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Well all this prooves that someone in GW managment has an IQ over 70. I wonder who it is, and whyi t took so log for the rest to allow the one person to see the obvious to be able to do it.

I will be generous and admit there might even be two non-morons.

 Kirasu wrote:

draftamike wrote:
Necromunda: Glad I held on to all my gangs, bulkheads, and cardstock buildings all these years....kind of excited to see this come to fruition.

But why would you use that kind of terrain nowadays? Buy Mantic city terrain or anything else to make bulkhead littered cities.. This is sorta my issue with rereleasing specialist games as there are tons of people that are nostalgic for these games yet what was stopping people from playing them? Unfortunately, the rules for mordheim and necromunda are both A) Totally outdated and B) Pretty terrible when you play dozens of games with them.. as an above poster said, the campaign system literally breaks down at a very early level. Even Bloodbowl got extremely repetitive mid-season simply due to over half the teams being functionally useless compared to any team with base AGI 4 or stunty

If GW is serious about these systems they need to realize why people barely played (yet vocally supported) these games. Releasing new models won't cut it when there are tons of city-fight skirmish games already out there and, of course, Dreadball.

Fair enough, but now you're comparing games from the mid-90s to stuff produced almost 20 years later. I'm curious to see how GW will revive those games. I'd imagine they'd update the rules and models. And whilst the competitions is producing some interesting stuff, I still have a feeling that GW can blow a lot of them away. Mantic have very interesting terrain, but their Warpath/Deadzone models scream 2nd edition 40k nostalgia. The often mentioned Judge Dredd models look as if they've been sculpted in the Rogue Trader era. Troublemaker games did some really cool 6mm stuff, but their prints were quite rough, same goes for the fan-made models AAN has been painting. So I'm very curious to see what the big boys will be able to do with that kinda stuff.

All the minis shown are 6mm, they are mostly fanbuild unofficial and NOT for sale.

They are only meant as an example what Epic could look like these days!

squats for epic again please?

wishful thinking...

no mention of warmaster though

Will GW expand the store website or will there be a new site for these specialists games? Like FW or BL?

 AAN wrote:
All the minis shown are 6mm, they are mostly fanbuild unofficial and NOT for sale.

They are only meant as an example what Epic could look like these days!

Thanks for the clarification. When you used the word "teaser", it seemed like you were implying they were preview pics of upcoming epic minis.

Those are fanmade ? My god I want them all, so beautiful gimme gimme !

If you can make models like that you might want to contact GW; they've just opened up a studio that might have a job opportunity for you!

All the new jobs for SG just went up and it appears the rainbows and uncornfarts just ended.

In fact it is the worst news possible as they are looking for a lead for the studio who has a bussines and accounting background like the main GW studio.

So they are effectively by definition killing forgeworld and have managed to get people to cheer about it .

In fact the job descriptions are pretty depressing and look like them doubling down on the polices that brought us AoS and the current 40k ruleset.

The new studio will have access to high scale production channels in the company. Of course it needs a head with business background.

FFS

Every creative enterprise needs some people with some degree of real world, grounded, practical skill.

Otherwise you end up with enterprises like Creature Caster where the sole responsibility lies with a creative and they feth off to "find themselves" halfway through the whole thing, leaving all their customers twisting.

It's perfectly sensible, otherwise we'd end up with a bunch of half finished test sculpts and unfilled ranges as all the artists got half way through then got inspired by something else completely.

I know some people are determined to make this as gloomy as possible, but don't just jump on something perfectly normal and try to spin it into something it isn't.

I will wait and see. Looks like someone at GW has been looking at Kickstarter and all the games that raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars basically feeding off the nostalgia of older GW players.

Most interested in a Warhammer Quest remake or Necromunda plastics.

SeanDrake wrote:All the new jobs for SG just went up and it appears the rainbows and uncornfarts just ended.

In fact it is the worst news possible as they are looking for a lead for the studio who has a bussines and accounting background like the main GW studio.

So they are effectively by definition killing forgeworld and have managed to get people to cheer about it .

In fact the job descriptions are pretty depressing and look like them doubling down on the polices that brought us AoS and the current 40k ruleset.

Azreal13 wrote:FFS

Every creative enterprise needs some people with some degree of real world, grounded, practical skill.

Otherwise you end up with enterprises like Creature Caster where the sole responsibility lies with a creative and they feth off to "find themselves" halfway through the whole thing, leaving all their customers twisting.

It's perfectly sensible, otherwise we'd end up with a bunch of half finished test sculpts and unfilled ranges as all the artists got half way through then got inspired by something else completely.

I know some people are determined to make this as gloomy as possible, but don't just jump on something perfectly normal and try to spin it into something it isn't.

I think we need a little from column a, and a little from column b here. The idea that this might just a way to gw-ify forgeworld isn't that surprising to me.

 Azreal13 wrote:
FFS

Every creative enterprise needs some people with some degree of real world, grounded, practical skill.

Otherwise you end up with enterprises like Creature Caster where the sole responsibility lies with a creative and they feth off to "find themselves" halfway through the whole thing, leaving all their customers twisting.

It's perfectly sensible, otherwise we'd end up with a bunch of half finished test sculpts and unfilled ranges as all the artists got half way through then got inspired by something else completely.

I know some people are determined to make this as gloomy as possible, but don't just jump on something perfectly normal and try to spin it into something it isn't.

Funny Forgeworld always seemed to manage previously and in fact it was previously stated there success was due to not doing things like the main studio.

In fact I am pretty sure you mentioned it previously.

I know some people are determind to make this about blind optimism and faith in a company that has spent a decade pissing on it's customers cherrios. But don't jump on somthing as vauge as the information provided and try and spin it into somthing it is not.

Again I repeat for me as a fan of fw this looks bad as they are being pulled into the standard GW structure wit more marketing people/corporate drones than creative people.

As every creative enterprise needs some actual creative people or you end up with dreadfleet or AoS.

Without checking, I'm pretty sure you'll find an analogous role in FW. The demand for someone to control budgets etc probably isn't there, but I bet there's some sort of non-creative oversight that keeps everything from going to gak.

Again, it's perfectly normal, perfectly sensible and no particular cause for concern.

I know some people are determind to make this about blind optimism and faith in a company that has spent a decade pissing on it's customers cherrios.

I'm not one of them, God, if you've seen even a handful of my posts you'll know my attitude towards GW in general, but I've always maintained it is neither blind hatred or devotion, and that I take each situation as it stands and react accordingly.

But don't jump on somthing as vauge as the information provided and try and spin it into somthing it is not.

Pot, meet kettle.

Seriously, you're assuming that the new studio is going to become some great corporate entity based on the fact that it'll need somebody to do the paperwork. Calm down.

Again I repeat for me as a fan of fw this looks bad as they are being pulled into the standard GW structure wit more marketing people/corporate drones than creative people.

As every creative enterprise needs some actual creative people or you end up with dreadfleet or AoS.

There's more job ads for creatives than corporates, how on earth are you jumping to that conclusion? More people, more projects, more product = greater need for administrative staff. It's a fact of near any business of any size.

I'd be more excited that a large number of people involved with FW that have proven their attitude is towards trying to preserve a good gaming experience are going to be a part of this, and less chicken little about the fact they need someone to do all the spreadsheets and paperwork.

SeanDrake wrote:
As every creative enterprise needs some actual creative people or you end up with dreadfleet or AoS.

Amusingly....the issue with Dreadfleet is that it was a creative idea rather than just knocking off an old idea and cashing in on nostalgia. People wanted Man-O-War and got a new game, so people didn't snap up copies. While the game is a tad high on the random scale, Dreadfleet is solid value in terms of components and has some very cool mechanics.

SeanDrake wrote:
All the new jobs for SG just went up and it appears the rainbows and uncornfarts just ended.

In fact it is the worst news possible as they are looking for a lead for the studio who has a bussines and accounting background like the main GW studio.

So they are effectively by definition killing forgeworld and have managed to get people to cheer about it .

In fact the job descriptions are pretty depressing and look like them doubling down on the polices that brought us AoS and the current 40k ruleset.

Obviously you've never worked in any form of production studio. There is always a project manager with a business degree who is setting up milestones, tasking artists and sculptors, attending meetings to get yelled at, returning from meetings and likely yelling at the people responsible for the area that resulted in the yelling from said meeting, assigning schedules for individual tasks, making sure the concept art for sculpt A is completed and given to Sculptor A when it's supposed to be, etc etc.
That's just how it works. As a creative, I have gone to too many meetings where I had to listen to the business person you're talking about go on and on about charts, milestones, etc.. until I got to the point that I was attending and eventually running those meetings.. it's a necessary evil to make sure large complicated projects are accomplished how and when they are supposed to be to meet deadlines. Meeting deadlines means things go on sale when they're supposed to which means funding is in place when it's supposed to be so the business can go on. You know.. the way businesses that don't rely on Kickstarter operate..

 Kirasu wrote:
But why would you use that kind of terrain nowadays?

Because that's what the game was designed for.

Necromunda terrain is great.

decker_cky wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
As every creative enterprise needs some actual creative people or you end up with dreadfleet or AoS.

Amusingly....the issue with Dreadfleet is that it was a creative idea rather than just knocking off an old idea and cashing in on nostalgia. People wanted Man-O-War and got a new game, so people didn't snap up copies. While the game is a tad high on the random scale, Dreadfleet is solid value in terms of components and has some very cool mechanics.

The issue with Dreadfleet is that it didn't have any fleets in it. If they'd stuck with two well defined themes for the two sides - like perhaps a Dwarven fleet of an Ironclad or two, a Gyrocopter Carrier and a Submarine versus a Dark Elf or Undead fleet of similar strength - then I think it would have sold better, as well as having a clear path to produce expansion packs for other fleets.

Dreadfleet was a weird mix of "a crappy version of a self contained specialist game in a box" with none of the support of expansions that made specialist games great. They killed it off before they even had the opportunity to neglect it to death.

When Dreadfleet hit, I didn't really have much interest. I wasn't overly fond of Man-O-War anyway but I think that might've been about the time I was sucked into the CHS case.. or close enough to it for me to still be really really bitter with them.
That's why I didn't buy it. I still don't think I would.. it just seems very 2-dimensional. I'd rather play BFG.

 AlexHolker wrote:

decker_cky wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
As every creative enterprise needs some actual creative people or you end up with dreadfleet or AoS.

Amusingly....the issue with Dreadfleet is that it was a creative idea rather than just knocking off an old idea and cashing in on nostalgia. People wanted Man-O-War and got a new game, so people didn't snap up copies. While the game is a tad high on the random scale, Dreadfleet is solid value in terms of components and has some very cool mechanics.

The issue with Dreadfleet is that it didn't have any fleets in it. If they'd stuck with two well defined themes for the two sides - like perhaps a Dwarven fleet of an Ironclad or two, a Gyrocopter Carrier and a Submarine versus a Dark Elf or Undead fleet of similar strength - then I think it would have sold better, as well as having a clear path to produce expansion packs for other fleets.

Your complaints here are "it didn't fit the game I wanted" (man-o-war). Dreadfleet, as a self-contained board game, was a solid product (not perfect, but good rules and great components). It was ruined by expectations created by a long defunct game.

Dread Fleet was designed as a one-box game that didn't need expansions. The rules were specific to the selection of ships in the game and wouldn't work as generic fantasy naval rules. It failed partly because a lot of people thought the rules were crap.

GW of course do have in their back catalogue fantasy and Napoleonic navy rules, Man'O'War and Trafalgar, so they could easily use these to make games and launch various fleets as expansion sets.

There is nothing wrong with a single-box complete game, though. It worked well for Space Hulk. Original first edition Spulk was a great game in itself. The first expansion added a couple of neat new weapons, these could have been included in the main box if GW weren't trying to milk the franchise to death in dribs and drabs, but they weren't needed as the first box was a great game anyway. 3rd Edition Spulk was done as a single-box game and was all the better for it, IMO. Expansions to a game are a bit like sequels to a popular film. They tend to get worse until the last one is terrible and spoils the whole thing.

Blood Bowl makes sense as a starter box plus expansion boxes for additional teams who will have different uniforms and playing styles (humans, elves, dwarves and so on.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also add that there is nothing wrong with a game being issued, selling as many as it is going to in five years and going OOP. There is a big advantage to the manufacturer, if he can get a good estimate of sales before setting his production run.

Also, there is a serious danger of a product range becoming stagnant and uncreative if the company just issues more and more expansions. This is what has happened to WHFB and 40K, IMO, and AoS is hardly a gale of fresh air, being so closely based on the other rulesets.

A series of one-off games with different subjects is a great way of revitalising the whole GW brand.

decker_cky wrote:
Your complaints here are "it didn't fit the game I wanted" (man-o-war). Dreadfleet, as a self-contained board game, was a solid product (not perfect, but good rules and great components). It was ruined by expectations created by a long defunct game.

"Solid" might be too generous a description.

decker_cky wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
The issue with Dreadfleet is that it didn't have any fleets in it. If they'd stuck with two well defined themes for the two sides - like perhaps a Dwarven fleet of an Ironclad or two, a Gyrocopter Carrier and a Submarine versus a Dark Elf or Undead fleet of similar strength - then I think it would have sold better, as well as having a clear path to produce expansion packs for other fleets.

Your complaints here are "it didn't fit the game I wanted" (man-o-war). Dreadfleet, as a self-contained board game, was a solid product (not perfect, but good rules and great components). It was ruined by expectations created by a long defunct game.

My complaint is that to convince somebody to buy a game it has to meet a certain "stuff I want" threshold, and that it's easier to meet that threshold if the contents follow a theme. Somebody who wants one Dwarf ship is more likely to want three more Dwarf ships than they are to also want a High Elf, Empire, Araby and whatever the Swordfysh was ship, which makes bundling all the ships into one product a strength rather than a weakness.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
But why would you use that kind of terrain nowadays?

Because that's what the game was designed for.

Necromunda terrain is great.

It was good for it's time, and wonderful that it came with the selection so you could play straight out of the box.

But, if you've got a few more funds to invest there is some truly stunning MDF and plastic setups around these days, made by half a dozen companies or more.

Type 'Infinity terrain board' into google, then firmly hold the sides of your head to stop your mind from being blown

migooo wrote:no mention of warmaster though

Phase 1: Buy as many 10mm sigmarines as you can.

Phase 2: Use a yard brush to sweep them into the middle of the table.

Phase 3: ???

Phase 4: Synergy!

Just a few question/thoughts...

It seems a vast amount of people here are nostalgic for those old games. If you're nostalgic for them, I'm assuming you played them at some point in the past.
If that's the case, then what happened to your game/figures? Did you sell them? Do you still have them? If you sold them, the question is why? Was the game not good enough or fun enough anymore? If you still have them, then why are you getting so excited again? For a reprint you'll have to buy with slightly altered rules? Does the original you own not work anymore? Have the old figures you bought stopped working?

I'm seriously struggling to see why everyone is so excited. OK, so I understand why some of the newer players who have heard about these "great oldies" but not had a chance to play them are getting excited. If I was one of those people though, I'd be asking if they were so great, why aren't people playing them regularly now if they're so good. It's not like GW took your rulebook and minis away when they stopped "supporting" it. It's not like other companies out there haven't carried on making suitable figures for you.

The more I read Dakka, the more I realise that mini gamers are more like CCG collectors. If a game is stopped being made, people stop playing it. They're only happy when purchasing new stuff.
Maybe GW was right stating that the main part of their HHHobby was buying GW stuff.

If the Necromunda gangs look like the OG minis and not the resculpts, just in modern plastic. God, l'll take one of each (exvept Van Saar). Don't mess up Eschers and Cawdor and Redemptionists, oh god, all the possible IG regiments, =I= warbands, chaos cultist mobs and other stuff this will spawn if they're good. I'll take TEN, if I have to.

BB with better minis. Imagine the Sauri looked like the art and especially the art from the Cyanide game. OMG. Sure, there are tons of great alt teams, but the thought of an all new official Orc team by Brian Nelson in great poses where everyone is as well done as Grimgork.

GW is going to break my heart, but it COULD be sooo good.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Just a few question/thoughts...

SGs are still played, I will be playing Necromunda later today in fact, but when GW abandoned them it became increasingly difficult to find opponents which made more people stop playing which made it harder to find opponents...

There are 2 main positives for GW reinstating SGs; a larger player base and new models. There is also a significant downside; possibly terrible 'improved' rules. I am not excited as such but I am cautiously optimistic that the best standalone games that GW ever made will be making a comeback.

A lot of people who played SGs (and this would probably have been at least 10-15 years ago remember) would still have some of their old stuff in boxes somewhere. Others would have lost or sold them but then SGs have been orphaned for a long time.