inform this even more. Terrain certainly does. A flexible force that can essentially morph its strategy to fit those things is invaluable. That they COULD fire Markerlights if pressed into service for that is just gravy but I don't think I'd use them as Markerlight caddies, as I've mentioned.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ah, thats different. Tournaments you expect utter cheese, not fluffy fun lists.

Indeed. The fun side of tournaments is more the social experience rather than the games. Games are there for winning.

So, back to topic - best way to compliment a supremecy. My current list runs like this;


+++ Tau (1500pts) +++

++ Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Commander [2x MV7 Marker Drone]
XV8 Commander Crisis Suit [Drone Controller, Missile Pod]

+ Elites +

XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
Riptide Shas'vre [Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [10x Kroot]

Kroot Carnivores [10x Kroot]

+ Fast Attack +

Drones [4x MV7 Marker Drone]

+ Lord of War +

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour [Fusion Eradicator, Tri-axis Ion Cannon]

++ Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Piranha Firestream Wing
TX4 Piranha [Fusion Blaster, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranhas
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranhas
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranhas
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missile]

I like the pirhana for flooding the board with denial drones and additional units. They also provide fast scoring units. Riptides babysit the supremecy nicely with interceptor.

I'm concious that my market light support is limited so would probably deepstrike the commander and drones- maybe even let them walk on.

Kroot outflank.

My concern is that the main damage output comes from the riptide & supremecy and there is for sure going to be some eldar games. ( total of 6 games)

What other formations would fit 1500 and compliment the supremecy?

Considering it cant benefit from formation perks, Drone Net is about all i can think of. Technically the Ghost Wing can give it stealth anyway, but does it even need stealth? lol

Drone Net for marker support basically. Would couple with the piranha drone factory too for +1BS. Ta'unar doesnt need AS much marker support as the SS since it doesnt devour marks for a D missile and it has good BS on its own, but ignores cover is still a wonderful thing.

Keep in mind that drones aren't scoring and cannot deny objectives.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Keep in mind that drones aren't scoring and cannot deny objectives.

They aren't scoring but they are still denial units, aren't they?

Unless 7th changed how Denial unit works, drones can still deny. Tau codex only says units composed entirely of drones are non-scoring units. Says nothing about non-denial.

If it's not a scoring unit, then it cannot prevent an enemy scoring unit from claiming the objective (i.e. it is not a denial unit).

I'd say the fun side of tournaments is both the social aspect and the games, as the games tend to feel closer and more alive. There's just something about playing weaker units that leaves the game feeling sluggish and clunky, which I don't really get at tournament play.

It's also something I noticed in bat reps, despite the Frontline gaming ones being longer they tend to hold my attention more than the MiniWargaming ones which generally have better editing and a faster pace. Not to say I dislike them, just I tend to tune out after a while, and sometimes the narrative stuff is fun, but too often it's a little too one sided which is a bummer.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I'd say the fun side of tournaments is both the social aspect and the games, as the games tend to feel closer and more alive. There's just something about playing weaker units that leaves the game feeling sluggish and clunky, which I don't really get at tournament play.

It's also something I noticed in bat reps, despite the Frontline gaming ones being longer they tend to hold my attention more than the MiniWargaming ones which generally have better editing and a faster pace. Not to say I dislike them, just I tend to tune out after a while, and sometimes the narrative stuff is fun, but too often it's a little too one sided which is a bummer.

I'll be playing on their Stream again next week with my Tau, you guys should check it out.

Is Farsighted Bomb still a viable play style with Tau?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is Farsighted Bomb still a viable play style with Tau?

Well sort of. Farsight is no longer needed so its not really a "farsight bomb". You can now take 9 Crisis Suits in the same squad without farsight.

Which character would be more valuable to a crisis bomb: Shadowsun or Farsight?

Peregrim wrote:
If it's not a scoring unit, then it cannot prevent an enemy scoring unit from claiming the objective (i.e. it is not a denial unit).

As i suspected they did change it slightly in 7th. In 6th, only troops were scoring units but everything could deny except Swarms or other units explicitly denied it.
7th changed it to mention "models from your scoring units" when regarding to objective holding and denial. So a nonscoring unit cant deny anymore by default.

Well, that kinda sucks. Then again i almost never have this come into play anyway.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Peregrim wrote:
If it's not a scoring unit, then it cannot prevent an enemy scoring unit from claiming the objective (i.e. it is not a denial unit).

As i suspected they did change it slightly in 7th. In 6th, only troops were scoring units but everything could deny except Swarms or other units explicitly denied it.
7th changed it to mention "models from your scoring units" when regarding to objective holding and denial. So a nonscoring unit cant deny anymore by default.

Well, that kinda sucks. Then again i almost never have this come into play anyway.

If they hadn't changed it, then the current codex would have listed drones as "non-scoring, non-denial" - just as the previous codex did.

Peregrim wrote:
Which character would be more valuable to a crisis bomb: Shadowsun or Farsight?

Well Shadowsuns inborn Warlord ability is pretty darn useful for that.

Doesn't Farsight stop it from scattering? Though that's not a hard thing to fix with some support.

Farsight is pretty much mandatory for the bomb, since their footprint is just insanely huge especially with the new base sizes. You "might" be able to squeak by with a homing beacon stealth suit team, but that would be highly risky and limit where they can land.

Problem is Farsight himself is pretty bleh. Hes strong but in the exact opposite way the Tau want strength in, so hes kinda pointless. I use him now and then but only for friendly games and not in a full fledge bomb.
Shadowsun would vastly benefit the unit more once they get on the ground. Walking 4+ cover, going to a 2+ with pretty much any cover bonus, and 3D6 jetpack movements ftw. I just dont see how you'd expect to get her down with 9 suits and a mass of drones, or even without the drones lol.
Also have the whole "infiltrate ICs cannot join noninfiltrate units during deployment" crap, even though youre deepstriking and not using that rule.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is Farsighted Bomb still a viable play style with Tau?

Farsight, as he lets you really bomb an opponent. Shadowsun is better as a fast and mobile strike team, which is interesting since both styles play into their fluff with Farsight being the sort of instant strike, while Shadowsun is more about mobility and positioning before landing the strike.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I'd say the fun side of tournaments is both the social aspect and the games, as the games tend to feel closer and more alive. There's just something about playing weaker units that leaves the game feeling sluggish and clunky, which I don't really get at tournament play.

It's also something I noticed in bat reps, despite the Frontline gaming ones being longer they tend to hold my attention more than the MiniWargaming ones which generally have better editing and a faster pace. Not to say I dislike them, just I tend to tune out after a while, and sometimes the narrative stuff is fun, but too often it's a little too one sided which is a bummer.

I'll be playing on their Stream again next week with my Tau, you guys should check it out.

Which one are you again? They've had a lot of Tau players lately, an army description will be more useful than a name D:

Were you the one who was pinned the whole game by Skyhammer? Or the one who got Stomp-e-dee-stomped? I really liked the latter game, probably one of my favourite bat reps so far as there was some really awesome strategic advise for both players.

Peregrim wrote:
If it's not a scoring unit, then it cannot prevent an enemy scoring unit from claiming the objective (i.e. it is not a denial unit).

Whilst drones are non-scoring (Also cannot contest etc.) they can prevent the opponent from capturing objectives.

Basically, the enemy models are impossible terrain, 1" distance / 'glued' base-to-base in CC.

Often a unit will approach from a vector, not 360 degrees, so roadblock/speed bump tactic will still work quite well.

Peregrim wrote:
Which character would be more valuable to a crisis bomb: Shadowsun or Farsight?

I would say Shadowsun. You're investing a lot of points into a bomb so you want to be getting the points back through kills ASAP. Shadowsun, with the 3D6" thrust move, allows you to be very fast and so you don't need to bomb in with a deep strike in order to get into range.

She also has better weapons than Farsight (two fusion blasters vs Plasma Rifle and Dawn Blade) and has an inbuilt split fire ability which allows her to fire each of her BS5 fusion blasters at a different target. Also, she confers stealth and shrouded to the bomb, giving it a 4+ cover save in the open which can be very valuable.

Hey everyone just got a Ghostkeel as I love the model and was wondering a couple of things.

Which load out should I give it?
Which formation is best for it, Wing or Cadre?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Hey everyone just got a Ghostkeel as I love the model and was wondering a couple of things.

Which load out should I give it?
Which formation is best for it, Wing or Cadre?

Optimized Stealth Cadre is simply bad ass. I'd do that (personally).

Im preparing a blog entry on the load outs which will be up soon. The load out on the Ghostkeel is a great question though. A lot ot consider on it. I like the fact that it is kind of a decision and not just an automatic.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Hey everyone just got a Ghostkeel as I love the model and was wondering a couple of things.

Which load out should I give it?
Which formation is best for it, Wing or Cadre?

The ion raker will be superior to the fusion collider against the most things (with a greater threat range to boot). I usually go with the fusion blaster as the secondary weapon but sometime swap it out with the burst cannon if I expect a horde style list (like orks). As for support systems, EWO is too good to pass up for the price of a guardsmen, even in a OSC where you can't make use of wall of mirrors while intercepting. It's better to have interception and not need it, as opposed to needing it and not having it. Again, EWO is dirt cheap. Velocity trackers are useful if you expect a lot of flyers and target locks are virtually mandatory if you are running a squadron of more than 1 ghostkeel. I usually run a single ghostkeel with ion raker, fusion blaster, ewo and velocity tracker. If I run a squadron of multiple ghostkeels I still give them ion rakers, fusion blasters and ewo's but I substitute the velocity trackers for target locks.

As for which formation is best between the ghostkeel wing and the OSC, the OSC will generally be the superior choice. Wall of mirrors BS boost will benefit the entire formation (regardless of what the units are targeting) whereas the wing needs to fire the first ghostkeel squad with no BS boost and then for the other ghostkeels to get the BS boost they have to fire at the same target which isn't always the wisest choice. Having built in ignores cover and always hitting the rear armour of vehicles is incredibly potent and the OSC can be taken as part of a hunter contingent and benefit from the command benefits as icing on the cake, whereas the ghostkeel wing is not actually part of the hunter contingent or the dawn blade. The wing's ability to ignore overwatch is circumstantially useful, but for the most part, you won't want them in assault. The only reason to really take the wing over the OSC is for the stealth bonus, which can be decent if you build a list around it. As discussed earlier giving stealth to drones from a drone net allows the drones (that can simultaneously jink and go to ground) to get a 2+ cover save in the open.

Hope that helps!

 Frozocrone wrote:
Hey everyone just got a Ghostkeel as I love the model and was wondering a couple of things.

Which load out should I give it?
Which formation is best for it, Wing or Cadre?

CIR > Fusion gun any day every day. If it was 3shot fusions instead of a small blast, i'd say its a tough choice between the two. One small blast that wants a vehicle target isnt going to do squat compared to 6 S7 shots. Its literally AV14 vehicles that prefer you use the CIB, and how often are they around?
Bursts or Fusions for the secondary gun is usually up to points to me. I see valid reasons for both, though Fusions are my usual go-to

As for the loadout, that depends. I tend to give them Stimpacks and Counterfire, but i havent run them in a formation yet and i like to be burly with'm (i.e. assault) so the stims get used a lot. If you use them in the OSC, you can EASILY outfit them to be one hell of a nasty AA platform.

OSC is just nasty. Even the stealthsuits in the formation become a major threat since they get all the goodies too. This is why i said the Bursts or Fusions is more of a point thing to me, 4 S5 shots hitting rear armor is just about as nasty as a single Melta against all except the few AV12 rear vehicles (or higher). I'd still take the fusions if i have the points, since the melta adds a wider range of targets.

Ghostkeel Wing is more support than primary force. They get the cascading +1BS perk the Riptide Wing has, but its nowhere near as crazy as the OSC. Still, granting a huge bubble of Stealth is more than sexy. Our vehicles already have a 3+ jink from Dpods, add a Ghost Wing and suddenly 2+ jinks! or improve pathfinder survivability and/or other squishy things.
Problem is its 3 ghostkeel "units" so they will devour markerlights if you want to give them any, as they cannot be taken as an Aux for either of our big formations for Coord Fire. Also means they dont get Fire Team bonus. Giving them ignores cover will be a problem too. OSC is awesome even with a single ghostkeel, but if you run 3 in a unit...holy crap the firepower rofl

I ran three. its damn fun.

with the ready access of Interceptor and the fact that drone nets gain it as well, has anyone considered focusing on interceptor and only shooting in the shooting phase as a secondary option to a running redeployment?