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 CptJake wrote:
The impression I am getting from this thread is that pepper spray, mace, stun guns, what ever are considered weapons and are potentially used offensively and are therefore illegal for civilians to have/use even defensively.

They are illegal to have. They aren't illegal to use "defensively" (if you do happen to have one), so long as the amount of force is justified. That's why the girl was fined $75, for possessing the spray, and not charged with assault.

 Matthew wrote:
Might be sidetracking, but does anyone know what my rights are if a dog attacks me without provocation? I often go out running and I'd prefer to know what to do if I get attacked.

As far as I'm concerned, if a dog attacks you and its of a sufficient size and strength to cause you serious injury (A Pit-bull vs a Chihuahua) then you have every right to kill it. The general principle is the same as defending yourself against people I guess, any violence used in self defence must be proportionate. ("The Chihuahua bit me so I broke its neck, your Honor ). But theres obviously a lot more leeway for killing a dog.

And I say that as a dog owner and lover who had a dog for 10 years until a year ago.

Even a medium-sized dog can kill someone if it goes all out against an unprepared victim.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Even a medium-sized dog can kill someone if it goes all out against an unprepared victim.

Yes. It depends on the circumstances.

If my lap-dog sized King Charles spaniel attacked someone who was prone or sleeping, and he managed to get at their face or throat then sure, he'd probably be able to cause severe injury. Against a small child, of course. But against a grown adult, especially someone who saw him coming? Probably not. It'd have to be one hell of a freak accident.

He was never like that though. The only thing he ever truly attacked was my toes, postmen's fingers and the TV every time a black person was on.

Your dog sounds very...uh, 'old fashioned'?

I had a border collie who could absolutely wreck gak if she got the drop on you, and as a border collie she always got the drop. My lab was Schutzhund trained, but his heart was more into getting the treats than any other part of it. His favorite command was "such" (search). There is a huge difference between a dog who is attacking because maybe he's scared and reacting (or he was trained to grab a sleeve) and a dog who wants to kill.

I was attacked by a pitbull mix once and could have ended up seriously hurt. I got into a defensive position, which prevented a lot of damage, but hesitated to do more than kick back because I'm just so used to dogs who are only trying to jump up or scare me away. The pitbull tore up my knee a bit before his owner got him under control, but if the owner hadn't been there, he probably would have overwhelmed me even though I was already 'prepared'. From the way the trainers talk, if someone is attacked by a big dog and doesn't immediately seize the initiative and injure/strangle that dog, the person will lose.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Your dog sounds very...uh, 'old fashioned'?

We have a big 50" plasma, and he would sit on the sofa and watch TV with us sometimes. The only things that would spook him enough to lose his gak, leap off the sofa and charge at the TV barking at whatever was on screen...was animals and black people. Maybe he just didn't recognize black people as people.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
But against a grown adult, especially someone who saw him coming? Probably not. It'd have to be one hell of a freak accident.

It might not need to be that freaky, dog bites can lead to quite serious infections, so even a nip could put you in mortal danger.

My great aunt was always going on about a girl she knew as a child who died after a dog nipped her on the lip. It's probably a lot less likely with modern antibiotics, but it might still be a consideration when deciding whether or not to open fire on charging King Charles spaniel.

I was trying not to call him a racist, but now I gotta call him a racist.

Edit: Shadow Captain's dog, that is.

 Smacks wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
But against a grown adult, especially someone who saw him coming? Probably not. It'd have to be one hell of a freak accident.

It might not need to be that freaky, dog bites can lead to quite serious infections, so even a nip could put you in mortal danger.

My great aunt was always going on about a girl she knew as a child who died after a dog nipped her on the lip. It's probably a lot less likely with modern antibiotics, but it might still be a consideration when deciding whether or not to open fire on charging King Charles spaniel.

Ah. I was talking more about being killed on the spot or shortly afterwards by a nasty bite and the subsequent blood loss, the immediate threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was trying not to call him a racist, but now I gotta call him a racist.

Edit: Shadow Captain's dog, that is.

Ironically, he was black and brown himself.

That is a really angry looking dog

Maybe he's like the stereotypical angry black man character and is trying to pre-emptively scare away any potential threats to his alpha status?

 easysauce wrote:

mace/pepper spray is illegal in canada too, but bear/dog spray is not despite being basically the same thing

Thats kinda funny. Since Dog and Bear spray is far far stronger than mace/pepper spray, same chemicals IIRC just orders of magnitude more powerful.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Wasps and some hornets often build nests under roof overhangs. You need a spray that can reach them.

Exactly. The shortest range wasp spray I sell at work is 21'. Longest is 27'. Also US wasps make UK wasps look like gnats.

Further, there is no law against carrying a putter or 3 Iron. Unless your country is so socialist it outlaws golf.

fethers.

 kronk wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Wasps and some hornets often build nests under roof overhangs. You need a spray that can reach them.

Exactly. The shortest range wasp spray I sell at work is 21'. Longest is 27'. Also US wasps make UK wasps look like gnats.

Further, there is no law against carrying a putter or 3 Iron. Unless your country is so socialist it outlaws golf.

fethers.

Isn't there still a law banning Scotsmen from carrying Bag Pipes, swords, or bows within the city limits or something?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Wasps and some hornets often build nests under roof overhangs. You need a spray that can reach them.

Exactly. The shortest range wasp spray I sell at work is 21'. Longest is 27'. Also US wasps make UK wasps look like gnats.

Further, there is no law against carrying a putter or 3 Iron. Unless your country is so socialist it outlaws golf.

fethers.

Isn't there still a law banning Scotsmen from carrying Bag Pipes, swords, or bows within the city limits or something?

Not as far as I'm aware. Living in Glasgow 6 months and can't spit without hitting a group of bagpipers playing on the street corners in their kilts. Swords and bows not sure but they're considered deadly weapons. I bought a sword from ComicCon in October and its illegal obviously.

Swords aren't illegal but you would need a good reason to carry one in the dead of night for defence purposes.

My old mans got a Spanish cavalry sabre and a WW1 bayonet for example. Old arms are common enough in old homes or families that have military connections (i.e. allot) but having one on the wall is one thing, convincing the police you stabbed an assailant on the way back from Cavalry practice is another.

 notprop wrote:
Swords aren't illegal but you would need a good reason to carry one in the dead of night for defence purposes.

My old mans got a Spanish cavalry sabre and a WW1 bayonet for example. Old arms are common enough in old homes or families that have military connections (i.e. allot) but having one on the wall is one thing, convincing the police you stabbed an assailant on the way back from Cavalry practice is another.

Aye, that's what I meant. Carrying it back to my room in the box is fine, having it strapped to my back and wearing my matching ninja costume is another.

Of course if you were wearing a ninja costume the likelyhood of anyone seeing you because of ninjayness would mean you are unlike to be attacked anyway.

Black pyjamas all round!

 notprop wrote:
Of course if you were wearing a ninja costume the likelyhood of anyone seeing you because of ninjayness would mean you are unlike to be attacked anyway.

Black pyjamas all round!

Pajamas? What barbarity. Mine are made from the softest silk spun by the spiders of byuvbevebvyu in the middle of nowhere, Japan, worn by the most ancient ninja masters.

You don't have silk pyjamas?

How uncivilised.....

 notprop wrote:
You don't have silk pyjamas?

How uncivilised.....

Well obviously but they aren't magic spider webs that stop bullets and let you parkour off skyscrapers. What did you take me for?