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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:07:09
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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Violent criminals hid behind trusts and corporations? Seriously?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:09:38
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Fixture of Dakka
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Breotan wrote:Violent criminals hid behind trusts and corporations? Seriously?
I assume he's referring to NFA trusts.
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:09:49
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Breotan wrote:Violent criminals hid behind trusts and corporations? Seriously?
No, just the nonviolent ones.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/05 17:10:09
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:12:24
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/05 17:13:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:17:01
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Organized crime isn't a thing?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:26:00
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Fixture of Dakka
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Oh, now if we don't agree with him we don't love children or our country.
He talks about the importance of getting out to vote while ignoring the voting process on this BS executive order. He claims the majority of Americans want this while ignoring Congress, which the majority of Americans voted into power to speak for them in Washington.
Unbelievable.
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:27:44
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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I wonder if I should get an FFL. I don't know of any niche markets that aren't already being filled but I could own a FN-P90 at least.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:28:44
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Alex C wrote:Oh, now if we don't agree with him we don't love children or our country.
He talks about the importance of getting out to vote while ignoring the voting process on this BS executive order. He claims the majority of Americans want this while ignoring Congress, which the majority of Americans voted into power to speak for them in Washington.
Unbelievable.
Implying that the congressmen/women actually vote for what their constituents want
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:30:43
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The good news is that it sounds like there isn't actually a requirement for biometric safety mechanisms, just funding and programs for developing them. I imagine that "slippery slope" arguments will take care of that though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:34:42
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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d-usa wrote:The good news is that it sounds like there isn't actually a requirement for biometric safety mechanisms, just funding and programs for developing them. I imagine that "slippery slope" arguments will take care of that though.
And rightfully so. The Federal gov't has no business wasting tax payer money on the research or the required bureaucracy, and you can bet if they do so, it is not just to further the technology but because they intend for it to be used, or at lest use the existence of it as basis for further regulations. Obama does not do stuff without a reason, and I think his reasoning on this is deplorable.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:08:32
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Alex C wrote:Watching his speech now.
It's painful.
You can't just buy a gun on the internet with no background check
Can gun control supporters not just take the short amount of time required to actually learn how the process currently works?
No thats like effort and doesn't fit into their world view.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:39:25
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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CptJake wrote: d-usa wrote:The good news is that it sounds like there isn't actually a requirement for biometric safety mechanisms, just funding and programs for developing them. I imagine that "slippery slope" arguments will take care of that though.
And rightfully so. The Federal gov't has no business wasting tax payer money on the research or the required bureaucracy, and you can bet if they do so, it is not just to further the technology but because they intend for it to be used, or at lest use the existence of it as basis for further regulations. Obama does not do stuff without a reason, and I think his reasoning on this is deplorable.
I don't mind the idea of R&D into biometrics but we're a long way from reliable, working models. If a biometric isn't 100% reliable then you can be certain it will be rejected by the consumer. It isn't just about keeping non-authorized people from using your firearm, it's about you being able to use your firearm in an emergency without having the biometric blocking you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 17:45:55
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Considering it has military and law enforcement applications as well it would be a justified use of taxpayer money.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:06:31
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Alex C wrote:Watching his speech now.
It's painful.
You can't just buy a gun on the internet with no background check
Can gun control supporters not just take the short amount of time required to actually learn how the process currently works?
When the Director of the FBI didn't know that background checks are performed on internet gun sales when FFLs are involved.
d-usa wrote:Can we stop pretending that Craigslist, forums, and other means of communication on the internet don't exist and that people aren't using them?
So yes, you can just buy a gun on the Internet without a background check.
Now, will any rules stop people from just selling privately via those means and have any means of enforcement? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that we should pretend that it isn't happening.
So just like every other private sale between two parties not in the business of selling firearms. What makes arranging to meet online to sell a gun in person different to other private sales?
In your opinion when the POTUS talks at length about people buying guns off the internet without background checks is he exclusively talking about private sellers not engaged in the business of selling firearms who are already exempted from performing background checks?
Isn't there already a background check necessary to be added to an NFA Trust?
d-usa wrote:The good news is that it sounds like there isn't actually a requirement for biometric safety mechanisms, just funding and programs for developing them. I imagine that "slippery slope" arguments will take care of that though.
I'm sure it will be as successful as the programs we gave money for to research solar power
d-usa wrote:Considering it has military and law enforcement applications as well it would be a justified use of taxpayer money.
So the police can now start to shout "I AM THE LAW" with their biometric pistols?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ustrello wrote:Implying that the congressmen/women actually vote for what their constituents want
So if you do not believe that "congressmen/women actually vote for what their constituents want" then what is the solution? Do you feel that Executive Orders are "what their constituents want"?
And in other news the ATF just made it easier to obtain NFA items by removing the requirement that a CLEO sign off on it, and now NFA items may be inherited without the change in ownership being considered a transfer under the NFA laws
https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/01/05 18:21:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:22:25
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Fixture of Dakka
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Isn't there already a background check necessary to be added to an NFA Trust?
Yup.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: d-usa wrote:The good news is that it sounds like there isn't actually a requirement for biometric safety mechanisms, just funding and programs for developing them. I imagine that "slippery slope" arguments will take care of that though.
I'm sure it will be as successful as the programs we gave money for to research solar power
Apparently we can also expect to see guns featuring GPS locators and childproof triggers.
Yay science!
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:23:00
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Orlando
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Meh, this will stand until the first time it is challenged in court by someone penalized by it, no one can do anything about it until then. But time wise that will most likely be after Obama leaves office and the new Prez either ends it or keeps ii. Definitely made Hillary's campaign that much harder, not that most gun owners/buyers were going to vote her way anyway so I guess that's a benefit. Did you love the alligator tears.
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If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:23:40
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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wut? (warning, biased source/writer of couse, but... dang!!)
Yay! Obama’s Executive Orders Make It Easier To Get Machine Guns
Unable to ram his attacks on the Second Amendment through Congress, a bitter Barack Obama has been reduced to pushing his Executive Branch powers to the the breaking point with a series of “executive orders” that the White House finally outlined last night.
They range from open lies, to empty threats, to harassment, to a few things that might actually be very beneficial to some gun owners, to a Orwellian scheme that could get many law enforcement officers and military servicemen killed.
Let’s jump right into what these executive orders outline, and separate Obama’s bluster from reality by dissecting his so-called “fact sheet.”
Everybody’s a gun dealer… or you know, not
The President began his series of executive orders with what I’m interpreting as little more than “just words.”
Today, the Administration is announcing the following executive actions to ensure that all gun dealers are licensed and run background checks, and to strengthen the background check system itself:
Clarify that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks. Background checks have been shown to keep guns out of the wrong hands, but too many gun sales—particularly online and at gun shows—occur without basic background checks. Today, the Administration took action to ensure that anyone who is “engaged in the business” of selling firearms is licensed and conducts background checks on their customers. Consistent with court rulings on this issue, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified the following principles:
A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.
Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.
There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.
The law defining “engaged in the business” is very, very clear (PDF).
…a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be “engaged in the business” without taking title to the firearms that are sold. However, the term does not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms
Neither Obama nor his petty Attorney General can merely set aside the law on a whim, as much as it pains their totalitarian little hearts. Loretta Lynch’s assertion that she can charge someone for merely selling one or two firearms is a bald-faced lie.
Let’s talk about those machine guns!
When is a “loophole” not a loophole? When it’s just more cheap Obama theatrics.
Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation. The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. In fact, the number of these applications has increased significantly over the years—from fewer than 900 applications in the year 2000 to more than 90,000 applications in 2014. ATF is finalizing a rule that makes clear that people will no longer be able to avoid background checks by buying NFA guns and other items through a trust or corporation.
Obama wants to make everyone in so-called NFA trusts under-go finger-printing and background checks. This is an intentional annoyance to inconvenience law-abiding citizens who are already required to be law-abiding citizens in these trusts. This spiteful act has nothing whatsoever to do with stopping crimes committed with NFA firearms, as NFA weapons are simply not used in crimes. There have been precisely two instances of NFA registered firearms being used in criminal homicides in the past 82 years. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning while riding a unicycle and juggling cats than being killed with a legal machine gun.
But here’s what just happened that Obama won’t brag about to the media; the ATF just eliminated chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) sign off from the NFA process, making it easier to acquire silencers, machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and items classified as “any other weapon.” CLEO sign-off has been a major impediment in many states where owning NFA weapons is perfectly legal, but anti-gun sheriffs and police chiefs have been able to block their citizens from obtaining NFA items by simply refusing to sign-off on their acquiring items that they were otherwise qualified to own.
This arbitrary roadblock has now been eliminated. [whembly: !!! wut? WTF?! o.O]
While there is still much to be figured out in the days to come, it appears that Obama has eliminated most of the need for NFA trusts for most people, and it should actually be easier to acquire machine guns and silencers for more people across the country.
Thanks, Barack. you screwed up and did something right.
We’re going to have a talk, or something
Obama’s entire administration has been one of “just words.” His point about providing better information to the NICS background check is more of the same.
Ensure States are providing records to the background check system, and work cooperatively with jurisdictions to improve reporting. Congress has prohibited specific categories of people from buying guns—from convicted felons to users of illegal drugs to individuals convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence. In the wake of the shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007, Congress also created incentives for States to make as many relevant records as possible accessible to NICS. Over the past three years, States have increased the number of records they make accessible by nearly 70 percent. To further encourage this reporting, the Attorney General has written a letter to States highlighting the importance of receiving complete criminal history records and criminal dispositions, information on persons disqualified for mental health reasons, and qualifying crimes of domestic violence. The Administration will begin a new dialogue with States to ensure the background check system is as robust as possible, which is a public safety imperative.
Letters are nice, but funding is the problem. If Obama was serious about getting more information into NICS databases he would find a way to increase funding to the states so they can hire more people to upload the data.
Here’s an idea: maybe he could find the funding if he stopped importing and supporting thousands of unvetted foreign refugees containing dozens of hidden ISIS terrorists, or providing billions of dollars in aid to nations that hate us.
Crazy, right?
Holy crap! I’m the best gun salesman EVER
Barack Obama’s most stunning accomplishment as President is the number of guns he’s sold. At least one-third of all guns in the United States today were sold during the first seven years of the Obama Administration, and he’s not done yet.
To support the massive increase in gun sales and demand on the NICS background check database, he’s going to have to hire hundreds of more people to do background checks and keep the system running smoothly.
Make the background check system more efficient and effective. In 2015, NICS received more than 22.2 million background check requests, an average of more than 63,000 per day. By law, a gun dealer can complete a sale to a customer if the background check comes back clean or has taken more than three days to complete. But features of the current system, which was built in the 1990s, are outdated. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will take the following steps to ensure NICS operates more efficiently and effectively to keep guns out of the wrong hands:
FBI will hire more than 230 additional NICS examiners and other staff members to assist with processing mandatory background checks. This new hiring will begin immediately and increase the existing workforce by 50 percent. This will reduce the strain on the NICS system and improve its ability to identify dangerous people who are prohibited from buying a gun before the transfer of a firearm is completed.
FBI has partnered with the U.S. Digital Service (USDS) to modernize NICS. Although NICS has been routinely upgraded since its launch in 1998, the FBI is committed to making the system more efficient and effective, so that as many background checks as possible are fully processed within the three-day period before a dealer can legally sell a gun even if a background check is not complete. The improvements envisioned by FBI and USDS include processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to improve overall response time and improving notification of local authorities when certain prohibited persons unlawfully attempt to purchase a firearm.
This was another clear win for gun owners. Twice he’s done something right… but don’t expect it to last.
Now’s when I, Barack Obama, lie again. Big time.
The saddest part of Obama’s legacy is his penchant for security theater. He has no intention of making the United States safer, as that would reduce the need for more government, and more government is clearly his dream.
Here’s were he throws shade, asserting that he’s going to do something about gun crime, but what he’s actually doing is focusing on harassing law-abiding citizens.
Ensure smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws. In a call earlier today, the Attorney General discussed the importance of today’s announcements and directed the Nation’s 93 U.S. Attorneys across the country to continue to focus their resources—as they have for the past several years under the Department’s Smart on Crime initiative—on the most impactful cases, including those targeting violent offenders, illegal firearms traffickers, and dangerous individuals who bypass the background check system to acquire weapons illegally. During the call, the Attorney General also emphasized ongoing initiatives to assist communities in combating violent crime, including ATF’s efforts to target the “worst of the worst” gun crimes. These efforts will also complement the following actions announced today:
The President’s budget for FY2017 will include funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators who can help enforce our gun laws, including the measures announced today. Strategic and impactful enforcement will help take violent criminals off the street, deter other unlawful activity, and prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands
ATF is dedicating $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network (NIBIN). The NIBIN database includes ballistic evidence that can be used by analysts and investigators to link violent crimes across jurisdictions and to track down shooters who prey on our communities. In February 2016, ATF is standing up the National NIBIN Correlation and Training Center—which will ultimately provide NIBIN matching services at one national location, rather than requiring local police departments to do that work themselves. The Center will provide consistent and capable correlation services, making connections between ballistic crime scene evidence and crime guns locally, regionally, and nationally. These enhancements will support ATF’s crime gun intelligence and enforcement efforts, particularly in communities most affected by violent crime.
ATF has established an Internet Investigations Center (IIC) staffed with federal agents, legal counsel, and investigators to track illegal online firearms trafficking and to provide actionable intelligence to agents in the field. The IIC has already identified a number of significant traffickers operating over the Internet. This work has led to prosecutions against individuals or groups using the “dark net” to traffic guns to criminals or attempting to buy firearms illegally online.
These additional ATF investigators will be used to harass gun dealers, nitpicking at their record keeping. They will do little or nothing when it comes to going after criminals, unless setting up the mentally-challenged for criminal convictions is your idea of “law enforcement.”
If Obama was intent on putting bad guys in jail, would have instead directed monies towards prosecution in the Department of Justice. Instead, prosecutions have dropped substantially in Obama’s DOJ.
Barack Obama doesn’t want to stop real gun crime. He’s instead allowing violent criminals to go un-prosecuted, or get away with minimal sentences instead of putting them away.
The part where he’ll harass crime victims
Gun theft from dealers and distributors is a horrible thing, but it happens. Typically, it occurs when a criminal in a shipping company decides that he’s going to pick off an gun or two and see if anyone notices. As shipping companies typically have very good tracking systems, these guys are typically picked up pretty quickly… though getting the DOJ to actually prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law is another story entirely, as noted above.
Instead of going after the criminals, Obama’s going to do more to harass the victims.
Ensure that dealers notify law enforcement about the theft or loss of their guns. Under current law, federal firearms dealers and other licensees must report when a gun from their inventory has been lost or stolen. The regulations are ambiguous, however, about who has this responsibility when a gun is lost or stolen in transit. Many lost and stolen guns end up being used in crimes. Over the past five years, an average of 1,333 guns recovered in criminal investigations each year were traced back to a licensee that claimed it never received the gun even though it was never reported lost or stolen either. Today, ATF issued a final rule clarifying that the licensee shipping a gun is responsible for notifying law enforcement upon discovery that it was lost or stolen in transit.
Hey, her skirt was too short. She was asking for it. He didn’t tell us he was a victim fast enough, so let’s go after him instead of the gun thief.
Right?
The part where he feigns interest in protecting women
Issue a memo directing every U.S. Attorney’s Office to renew domestic violence outreach efforts. In the event of an emergency, victims of domestic violence should call 911 or otherwise contact state or local law enforcement officials, who have a broader range of options for responding to these crimes. To provide an additional resource for state, local, and tribal law enforcement and community groups focused on domestic violence, the Attorney General is issuing a memo directing U.S. Attorney’s Offices around the country to engage in renewed efforts to coordinate with these groups to help combat domestic violence and to prevent prohibited persons from obtaining firearms.
You know what consistently stops domestic abuse? A dense metal projectile moving through the cardiovascular or central nervous systems of the offender. As men are on average 15% heavier and stronger than women, a firearm is the best option they have in defending themselves, and many women have done just that. [whembly: ]
But Obama doesn’t really care about putting these dirtbags down with justifiable self-defense shootings or even warning them away, which is how most defensive gun uses play out. He’d rather have another few thousand defenseless women end up like Carol Bowne.
The part where the President talks about mental illness
There’s a mix of bad-to-awful in this section, and we’ll see how it all plays out.
Dedicate significant new resources to increase access to mental health care. Despite our recent significant gains, less than half of children and adults with diagnosable mental health problems receive the treatment they need. To address this, the Administration is proposing a new $500 million investment to help engage individuals with serious mental illness in care, improve access to care by increasing service capacity and the behavioral health workforce, and ensure that behavioral health care systems work for everyone. This effort would increase access to mental health services to protect the health of children and communities, prevent suicide, and promote mental health as a top priority.
Funding mental health initiatives is always a good thing. If this initiative actually provides care, then it will be worthwhile.
Unfortunately, there is every reason to suspect that under this Administration that the goal is to merely ensure that more people are labeled as mentally ill to deny them gun rights without getting them any actual help. This is incredibly cynical, and will not help save lives.
The part where he used the Social Security Administration as a weapon
Obama has been consistent in his attempts to use the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration to deny citizens their gun rights if they have been declared unable to take care of their affairs.
Include information from the Social Security Administration in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm. Current law prohibits individuals from buying a gun if, because of a mental health issue, they are either a danger to themselves or others or are unable to manage their own affairs. The Social Security Administration (SSA) has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to ensure that appropriate information in its records is reported to NICS. The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue, receive disability benefits, and are unable to manage those benefits because of their mental impairment, or who have been found by a state or federal court to be legally incompetent. The rulemaking will also provide a mechanism for people to seek relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm for reasons related to mental health.
If we were only talking about people with advanced dementia who were seeing ghosts and could be considered a legitimate threat to themselves or others, then that would potentially be a good move… but that’s not what this is.
Obama is casting his net as wide as possible to ensnare folks who have short-term memory loss issues, who are recovering from strokes, etc. If, for any reason, you cannot “manage your own affairs” on even a temporary basis, a faceless government bureaucrat can strip you of your constitutional rights under this despicable plot.
This isn’t just spiteful, it’s abusive.
Trust us, we’re from the government
The devil is going to be in the details on this one…
Remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information to the background check system. Although States generally report criminal history information to NICS, many continue to report little information about individuals who are prohibited by Federal law from possessing or receiving a gun for specific mental health reasons. Some State officials raised concerns about whether such reporting would be precluded by the Privacy Rule issued under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Today, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about these individuals.
Expect the Obama Administration to attempt to use temporary problems—people who enter into one-time treatment to deal with personal trauma or bereavement issues—to create lifetime bans on gun ownership.
Once again, evil.
And now, blather about the smart guns
Every totalitarian on Earth would love nothing more or less than the ability to render every gun in the nation inert with the press of a computer key, or disabling the guns of selected groups of foes at least. Tyrants could then easily disarm the citizenry, or an military or law enforcement unit that rose in opposition to them, with the flip of a switch.
Did I mention Obama wants to force that sort of technology on the military and federal law enforcement?
Here it is.
Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and Department of Homeland Security to take two important steps to promote smart gun technology.
Increase research and development efforts. The Presidential Memorandum directs the departments to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology that would reduce the frequency of accidental discharge or unauthorized use of firearms, and improve the tracing of lost or stolen guns. Within 90 days, these agencies must prepare a report outlining a research-and-development strategy designed to expedite the real-world deployment of such technology for use in practice.
Promote the use and acquisition of new technology. The Presidential Memorandum also directs the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety. In connection with these efforts, the departments will consult with other agencies that acquire firearms and take appropriate steps to consider whether including such technology in specifications for acquisition of firearms would be consistent with operational needs.
We’ve been looking at “smart gun” technologies for more than six decades.
In each and every instance, we circle back to the same inescapable reality that adding needless complexity to weapons will cause them to fail and cost the lives of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, along with police officers, sheriff’s deputies, and federal agents.
These technologies are incredibly fragile novelties, unfit for use in military, law enforcement, or civilians contexts outside of tinkering and amusement. We know this. We’ve known this.
Forcing the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and Department of Homeland Security to use and acquire these infant technologies will get good people killed.
But it makes tyrants happy.
In summary
Barack Obama has done nothing with his executive order that will have any impact on the single greatest cause of criminal homicides in this nation. The sad acceptance of a “thug culture” that revels in music, film, and a street life that glorifies the use and trafficking of illicit drugs, celebrates “getting by” instead of succeeding, cheapens work and family, and glorifies criminal violence as a way of life is the greatest determent to slashing the current record low per-capita murder rate to even lower levels.
Unfortunately, to target that would be to admit that welfare socialism, the linchpin that holds the progressive wing of the Democrat party together, is an utter failure. No progressive Democrat could ever admit that. They’d rather millions die first… and they have.
Hopefully, the Republican-controlled Congress will stop many of these harmful executive actions by simply refusing to fund the offending initiatives, and run out the clock on Obama’s lame duck Presidency.
Beyond that, it’s up to the American voters to decide whether they want to elect one of the several Republican candidates who have already said they will fight against more gun control, or if they will instead vote for one of three Democrats who have publicly pledged to gut the Second Amendment.
Ultimately, the choice is yours.
Besides the whole fearmongering bits, I think I just laughed out aloud in my office if that EO stands that we could purchase NFA items w/o signoffs from local po po.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:28:09
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: d-usa wrote:Smartphones somehow managed to avoid sky high prices despite the addition of biometric scanners.
Smartphones being an electronic device that already has a screen for where the finger may be placed to read, a battery, hardware, etc. all ready to go and it just needs the software? In other words radically different to how a firearm operates, especially when you then factor in the effects of recoil on an electronic system.
Then we have the problems of amalgamating the electronic components with the mechanical device
Given that there is little superfluous space in pistols where do you place the biometric device?

Do what the Texans do, MAKE IT BIGGER.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:40:28
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Ustrello wrote: Alex C wrote:Oh, now if we don't agree with him we don't love children or our country.
He talks about the importance of getting out to vote while ignoring the voting process on this BS executive order. He claims the majority of Americans want this while ignoring Congress, which the majority of Americans voted into power to speak for them in Washington.
Unbelievable.
Implying that the congressmen/women actually vote for what their constituents want
Also implying that there is not ridiculous amounts of gerrymandering going on, to the point where voting is effectively useless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:43:37
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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OK, here is the actual proposal:
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate ReleaseJanuary 04, 2016
FACT SHEET: New Executive Actions to Reduce Gun Violence and Make Our Communities Safer
Gun violence has taken a heartbreaking toll on too many communities across the country. Over the past decade in America, more than 100,000 people have been killed as a result of gun violence—and millions more have been the victim of assaults, robberies, and other crimes involving a gun. Many of these crimes were committed by people who never should have been able to purchase a gun in the first place. Over the same period, hundreds of thousands of other people in our communities committed suicide with a gun and nearly half a million people suffered other gun injuries. Hundreds of law enforcement officers have been shot to death protecting their communities. And too many children are killed or injured by firearms every year, often by accident. The vast majority of Americans—including the vast majority of gun owners—believe we must take sensible steps to address these horrible tragedies.
The President and Vice President are committed to using every tool at the Administration’s disposal to reduce gun violence. Some of the gaps in our country’s gun laws can only be fixed through legislation, which is why the President continues to call on Congress to pass the kind of commonsense gun safety reforms supported by a majority of the American people. And while Congress has repeatedly failed to take action and pass laws that would expand background checks and reduce gun violence, today, building on the significant steps that have already been taken over the past several years, the Administration is announcing a series of commonsense executive actions designed to:
1. Keep guns out of the wrong hands through background checks.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is making clear that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks.
ATF is finalizing a rule to require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust, corporation, or other legal entity.
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch has sent a letter to States highlighting the importance of receiving complete criminal history.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is overhauling the background check system to make it more effective and efficient. The envisioned improvements include processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and improving notification of local authorities when certain prohibited persons unlawfully attempt to buy a gun. The FBI will hire more than 230 additional examiners and other staff to help process these background checks.
2. Make our communities safer from gun violence.
The Attorney General convened a call with U.S. Attorneys around the country to direct federal prosecutors to continue to focus on smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws.
The President’s FY2017 budget will include funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators to help enforce our gun laws.
ATF has established an Internet Investigation Center to track illegal online firearms trafficking and is dedicating $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network.
ATF is finalizing a rule to ensure that dealers who ship firearms notify law enforcement if their guns are lost or stolen in transit.
The Attorney General issued a memo encouraging every U.S. Attorney’s Office to renew domestic violence outreach efforts.
3. Increase mental health treatment and reporting to the background check system.
The Administration is proposing a new $500 million investment to increase access to mental health care.
The Social Security Administration has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to include information in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons.
The Department of Health and Human Services is finalizing a rule to remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information about people prohibited from possessing a gun for specific mental health reasons.
4. Shape the future of gun safety technology.
The President has directed the Departments of Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology.
The President has also directed the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety.
Congress should support the President’s request for resources for 200 new ATF agents and investigators to help enforce our gun laws, as well as a new $500 million investment to address mental health issues.
Because we all must do our part to keep our communities safe, the Administration is also calling on States and local governments to do all they can to keep guns out of the wrong hands and reduce gun violence. It is also calling on private-sector leaders to follow the lead of other businesses that have taken voluntary steps to make it harder for dangerous individuals to get their hands on a gun. In the coming weeks, the Administration will engage with manufacturers, retailers, and other private-sector leaders to explore what more they can do.
New Actions by the Federal Government
Keeping Guns Out of the Wrong Hands Through Background Checks
The most important thing we can do to prevent gun violence is to make sure those who would commit violent acts cannot get a firearm in the first place. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which was created by Congress to prevent guns from being sold to prohibited individuals, is a critical tool in achieving that goal. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the background check system has prevented more than 2 million guns from getting into the wrong hands. We know that making the system more efficient, and ensuring that it has all appropriate records about prohibited purchasers, will help enhance public safety. Today, the Administration is announcing the following executive actions to ensure that all gun dealers are licensed and run background checks, and to strengthen the background check system itself:
Clarify that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks. Background checks have been shown to keep guns out of the wrong hands, but too many gun sales—particularly online and at gun shows—occur without basic background checks. Today, the Administration took action to ensure that anyone who is “engaged in the business” of selling firearms is licensed and conducts background checks on their customers. Consistent with court rulings on this issue, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified the following principles:
A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.
Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.
There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.
Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation. The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. In fact, the number of these applications has increased significantly over the years—from fewer than 900 applications in the year 2000 to more than 90,000 applications in 2014. ATF is finalizing a rule that makes clear that people will no longer be able to avoid background checks by buying NFA guns and other items through a trust or corporation.
Ensure States are providing records to the background check system, and work cooperatively with jurisdictions to improve reporting. Congress has prohibited specific categories of people from buying guns—from convicted felons to users of illegal drugs to individuals convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence. In the wake of the shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007, Congress also created incentives for States to make as many relevant records as possible accessible to NICS. Over the past three years, States have increased the number of records they make accessible by nearly 70 percent. To further encourage this reporting, the Attorney General has written a letter to States highlighting the importance of receiving complete criminal history records and criminal dispositions, information on persons disqualified for mental health reasons, and qualifying crimes of domestic violence. The Administration will begin a new dialogue with States to ensure the background check system is as robust as possible, which is a public safety imperative.
Make the background check system more efficient and effective. In 2015, NICS received more than 22.2 million background check requests, an average of more than 63,000 per day. By law, a gun dealer can complete a sale to a customer if the background check comes back clean or has taken more than three days to complete. But features of the current system, which was built in the 1990s, are outdated. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will take the following steps to ensure NICS operates more efficiently and effectively to keep guns out of the wrong hands:
FBI will hire more than 230 additional NICS examiners and other staff members to assist with processing mandatory background checks. This new hiring will begin immediately and increase the existing workforce by 50 percent. This will reduce the strain on the NICS system and improve its ability to identify dangerous people who are prohibited from buying a gun before the transfer of a firearm is completed.
FBI has partnered with the U.S. Digital Service (USDS) to modernize NICS. Although NICS has been routinely upgraded since its launch in 1998, the FBI is committed to making the system more efficient and effective, so that as many background checks as possible are fully processed within the three-day period before a dealer can legally sell a gun even if a background check is not complete. The improvements envisioned by FBI and USDS include processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to improve overall response time and improving notification of local authorities when certain prohibited persons unlawfully attempt to purchase a firearm.
Making Our Communities Safer from Gun Violence
In order to improve public safety, we need to do more to ensure smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws and make sure that criminals and other prohibited persons cannot get their hands on lost or stolen weapons. The Administration is therefore taking the following actions:
Ensure smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws. In a call earlier today, the Attorney General discussed the importance of today’s announcements and directed the Nation’s 93 U.S. Attorneys across the country to continue to focus their resources—as they have for the past several years under the Department’s Smart on Crime initiative—on the most impactful cases, including those targeting violent offenders, illegal firearms traffickers, and dangerous individuals who bypass the background check system to acquire weapons illegally. During the call, the Attorney General also emphasized ongoing initiatives to assist communities in combating violent crime, including ATF’s efforts to target the “worst of the worst” gun crimes. These efforts will also complement the following actions announced today:
The President’s budget for FY2017 will include funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators who can help enforce our gun laws, including the measures announced today. Strategic and impactful enforcement will help take violent criminals off the street, deter other unlawful activity, and prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands
ATF is dedicating $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network (NIBIN). The NIBIN database includes ballistic evidence that can be used by analysts and investigators to link violent crimes across jurisdictions and to track down shooters who prey on our communities. In February 2016, ATF is standing up the National NIBIN Correlation and Training Center—which will ultimately provide NIBIN matching services at one national location, rather than requiring local police departments to do that work themselves. The Center will provide consistent and capable correlation services, making connections between ballistic crime scene evidence and crime guns locally, regionally, and nationally. These enhancements will support ATF’s crime gun intelligence and enforcement efforts, particularly in communities most affected by violent crime.
ATF has established an Internet Investigations Center (IIC) staffed with federal agents, legal counsel, and investigators to track illegal online firearms trafficking and to provide actionable intelligence to agents in the field. The IIC has already identified a number of significant traffickers operating over the Internet. This work has led to prosecutions against individuals or groups using the “dark net” to traffic guns to criminals or attempting to buy firearms illegally online.
Ensure that dealers notify law enforcement about the theft or loss of their guns. Under current law, federal firearms dealers and other licensees must report when a gun from their inventory has been lost or stolen. The regulations are ambiguous, however, about who has this responsibility when a gun is lost or stolen in transit. Many lost and stolen guns end up being used in crimes. Over the past five years, an average of 1,333 guns recovered in criminal investigations each year were traced back to a licensee that claimed it never received the gun even though it was never reported lost or stolen either. Today, ATF issued a final rule clarifying that the licensee shipping a gun is responsible for notifying law enforcement upon discovery that it was lost or stolen in transit.
Issue a memo directing every U.S. Attorney’s Office to renew domestic violence outreach efforts. In the event of an emergency, victims of domestic violence should call 911 or otherwise contact state or local law enforcement officials, who have a broader range of options for responding to these crimes. To provide an additional resource for state, local, and tribal law enforcement and community groups focused on domestic violence, the Attorney General is issuing a memo directing U.S. Attorney’s Offices around the country to engage in renewed efforts to coordinate with these groups to help combat domestic violence and to prevent prohibited persons from obtaining firearms.
Increase Mental Health Treatment and Reporting to the Background Check System
The Administration is committed to improving care for Americans experiencing mental health issues. In the last seven years, our country has made extraordinary progress in expanding mental health coverage for millions of Americans. This includes the Affordable Care Act’s end to insurance company discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, required coverage of mental health and substance use disorder services in the individual and small group markets, and an expansion of mental health and substance use disorder parity policies, all of which are estimated to help more than 60 million Americans. About 13.5 million more Americans have gained Medicaid coverage since October 2013, significantly improving access to mental health care. And thanks to more than $100 million in funding from the Affordable Care Act, community health centers have expanded behavioral health services for nearly 900,000 people nationwide over the past two years. We must continue to remove the stigma around mental illness and its treatment—and make sure that these individuals and their families know they are not alone. While individuals with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators, incidents of violence continue to highlight a crisis in America’s mental health system. In addition to helping people get the treatment they need, we must make sure we keep guns out of the hands of those who are prohibited by law from having them. Today, the Administration is announcing the following steps to help achieve these goals:
Dedicate significant new resources to increase access to mental health care. Despite our recent significant gains, less than half of children and adults with diagnosable mental health problems receive the treatment they need. To address this, the Administration is proposing a new $500 million investment to help engage individuals with serious mental illness in care, improve access to care by increasing service capacity and the behavioral health workforce, and ensure that behavioral health care systems work for everyone. This effort would increase access to mental health services to protect the health of children and communities, prevent suicide, and promote mental health as a top priority.
Include information from the Social Security Administration in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm. Current law prohibits individuals from buying a gun if, because of a mental health issue, they are either a danger to themselves or others or are unable to manage their own affairs. The Social Security Administration (SSA) has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to ensure that appropriate information in its records is reported to NICS. The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue, receive disability benefits, and are unable to manage those benefits because of their mental impairment, or who have been found by a state or federal court to be legally incompetent. The rulemaking will also provide a mechanism for people to seek relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm for reasons related to mental health.
Remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information to the background check system. Although States generally report criminal history information to NICS, many continue to report little information about individuals who are prohibited by Federal law from possessing or receiving a gun for specific mental health reasons. Some State officials raised concerns about whether such reporting would be precluded by the Privacy Rule issued under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Today, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about these individuals.
Shaping the Future of Gun Safety Technology
Tens of thousands of people are injured or killed by firearms every year—in many cases by guns that were sold legally but then stolen, misused, or discharged accidentally. Developing and promoting technology that would help prevent these tragedies is an urgent priority. America has done this in many other areas—from making cars safer to improving the tablets and phones we use every day. We know that researchers and engineers are already exploring ideas for improving gun safety and the tracing of lost or stolen guns. Millions of dollars have already been invested to support research into concepts that range from fingerprint scanners to radio-frequency identification to microstamping technology.
As the single largest purchaser of firearms in the country, the Federal Government has a unique opportunity to advance this research and ensure that smart gun technology becomes a reality—and it is possible to do so in a way that makes the public safer and is consistent with the Second Amendment. Today, the President is taking action to further this work in the following way:
Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and Department of Homeland Security to take two important steps to promote smart gun technology.
Increase research and development efforts. The Presidential Memorandum directs the departments to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology that would reduce the frequency of accidental discharge or unauthorized use of firearms, and improve the tracing of lost or stolen guns. Within 90 days, these agencies must prepare a report outlining a research-and-development strategy designed to expedite the real-world deployment of such technology for use in practice.
Promote the use and acquisition of new technology. The Presidential Memorandum also directs the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety. In connection with these efforts, the departments will consult with other agencies that acquire firearms and take appropriate steps to consider whether including such technology in specifications for acquisition of firearms would be consistent with operational needs.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:51:45
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm vary wary of how vague the language is around determining who is "a dealer" and who isn't.
From everything I have read so far, it can be as little and 1 or 2 guns sold through 1 or 2 transactions.
How is the common gun owner supposed to know how to go about a gun sale with such vague language and thresholds?
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:54:37
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I'd definitely like to know more about that, but otherwise I am clearly optimistic. There are things in there that conservatives have been asking for forever.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:56:03
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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So DoD gets to waste precious resources researching 'gun safety' technology and will be put under pressure to include requirements for this tech into the requirements portion of the acquisition process.
The new Army handgun program just got a lot more expensive, will deliver later, and produce a worse weapon.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alex C wrote:I'm vary wary of how vague the language is around determining who is "a dealer" and who isn't.
From everything I have read so far, it can be as little and 1 or 2 guns sold through 1 or 2 transactions.
How is the common gun owner supposed to know how to go about a gun sale with such vague language and thresholds?
Currently the ATF defines dealer/engaged in the practice through published regulatory definitions, which I suspect will now be redefined to better conform with POTUS intent.
https://fnn.app.box.com/s/e5ibgdi1r50f7ofqg6u9tx3myoowd30b
Language, filter can't catch everything
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/05 23:19:58
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 18:58:53
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Yes, often people on the right are concerned with the military getting good value from tax dollars, I try to say with a straight face.
I don't see anything wrong with researching technology to try and prevent negligent discharges, if possible - presumably it will only prove possible on a single unified platform.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/05 19:00:10
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:03:18
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Wait, are people actually arguing that making a gun more expensive is an infringement upon our rights? By that logic, if you want to buy a gun, the government has to provide it to you because its to expensive for you to own. Yes, yu have the right to own a gun, but you dont HAVE to own a gun. I want a gun, but Im poor, so is my right being infringed on?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/05 19:03:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:13:26
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Alex C wrote:I'm vary wary of how vague the language is around determining who is "a dealer" and who isn't.
From everything I have read so far, it can be as little and 1 or 2 guns sold through 1 or 2 transactions.
How is the common gun owner supposed to know how to go about a gun sale with such vague language and thresholds?
Exactly. Please define how that survives constitutional challenge.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:18:48
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Ouze wrote:Yes, often people on the right are concerned with the military getting good value from tax dollars, I try to say with a straight face.
I don't see anything wrong with researching technology to try and prevent negligent discharges, if possible - presumably it will only prove possible on a single unified platform.
I'm about as conservative/right as anyone on Dakka, and I have ragged on DoD spending more than once. I know plenty of folks who feel the same. Don't confuse Big Defense Republicans with all folks on the right.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:22:00
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Fixture of Dakka
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So as far as I can tell the President is proposing that because a guy decides to give his son and daughter each their own .22 for Christmas, the ATF could define him as "a dealer" and throw fines and/or jail time at him.
How is this "common sense"?
Or does it only apply to SALE of a firearm, and gifting is exempt?
Hopefully further, more concrete definition is provided soon. Preferably from people more qualified to speak about it, and who have a greater understanding of it, than our President.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/05 19:24:11
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:22:21
Subject: President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Frazzled wrote:Government had no problem issuing technical mandates for technologies that don't exist. Its a good way to eliminate industries you don't like.
Green house gas standards, CAFE standards, coal pollution standards and mandated scrubber technology. Its all about regulating something right out of existence via bureaucracy.
It's also a good way to stimulate development in industries you do like, e.g. aviation, computing, nuclear.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 19:26:11
Subject: Re:President Obama outlines executive orders for gun control (text of proposal on pg5)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Alex C wrote:So as far as I can tell the President is proposing that because a guy decides to give his son and daughter each their own .22 for Christmas, the ATF could define him as "a dealer" and throw fines and/or jail time at him.
How is this "common sense"?
Or does it only apply to SALE of a firearm, and gifting is exempt?
Hopefully further, more concrete definition is provided soon. Preferably from people more qualified to speak about it, and who have a greater understanding of it, than our President.
Considering that the exact purpose of the order is to provide a concrete definition, from people more qualified to come up with it, that is probably very likely.
Complaining that "the order to come up with a new definition doesn't have the new definition already in it" just seem extra silly, even for OT standards.
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