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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34907983

Turkish warplanes have reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.

Russia's Interfax news agency cited the Russian defence ministry as saying that a Su-24 had crashed in northern Syria, and that its two pilots had ejected.

Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s had shot down the plane after repeatedly warning its pilots that they were violating Turkish airspace.

Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.

Are we in trouble here?

Third World War is on its way.

Russia says it can prove it was in Syrian airspace for its whole flight.


The plane actually crashed in Syria so that lends credence to what Russia says.

"The plane went down in area known by Turks as "Turkmen Mountain" in northern Syria near the Turkish border"

According to The Guardian :



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/turkey-shoots-down-jet-near-border-with-syria

So Turkey shouldn't have shot it down.

Hmm, not good.

Actually the fate of Turkey doesn't move me that much. The way they handle ISIS is highly suspicious.

They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

 obsidianaura wrote:
They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

And this is why Russia is not going to attack them.

 Peregrine wrote:

 obsidianaura wrote:
They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

And this is why Russia is not going to attack them.

You're probably right.

There will be lots of posturing and theatrics for a while.

At least the pilots managed to eject.

It's probably worth waiting for the flight control recordings and so on to be released, before deciding who is to blame.

Russia wouldn't go to war with NATO because of one fighter-bomber anyway.

Still, as the BBC say, it makes the air traffic control situation in the areaof Syria even more tricky.

 obsidianaura wrote:
They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

Not necessarily. From my understanding the NATO pacts are largely in self defence. Turkey is the aggressor if the jet was in Syrian air space.

Also, if France can't get NATO assistance, I doubt NATO will lift a finger to save Turkey who have been allowing ISIS free reign to borderhop while ISIS + Turkey pick off the Kurds.

Dropbear Victim wrote:

 obsidianaura wrote:
They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

Not necessarily. From my understanding the NATO pacts are largely in self defence. Turkey is the aggressor if the jet was in Syrian air space.

Also, if France can't get NATO assistance, I doubt NATO will lift a finger to save Turkey who have been allowing ISIS free reign to borderhop while ISIS + Turkey pick off the Kurds.

True, the treaty triggers should a nation attack Turkey. It's not triggered by shooting a plane down.

NATO doesn't have a nation to go to war against in France's case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's probably worth waiting for the flight control recordings and so on to be released, before deciding who is to blame.

Russia wouldn't go to war with NATO because of one fighter-bomber anyway.

Still, as the BBC say, it makes the air traffic control situation in the areaof Syria even more tricky.

Kilkrazy is right.

It's what everyone said would happen having all these nations flying over the area, and now it has.

ISIS fighters are probably laughing their asses off.

Very very bad news..

 jhe90 wrote:
Very very bad news..

Yep, it'll be hard to get Turkey to cooperate with us (and Russia) after this.

 LethalShade wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Very very bad news..

Yep, it'll be hard to get Turkey to cooperate with us (and Russia) after this.

Turkey is a road block, they are half the trouble. Letting Kurds die as a buffer with a full armoured force sat watching and artillery dug in.

Just let Russia lose on Isis, bring the sledge hammer. On there heads of they piss off Russia by shooting down there jets, no help.

Turkey is suspected to actively help ISIS via supplies and by letting them go through the border.

 LethalShade wrote:
Turkey is suspected to actively help ISIS via supplies and by letting them go through the border.

So so very much. The Turks practically walked up and had a chat with Isis during the attack on kobane. So much dodget stuff going on. There in bed with them.

So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Would you piss off Putin?

His reactions to threat is basicly to go hammer it into oblivion

Video has been released by the "moderates", with one of the pilots on it either dead or heavily wounded. Mocking him, of course, all too proud of themselves.

Plane was shot down 40kms from the Russian base of operations.

I can just imagine all the "historically Russian" people in Turkey staging a popular revolt targeting all the industry and resource rich areas of Turkey

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I can just imagine all the "historically Russian" people in Turkey staging a popular revolt targeting all the industry and resource rich areas of Turkey

All for.

Russia doesn't seem to angry atm, on RT there still entertaining the idea that it got shot down by rebels, but as always what's put to the Russian people is generally wrong compared to what's really happing. But Putin as of yet doesn't seem to fussed.

As for where it is, if the Sukhoi was on route to violate Turkish air space they may of acted in defence.

Dropbear Victim wrote:

 obsidianaura wrote:
They are a part of NATO though.

If Russia attacks them then we're committed by our treaties.

Not necessarily. From my understanding the NATO pacts are largely in self defence. Turkey is the aggressor if the jet was in Syrian air space.

Also, if France can't get NATO assistance, I doubt NATO will lift a finger to save Turkey who have been allowing ISIS free reign to borderhop while ISIS + Turkey pick off the Kurds.

Russia has invaded Turkish air space before and NATO was quick to release the statement one incursion is a incursion against all of NATO.

Turkey what the hell are are you doing

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Thats a very bad idea. While I agree 100% that Turkey is a bad actor here:

1. If Russia actively attacks Turkey, that starts things rolling, things that end in fusion bombs over Moscow, DC, Paris, London, etc.
2. That won't happen. During the Cold War planes and helicopters would occasionally be shot down. It was always covered up, to avoid #1 above. Neither party here, unlike other rising nuclear powers, is nuts.
3. I doubt Putin would admit that Soviet er...Russian yea Russian aircraft could be shot down. That would lose face.

I find it interestingly old F16s could take down Russian aircraft.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Would you piss off Putin?

His reactions to threat is basicly to go hammer it into oblivion

Thats what they try to put forth anyway. So far Ukrainians and Muslim rebels seem to be causing them fits.

 Frazzled wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Thats a very bad idea. While I agree 100% that Turkey is a bad actor here:

1. If Russia actively attacks Turkey, that starts things rolling, things that end in fusion bombs over Moscow, DC, Paris, London, etc.
2. That won't happen. During the Cold War planes and helicopters would occasionally be shot down. It was always covered up, to avoid #1 above. Neither party here, unlike other rising nuclear powers.
3. I doubt Putin would admit that Soviet er...Russian yea Russian aircraft could be shot down. That would lose face.

I find it interestingly old F16s could take down Russian aircraft.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Would you piss off Putin?

His reactions to threat is basicly to go hammer it into oblivion

Thats what hey try to put forth anyway. So far Ukrainians and Muslim rebels seem to be causing them fits.

I was thinking that too.

I'm guessing these days it's not so much the capability of the F-16 or the pilot, more down to the quality of the missile fired?

 Frazzled wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Thats a very bad idea. While I agree 100% that Turkey is a bad actor here:

1. If Russia actively attacks Turkey, that starts things rolling, things that end in fusion bombs over Moscow, DC, Paris, London, etc.
2. That won't happen. During the Cold War planes and helicopters would occasionally be shot down. It was always covered up, to avoid #1 above. Neither party here, unlike other rising nuclear powers.
3. I doubt Putin would admit that Soviet er...Russian yea Russian aircraft could be shot down. That would lose face.

I find it interestingly old F16s could take down Russian aircraft.

It was a Su-24, not a high-end modern plane.

3) -> Russian aircrafts are powered by Vodka and shielded by pure patriotism and faith in the defunct USSR. They cannot be brought down, all of this is an Illuminati conspiracy.

 LethalShade wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
So yeah, Russia can go berserk on them and I hope NATO will look the other way.


(Of course, this will probably not happen)

Thats a very bad idea. While I agree 100% that Turkey is a bad actor here:

1. If Russia actively attacks Turkey, that starts things rolling, things that end in fusion bombs over Moscow, DC, Paris, London, etc.
2. That won't happen. During the Cold War planes and helicopters would occasionally be shot down. It was always covered up, to avoid #1 above. Neither party here, unlike other rising nuclear powers.
3. I doubt Putin would admit that Soviet er...Russian yea Russian aircraft could be shot down. That would lose face.

I find it interestingly old F16s could take down Russian aircraft.

It was a Su-24, not a high-end modern plane.

3) -> Russian aircrafts are powered by Vodka and shielded by pure patriotism and faith in the defunct USSR. They cannot be brought down, all of this is an Illuminati conspiracy.

Good point the F16 is actually newer than the SU-24

3) -> Russian aircrafts are powered by Vodka and shielded by pure patriotism and faith in the defunct USSR. They cannot be brought down, all of this is an Illuminati conspiracy.

Hey it worked against the Fascist Hitlerites. Fortunately the running dog capilitalist Americans were powered by burgers and FRREEEEEDOM!

SU-24 eh. Ok. I'm surprised they aren't using something more modern.