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They need to get the pledge value up before they hold out their hands for more money.

It does sound like the first expansion would be a free stretch goal which would be an extra 4 characters, 2 walkers, map, mission book and cards which would go a long way to make the pledge level a little nicer butstill a bit short of good value. That is also dependent of them having all the items in the expansion as standard without having fake stretch goals.

ced1106 wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
@Black Nexus, $8 shipping isn't terrible, but the fact that they are not able to stick to their shipping estimates in their other campaigns has us concerned.

fwiw, USPS has increases mail rates *twice* in the last year, with couriers increasing accordingly. CMON doubled its shipping estimate to the west coast for the Zombicide: Black Plague Knight (highest) pledge level.

CMoN also delivered alot more than expected at the beginning of the campaign. Basically they blew up so much and there is so much content that the package is larger than they expected. Combine this with them shipping in 2 waves (a little tin foil hatish, but I believe they knew they were doing 2 waves from the get go, so they charged more in shipping to cover both waves), and that explains their higher shipping costs. Reasonable shipping is fine, but when packages start costing more to ship than the pledges, then the discounts have to become better, or the manufacturer needs to just pony up the cash and develop these on their own.

People don't want us to say that kickstarter is a preorder system, but when all the contents are made and it would hit the market anyway, then what would you really call it? Yes it gets the exposure out there and helps small companies to expand quicker without deficit financing, but in the end if they were going to manufacture a product either way it is preordering.

Edit: OH, $265K finally hit. I think someone says that brings us up to 31 models, plus the scenic elements (6 barricades, 10 loot counters) so 47 pieces for $125.....

Edit Again: I was just thinking, why would anyone buy the scenery add on fo $40, especially if they don't want the small mats. If anything buy a second pledge, you'll get the same loot counters, barricades (and they will come in wave 1 instead of wave 2), plus double the number of walkers and exclusives. Should be able to sell/trade off the exclusives later to make some cash back. Plus you'll get more maps (paper, but they really aren't usefull if your going to play bigger games anyway.

Aeneades wrote:
It does sound like the first expansion would be a free stretch goal which would be an extra 4 characters, 2 walkers, map, mission book and cards which would go a long way to make the pledge level a little nicer butstill a bit short of good value. That is also dependent of them having all the items in the expansion as standard without having fake stretch goals.

The problem with this is that there're only 12 walkers to the 9 characters in the main box. When in comic book do you see so few walkers? I know there's a few places but..... Atlanta, a city filled with zombies has an expansion that only adds 2 walkers but 4 characters......yeah, there is 1 more zombie than character.

I get that zombies are just drawn by noise but when they do come, there would need to be a lot of them, because that's how it works. This would force a choice on players to continue attacking each other, play the avoid and regroup game, or attack the zombies.

 agnosto wrote:
The problem with this is that there're only 12 walkers to the 9 characters in the main box. When in comic book do you see so few walkers? I know there's a few places but..... Atlanta, a city filled with zombies has an expansion that only adds 2 walkers but 4 characters......yeah, there is 1 more zombie than character.

Well there was that period of about 2 years in the comics where nobody got killed by a zombie - it was even addressed by Kirkman in the comments at the end of one issue with something along the lines of 'oh yeah, it has been quite some time!'

Yah, but this project is supposed to be pretty early in the story arc, where zombies are still a threat.

Mantic are having internet issues so update is delayed until they get back online.

 legoburner wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The problem with this is that there're only 12 walkers to the 9 characters in the main box. When in comic book do you see so few walkers? I know there's a few places but..... Atlanta, a city filled with zombies has an expansion that only adds 2 walkers but 4 characters......yeah, there is 1 more zombie than character.

Well there was that period of about 2 years in the comics where nobody got killed by a zombie - it was even addressed by Kirkman in the comments at the end of one issue with something along the lines of 'oh yeah, it has been quite some time!'

Spoiler:

The whole Alexandria arc had very few zombies actually killing people for a long time until all out war got fully underway.

Good point. I haven't reached that point in the comendiums yet. Considering the title of this Kickstarter and the like title in the comics, you'd think there would be more zombies...

Eh, whatever.

We will be up to 22 once the next stretch goal is unlocked which sounds like it will be enough for majority of games.

They are planning some different varieties of zombies later on in the campaign which will have different rules. The main ones they have mentioned are zombies in prison riot gear so much more resisitant to damage than your usual zombie. It was hoping the crawlers would be a sub category of zombie with their own rules but given they already added one to the Atlanta expansion it doesn't look likely.

playstest rules

https://www.manticdigital.com/product/the-walking-dead-all-out-war-playtest-rules/

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I used to be a huge supporter of Mantic. Now, I just feel so burned by them that I can't be charitable towards their ever-more-cynical Kickstarter machine.

Sadly... you've voiced my thoughts exactly.

2 more stretch goals unveiled that help beef up the value of the pledge:

Who wants to play a game where most of the characters you are playing look like helpless people in the process of dying? And you also get to try to murder children, so there's that.

On a positive note, it's good that their indicating during which Wave of shipping things will arrive.

On the negative, what happens when the inevitable delay arises and something gets bumped to Wave 2 that was originally slated for 1? Do you have to pay or do they pony up?

Why are people clammering for so many zombies?
If there was a horde, the characters would just do a runner and leave the area asap.
If there's only a few zombies, then the characters take the risk to get the supplies and maybe have to fight a few zombies.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Who wants to play a game where most of the characters you are playing look like helpless people in the process of dying? And you also get to try to murder children, so there's that.

Only three (four if you count the little girl in the latest update) of the living people looks like they're in distress and one of them is armed with a knife.

That's hardly most characters looking helpless and in the process of dying

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Who wants to play a game where most of the characters you are playing look like helpless people in the process of dying? And you also get to try to murder children, so there's that.

Yeah, not crazy about Sophia and Carl being in a wargame. Yes, war is hell and all of that but that doesn't mean I want to pay money to, in essence, kill kids. Alternatively, I suppose that you could choose not to play with the kid models.

Still not up on how you can play with unarmed survivors. I generally like my fighters to look like they're at least able to fight.

According to the Kickstarter page, the core pledge (i.e. the $125 level) is always going to be a single package that is Wave 1. If something gets delayed in Wave 1, the entire thing would then be delayed. Wave 2 is only relevant if you purchase add-ons, and will contain all add-ons - if anything gets delayed, same deal.

I...actually quite like the idea of a skirmish game where you are motivated to take weaker members of a group so that they can power up other members when they die! Especially because the opponent knows this, so is unlikely to take a shot at the kid lest this power you up! But if you expose the kid too much, make them run for a key objective in open view...it might be worth them taking the risk.

Apparently yes, I'm in favour of 28mm children being murdered and eaten.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Why are people clammering for so many zombies?
If there was a horde, the characters would just do a runner and leave the area asap.
If there's only a few zombies, then the characters take the risk to get the supplies and maybe have to fight a few zombies.

Because they often have to fight in the comic in order to run off. I mean, if they're selling this to fans of the comics, there should at least be enough zombies to make them an issue rather than not.

Yeah, but the rules incentivize getting the kids killed as their death is a plus up for another character.

Big difference between treating them as a resource to protect and putting them into danger to get a bonus for another character once the kid gets capped.

 CptJake wrote:
Yeah, but the rules incentivize getting the kids killed as their death is a plus up for another character.

Big difference between treating them as a resource to protect and putting them into danger to get a bonus for another character once the kid gets capped.

Ew, didn't get that far. Yeah, no likey.

To clarify, I'm not saying that anyone else is a bad person for wanting to play a game where kids get killed. People like different things, of course. I just personally don't find that aspect very appealing. I also don't like the look of many of these miniatures in general, especially the ones that look completely useless and about to die. In general, though I was excited about this game when it was announced, pretty much every new piece of information I get makes it sound worse and worse to me.

Not sure what the problem with kids being part of a tabletop war game is as it's not real life....

'About to die' or unarmed and (in my opinion) useless pose for Liam, Donna, Lori, Amy, Carol, Sophia, and to a lesser extent (at least appearing to be in an attempt to defend himself as he dies) Jim.

So really you have 6-7 of the total characters so far in poses I don't think are very good for a skirmish game. I know others think they are fine, but that is a big portion of the available survivors.

We won't discuss how often my Martians have gleefully murdered the kids included with Mars Attacks.

Nobody took issue with granny in her wheelchair getting swallowed up by giant mutant spiders.

overtyrant wrote:
Not sure what the problem with kids being part of a tabletop war game is as it's not real life....

Absolutely nothing wrong, if you don't mind incentivizing players to get kids killed.

My reading of the comic (about half way through the 1st Compendium) is the characters treat the kids as something to be protected.

But hey, maybe as I read more I'll find they transition to purposely putting children into situations to get them killed. We'll see.

 agnosto wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Who wants to play a game where most of the characters you are playing look like helpless people in the process of dying? And you also get to try to murder children, so there's that.

Yeah, not crazy about Sophia and Carl being in a wargame. Yes, war is hell and all of that but that doesn't mean I want to pay money to, in essence, kill kids. Alternatively, I suppose that you could choose not to play with the kid models.

Still not up on how you can play with unarmed survivors. I generally like my fighters to look like they're at least able to fight.

You do understand you are playing a game, right?

But it's cool incentivizing players to kill women and men?

overtyrant wrote:
But it's cool incentivizing players to kill women and men?

Honestly? In a skirmish game it is cool to incentivize players to keep as many of their figures alive as possible.

But that may just be me.

When ever you are incentivized to get any members of your own team killed, especially the weakest/most vulnerable, there is a problem in my opinion.

And again, it seems contrary to the source material.

The Kids do end up in some very bad situations in the comics as time goes on and I think they do need to be represented in some way in the game because of this. Having kids in a war game is not to everyones taste but I think it would due to the source material it is essential in this instance.

I am not a fan of the screaming in terror figures though. I understand for Sophia as she is unlikely to be armed at this stage (and having her represented as a runner character fits that nicely) but the adults in scared poses isn't good. Carol I think is fine as she is as she does have a knife which would tie into her abilities early in the comic timeline.