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As a disclaimer, I play in areas where the ITC ruling regarding the CFP ruling has taken effect. I also play Eldar, so YMMV regarding my advice.

I have lost all of my games so far against the new Tau. I'm not saying that they're overpowered or unbeatable, but they are an army that I really struggle to effectively counter on the tabletop. I want to improve my own strategies on the table to best counter what new Tau can bring.

One of the problems that I face is that I play an infantry-heavy army that is heavily reliant on cover saves. It used to be that the way you dealt with this versus Tau was simple: kill the Markerlights, and most of their cover-ignoring weaponry goes away (damn SMS!). Now, the Infiltration Cadre grants this as a formation bonus, and the Hunter Contingent allows for Tau to somewhat mitigate their reliance on Markerlights to boost their BS. Transports are also not a solution as the Infiltration Cadre will wipe them out. Unless you have full null-deployment, you will be wiped out by the brutal alpha strike that three or even six Riptides can provide, and even then that's not a guarantee due to Tau's easy access to Interceptor. In short, in a game dominated by shooting, Tau are now the best shooting army in the game. Yeah, I'm saying it: Tau have better shooting than Eldar. And if my Eldar struggle against Tau, I hate to imagine how my future Dark Eldar army will fair.

However, I do feel that there are areas where the new Tau are vulnerable, specifically in Melee, Mobility, and Psychic ability. Melee is a classic weakness of Tau, specifically their low initiative and WS. Get into combat, and you can either lock down their shooting or wipe them out entirely. While Tau do have Supporting Fire, this just puts more onus onto ways of negating their overwatch, performing flanking assaults onto units caught out of position, and multi-charging units in range to offset the damage of Tau overwatch. Mobility is key in 7th edition, and this is another area where Tau have weaknesses. While Tau can move in the Assault Phase, Jet Pack units are not the fastest units in the game. Bikes, Fast Skimmers,and plenty of Eldar units are faster on average than even the most mobile of Tau units. While Tau can easily Deep-Strike, so can many other units in other armies, and they can control the board to a much greater extent than Tau with their Deep-Strike deployment. Finally, Tau have no psychic ability of any kind, which translates to extremely poor psychic defences. Psychic Shriek is as effective as ever, especially against the Ghostkeel/Infiltration Cadre and Riptide Wing. Invisibility is also very effective, even in the ITC, in keeping important units alive.

While my tournament army list lacks in melee ability, it has plenty of mobility already, and I'm trying to improve its psychic ability. I've modified it to include the Seer Council formation; in keeping with my anti-meta approach, I'm keeping the council on Foot, with one Farseer going for Runes of Fate while the other is dedicated to Telepathy.

Is anyone else having trouble with new Tau? What strategies do you recommend when going against what the new Tau can bring to the table?

I get the feeling that you're playing a fluffy fun list and this Tau player is playing a WAAC list (3-6 riptides, jaysus). Would you mind posting both of your general lists?

Keep in mind, the formation with Ghostkeels is called the Optimized Stealth Cadre. Infiltration Cadre is completely different.
But why a foot council? You just mentioned that Eldar have the best mobility in the game and weak to melee, so why gimp your best melee unit? The best strategy against Tau is to bum rush them as quickly as possible. Not everything will make it, but you just need to catch a few units in combat so they don't shoot and ideally run away.

I just played against the infiltration cadre and my entire first turn was basically sorting that Ghostkeel. If he's gone basically all the formation bonuses are gone. Were I playing Eldar, he'd eat 2D6*however many serpents I had serpent shield shots turn 1.

Cannuck wrote:I get the feeling that you're playing a fluffy fun list and this Tau player is playing a WAAC list (3-6 riptides, jaysus). Would you mind posting both of your general lists?

No problem. My list was my friendly Eldar army, composed of a Warhost with a Guardian Battlehost, an Aspect Host wiht Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, and Warp Spiders, and a Night Spinner. My opponent brought a Hunter Contingent composed of Hunter Cadre, Optimized Stealth Cadre, and Armoured Interdiction Cadre. My tournament list can be found here.

I suppose my first mistake was bringing my friendly list against Tau. Tau are officially one of the two factions (Eldar are the other) where bringing tournament-level lists is mandatory for the other player.

DirtyDeeds wrote:Keep in mind, the formation with Ghostkeels is called the Optimized Stealth Cadre. Infiltration Cadre is completely different.
But why a foot council? You just mentioned that Eldar have the best mobility in the game and weak to melee, so why gimp your best melee unit? The best strategy against Tau is to bum rush them as quickly as possible. Not everything will make it, but you just need to catch a few units in combat so they don't shoot and ideally run away.

Functional immunity to Grav weapons is rather appealing with a Footseer council, but I can see your point about it being weak in mobility. Unfortunately, I can't incorporate a Seer Council into my tournament list because of the ITC's three detachment limit. I already have CAD + dual Aspect Hosts, so any more formations or detachments would need me to completely retool my list.

I don't think melee with Eldar infantry is a good idea against Tau, what with their combined overwatch and ability to ignore the cover that keeps my infantry alive. However, I do think that I could be more aggressive with my deployment, especially with getting my transports in my opponent's face earlier so they can discharge their cargo. Ghostkeels are surprisingly vulnerable to meltaguns.

I think you can still take the essence of the seer council without the formation.

If you cant beat nerfed tau with eldar, I dont know what to tell you. Mabye more basic practice with your army. You may not be used to all their special rules. Try a few more games against regular opponents. Also try unconventional units mixed in to really learn the ins and outs of your army. It takes years at this game to really get good.

DirtyDeeds wrote:I think you can still take the essence of the seer council without the formation.

You can take a Warlock Conclave as an HQ choice, but you don't get the dual Farseers, and I already have an Autarch in my second HQ slot.

One think that will be really important is getting the first turn. If I can alpha-strike Tau with my Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, as well as psychic posers, it should really put the hurt on any infiltrators. I could also be more aggressive with my guardians, moving up close to force saving throws.

Orock wrote:If you cant beat nerfed tau with eldar, I dont know what to tell you. Mabye more basic practice with your army. You may not be used to all their special rules. Try a few more games against regular opponents. Also try unconventional units mixed in to really learn the ins and outs of your army. It takes years at this game to really get good.

I see that somebody's still bitter. Also, patronizing me will not get you anywhere.

Did you look at the link I posted to my army list? It's practically nothing but unconventional units for a tournament Eldar army. Trust me, I know how to play Eldar; I just need to adjust my tactics vs. Tau. My list is already designed to play in my opponent's backfield,so I should have the mobility advantage. I just need to be able to either get that first tun, or weather the storm of the initial Tau shooting. Deploying in a corner and then spreading out is probably my best approach if I'm going second.

 Orock wrote:
If you cant beat nerfed tau with eldar, I dont know what to tell you. Mabye more basic practice with your army. You may not be used to all their special rules. Try a few more games against regular opponents. Also try unconventional units mixed in to really learn the ins and outs of your army. It takes years at this game to really get good.

Salty are we? And here I didn't know we were making margiritas!

Honestly it's as people said. Tie up the tau (easy to do) and the rest falls in place. People are to caught up in getting scared of these weak fish and attempting to out shoot them. If what one does best is shooting, then do what they do worst. Psychic and melee. Grey Knights, eldar, daemons are what tau players cry about when they see. Soak in their tears, bring destruction to their models. You're ready.

I say ditch everything and bring as much Wraithknights as you can afford!

Disclaimer: This is in total jest, I cannot be held responsible for how well or badly you lose by trying this, or for any bodily harm you will incur for bringing more than 1 wraithknight to a game. I am also not responsible for any Pitchfork and Torches-related incidents.

Im not the one starting threads saying I cant beat tau. The fact is tau were nerfed on popular vote. And you claim in their current state, you still cannot beat them. Since further nerfs are unlikely you must change tactics or practice more.

Eldar have all the tools necessary to beat tau. If you are asking for advice on how to beat them without changing your list, that may not be possible. Very few TAC lists succeed today, in fact the only one I can think of thats dominant besides Gladius strike force in objective based games is skitarii in all drop pods.

Someone suggested psychic powers. Its a decent take and most units fold to simple psychic shriek. Works on riptides, ghostkeels and even stormsurges fantastically. Scatbikes in units of 3 are killy, but too small to waste markerlights on for only 3 guys, so often get to keep their cover saves.

Really against eldar the toughest time I have had was min scatbike units, and lots of guardians in wave serpents. The guardians weapons threaten all tau units except tanks nobody takes anymore. And if you put them in the formation they get BS5 they are deadly.

The advice used to be kill the markerlights and their firepower will falter. Thats not so true now with markerdrones and even good formations with pathfinders, you are likely to see 5+ sources for them. My advice is take out the broadsides first. They are the easiest large sorce of firepower to deal with. Then suits if you can. Then worry about the big things.

One thing that I have considered changing in my list is swapping out the Warlocks in the Guardian Squads for a pair of Vypers with Shuriken Cannons. Scatter Lasers, and Holo-Fields. I rarely end up casting more than a couple powers a turn, and even less frequently the Warlock Powers. It will give my army a source of S6 firepower other than the Wave Serpents on a mobile platform that's fast enough to take objectives and cheap enough so that firepower is likely to not get focused on them. If need be, they can be held in reserves until the right tie, or replace the Wave Serpents when starting on the board. Holo-Fields are golden, especially against Tau; that 5++ save against ignores cover is great.

I disagree with above statements. I most definitely don't think tau have been nerfed. My best friend plays tau. Has around 7000 points of it. He also agrees that the new codex has made them more resilient. The issue with them previously was their reliance on the buffmander and the pathfinders. This is no longer present and there's a lot more access to marker lights and much easier ways of improving ballistic skill.

That being said, I don't think they're unbeatable. I run three armies, eldar, imperial Knights with grey knight allies and khorne daemonkin. The only one I really struggle with is my daemonkin. IF I can tie units up in combat quickly then I have a chance with them. But it's hard to get there. The imperial knight list does quite well, I only have 3 in a baronial court with some grey knight terminators and coteaz. Depending on deployment I can cover my rear armour with coteaz and terminators or perform a surgical deep strike to give him something to panic about as the Knights move up.

As for the army in question, the eldar, these I have the least issue with. After reading your posts, I believe the issue is your list more than the tau's power. The friendly list you have taken sounds very....friendly. The ITC list sounds like it would stand a much much larger chance. It seems to be full of pretty good units. Though I'm not massively sure what the Fraser and warlocks are offering you in that list? Having said that the autarch doesn't seem to be offering much. Reserves manipulation for a crimson hunter and some Hawks seems meh. I'd rather go all out a ditch the psykers, gives you almost enough points for a wraithknight should you wish. Alternatively, ditch the autarch for another farseer.

The list I run is completely different however. I have a double CAD with shuri bikes, scat bikes, jetseers scythe guard, dual wraithknights and a hunter. I also throw in a wraith Lord and other bits. And he really really struggles to beat me. I know this isn't much help, and you don't want to change your list that much. All I'm trying to say is Tau are top tier in my eyes. So you need top tier armies to take them on.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
All I'm trying to say is Tau are top tier in my eyes. So you need top tier armies to take them on.

Exactly what I wanted to say!

TheNewBlood, if you want to be able to beat Tau, you have to take all cheesy cheese your codex have and bring all and every cheesy allies you can. Swarms of scatter-bikes (6 units of 3 will be just fine), Wraithguard-drop (DE Archont will help you to do this), multiple units of warp-spiders, at least one WraithKnight, etc. Without any average units (such as Guardians and Rangers) and without any unnecessary upgrades (powerblades for WS Exarch for example). And only then you will have a hope to win this little blue-skinned cheating fishes.

All you need to do to beat Tau is remove their Markerlights. That's been the thing since they first came out, and it's still the thing in 7th. Sure, they can build lists that don't need Markerlights to function, but that just makes them Guard equivalent with less tanks.

SJ

Formation heavy Tau can snake around the markerlight problem now but even then you still want to wipe out any markerlights they have. Bonus BS from formations lowers the requirement for Markerlights in that area, but gives us more Ignores Cover as a result.

Virtually every game i manage to keep my markerlights beyond turn 2 i end up winning because i can keep picking a unit per turn that WILL die. Once those markerlights die, its a lot harder for me to do that.
Top things off, Markerlight sources are the easiest to kill. Pathfinders are a damn joke, Marker Drones are a little more durable but still easily removed (T4 4+ save), Sunshark Bomber is a laughable Marker source, Tetras are only if you enable FW (and even then theyre AV10/10/10 skimmers, force'm to jink). The Skyray is the only durable Markerlight we got, but its ~130pts for TWO lights so...not gonna spam that easily lol

AstraVlad wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
All I'm trying to say is Tau are top tier in my eyes. So you need top tier armies to take them on.

Exactly what I wanted to say!

TheNewBlood, if you want to be able to beat Tau, you have to take all cheesy cheese your codex have and bring all and every cheesy allies you can. Swarms of scatter-bikes (6 units of 3 will be just fine), Wraithguard-drop (DE Archont will help you to do this), multiple units of warp-spiders, at least one WraithKnight, etc. Without any average units (such as Guardians and Rangers) and without any unnecessary upgrades (powerblades for WS Exarch for example). And only then you will have a hope to win this little blue-skinned cheating fishes.

Problem is, I don't want to be a cheesemonger, and I don't own enough bikes or Wraithknights. I still think I have models in my collection that I can use to adapt my list to better take on Tau while also not completely list-tailoring. Warp Spiders I already have and love; they're amazing if you Deep-Strike five-strong squads in your opponent's backfield.

jeffersonian000 wrote:All you need to do to beat Tau is remove their Markerlights. That's been the thing since they first came out, and it's still the thing in 7th. Sure, they can build lists that don't need Markerlights to function, but that just makes them Guard equivalent with less tanks.

SJ

Except new Tau aren't nearly as reliant on Markerlights as they once were, and don't need tanks. Their MCs are better in every conceivable way.

Vineheart01 wrote:Formation heavy Tau can snake around the markerlight problem now but even then you still want to wipe out any markerlights they have. Bonus BS from formations lowers the requirement for Markerlights in that area, but gives us more Ignores Cover as a result.

Virtually every game i manage to keep my markerlights beyond turn 2 i end up winning because i can keep picking a unit per turn that WILL die. Once those markerlights die, its a lot harder for me to do that.
Top things off, Markerlight sources are the easiest to kill. Pathfinders are a damn joke, Marker Drones are a little more durable but still easily removed (T4 4+ save), Sunshark Bomber is a laughable Marker source, Tetras are only if you enable FW (and even then theyre AV10/10/10 skimmers, force'm to jink). The Skyray is the only durable Markerlight we got, but its ~130pts for TWO lights so...not gonna spam that easily lol

Yeah, I have plenty of units that can take out Pathfinders, Tetras, and Skyrays; it's the Commander with dronws that usually gives me problems. Dark Rapers stand out with their blasts forcing lots of saves, and my amended list should have enough S6 firepower to do much the same.

Alright, in light of my games against Tau proving that my reliance on cover-camping infantry is a weakness, I have decided to update my tournament list. If the Tau player complains about me bringing a tournament list, I can point out that I haven't brought any Scatbikers, D-Weapons, or Wraithknights. Here is what my tournament list currently looks like:

CAD: 755 Points
HQ:
Farseer (Warlord) with Singing Spear and Spirit Stone of Anath'lan

Autarch with Power Sword, Fusion Pistol, Mandiblasters, and Swooping Hawk Wings

Troops:
Guardian Defenders with Starcannon

Rangers

Fast Attack:
Vyper with dual Shuriken Cannons and Holo-Fields

Crimson Hunter

Heavy Support:
2x War Walkers with dual Bright Lances

Aspect Host 1: 755 Points
10x Dire Avengers, Exarch with Power Sword and Shimmershield
Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Fields

5x Fire Dragons, Exarch with Firepike
Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Fields

5x Dark Reapers with Starshot Missiles, Exarch with Starshot Missiles.

Aspect Host 2: 336 points
5x Warp Spiders, Exarch with TL Death Spinner

5x Warp Spiders, Exarch with TL Death Spinner

6x Swooping Hawks, Exarch with Hawk's Talon

Total: 1846 points
I dropped the second Guardian squad and the Warlocks for the Vyper and the War Walkers. The War Walkers will give me more anti-MC and anti-Broadside firepower, and can outflank to surprise my opponent. The Vyper is a fast harassing unit, cheap enough to be expendable but also able to put out plenty of hurt against MCs with its dual cannons. I decided to keep the Ranger squad, as it's a cheap infiltrating unit to thwart any opposing infiltrators, and will let me deploy outside of the corner I choose to hold.

I definitely think this is an improvement over my previous list, but I'm wondering what other people think about what I have here.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

I definitely think this is an improvement over my previous list, but I'm wondering what other people think about what I have here.

That you have to have 2 Troops in CAD.

And this list is still too weak to fight Tau.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Problem is, I don't want to be a cheesemonger

So, don't play with Tau. They are cheaters able to twist or ignore every game rule we have to obey, so there is no way to win other than squeezing every bit of power from your codex.

As for me I never enjoy playing against them (if you ever played against 3 Riptides at 750 pts mini-tournament you will definitely understand why).

AstraVlad wrote:
So, don't play with Tau. They are cheaters able to twist or ignore every game rule we have to obey, so there is no way to win other than squeezing every bit of power from your codex.

As for me I never enjoy playing against them (if you ever played against 3 Riptides at 750 pts mini-tournament you will definitely understand why).

perhaps, try the different game types? rather than playing 'kill the other side', try removing that as a win condition and playing to the scenarios? are there any games that you try to avoid? Eternal War, Maelstrom, or the older games from things like the Battle Missions book (which while a bit outdated can still be entertaining).

then, play with more LoS blocking terrain? if you don't have enough cover consider getting a bunch of cardboard boxes and using them for buildings.

 carldooley wrote:

then, play with more LoS blocking terrain?

Just one word (well, technically two): SMS-spam.

And new Stormsurge if correctly understand what can be done with it's weapons and markerlights.

Tau can effectively ignore NightFighting, cover-saves, LOS, vehicles facing, can buy Interceptor and Skyfire at dirt-cheap prices, can make it's weapons D-stenghth by spending just a markerlight and have moving fortification which can glance LandRaider to death with reflected bolter shots (!). It is no fun playing against them.

AstraVlad wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

then, play with more LoS blocking terrain?

Just one word (well, technically two): SMS-spam.

And new Stormsurge if correctly understand what can be done with it's weapons and markerlights.

Tau can effectively ignore NightFighting, cover-saves, LOS, vehicles facing, can buy Interceptor and Skyfire at dirt-cheap prices, can make it's weapons D-stenghth by spending just a markerlight and have moving fortification which can glance LandRaider to death with reflected bolter shots (!). It is no fun playing against them.

Haha someone is a little whiner aren't they. Tau have had most of those things for ages and have always placed middle of the pack in tournaments.

Tidewall is not good at all for the cost
Velocity Trackers (skyfire) are 20 points a piece, which are not "dirt cheap"
They have 1 single weapon which ignore LoS and it is Str5 / AP5
One single model (SS) has one time use missiles which can be made D (plus you need multiple marker lights which increases its effective cost) and that model costs over 400 points properly equipped. In comparison, Wraithknights have 2 D shots per turn as many times as they want.

notredameguy10 wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

then, play with more LoS blocking terrain?

Just one word (well, technically two): SMS-spam.

And new Stormsurge if correctly understand what can be done with it's weapons and markerlights.

Tau can effectively ignore NightFighting, cover-saves, LOS, vehicles facing, can buy Interceptor and Skyfire at dirt-cheap prices, can make it's weapons D-stenghth by spending just a markerlight and have moving fortification which can glance LandRaider to death with reflected bolter shots (!). It is no fun playing against them.

Haha someone is a little whiner aren't they. Tau have had most of those things for ages and have always placed middle of the pack in tournaments.

Tidewall is not good at all for the cost
Velocity Trackers (skyfire) are 20 points a piece, which are not "dirt cheap"
They have 1 single weapon which ignore LoS and it is Str5 / AP5
One single model (SS) has one time use missiles which can be made D (plus you need multiple marker lights which increases its effective cost) and that model costs over 400 points properly equipped. In comparison, Wraithknights have 2 D shots per turn as many times as they want.

Actually, by comparison, we have the cheapest Skyfire available. 20 points to give a Riptide the choice to Skyfire or not is quite a bargain compared to some armies that need to take a dedicated anti air unit for the same effect.

Now back to the OP. Dude, people are giving you advice to make your list but you're rejecting every single piece because you don't want to bring the best your codex has to offer against the new meta. If you don't want to keep up then it's your fault if you fall behind and continue to fail against Tau.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Now back to the OP. Dude, people are giving you advice to make your list but you're rejecting every single piece because you don't want to bring the best your codex has to offer against the new meta. If you don't want to keep up then it's your fault if you fall behind and continue to fail against Tau.

Except I already have changed my list, based both on the advice that's been given to me and how I think I can improve the list overall to face Tau.

Yeah, I don't want to bring Scatbikers/D-Weapons/Wraithknights to a game, because that's no fun for my opponent, even if they are playing Tau. More importantly, I don't find that style of play fun or interesting for me to play. I like to think I'm playing Codex: Eldar, not Codex: Cheese.

Good guy eldar player.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Now back to the OP. Dude, people are giving you advice to make your list but you're rejecting every single piece because you don't want to bring the best your codex has to offer against the new meta. If you don't want to keep up then it's your fault if you fall behind and continue to fail against Tau.

Except I already have changed my list, based both on the advice that's been given to me and how I think I can improve the list overall to face Tau.

Yeah, I don't want to bring Scatbikers/D-Weapons/Wraithknights to a game, because that's no fun for my opponent, even if they are playing Tau. More importantly, I don't find that style of play fun or interesting for me to play. I like to think I'm playing Codex: Eldar, not Codex: Cheese.

Although I'd agree that for their points wraithknights fall well within the category of cheese, I'm not sure I agree the rest is. Slowly but surely we are seeing more and more D weapons available. There's quite a few now and I'm pretty sure that soon there will be an abundance. As for scatbikes I've never thought them cheese at all. But then I do run them against tau. So their 3+ armour and reliance on a buffed cover save doesn't tend to keep them alive and perhaps that's why I've formed that opinion. Against tau they tend to get hammered.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Haha someone is a little whiner aren't they. Tau have had most of those things for ages and have always placed middle of the pack in tournaments.

It is because at a tournament they face highly optimized lists and highly competitive players. And that is why I don't like to play against them: it is more of a work than a game. I've won as much games against Tau as I've lost, but I never had any fun doing this. Even Eldar are more fun to play against.

AstraVlad wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Problem is, I don't want to be a cheesemonger

So, don't play with Tau. They are cheaters able to twist or ignore every game rule we have to obey, so there is no way to win other than squeezing every bit of power from your codex.

As for me I never enjoy playing against them (if you ever played against 3 Riptides at 750 pts mini-tournament you will definitely understand why).

I think your problem is that your playing people who bring 3 riptides to a 750 point mini tournament. That said... if that's his list, there are many other ways to win, and there are many things that counter riptides.

AstraVlad wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Haha someone is a little whiner aren't they. Tau have had most of those things for ages and have always placed middle of the pack in tournaments.

It is because at a tournament they face highly optimized lists and highly competitive players. And that is why I don't like to play against them: it is more of a work than a game. I've won as much games against Tau as I've lost, but I never had any fun doing this. Even Eldar are more fun to play against.

I completely disagree. I have recently had the most fun games with the new Tau. And my opponents agree. We have been playing games for years together, and Tau finally aren't an uphill battle when something doesn't go your way. I have won and lost about the same number of games against, Necrons, Eldar, Marines, DE, Chaos, Daemons.... as I have before the new codex dropped.

If your opponents are good players then it doesn't matter what lists are on the table. Our group does not play ITC unless we are practicing for a tournament running it. We have found that although ITC does help in some areas, it really unbalances the game in other areas. For example invisibility. I would say that the nerf for that actually hurts itself with some of the new codex updates power levels.


I also want to share a separate point. I think the biggest problem people have is that most people try and make lists that counter the other player. Tau is exceptionally good at this (because it has an updated codex). Yes, we can spam all sms, or all riptides.. etc etc, but what happens when we face an opponent that is not designed for? we get annihilated. My local group stresses to our newer members that the game is a lot more fun when you don't play "rock, paper, scissors". Maybe this is something you should stress to your group members while playing friendly games.



OK more on point to the thread. I think your list is ok, Originally, I thought you were countering yourself, "eldar's strengths are this this and that... " yet you refuse to take them. Footslogging elder is extremely viable. and very fast in their warhost. Auto 6" runs means a guardian unit can move 12" and shoot a turn.. or move 6" shoot and run back into cover or out of LOS. I agree with what others have said. Your list does not need an autarch, you would be much better with playing to Eldar's strengths to some degree. Bring a FARSEER.. .they are I would argue the best HQ in the game for their cost. Decent offense, decent defense for what they are 4++ and the best non-named psychers in the game.

Concerning your second list.. I would personally take shurikan cannon bikes over warwalkers and vypers. av10 skimmers against tau is .. not a good idea. even our troops can Pen av10... (s5 guns base). Your better with toughness and armor saves. Shuricans are nasty against tau, and very effective against suits and MCs. You could take 2 or 3 squads of bikes if you drop the viper and warwalkers and probably do better IMO.

It is a bit underrated.. but I really like running the windrider host with base bikes. 2 shurikan launchers and 1 cannon. This most effectively works with the 1 turn shred ability, and saves you points to bring your Avenger shrines or other aspect hosts. Eldar are amazing in that you have so many options to run them and still be good. But they definitely require finesse.. you can take the top tier tourney list and lose every game if your not a smart player with it. and that goes with every army.

Cheers!

" As for scatbikes I've never thought them cheese at all."

Then you are insane or an Eldar homer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AstraVlad wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Haha someone is a little whiner aren't they. Tau have had most of those things for ages and have always placed middle of the pack in tournaments.

It is because at a tournament they face highly optimized lists and highly competitive players. And that is why I don't like to play against them: it is more of a work than a game. I've won as much games against Tau as I've lost, but I never had any fun doing this. Even Eldar are more fun to play against.

Nope.

AstraVlad wrote:
I've won as much games against Tau as I've lost, but I never had any fun doing this. Even Eldar are more fun to play against.

then where is the problem? you really should only expect to win 50% of the time anyways - otherwise people will likely stop playing you. Besides, if you aren't having fun playing the games, that isn't your opponent's fault - it is yours.

 carldooley wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:
I've won as much games against Tau as I've lost, but I never had any fun doing this. Even Eldar are more fun to play against.

then where is the problem? you really should only expect to win 50% of the time anyways - otherwise people will likely stop playing you. Besides, if you aren't having fun playing the games, that isn't your opponent's fault - it is yours.

So if your opponent is a waac douchemonger who does nothing but gloat and throw petty insults your way, gets angry when his dice rolls are bad or happy when yours are, then it's your own fault you're not having fun? Huh.. Never knew that. Thanks for the wise words ole smart one