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@Skink - When you look at those little single plastic 28mm models, in the GW world, there's 4 classes of them.

At the bottom of the food chain, you have guys like snapfit marines and Space Hulk genestealers, that are very simple 2-3 part models that are pretty cheap. They are not intricate, and made to be quickly assembled and not take up a lot of space on a sprue.

Then you have your typical multipart plastic models like Tactical marines. Some of them, like Sternguard or Blood Angels Tacticals, can get *really* fancy, but most are relatively plain, but they're highly posable.

After that, you get the "less expensive" multipart heroes, like the captain and chaplain that came with Betrayal at Calth, or Sergeant Lorenzo from Dark Vengeance. They are nice models, they have premium detail and poses, but usually, they're hard to modify and less intricate than the final tier of models.

Then, you have the crazy single character models like Dominus, Chaos Lord, the new Interogator Chaplain, or the new Librarian. I mean, these guys are super-complex models that are just extremely intricate -- AND you're likely to just buy one of them.

The price for the first 3 tiers are actually really reasonable, in my opinion (they're usually not more than $10 / model). But hit the last tier, and you're up to $20-$30+. On the other hand, a large number of the last tier models can now be reasonably substituted using common kit parts.

Yes I'm aware of GW's pricing structure where characters cost more than rank and file models.

We've had lots of discussions on price and the subjectivity of price. But talking specifically about the Lord Celestant model that I mentioned, I admit it's an intelligently put together model.... but it's still only 6 pieces on a small single sprue (the entire sprue is maybe 3x5"). There's no way you can convince me that's anywhere near worth $55. There's "expensive" and then there's "batgak crazy" and that most definitely falls in to the latter category.

Players might only buy 1 of them so therefore they think they can charge more for it, but that argument only goes so far. Last week I bought a 1/72 P47 Thunderbolt for $13. It's detailed, complex, 4 sprues including clear canopy and gunsight, has decals to make one of 2 variants and lots of weapon options and I haven't counted but it's got to be at least 60 parts. The vast majority of modellers are only going to buy 1 of them and yet it was still only $13.

I think GW's pricing structure has gone from an annoyance to a serious issue of sticker shock that will affect any new blood coming in.

The Celestant price is crazy but to be fair I'm pretty sure many, many times more people buy the Thunderbolt you're talking about. They even sell that stuff in toy shops.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yes I'm aware of GW's pricing structure where characters cost more than rank and file models.

We've had lots of discussions on price and the subjectivity of price. But talking specifically about the Lord Celestant model that I mentioned, I admit it's an intelligently put together model.... but it's still only 6 pieces on a small single sprue (the entire sprue is maybe 3x5"). There's no way you can convince me that's anywhere near worth $55. There's "expensive" and then there's "batgak crazy" and that most definitely falls in to the latter category.

Players might only buy 1 of them so therefore they think they can charge more for it, but that argument only goes so far. Last week I bought a 1/72 P47 Thunderbolt for $13. It's detailed, complex, 4 sprues including clear canopy and gunsight, has decals to make one of 2 variants and lots of weapon options and I haven't counted but it's got to be at least 60 parts. The vast majority of modellers are only going to buy 1 of them and yet it was still only $13.

I think GW's pricing structure has gone from an annoyance to a serious issue of sticker shock that will affect any new blood coming in.

I thought that the new HH box was pretty cool but even at my FLGS it is still $235 aud.

That.. might be really good value for someone wanting to start a 40k army (I hear it is 1200 or so points), but for someone wanting to paint some models even the discounted price was something I kind of just gave a sad laugh and walked on. There is just so many better things I could spend that much money on if I am just going to paint them, but if I were looking to play I could get a full army for any one of a half a dozen game systems I enjoy instead of half a 40k army for that price.


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 Mymearan wrote:
The Celestant price is crazy but to be fair I'm pretty sure many, many times more people buy the Thunderbolt you're talking about. They even sell that stuff in toy shops.

That sounds like you're saying it justifies the price somehow?

@Skink - Yeah, for sure $55 is expensive for the Lord Celestant. I think it's MSRP $40 CAD here, which comes out to $30 USD, and pegs it to a street price of $22-$25 or so, plus tax.

I think that the $20-ish price is something I'm happy to pay for models like that. Not him -- he's one of the only Sigmarite models I didn't buy, because I don't like his cape. But Lord Castellant, for example, I'm cool with. But it's not like you "need" him. You can easily kitbash an acceptable substitute from much cheaper kits. Or just take him mounted on the Dracoth, which comes on the starter. It's not like the Dracoth costs you any points

@jonolikespie - Calth had a sticker price here for $180, and a street price of $135 - $150, plus tax, in CAD. On top of that, there are going to be some fierce Black Friday/Boxing day specials on that box set around these parts. So again, big difference to Aussies. Sorry, to hear, man :(

Regarding the Celestant price being much higher because it's something that few people buy... yeah, in my mind, this totally justifies a higher price.

Look at it another way: if I want a piece of art, and I'm the ONLY buyer -- the sole benefactor of that piece of art -- I'm not just paying for the artist's time, but his opportunity cost. In the time it took for him to make me my one sculpture, he could have made something that he could duplicate and sell to tens of thousands of people. So my one copy will cost tens of thousands of times more.

So, to me, if I know that a model will have 1/10 the sales based on a low production number versus a kit that will have a high demand and purchased in high numbers, I'm willing to pay a higher price, sure. The alternative is that the company is not incentivized to make complex, low sales volume character models -- and I happen to like a lot of those character models.

But it works like this in lots of games and game settings. GW is hardly unique in this. From a gaming perspective, 40k is pretty well off in this regard, as kitbashes are generally permitted, as long as it's some reasonable, believable facsimile or interpretation of the intended character.

Elasticity of demand dictates the price. If you want to make x from a sculpt, you need to be realistic about how many you are likely to sell (y), and at what price (z) to make x. It is difficult to get right, and there is a good argument for lower z equals higher y. That is definitely true for core purchases, but go too low on one off purchases and you risk making it impossible to hit x. I've always said that this is the weakness of plastic characters, higher production cost, higher prices, less options, unhappy collectors. At least when they were metal/finecast you had multiple character options (how many librarians and chaplain options did we have available at the same time 15 years ago? Half a dozen each at least?). Either that, or a sprue so full of bits that you can customize all of your own characters with an additional infantry box.

 Vermis wrote:
E.g. That KoW is gone from some stores doesn't surprise me, for a couple of reasons. It's main success seems to be as a (free) set of rules for ex-WFB players to use their old GW minis with. Mantic's own mini range doesn't seem to have a surfeit of quality control (Ronnie seems to have brought over GW's attitude of 'they'll buy any old crap we sell') and seems to be graduating to a store-unfriendly kickstarter-only format. It doesn't seem to be headed down an optimal route.

I was going to sneakily spoiler you a pic of the famed DRAKON RIDERS but they seem to be gone from Mantic's catalogue Seems someone is cleaning house...

 Talys wrote:
@Skink - When you look at those little single plastic 28mm models, in the GW world, there's 4 classes of them.

At the bottom of the food chain, you have guys like snapfit marines and Space Hulk genestealers, that are very simple 2-3 part models that are pretty cheap. They are not intricate, and made to be quickly assembled and not take up a lot of space on a sprue.

Total aside - the DV Chosen and Rangers fall into this category, and they're some of the most technically intricate, dynamic and IMHO beautiful models GW has produced.

Mymearan wrote:The Celestant price is crazy but to be fair I'm pretty sure many, many times more people buy the Thunderbolt you're talking about. They even sell that stuff in toy shops.

It's hard to know really. Some kits sell tons I'm sure (I reckon Revell probably shifts a lot of their 1/32 Spitfires), I'm not convinced this particular model sells that much though.

I don't believe most model makers release sales figures, Hornby is publicly owned so releases its data and they only have £58M revenue and Airfix is only ~20-25% of that, so Airfix only accounts for £13M in revenue.

So yeah, I don't think sales volume is enough to account for the massive price difference.

jonolikespie wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yes I'm aware of GW's pricing structure where characters cost more than rank and file models.

We've had lots of discussions on price and the subjectivity of price. But talking specifically about the Lord Celestant model that I mentioned, I admit it's an intelligently put together model.... but it's still only 6 pieces on a small single sprue (the entire sprue is maybe 3x5"). There's no way you can convince me that's anywhere near worth $55. There's "expensive" and then there's "batgak crazy" and that most definitely falls in to the latter category.

Players might only buy 1 of them so therefore they think they can charge more for it, but that argument only goes so far. Last week I bought a 1/72 P47 Thunderbolt for $13. It's detailed, complex, 4 sprues including clear canopy and gunsight, has decals to make one of 2 variants and lots of weapon options and I haven't counted but it's got to be at least 60 parts. The vast majority of modellers are only going to buy 1 of them and yet it was still only $13.

I think GW's pricing structure has gone from an annoyance to a serious issue of sticker shock that will affect any new blood coming in.

I thought that the new HH box was pretty cool but even at my FLGS it is still $235 aud.

That.. might be really good value for someone wanting to start a 40k army (I hear it is 1200 or so points), but for someone wanting to paint some models even the discounted price was something I kind of just gave a sad laugh and walked on. There is just so many better things I could spend that much money on if I am just going to paint them, but if I were looking to play I could get a full army for any one of a half a dozen game systems I enjoy instead of half a 40k army for that price.

I think GW have lost the plot in Australia. I stopped by the local FLGS yesterday and noticed they STILL have copies of Space Hulk on the shelf and IMO it's entirely because GW over priced it here (I thought they'd sold out but didn't realise there was still some tucked away). That's insane given how popular a product Space Hulk has been.

I wonder if HH is going to be the same, so expensive that it just sticker shocks people out of buying it. Funnily enough the first thing the local GW manager said when I walked in to the store the other day was trying to justify the price of it

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
[I think GW have lost the plot in Australia. I stopped by the local FLGS yesterday and noticed they STILL have copies of Space Hulk on the shelf and IMO it's entirely because GW over priced it here (I thought they'd sold out but didn't realise there was still some tucked away). That's insane given how popular a product Space Hulk has been.

I wonder if HH is going to be the same, so expensive that it just sticker shocks people out of buying it. Funnily enough the first thing the local GW manager said when I walked in to the store the other day was trying to justify the price of it

I actually bought the latest Space Hulk rerelease as I missed it the time before, but my local GW had quite a few in stock until one day they all just disappeared. My FLGS still has a few copies just sitting around, right beside their end times books, the assassin game, and a copy of Dreadfleet.

 notprop wrote:

If Epic is realised as a profitable range and fully supports (this is the Achilles heel with GW) they can produce more SKUs more quickly than anyone else. They already have a receptive and pretty loyal audience and access to a great many physical store locations.

Epic 40K was, imo, the best game GW have ever produced.

If that was brought back and fully supported by GW and FW my wallet would explode.

 Korinov wrote:

I was going to sneakily spoiler you a pic of the famed DRAKON RIDERS but they seem to be gone from Mantic's catalogue Seems someone is cleaning house...

Heh, yeah. They've been gone a while. I guess it eventually filtered through that 'they' won't roll over and pay for just anything. (Especially when they're only using their GW minis anyway ) But if that's the case, like GW they don't seem to have taken on board why it might be happening.
And as happened while goggling at Mantic's drakon display at Salute one year - and as with Dreadfleet, WFB 8th and AoS - there's always someone who'll wax lyrical about how awesome and perfect they are.

Reminds me of a recent South Park episode - one of the first I've watched in ages - Cartman doesn't like online criticism so he drops off social media and has only positive comments fed to him. I don't need to ask if that sounds familiar. GW can't avoid negativity in the form of falling sales, and might be trying to turn itself around; but if it hasn't stopped patting itself on the back for existing in an echo chamber, the new measures might end up a kind of scatter gun approach. Especially with potential new rules for the SGs.

(I think this is why I don't agree with existing SG fans who say they'll snap up the new boxes, use old rules [like NetEpic or NetE:A], and it'll all be good for SGs. It means GW's products will be bought regardless of price and regardless of rules quality - will that really be sending GW a different message, and end up well for SGs...?)

It won't end well for Butters, anyway.

 Vermis wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

I was going to sneakily spoiler you a pic of the famed DRAKON RIDERS but they seem to be gone from Mantic's catalogue Seems someone is cleaning house...

Heh, yeah. They've been gone a while. I guess it eventually filtered through that 'they' won't roll over and pay for just anything. (Especially when they're only using their GW minis anyway ) But if that's the case, like GW they don't seem to have taken on board why it might be happening.
And as happened while goggling at Mantic's drakon display at Salute one year - and as with Dreadfleet, WFB 8th and AoS - there's always someone who'll wax lyrical about how awesome and perfect they are.

Reminds me of a recent South Park episode - one of the first I've watched in ages - Cartman doesn't like online criticism so he drops off social media and has only positive comments fed to him. I don't need to ask if that sounds familiar. GW can't avoid negativity in the form of falling sales, and might be trying to turn itself around; but if it hasn't stopped patting itself on the back for existing in an echo chamber, the new measures might end up a kind of scatter gun approach. Especially with potential new rules for the SGs.

(I think this is why I don't agree with existing SG fans who say they'll snap up the new boxes, use old rules [like NetEpic or NetE:A], and it'll all be good for SGs. It means GW's products will be bought regardless of price and regardless of rules quality - will that really be sending GW a different message, and end up well for SGs...?)

It won't end well for Butters, anyway.

I will say this for the Drakon - they were fun to mod and paint.

I did a unit up as mounts from a carousel, complete with pole running through their backs.

A terrifying unit of dragons, to strike fear into the opposing player?... Nah.

But fun to work with.

The Auld Grump

Sigmorons! Ha!

 Torga_DW wrote:
But cheap-ish plastic boxes 'devalue' their business.

With cheap-ish I mean something like a price between their starter boxes (still relatively cheap, even for GW) and their other stuff that just seems a bit expensive, not going for Perry Miniatures prices. New games with rules (re-)written by Forgewold just have a better chance of creating value even at higher prices. The main idea is to create a few boxes for the foundation like starter boxes that everybody needs and stuff that at a smaller scale could count as a nice starter army (a team, a gang, or a chunk of an Epic army or Gothic fleet) and regular expansions that include stuff for a bigger subset instead of creating just one squad or one character that is useful for a tiny subset of people (like in 40k). The end result should be fewer boxes that are useful for more people to allow better economies of scale. With 40k they can just release a single character and have enough people needing/wanting that to make plastic viable. That should also make it possible for slightly cheaper boxes (relative to GW's output).

If they stay the course with the slow price increases on new boxes then the new Specialist Games will end up like the Hobbit miniatures (that seem to be part of Specialist Games now) and it probably won't be a success.

 Vermis wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

I was going to sneakily spoiler you a pic of the famed DRAKON RIDERS but they seem to be gone from Mantic's catalogue Seems someone is cleaning house...

Heh, yeah. They've been gone a while. I guess it eventually filtered through that 'they' won't roll over and pay for just anything. (Especially when they're only using their GW minis anyway ) But if that's the case, like GW they don't seem to have taken on board why it might be happening.
And as happened while goggling at Mantic's drakon display at Salute one year - and as with Dreadfleet, WFB 8th and AoS - there's always someone who'll wax lyrical about how awesome and perfect they are.

Reminds me of a recent South Park episode - one of the first I've watched in ages - Cartman doesn't like online criticism so he drops off social media and has only positive comments fed to him. I don't need to ask if that sounds familiar. GW can't avoid negativity in the form of falling sales, and might be trying to turn itself around; but if it hasn't stopped patting itself on the back for existing in an echo chamber, the new measures might end up a kind of scatter gun approach. Especially with potential new rules for the SGs.

(I think this is why I don't agree with existing SG fans who say they'll snap up the new boxes, use old rules [like NetEpic or NetE:A], and it'll all be good for SGs. It means GW's products will be bought regardless of price and regardless of rules quality - will that really be sending GW a different message, and end up well for SGs...?)

It won't end well for Butters, anyway.

Certainly some of Mantic's models are no good no matter what angle I try to look at them, but to be completely honest, the derpish paintjobs do them no favours either.

My issue with Mantic is that whenever they announce the release of a new model, the experience is akin to tossin a coin into the air and see what happens. It may be surprisingly good (for Mantic's standards, which overall aren't amazing) or just laughably bad. With time they seem to be slowly correcting this, with the "laughably bad" new models turning into simply "meh". IMO they'll sell models as long as they keep them affordable, that's why - as far as I'm concerned - even the most lacklustre of their basic kits have sold decently well: the base dwarves are not amazing, but they look decent enough when assembled into a rank-and-file regiment, which is ok for 1€/piece models.

The problem comes with the kits that do not look much better than the basic regiments, yet their prices are significantly more expensive. The hybrid metal-restic and metal-plastic kits take the cake, being almost as expensive as the better quality, full-metal or full-resin kits other manufacturers sell. I initially planned to buy their abyssal dwarfs Decimators and Inmortal Guard, one 20-man box each. But now they've repackaged the Decimators with a 50% price hike and it seems Mom miniatures is going to release their own chaos dwarves so I think I'll be taking my money elsewhere.

That Decimators repackaging move (20 models for 27.5€ -> 10 models for 20€) is actually the kind of thing I'd expect from GW, not Mantic.

 Korinov wrote:
That Decimators repackaging move (20 models for 27.5€ -> 10 models for 20€) is actually the kind of thing I'd expect from GW, not Mantic.

Frankly, I think it's just the new normal. I don't think the universe of miniature gamers is really exploding, certainly not at the rate that companies are entering the market. That means one of the easiest ways to increase profits of anyone who has a product that has a fanbase is to reduce the number of models in a box with a smaller reduction in the price -- on the theory that people will just buy another box. With GW starting the general trend of more expensive models per unit in scifi/fantasy gaming, it's much easier for other companies to follow suit and not be lambasted for it.

Would I like a return to the days of $10 for 5 metal models in a blister? Hell yeah, but I won't hold my breath for it.

 Talys wrote:

 Korinov wrote:
That Decimators repackaging move (20 models for 27.5€ -> 10 models for 20€) is actually the kind of thing I'd expect from GW, not Mantic.

Frankly, I think it's just the new normal. I don't think the universe of miniature gamers is really exploding, certainly not at the rate that companies are entering the market. That means one of the easiest ways to increase profits of anyone who has a product that has a fanbase is to reduce the number of models in a box with a smaller reduction in the price -- on the theory that people will just buy another box. With GW starting the general trend of more expensive models per unit in scifi/fantasy gaming, it's much easier for other companies to follow suit and not be lambasted for it.

Would I like a return to the days of $10 for 5 metal models in a blister? Hell yeah, but I won't hold my breath for it.

Seems like a pretty terrible idea for companies without legacy games, NYT bestselling tie in novels, video games, and high street retail chains to add value to their brands. I certainly don't buy Mantic through retail any more. I wonder how high a price a box of Basileans can stand before people stop buying.

Well, three new stores opened during the last three weeks: Brisbane, Reno, and an English village.
Not a bad rate if you ask me.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, three new stores opened during the last three weeks: Brisbane, Reno, and an English village.
Not a bad rate if you ask me.

The question is not if a store can be opened, but rather whether the store can be sustained.

Having seen GW wax then recede in the past... we need to watch and wait to see if it is a good thing or just a fart in the bubble bath.

The Auld Grump

 JamesY wrote:
Elasticity of demand dictates the price. If you want to make x from a sculpt, you need to be realistic about how many you are likely to sell (y), and at what price (z) to make x. It is difficult to get right, and there is a good argument for lower z equals higher y. That is definitely true for core purchases, but go too low on one off purchases and you risk making it impossible to hit x. I've always said that this is the weakness of plastic characters, higher production cost, higher prices, less options, unhappy collectors. At least when they were metal/finecast you had multiple character options (how many librarians and chaplain options did we have available at the same time 15 years ago? Half a dozen each at least?). Either that, or a sprue so full of bits that you can customize all of your own characters with an additional infantry box.

Where that doesn't hold true under scrutiny is the assumption that there's a time-limit by which the development cost must be recouped. The life of a mold for plastic models is much, much longer (years) than a resin mold so there is a greater opportunity to recoup expenses.

If you're assuming that there are only a limited number of customers available to purchase the product, you have to also ask what the company is doing to expand the pool of potential customers. You can't just create something and magically expect people to buy it; it's retail sales, not a tax, the company will either aggressively promote expansion of sales or it will see lackluster results....hmmm, sound familiar?

The thing that I can't fathom is the apparent assumption by GW that opening stores is the answer. This may be true in the UK, to a limited extent, where GW is heavily invested and entrenched but in large territories like the US, Canada, and Australia, they have too much ground to cover for this to be a profitable enterprise. They need a change of philosophy in the sales department, one that cultivates new retail avenues instead of the old tried and failed model of company run brick and mortar stores.

If they want to make money, they need to get into board games again, games that get away from the tiny pool of model collectors and into the wide world of weekend table top. I know that people like to poo-poo on the idea of GW creating pre-painted, pre-assembled models but look at the absolute explosion of x-wing. Sure, some of that is due to the franchise but I'd posit that a greater portion of its success is due to the way that the rules and models are set-up. There's a greater market for gaming pieces than collectable, boutique models for discerning uber-artistic type painter/modellers. Get on board or get left behind.

Another flaw in that thinking is trying to pigeon hole every product you make into some sort of set performance curve, rather than taking a holistic approach.

If you're making a range of anything, what elements of that range make the most or even lose money is, by and large, totally irrelevant, as long as the range as a whole is performing as it should.

Which is not to say it isn't desirable to have every sku in your catalogue turning a profit, of course it is, but when you're selling a product of the nature that GW are, there are likely many complex and intangible relationships between your products, and making one element priced at a lower point than where it strictly needs to be to hit some arbitrary target may have knock on effects on the sales of other things.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, three new stores opened during the last three weeks: Brisbane, Reno, and an English village.
Not a bad rate if you ask me.

The question is not if a store can be opened, but rather whether the store can be sustained.

Having seen GW wax then recede in the past... we need to watch and wait to see if it is a good thing or just a fart in the bubble bath.

The Auld Grump

Well, I don't know of any storage closure here in Germany. They are located in larger cities only and as we know the stores are rather small bar Berlin I.

The idea of GW pre-painted models is intriguing.

When it has been suggested in the past, people have shrieked with horror at not being allowed to paint their figures, yet another bone of contention is the number of players who since 'Ard Boys don't bother to paint their figures.

In my view, GW should offer kits like Space Marines and Tau Fire Warriors moulded in a variety of colour parts, allowing youngsters to assemble unique chapter or sept forces without the need to paint them.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The idea of GW pre-painted models is intriguing.

When it has been suggested in the past, people have shrieked with horror at not being allowed to paint their figures, yet another bone of contention is the number of players who since 'Ard Boys don't bother to paint their figures.

In my view, GW should offer kits like Space Marines and Tau Fire Warriors moulded in a variety of colour parts, allowing youngsters to assemble unique chapter or sept forces without the need to paint them.

Someone will be along presently to point out the multiple times that companies have failed with this type of enterprise in the past but will leave out the fact that the companies that have attempted to do this were much smaller than GW or FFG...

I believe there is a market for both pre-painted and DIY models; if nothing else it doesn't add a great deal of cost yet creates an opportunity to expand the customer base.

Being a boutique model company is all and well and good if you don't have the word "games" in your company name.

X-Wing is doing very well with pre-painted models.

Gundam is doing very well with multi-coloured models.

Revell did some nice Star Wars kits which had a mixture of pre-painted and multi-coloured parts. These had to be assembled though they were simple models.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The idea of GW pre-painted models is intriguing.

When it has been suggested in the past, people have shrieked with horror at not being allowed to paint their figures, yet another bone of contention is the number of players who since 'Ard Boys don't bother to paint their figures.

In my view, GW should offer kits like Space Marines and Tau Fire Warriors moulded in a variety of colour parts, allowing youngsters to assemble unique chapter or sept forces without the need to paint them.

The problem with pre-paints is that they're intended to be quicker, easier, and ultimately, cheaper. GW would charge you more than a standard kit for the privilege of buying a kit that you didn't have to paint yourself.

@Killkrazy: the pre-painted/pre-assembled aspect of the X-Wing models is what has kept me from buying one of every ship in the range, even though Star Wars is awesome...
i am slowly coming around to the idea of repainting them, since i have seen so many beautifully done paint jobs...
i'm not sure if their is a great market for the repaints, but i got the new starter to do a Poe scheme, and see if it sells...

 Azreal13 wrote:
Another flaw in that thinking is trying to pigeon hole every product you make into some sort of set performance curve, rather than taking a holistic approach.

If you're making a range of anything, what elements of that range make the most or even lose money is, by and large, totally irrelevant, as long as the range as a whole is performing as it should.

Which is not to say it isn't desirable to have every sku in your catalogue turning a profit, of course it is, but when you're selling a product of the nature that GW are, there are likely many complex and intangible relationships between your products, and making one element priced at a lower point than where it strictly needs to be to hit some arbitrary target may have knock on effects on the sales of other things.

i completely agree with this theory...
it worked great in my surf shop, where the longboard rentals made most of the money, but the short boards had the "cool factor" that attracted the eye of new customers...
i even had a few vintage 70's short boards that were too rare to rent, but they were the ones that had people talking, and continuously coming back just to handle and photograph them...
there were about 8 boards that made the majority of the money, 8 that made a little money (but looked cool on display), and 4 boards that weren't for rent (but made the shop internationally known), and everything balanced out in the end...
in four years, we doubled our space, and then sold the shop this year (year five) for double the investment...

JamesY's quote of Blanche saying, "Yeah, Necromunda was great. Too bad it didn't make money." seems very indicative of Kirby's attitude toward the business...
it is pretty obvious that Necromunda shifted a lot of minis over the ten years it was going strong, judging from how many people have recounted their fond memories of playing the game, and how many people have said that they own multiple gangs...
the nostalgia factor has been off the chart over the announcement of a possible return of Epic and Necromunda...

the move to only caring about optimizing sales, at the cost of cutting cool models from the catalogue, is the thing that bums me out the most...
it takes away the "we are hobbyists, with a great love of the hobby" that GW had through the 80's, 90's, and into the 2000's...
dial the clock back ten years, and there was still a feeling of "we are all in this together", in my experience...
in the last five years, Kirby made so many people feel like walking wallets, any goodwill the work of the studio engendered in the customers has almost completely evaporated...
hopefully the new CEO can bring back the vibe that the love of the hobby is more important than the love of dividend money...

cheers
jah

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 Bottle wrote:
Nice post Jah, I agree with lots of your comments and it also fills me with a sense of hope that GW are perhaps returning to their glory days. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKWrN58NbD8