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 Yodhrin wrote:

I never get this discussion tbh, it's literally the only type of hobby project I've seen where there's always someone trying to disprove the need for the conversion and dissuade folk from doing it - is it because acknowledging that the Marines are flawed would challenged the perceived value of the models, and so you need to prove they're not flawed so you don't experience buyer's remorse or something? There must be something, because you don't see folk responding to posts talking about scratchbuilding or converting GW tanks to fix their scaling issues with "the tanks are fine, you don't need to fix them, just buy smaller infantry if you want them to look bigger"

The whole thing is a result of evolution. Back in the RT era, marines weren't especially taller than regular humans, just bulkier in their armour. Aside from the slow scale creep in both lines (and especialy on things like the plastic catachans) the figures scale hasn't really been changed, as each new line of marines has shared availability with the previous range, and as such retained size compatibility with the "existing" range of the time. It's with the growth of the fiction/black library and iterations of authors over time turning them into bigger and bigger sized supermen that has caused the large discrepancy between the fluff and the actual models - which some people seem to call "flaws" in the models.

This famous picture didn't help. Especially since it seems that Jervis forgot how to count when he did the original sketch. (look closely).



That extra foot of height has led to all sorts of "canonical" mess ever since.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I never get this discussion tbh, it's literally the only type of hobby project I've seen where there's always someone trying to disprove the need for the conversion and dissuade folk from doing it - is it because acknowledging that the Marines are flawed would challenged the perceived value of the models, and so you need to prove they're not flawed so you don't experience buyer's remorse or something? There must be something, because you don't see folk responding to posts talking about scratchbuilding or converting GW tanks to fix their scaling issues with "the tanks are fine, you don't need to fix them, just buy smaller infantry if you want them to look bigger"

The whole thing is a result of evolution. Back in the RT era, marines weren't especially taller than regular humans, just bulkier in their armour. Aside from the slow scale creep in both lines (and especialy on things like the plastic catachans) the figures scale hasn't really been changed, as each new line of marines has shared availability with the previous range, and as such retained size compatibility with the "existing" range of the time. It's with the growth of the fiction/black library and iterations of authors over time turning them into bigger and bigger sized supermen that has caused the large discrepancy between the fluff and the actual models - which some people seem to call "flaws" in the models.

This famous picture didn't help. Especially since it seems that Jervis forgot how to count when he did the original sketch. (look closely).

Spoiler:

That extra foot of height has led to all sorts of "canonical" mess ever since.

Regardless of how it happened, it has happened, and my points stand: the relative height is wrong(yes, even by the "7' tall and not an inch more" school of thought, even though it would be more like "somewhere between 7' and 7.5'" once you account for the pose), even if you buy smaller regular human infantry the Marine models still have proportion issues relative to themselves, therefore if it's a problem you feel the desire to solve the best way to do it is to modify the Marines because that solves all the issues in one go.

But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people? If you don't see the need to modify the Marines, don't do it, but every time the subject comes up even in passing someone always seems to feel the need to step in and insist people are wrong to do it.

Weirdly enough, that PDF seems to make this a way better 40K starter set than any of the "Start Collecting" boxes, since you appear to not need a codex.

 Yodhrin wrote:
But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people?

You ever heard the saying "How can you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry; they'll tell you!". The same applies to people who make True-Scale Marines. They're so eager to show that their Marines are the "right way" to make Marines, that their models are the way Marines a "meant" to be, almost as if there's something wrong with not only regular untouched Marine models, but also the people who like them that way.

So yeah, it comes across as obnoxious.

"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"

No, you're not. You're making them bigger than they should be. That's ok, that's fine, but disingenuous terms like "True-Scale" just come across as someone trying to belittle those that like their Marines the way they come on the tin.

Lol.

FYI ausbros: emerald hobbies has this for $224, which is pretty damn cheap.

I'm not 100% sure I'm buying this yet, so tempted though

Ha! $219.80!

 Azazelx wrote:
[

This famous picture didn't help. Especially since it seems that Jervis forgot how to count when he did the original sketch. (look closely).

That is Jes Goodwin's sketch and Jes in the photo.

Tim

If marine size worries you just add 10mm to your marine model using conventional "tru-skalin" techniques and wait for the cannon to catch up, at this rate marines will be 10' tall by 2020.

Worrying about scale in GW miniature lines is like worrying about rules technicalities in WWF matches.

Had to share this. Some very impressive work from @darrenlatham painting his own miniatures

They're great. Close to the scheme I want to do. Like old sci-fi (silent running et al).

Chikout wrote:
Had to share this. Some very impressive work from @darrenlatham painting his own miniatures

That scheme is awesome.

Well my set turned up this morning from Firestorm Games. The sprues are awesome on an initial look!

Needs more flight deck and Rebellion fighter craft.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...

A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.

Mine arrived, good old Element Games

 Azazelx wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...

A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.

From what I've been told, it's intended for models that overhang significantly on 25s but are too small for 40s.

Warhams-77 wrote:
I havent downloaded and checked the content yet but just saw there is a PDF under rules in GW's NZ webshop

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Deathwatch-Overkill-EN

Thats awesome thanks

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"

To add to that, another good reason to not call them true-scale is because more likely than not your modified marines are not true-scale, because that would be harder than Kirby's member each time someone buys a Lord-Celestant and just about nobody will put in that much effort (including me). Upscale is a better word, because that is what it is.

On topic, the set is only 1200 kr? That's about as much as BaC. I expected it to be more expensive.

 Azazelx wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...

A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.

Stormcast are on 40s though.

Plus the 32 mm first came in Deathstorm in November 2014, a good eight months before AOS was released. Admittedly a lot ofthe Stormcast/rules etc etc were done by then though.

But Overkill? Am loving this release.

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
If marine size worries you just add 10mm to your marine model using conventional "tru-skalin" techniques and wait for the cannon to catch up, at this rate marines will be 10' tall by 2020.

Ha! They already are 3 meters tall in armor, according to ADB!

I do like that the Marines are significantly taller/more massive than the humans and hybrids here!

Is there a Genestealer painting guide with the new WD?

 notprop wrote:
Is there a Genestealer painting guide with the new WD?

It shows how to paint cultists and the patriarch. Those are the two guides included in WD 110.

Chikout wrote:Had to share this. Some very impressive work from @darrenlatham painting his own miniatures

First thing come to my mind was Luke Skywalker and X-wing pilots. Very well done.

*edit* Curious, how come when I quoted the pic didn't show up in the quote.

Davor wrote:

Chikout wrote:Had to share this. Some very impressive work from @darrenlatham painting his own miniatures

First thing come to my mind was Luke Skywalker and X-wing pilots. Very well done.

*edit* Curious, how come when I quoted the pic didn't show up in the quote.

The picture doesn't show up when it's an attachment rather than linked via the IMG tags.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people?

You ever heard the saying "How can you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry; they'll tell you!". The same applies to people who make True-Scale Marines. They're so eager to show that their Marines are the "right way" to make Marines, that their models are the way Marines a "meant" to be, almost as if there's something wrong with not only regular untouched Marine models, but also the people who like them that way.

So yeah, it comes across as obnoxious.

"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"

No, you're not. You're making them bigger than they should be. That's ok, that's fine, but disingenuous terms like "True-Scale" just come across as someone trying to belittle those that like their Marines the way they come on the tin.

It matters to me because I love the 40k universe and fluff, and my OCD can't deal with marines being the same height as a guardsmen or a tau. (Also means I can't have different scale minis into my collection now days)

I need my marines to be a head/ head And shoulder taller than my normal human minis. Which to me is enough to settle the demon on my back.


I've used that term (almost always with the true in quote marks mind you), at no point am I trying to be obnoxious or look down on anyone else not doing what I'm doing. Would I love GW to release bigger marines compared to guard etc yes it would save me a lot of effort and sanity

I'm just using the term as a short hand for what I'm doing making the little burgers a bit bigger.

I'm sorry if that's happened before to you H.B.M.C , but please don't generalise people like me with some dick on the Internet with a superiority complex. (I'm just a dick on the Internet with OCD )

Ashiraya wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"

To add to that, another good reason to not call them true-scale is because more likely than not your modified marines are not true-scale, because that would be harder than Kirby's member each time someone buys a Lord-Celestant and just about nobody will put in that much effort (including me). Upscale is a better word, because that is what it is.

On topic, the set is only 1200 kr? That's about as much as BaC. I expected it to be more expensive.

true scale, Tru Scale, tall scale, art scale, it's all just a word for making/changing the proportions as said above I use "true" (and occasionally "tru" if I'm feeling street ), it's a shorthand for me to say just that.

I know straight away when someone says any of the above terms what they mean that their making their minis a bit bigger. To me upscale actually implies your taking the mini and moving it to a different miniature scale bracket e.g going from 28mm to 35mm etc

So I'll continue to use the term, as I don't see any harm in it , appologies for any future offence cause by my use of that term. Please just let it go




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic I'm looking forward to the how to paint vid on these

For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.

The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.

The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.

Finally had time to get a couple of games in last night using the new Broodkin formation, paired with 400 points of IG (a command squad and veteran squad in 2 Chimeras, 3 ratling snipers and an Autocannon Armoured Sentinel). Played against Tyranids and Slaanesh Daemons. Lost both games, but had a lot of fun.

What I took away from this first experience:

- The Broodkin Formation is potentially VERY good, especially with the Fearless/Adamantium Will rule helping keep your forces in the fight and helping to ward off some nasty Psychic powers. The first-turn Charge from the Patriarch and the Princelings is quite fun as well.

- Acolytes are just as deadly and point-efficient as they appear on paper. They also die pretty easily too. (I really hope we can bump the unit size up if/when the Codex drops.)

- Aberrants are quite interesting, and easy to underestimate. Thanks to the fact that they can choose to use their Rending Claws at I2 rather than their large, unwieldy mining tools, I was able to swat down 9 Hormagaunts who Charged through Difficult Terrain, catching the last one in a Sweeping Advance (thanks to a very lucky roll) without losing even a single Wound in return. They also survived a full round of Assault with a Keeper of Secrets and 10 Daemonettes, putting half of the Daemonettes down in the process as well. T5, W2 and Feel No Pain isn't bad.

- It is very important to remember that the Patriarch's Claws give him Shred. I may have forgotten this to my detriment a few times...

- Come the Apocalypse can be a pain in the butt, but at least the Infiltrate rule spread through the entire Formation helps uncrowd the Deployment Zone quite a bit.

- Don't try to pull off a "Refused Flank" with Come the Apocalypse allies on the board - you won't fit everyone on one side of the table, even with all that Infiltrate. LOL

- I can't roll Invisibility. Not once in two games with 4 rolls on the chart each game. Waaaaaahhhhhh!!!!

 xttz wrote:
For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.

The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.

The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.

Thank you for the heads up!

 xttz wrote:
For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.

The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.

The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.

Damn. Just did mine. At least I can check and correct now.