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From CNN: "Farook, an American citizen, was an environmental health specialist with the San Bernardino County health department, which was hosting the holiday party at Inland Regional."

Methodical planning or no, the fact that he was an employee makes me lean toward disgruntled employee vs. political terrorist. Of course, it could be a combination of both. Guess its best to just wait for the facts to come in.

Lean how you want. Once the Feds go through his hard drives we'll know more.


Interesting fact: Mass shootings with more than one shooter are VERY rare in the US.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shootings-multiple-suspects-rare/index.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shooters had go-pro cameras on their gear.

That is an indicator of more than 'disgruntled worker'.

 CptJake wrote:
Shooters had go-pro cameras on their gear.

That is an indicator of more than 'disgruntled worker'.

Seriously? What were they planning on doing with the footage after?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Shooters had go-pro cameras on their gear.

That is an indicator of more than 'disgruntled worker'.

Seriously? What were they planning on doing with the footage after?

Just guessing, but typically it gets posted and used as recruiting/inspirational material.

 CptJake wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Shooters had go-pro cameras on their gear.

That is an indicator of more than 'disgruntled worker'.

Seriously? What were they planning on doing with the footage after?

Just guessing, but typically it gets posted and used as recruiting/inspirational material.

That would be atypical for workplace violence

There is nothing about this typical of 'work place violence'.

Why I have a way different feel for this incident compare to others. This was not work place violence. This was well planned, well geared, and well executed. Wonder who radicalized who

I agree that we don't want to jump there quite yet but all signs are pointing to radicalization. I didn't see it above but an article on Yahoo said that Syed Rizfan Fook went to Saudi Arabia, came back with a wife (who killed with him), grew out a beard, and then shot everyone up a few months later. If it were just a disgruntled worker I can't imagine bringing in a wife or third party.

 Jihadin wrote:
Why I have a way different feel for this incident compare to others. This was not work place violence. This was well planned, well geared, and well executed. Wonder who radicalized who

Just because the attack was well planned, geared, and executed does not exclude the possibility of workplace violence, whether religious radicalization was a factor or not. The guy had worked with the people at the party for 5 years...that's a pretty significant piece of information.

I actually don't think it was all that well executed. Not to be grisly, but three shooters with rifles and fourteen deaths suggests either Olympic-class armed shooter response times by the poor people at the event, or really terribly-executed terrorism by the terrorists. Which, good, 'cause feth 'em.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Why I have a way different feel for this incident compare to others. This was not work place violence. This was well planned, well geared, and well executed. Wonder who radicalized who

Just because the attack was well planned, geared, and executed does not exclude the possibility of workplace violence, whether religious radicalization was a factor or not. The guy had worked with the people at the party for 5 years...that's a pretty significant piece of information.

Other pieces of significant info:

Trip to Saudi.
Had recently become 'more religious'
Grew out beard
Had go pro cameras
Had prepped IEDs (cops called the house an IED facility as a matter of fact)
Had lots of extra ammo


I suspect 'work place violence' is not gonna end up being the reason. I do think he chose the target based on what he was familiar with.

Sounds like they had the gear but no training. It's not like you can just jog on down to the range with your AK and squeeze off a few mags. From what I've read firing an automatic weapon is loads harder to control than just firing a rifle or handgun.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Sounds like they had the gear but no training. It's not like you can just jog on down to the range with your AK and squeeze off a few mags. From what I've read firing an automatic weapon is loads harder to control than just firing a rifle or handgun.

I had not heard they had automatic weapons. I heard they were all semi-auto. You have a credible source for full auto?

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Why I have a way different feel for this incident compare to others. This was not work place violence. This was well planned, well geared, and well executed. Wonder who radicalized who

Just because the attack was well planned, geared, and executed does not exclude the possibility of workplace violence, whether religious radicalization was a factor or not. The guy had worked with the people at the party for 5 years...that's a pretty significant piece of information.

Other pieces of significant info:

Trip to Saudi.
Had recently become 'more religious'
Grew out beard
Had go pro cameras
Had prepped IEDs (cops called the house an IED facility as a matter of fact)
Had lots of extra ammo


I suspect 'work place violence' is not gonna end up being the reason. I do think he chose the target based on what he was familiar with.

Is that how we find ISIS terrorists now?

None of those factors rule out workplace violence either. Nor do they rule out political terrorism. These two motives aren't mutually exclusive, is what I'm trying to say.

Laugh if you want, it is an indicator of radicalization. On it is own it is a meaningless tidbit. Compiled with other info...

I'm still not sure it's Islamic, no phrases, no flags, weird target, ect. It just doesn't feel right. Then again, what do I know?

 jasper76 wrote:
None of those factors rule out workplace violence either. Nor do they rule out political terrorism. These two motives aren't mutually exclusive, is what I'm trying to say.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

Police have already said it did not look like his job was in danger, and don;t think 'workplace violence' is the issue.

Why do you disagree with them?

Though I would be hesitant to mark a "trip to Saudi" as a sign of radicalization in Muslims, since it's a requirement for all Muslims who can afford it and are well enough to travel, the other stuff is pretty typical of a self radicalized salafist.

It would not surprise me if Islamic extremism played some role.

And I reckon it's fine to say that when some evidence like this comes up, just like I reckon it's fine to say that guy that shot up the planned parenthood clinic was probably an extremist Christian terrorist.

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
None of those factors rule out workplace violence either. Nor do they rule out political terrorism. These two motives aren't mutually exclusive, is what I'm trying to say.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

Police have already said it did not look like his job was in danger, and don;t think 'workplace violence' is the issue.

Why do you disagree with them?

Source? One's job being in danger is not the only possible motive for workplace violence. The imagination can contoct many other possible motives for workplace violence.

And as I've been tryeing to say, workplace violence and religious fanaticism are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

They have/had a six month old child who they left with grand parents that day

This was not a spur of a moment decision.

 jasper76 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
None of those factors rule out workplace violence either. Nor do they rule out political terrorism. These two motives aren't mutually exclusive, is what I'm trying to say.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

Police have already said it did not look like his job was in danger, and don;t think 'workplace violence' is the issue.

Why do you disagree with them?

Source? One's job being in danger is not the only possible motive for workplace violence. The imagination can contoct many other possible motives for workplace violence.

And as I've been tryeing to say, workplace violence and religious fanaticism are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

And I'll also add in. show one this violent (or even close) that did not end in a perp suicide on site.

This just does not have 'workplace violence' indicators. It DOES have 'terror attack' indicators. When the form that starts to appear is pretty fething duck like, you can start to assume duck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
They have/had a six month old child who they left with grand parents that day

This was not a spur of a moment decision.

They also told grandma they were going to a Dr appointment when they dropped off the kid.

 CptJake wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Sounds like they had the gear but no training. It's not like you can just jog on down to the range with your AK and squeeze off a few mags. From what I've read firing an automatic weapon is loads harder to control than just firing a rifle or handgun.

I had not heard they had automatic weapons. I heard they were all semi-auto. You have a credible source for full auto?

Reports so far have been AR 15 style.
Where did they get them? Cali is extremely tough on "assault weapons" they still have limitations on them.

Agreed, and also agreed in the case of the probable Christian terrorist who carried out the shooting in the planned parenthood clinic.

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
None of those factors rule out workplace violence either. Nor do they rule out political terrorism. These two motives aren't mutually exclusive, is what I'm trying to say.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

Police have already said it did not look like his job was in danger, and don;t think 'workplace violence' is the issue.

Why do you disagree with them?

Source? One's job being in danger is not the only possible motive for workplace violence. The imagination can contoct many other possible motives for workplace violence.

And as I've been tryeing to say, workplace violence and religious fanaticism are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Can you show a single case of workplace violence in the US where those other factors (or similar) were present?

And I'll also add in. show one this violent (or even close) that did not end in a perp suicide on site.

This just does not have 'workplace violence' indicators. It DOES have 'terror attack' indicators. When the form that starts to appear is pretty fething duck like, you can start to assume duck.

I'll just repeat myself and drop the issue. Workplace violence and domestic terrorism are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Perhaps you're right and the whole thing was 100% due to religion or politics, and the target was purely one of opportunity. But the choice of targets could have been personal in that he had known the people he was going after for years, which does not strike me as insignificant

I'm not pretending to understand the motive, nor am I promoting any kind of politics.

 Frazzled wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Sounds like they had the gear but no training. It's not like you can just jog on down to the range with your AK and squeeze off a few mags. From what I've read firing an automatic weapon is loads harder to control than just firing a rifle or handgun.

I had not heard they had automatic weapons. I heard they were all semi-auto. You have a credible source for full auto?

Reports so far have been AR 15 style.
Where did they get them? Cali is extremely tough on "assault weapons" they still have limitations on them.

Across the state boarder, probably. Limitations on guns are extremely hard to effectively police from state to state. Most state bans or limitations on guns are basically feel-good measures, that can't have an effect.

 Da Boss wrote:
Agreed, and also agreed in the case of the probable Christian terrorist who carried out the shooting in the planned parenthood clinic.

Believe there was a clinic in the same building. Was mention yesterday.

 Frazzled wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Sounds like they had the gear but no training. It's not like you can just jog on down to the range with your AK and squeeze off a few mags. From what I've read firing an automatic weapon is loads harder to control than just firing a rifle or handgun.

I had not heard they had automatic weapons. I heard they were all semi-auto. You have a credible source for full auto?

Reports so far have been AR 15 style.
Where did they get them? Cali is extremely tough on "assault weapons" they still have limitations on them.

Were they all Cali residents? They could have gone through the extra hassle to buy them in Cali since it seems like they'd have no trouble passing a NICS check. The biggest obstacle in Cali is buying a California compliant gun and then buying parts/accesories to change it back to its intended configuration (illegal in Cali of course but clearly that wouldn't have stopped these people). If any of them still had ID from living somewhere else they could have bought them out of state. For example anyone who lives in a state neighboring Nevada can buy a long gun there but California is an exception to that law so it wouldn't apply in this case if all 3 had Cali IDs.

 CptJake wrote:


And I'll also add in. show one this violent (or even close) that did not end in a perp suicide on site.

suicide by cop is a thing as well. 2 of them are dead.

I suspect that now the two principal actors are dead, we will never know for sure the reason for the attack.

The involvement of the wife and the other guy rules out any purely personal motive. The use of AK47s and military style clothing argues for preparation.

I think there has to be some kind of radical motive involved. He picked the county health department to attack because he knew they would be all collected together in one place, possibly drunk (Christmas party) and he may have held some long term grudges against some of them.